167 réponses à ce sujet

[Zem_]

iamthespark wrote...
The thing is that its the same interrupt.  Its always a Renegate interrupt at X scene and a Paragon at Y scene, so no matter how I play I always have the same interrupts at the same scenes.

That's not entirely true.  I know in the scene with Veetor (the Quarian in front of all the monitor on Horizon) the interrupt you get seems to depend on how you begin the dialogue.  If you start out being snippy you'll be given the option to shoot out his monitors to get his attention (renegade interrupt).  If you begin more diplomatically, you'll have a paragon interrupt where you disable his monitors with your omnitool.

But that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head.  It may be that most of them are a choice between paragon/nothing or renegade/nothing depending on the scene.  But that's still a choice.  You can choose NOT to push that mercenary through the window or shoot the other one before actually having evidence she was the killer you're looking for. etc.

It'd be nice if it was different.  Maybe if I wasn't that Renegade, I'd have a chance of the interrupt failing and causing a differnet (and more comedic) outcome.

Not a bad idea.  Although I'm still not a big fan of alignment tracking in games since it tends to marginalize anyone who isn't one-dimensionally good vs. evil (or paragon/renegade) i.e. Anyone who has an interesting character rather than a charicature.  I'd rather the outcomes were based on your class/skill choices if anything.

I actually enjoyed how DA2 captured the tone for the smaller comments, that makes playthroughs a little more fun and it suits the last 3-ish choices you may have made.

Agreed.  I got a real kick out of it when my Hawke started going on about the Wounded Coast, wondering aloud if that was anywhere near "Head Trauma Bay", etc.  I may not have pressed a button to make that happen, but it was totally in-character.

ME2 is a very popular game and DA2 has already grabbed the dialogue wheel from it and now we are considering interrupts? DA2 was already blasted with the line "Mass Dragion Effect" in gamer articles because it was getting similar to ME2.  Now its time for DA3 to think of something uniquely its own..   Its got to stand on its own legs and not keep borrowing its brother.   That's what I mean about "thinking outside the box". 

Nothing wrong with new ideas, but I don't want different just for the sake of different.  Much of what DAO did right was borrowed from successful RPGs of the past.  I'm a fan of re-using what works because that frees them to focus on what REALLY sank DA2: Lack of content and lack of interesting story.

[G00N3R7883]

Foolsfolly wrote...

They're not just 'and now we fight' buttons.

EDIT:

Interupts also stop characters from doing things. Like if Shepard sees a gunman pop up and aim at an innocent an icon flashes and the Player can push the person out of the gunman's sights. Or if a companion goes a little vengeful Shepard can grab their weapon and stop them from executing someone.

I agree, I think some of the best interrupts were at times when a companion was about to do something, and Shepard could choose to stop them, or allow their action to continue. I'm thinking about the loyalty missions for Mordin, Garrus and Miranda in particular. It allowed Shepard greater influence over his companions.

And as well my other favourites, mostly renegade interrupts, are actually "end the fight in one surprise move" buttons.

[John Epler]

To be clear - what I like about interrupts isn't necessarily the interrupt system as it exists. I like the opportunity to do something mid-conversation, cut someone off, that sort of thing. It's always seemed a little odd and strangely artificial to me (and this is true of videogames for quite some time) that you push a button to select a conversation option and then you sit and wait until you get your next opportunity to say something. As an independent actor within the world, why shouldn't I be allowed to do something mid-line? It feels as though I'm being placed in stasis until my next opportunity to interject.

So when I say 'I like interrupts and would like to investigate how to bring them into the DA franchise', I mean 'I like the idea of giving the player agency when they, traditionally, don't have it'. The ME interrupt system is simply the best method I've seen thus far - that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to look into how to bring in something fresh and new (and unique to the Dragon Age franchise).

And, perhaps to quell some fears - I'm not the person who'd be making this call one way or another So my preferences are merely those - preferences. They shouldn't be taken as any kind of proof that we're ever going to add this feature. Merely my own musings on the narrative side of things.

[JamesMoriarty123]

No offense, but I'd say that's about the LAST thing you guys need to be considering going forward.

How about making a solid, enjoyable, atmospheric game first? One that doesn't rely on 3 tilesets and 5 locations to carry it through a 30 hour fail-venture?

No doubt the many, many faults of DA2 have been reiterated over and over again so I'll stop there, suffice to say, get the core experience right first, eh? Before working on something as minor as an interrupt system.

[Huntress]

JohnEpler wrote...

