654 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Just popped in to add this; missed it in the small print until now. From a recent article and interview with Gamasutra:

BioWare has made all kinds of games, but right now it's the fantasy and the sci-fi genres that you're very focused on. Do you consider moving beyond that and trying to get more people that might not be into sci-fi or fantasy settings, and try more real world-type settings? It seems like that would be an opportunity to deliver emotions.

GZ: Yeah. That's something we've absolutely debated over time. As we look forward, that's something we consider more and more. It's interesting, I think. Initially, I remember, the debates were kind of entertaining. I think our context initially was from a very traditional RPG perspective.

So, think of the discussion 10 years ago. Okay, [compare] Baldur's Gate to current day. ... You look to where both Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 2 and then 3 have evolved to, and it's very, very different.

You can imagine the cop drama set in the Mass Effect sort of framework. You can imagine a spy adventure in that context. I think actually that what's happened is our ability to conceive and understand different game contexts has evolved. Then that starts opening up new platforms into things that are maybe less traditional than we have historically [done].

We're not confirming anything today, but it's something we discuss a lot, because one of the things we want to do is really try and broaden our appeal, broaden our reach, sell more units, get more fans.

Modifié par Elhanan, 20 mai 2011 - 09:46 .

[Ariella]

[quote]Drasanil wrote...

[quote]Ariella wrote...

Would they have?[/quote]
 
Yes, and even if you're not 100% sure, the fact there's even a really case for it shows that Bioware did a poor job of implementing the whole "mostest important person in the world" or making Hawke relevant, seriously even the Dog (DLC Dog at that) has more meaningful interactions with your companions than you do.
[/quote]

Really, I had some pretty interesting and meaningful interactions with my companions, including Dog, so I got to wonder if we played the same game.

[quote]
[quote]We don't know what Anders would have done if he hadn't met Hawke.[/quote]
 
Same thing, or something very very similar, at that point Anders wasn't so much Anders any more but Justice acting out on his impulses. Hawke was never really a part of that equation, at best just an excuse and self-serving justification post-event for Anders.
[/quote]

But if Anders goes off early or dies because of some other factor because Hawke never brought him into her circle, the end never happens.
[quote]
[quote]We don't know if Bertrand and company would have survived the deep roads without Hawke or[/quote]

Honestly wouldn't even matter. What pushed things to the boiling point was the Annulement of the circle, a thing we've seen perfectly rational templars do in DAO. The "red thingy" was there to justify and a really really dumb boss fight and make it look like Hawke had an impact on events.
[/quote]

Without Meridith's climbing paranoia, there wouldn't have been a reciprical in Anders. The annullment of the circle hinges on Anders actions. if Anders isn't there or dead, he can't take those actions. We ndon't know who or what else might have influenced him if Hawke had never existed.

[quote]
[quote]if the Arishok might have defeated all comers[/quote]
 
That's just a case for Hawke being the only one dumb enough to fight him one on one, the Arishok would have been downed by numbers if not a single person.
[/quote]

First time I played. I didn't duel the Arishok I killed him with a squad.
[quote]

[quote]without Hawke there to keep two certain people from killing each other rather than the common enemy.[/quote]

They were squabbling about who should be "in charge" I think issues would have sorted themselves out with out much trouble given they already had a third party screaming for both their bloods. They could then go back to fighting each other. Also Orsino wasn't on the edge of rebelling at that point, what pushed him over was the annulement.
[/quote]

He wasn't? He was pissed as hell about how mages where treated, the Vicount even TELLS this to Hawke long before the Qunari issue came to a head. "Orisino nipping at my heels". It's right at the beginning of act two.

Would the issue have sorted itself out in time? We don't know that, considering that third party had a unfied command structure versus two groups that trusted each other as far as they could throw them, that were only working together because Hawke conned them into it.

[quote]
[quote]All we know is what happened with Hawke bringing all of these separate people together.[/quote]

Rather Hawke just happened to be around all these seperate people when they made important desicions, of which s/he had little to no say in.
[/quote]
[/quote]

People made decisions, so did Hawke. We don't know what would have happened had Hawke and her family never arrived in Kirkwall, and pretending we do is silly. It's like trying to figure out what would happen if Columbus never sailed to the New World. You want to try drawing up that alternate history?