To be clear - what I like about interrupts isn't necessarily the interrupt system as it exists. I like the opportunity to do something mid-conversation, cut someone off, that sort of thing. It's always seemed a little odd and strangely artificial to me (and this is true of videogames for quite some time) that you push a button to select a conversation option and then you sit and wait until you get your next opportunity to say something. As an independent actor within the world, why shouldn't I be allowed to do something mid-line? It feels as though I'm being placed in stasis until my next opportunity to interject.

So when I say 'I like interrupts and would like to investigate how to bring them into the DA franchise', I mean 'I like the idea of giving the player agency when they, traditionally, don't have it'. The ME interrupt system is simply the best method I've seen thus far - that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to look into how to bring in something fresh and new (and unique to the Dragon Age franchise).

And, perhaps to quell some fears - I'm not the person who'd be making this call one way or another So my preferences are merely those - preferences. They shouldn't be taken as any kind of proof that we're ever going to add this feature. Merely my own musings on the narrative side of things.

Ohhh I agree!! Flash back memory: meredith telling my hawk how *Spoiler*, hawk should have slap her right there, I would have in real life and I would have killed Aveline too but at the end she is a very nice character. lol!

[ladyofpayne]

I want to see rivalry\\friend system. NPC and PC become a real people.

[Ariella]

@JohnEpler

Just out of curiosity, if something like this was approved, which part of the team would implement it?

[PlumPaul93]

ladyofpayne wrote...

I want to see rivalryfriend system. NPC and PC become a real people.

lolwut

[Xewaka]

Ariella wrote...
@JohnEpler
Just out of curiosity, if something like this was approved, which part of the team would implement it?

Considering dialogues are treated as cinematics, I'd say cinematics team.

[Sylvius the Mad]

JohnEpler wrote...

To be clear - what I like about interrupts isn't necessarily the interrupt system as it exists. I like the opportunity to do something mid-conversation, cut someone off, that sort of thing. It's always seemed a little odd and strangely artificial to me (and this is true of videogames for quite some time) that you push a button to select a conversation option and then you sit and wait until you get your next opportunity to say something. As an independent actor within the world, why shouldn't I be allowed to do something mid-line? It feels as though I'm being placed in stasis until my next opportunity to interject.

And that makes perfect sense.  You should want more opportunities to act.

My concern with the interrupts is that they actualyl reduce the opportunities to act in a reasoned manner, because the interrupt response being available earlier usually prevents something similar from being available later, even if it would still work within the scene.  If I can kick some guy out a window now, why can't I still do that later once I've had some time to consider alternatives, especially since he's still standing there in front of the window.

Choosing options in CRPG dialogue is a process of selecting that option which best suits your character.  Because the interrupts were made available on their own, the player was forced to choose to perform some action (often without knowing what it was) in the absence of any knowledge of the alternatives.  A player may well not choose an interrupt in ME2 because he's not comfortable making that choice right then, only to have the optimal choice denied him in the subsequent dialgoue wheel event because he didn't gamble at the prior interrupt.

The ME2 interrupts served primarily to make it harder to roleplay a coherent character.  They're the paraphrase problem all over again, but now magnified and made both bigger and worse.

[Kyda]

The Dubious wrote...

It would be nice to say- for example slap Anders from behind as he sits on that crate just after- well after what he did towards the end, or maybe interrupt by murder-knifing some particular NPC (instead of Hawke automatically or not doing anything at all- even though he should *Petrice comes in mind*).

I wouldn't want the interrupts based of the ME2 system.

LOL totally agree with the Anders/Patrice interrupt. 

To be honest when I first heard that it
would be a voiced PC with a dialog wheel I was thrilled thinking that maybe we
could get interrupts as well because I thought they were a geniality. It really
gives you that feeling that you can actually do something instead of just
talking all the time. 

The suggestions I have read are really good, like
linking the interrupts with the 3 personality types but I also think that
everybody should have the choices since as a person we don’t usually react
always diplomatic, or sarcastic or rude. Those attitudes generally go linked to
the person you are talking to or to the situations that are happening. For
instance I played a sarcastic character but I was always nice and diplomatic
with my family members (except for Gamlen of course...). I understand that some
think that the fact that you can’t really know what it will happen is a bad
thing but if you think about it is just like the dialog wheel you expect
something linked to the attitude (diplomatic, sarcastic or rude).

[deuce985]

JohnEpler wrote...

Just to be clear - when I say 'I like interrupts', I don't mean 'I want to take what ME2 did with the interrupt system and put it in DA2 with few alterations'. We've had discussions before about what form this sort of thing might take in the Dragon Age franchise, though nothing concrete. If we did ever do it (and I'm certainly not saying we will or won't)? I'd definitely like to try something a little different.

I can only imagine the possibilities. Someone annoying me, time to pull the murder knife out and silence them mid-conversation. Oh, the possibilities!!!

[Kyda]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

I'd be a fan of seeing this make a transition into the new DA dialogue system, with some changes as noted. One way I think it could work would be to give the player some extra control of the dominant personality system. A complaint I have seen thrown around here and there is that some people were particularly upset with what their Hawke chose to say at a key moment, such as his or her speech before the final attack at the end of the game. The way an interupt system could help soften this would be to allow the player to choose, on the fly so to speak, how their Hawke will respond to such a situation and change the response to that of a different dominant personality should they feel it warrants Hawke being out of character.

Example: Their Hawke's dominant personality is Humourous, but for the big climactic final speech they want him/her to really put some fire into it/be firm with those he is addressing. Two 'interupts' appear similar to ME, one with the diplomatic symbol, the other with the agression symbol; they simply select the one they wish to 'interupt' their Hawke into giving the desired response.

Not quite the usual form of interupts sure, and I can totally see them coming into play in other ways. But I think something along those lines (combining those two evolutions of 'the wheel' in the process) has merit.

I like this system. Seems like a good way and it sort of answers what I´ve said about responding according to the situation and not to your personality

[Drachasor]

Kyda wrote...

The Dubious wrote...

It would be nice to say- for example slap Anders from behind as he sits on that crate just after- well after what he did towards the end, or maybe interrupt by murder-knifing some particular NPC (instead of Hawke automatically or not doing anything at all- even though he should *Petrice comes in mind*).

I wouldn't want the interrupts based of the ME2 system.

LOL totally agree with the Anders/Patrice interrupt. 

I'd like to do something to the Head Cleric.  You talk to her about what is going on and she goes "well, you overestimate my abilities...what do you expect me to do?"  How about your damn job since you have authority over these people?

Gah, the problems with DA2 have NOTHING to do with lack of interrupts and everything to do with lack of choices.  It is heavily deprotagonizing.  There are all these problems that are clear even in Act 1 that the game just doesn't let you do anything about.  Oh, unimportant NPCs you can kill just because you think they looked at you funny in many of the quests, but inexplicably if some other NPCs try to get you killed then you can't do anything!  Why?  Because they are protected by the Plot Gods.  It's really terrible.

[macrocarl]

Yep. Like it's been said over and over at BW, the more agency given to the player the better. If some version of DA appropriate types of interrupts can be implemented than sign me up! I get with the p/r set up in ME it works the way it does and I do understand that DA is so so much more about being gray, but if there was a solid decision that was equally as entertaining and bad ass as what ME is doing I think it would be a total hit!

[Sabriana]

All I can say is this: Please don't spill any more ME juice into my DA. Keep them separate, please. ME is what it is, a shooter with quite a lot of RPG mixed in (in ME 1, personally, I've never been interested in ME 2).

DA is a RPG with a bit of a shooter mixed in. Let's just keep it that way, can we? Let DA be its own branch. Let ME be its own branch.

[David Gaider]

John came into my office today and said, "I've decided we're going to do dialogue interrupts. Make it so!"

I cried a little, but really I had no choice.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 mai 2011 - 08:14 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

David Gaider wrote...

John came into my office today and said, "I've decided we're going to do dialogue interrupts. Make it so!"

I cried a little, but really I had no choice.

It's because I said they were bad, isn't it?

[Sabotin]

Paragon/renegade interrupts? I want sarcastic interrupts! The style Varric makes in the conversation between Quentin and DuPuis. Muahahaha.

In all seriousness though, I think there's lots of options for them in DAII at least. Quite a few times you're forced to wait during cutscenes while the bad guys are doing their things and Hawke's lazily scratching his... beard.

[Kyda]

David Gaider wrote...

John came into my office today and said, "I've decided we're going to do dialogue interrupts. Make it so!"

I cried a little, but really I had no choice.

Yay!... 

[_Aine_]

David Gaider wrote...

John came into my office today and said, "I've decided we're going to do dialogue interrupts. Make it so!"

I cried a little, but really I had no choice.

heh They really aren't all that bad, when done well...and they don't have to be ME2 style, or even to do specifically with dialogue choices.  Other games use them for that too, sure, but also for fun mini-games and just to give some extra inter-action.  

At the most simple, they are just diversions.  At their most unique, they take a cinematic cut scene and turn it from solely a visual experience, to an interactive one where the player feels they have a part in how it unfolds.  

But, to be fair, when they are done poorly they suck really, really badly.  

Modifié par shantisands, 20 mai 2011 - 09:01 .

[Sabriana]

John is my all time favorite. So is David. Stop pushing me in-between, will you?