[Ariella]

Elhanan wrote...

Just popped in to add this; missed it in the small print until now. From a recent article and interview with Gamasutra:

BioWare has made all kinds of games, but right now it's the fantasy and the sci-fi genres that you're very focused on. Do you consider moving beyond that and trying to get more people that might not be into sci-fi or fantasy settings, and try more real world-type settings? It seems like that would be an opportunity to deliver emotions.

GZ: Yeah. That's something we've absolutely debated over time. As we look forward, that's something we consider more and more. It's interesting, I think. Initially, I remember, the debates were kind of entertaining. I think our context initially was from a very traditional RPG perspective.

So, think of the discussion 10 years ago. Okay, [compare] Baldur's Gate to current day. ... You look to where both Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 2 and then 3 have evolved to, and it's very, very different.

You can imagine the cop drama set in the Mass Effect sort of framework. You can imagine a spy adventure in that context. I think actually that what's happened is our ability to conceive and understand different game contexts has evolved. Then that starts opening up new platforms into things that are maybe less traditional than we have historically [done].

We're not confirming anything today, but it's something we discuss a lot, because one of the things we want to do is really try and broaden our appeal, broaden our reach, sell more units, get more fans.

Cop drama in the ME universe wait, but wasn't that partially ME1? However, it'd be interesting to play a cop from Earth joining C-Sec. that would be a fun game.

[JamesMoriarty123]

This. I sided with the mages all game, what a joke. Doesn't matter.

[EugeneBi]

simfamSP wrote...

EugeneBi wrote...

kglaser wrote...

I learned my lesson with DA2.
I will absolutely not buy DA3 full-price. I will buy it used. I sorely overpaid for DA2.

+1

Look. I was pissed of when I bought Arma II and ended up hating it. But I do not go and blame the company for my own stupidity.

Yes, right, I was stupid to hastily preorder this game. I should not believe that BW is capable to finish a decent game that soon. It's a miscarriage, period.

Now I learned my lesson. But I want revenge - they cheatd me out of my money and I will get it back. I will play ME3 and DA3 a couple of years after their release - for much less money, with all bugs fixed, and all DLC included.

[Elhanan]

Ariella wrote...

... So, think of the discussion 10 years ago. Okay, [compare] Baldur's Gate to current day. ... You look to where both Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 2 and then 3 have evolved to, and it's very, very different.....

We're not confirming anything today, but it's something we discuss a lot, because one of the things we want to do is really try and broaden our appeal, broaden our reach, sell more units, get more fans.

Cop drama in the ME universe wait, but wasn't that partially ME1? However, it'd be interesting to play a cop from Earth joining C-Sec. that would be a fun game.

I was just observing the good Doctors mentioned ME3 before all this Tweety excitement; just did not confirm.

Modifié par Elhanan, 20 mai 2011 - 10:12 .

[TheChris92]

Mr.House wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

That was false advertising, I don't hold that against a character who had emotions. Shepard was like a drone in ME2, unless you had LotSB.

ME3 will fix that. Mark my word.

But will they sacerfice awesome lights for less droney?

Shepard's arguments against Mordin's usage of the Genophage were kinda shallow.

[DTKT]

Let's hope it's not rushed and they are taking into account the criticism and feedback with DAII.

[Luvinn]

After DA2, i will get DA3 only after it is confirmed that it is good (like origins?), or it's cheap.

ME3 is a must buy from day one though

[JamesMoriarty123]

I'm still gonna wait for the Metacritic/Friend/Critic reviews before I buy ME3.

I'm not buying into the pre-order bull**** either, that stuff has gone on for too long. It's always useless ****e that adds NOTHING to the experience anyway.
I'd sooner wait a few months, get the game on the cheap and buy the relevant DLC.

[Black-Xero]

DTKT wrote...

Let's hope it's not rushed and they are taking into account the criticism and feedback with DAII.

Most of the criticism and feedback.I wouldn't want them to change the enjoyable gameplay from DAII back to the boring gameplay from Origins.

[Ariella]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

This. I sided with the mages all game, what a joke. Doesn't matter.

It DOES matter, just after the fact and changes Thedas...

[Ariella]

Elhanan wrote...

Ariella wrote...

... So, think of the discussion 10 years ago. Okay, [compare] Baldur's Gate to current day. ... You look to where both Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 2 and then 3 have evolved to, and it's very, very different.....

We're not confirming anything today, but it's something we discuss a lot, because one of the things we want to do is really try and broaden our appeal, broaden our reach, sell more units, get more fans.

Cop drama in the ME universe wait, but wasn't that partially ME1? However, it'd be interesting to play a cop from Earth joining C-Sec. that would be a fun game.

I was just observing the good Doctors mentioned ME3 before all this Tweety excitement; just did not confirm.

I know, but after watching two seasons of Homicide: Life on the Streets, my imagination got all happy for a minute. I promise I realize that this is completely unconfirmed and will not ask for the messanger's head on his shield . Not that's I'd do that anyway, ruin the floors.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Ariella wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

This. I sided with the mages all game, what a joke. Doesn't matter.

It DOES matter, just after the fact and changes Thedas...

Your naivetè is astounding. See it for what it is, a cop out. A rushed game with a botched ending that takes all choice out of the hands of the player.

I say it doesn't matter because NOTHING you do will change the outcome, that is a result of the framed narrative which is a design choice, and as such part of the reason the game is OBJECTIVELY broken. However, even within the framed narrative there could have been scope for different endings based on the path you took through the game, instead of just rendering all your decisions redundant and having the same ending EVERY time.

[StuartMarshall]

Yeah, there will be no pre-order from me either this time, I felt badly burnt by DA2 and any DA3 purchase will depend entirely on user feedback, not paid off mainstream reviewers.

[Ariella]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Ariella wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

This. I sided with the mages all game, what a joke. Doesn't matter.

It DOES matter, just after the fact and changes Thedas...

Your naivetè is astounding. See it for what it is, a cop out. A rushed game with a botched ending that takes all choice out of the hands of the player.

I say it doesn't matter because NOTHING you do will change the outcome, that is a result of the framed narrative which is a design choice, and as such part of the reason the game is OBJECTIVELY broken. However, even within the framed narrative there could have been scope for different endings based on the path you took through the game, instead of just rendering all your decisions redundant and having the same ending EVERY time.

You going to sit and insult me, or are you going to back it up? Things do change within the framed narrative, if you pay attention. You don't like the game, why are you giving yourself a coranary sitting here telling everybody and tbheir mother how sucky it was in your opinion.

As for the two end bosses:

This isn't high fantasy, James. This is dark fantasy. Endings are sometimes gonna suck for you, people you expect to be grateful are going to betray you. While the narritve could have been tightened, that's not a major flaw, as I had the same problem with some of the narrative strands in DAO, which everyone holds so highly.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Ariella wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Ariella wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

This. I sided with the mages all game, what a joke. Doesn't matter.

It DOES matter, just after the fact and changes Thedas...

Your naivetè is astounding. See it for what it is, a cop out. A rushed game with a botched ending that takes all choice out of the hands of the player.

I say it doesn't matter because NOTHING you do will change the outcome, that is a result of the framed narrative which is a design choice, and as such part of the reason the game is OBJECTIVELY broken. However, even within the framed narrative there could have been scope for different endings based on the path you took through the game, instead of just rendering all your decisions redundant and having the same ending EVERY time.

You going to sit and insult me, or are you going to back it up? Things do change within the framed narrative, if you pay attention. You don't like the game, why are you giving yourself a coranary sitting here telling everybody and tbheir mother how sucky it was in your opinion.

As for the two end bosses:

This isn't high fantasy, James. This is dark fantasy. Endings are sometimes gonna suck for you, people you expect to be grateful are going to betray you. While the narritve could have been tightened, that's not a major flaw, as I had the same problem with some of the narrative strands in DAO, which everyone holds so highly.

Hardly an insult, lol. As for dark fantasy? Man, I've seen darker scenes in a crechè. The only truly engaging quest that subscribed to the "dark fantasy" was the Hawkes Mother quest, that one was decent.

And although the journey you take to the conclusion might be slightly different, as I said before, it's rendered redundant because the decisions have no lasting weight. I'm not bothered whether the ending was positive or negative for the characters involved, only about the decisions I made getting there to affect the outcome. Which in EVERY preview Bioware gave was a much touted feature of the game.

Also, as for why I'm debating with you, I could ask you the same thing...why are you trying your little heart out to convince everyone (and yourself it seems) that DA2 is worth a damn? DA2 doesn't need me to discredit it, it does a more than adequate job of that itself.

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 20 mai 2011 - 11:27 .

[erynnar]

broaden our reach, sell more units, get more fans...yeah didn't they do that making DA2 a kinetic, hyper, anime/hackn'slash/action/ with hardly any RPG and a disjointed story?

Great, more of the same mediocre game experience is what that says to me. A game made for people who hate RPG still, oh goody. So I am not holding out hope of taking the best of DAO and DA2 and making it better. *sigh*

[Jon Jern_]

A Call of Duty or Halo fan is never going to say "Whoa, Dragon Age 2! Exploding people! Big swords! This game is for me!"
Bioware, please stick with what you know.

[Rawgrim]

erynnar wrote...

broaden our reach, sell more units, get more fans...yeah didn't they do that making DA2 a kinetic, hyper, anime/hackn'slash/action/ with hardly any RPG and a disjointed story?

Great, more of the same mediocre game experience is what that says to me. A game made for people who hate RPG still, oh goody. So I am not holding out hope of taking the best of DAO and DA2 and making it better. *sigh*

You hit the nail on the head.

[Ariella]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Hardly an insult, lol. As for dark fantasy? Man, I've seen darker scenes in a crechè. The only truly engaging quest that subscribed to the "dark fantasy" was the Hawkes Mother quest, that one was decent.

You called me naive, and yet you talk and talk with no facts to back it up

And although the journey you take to the conclusion might be slightly different, as I said before, it's rendered redundant because the decisions have no lasting weight. I'm not bothered whether the ending was positive or negative for the characters involved, only about the decisions I made getting there to affect the outcome. Which in EVERY preview Bioware gave was a much touted feature of the game.

So changing the balance of power in the world is not enough for you... I'm just speechless at that one.

Also, as for why I'm debating with you, I could ask you the same thing...why are you trying your little heart out to convince everyone (and yourself it seems) that DA2 is worth a damn? DA2 doesn't need me to discredit it, it does a more than adequate job of that itself.

I'm not the one who's sitting on a DA2 board, and the developer's at that screaming how sucky it was and insulting the devs. You're going to give yourself high blood pressure that way.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Ariella wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Hardly an insult, lol. As for dark fantasy? Man, I've seen darker scenes in a crechè. The only truly engaging quest that subscribed to the "dark fantasy" was the Hawkes Mother quest, that one was decent.

You called me naive, and yet you talk and talk with no facts to back it up

And although the journey you take to the conclusion might be slightly different, as I said before, it's rendered redundant because the decisions have no lasting weight. I'm not bothered whether the ending was positive or negative for the characters involved, only about the decisions I made getting there to affect the outcome. Which in EVERY preview Bioware gave was a much touted feature of the game.

So changing the balance of power in the world is not enough for you... I'm just speechless at that one.

Also, as for why I'm debating with you, I could ask you the same thing...why are you trying your little heart out to convince everyone (and yourself it seems) that DA2 is worth a damn? DA2 doesn't need me to discredit it, it does a more than adequate job of that itself.

I'm not the one who's sitting on a DA2 board, and the developer's at that screaming how sucky it was and insulting the devs. You're going to give yourself high blood pressure that way.

You don't actually change anything, side with the Templars, side with the Mages, doesn't matter, the world is changed regardless. YOU as the player don;t change a thing, a fact you can't seem to understand.

My blood pressure? Lol, woman, you have no idea. Can;t you see that arguement is self-defeatist? So you AREN'T sitting on a DA2 board doing the exact same thing in reverse? You claim I'm screaming here putting the game down but you're counter screaming bigging it up? Open your eyes, man.

As for the "darkness", its always "ooohh Blood Magic must be at work here.." or "my gods!! he's a blood mage!", lol, kinda got old fast, made the majority of the quests trite and boring.

Anyway, I'm offski, glad you enjoyed the game so much, I didn't, and neither it seems did the vast majority of players.

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 20 mai 2011 - 11:53 .

[Everwarden]

BY-TOR STORMDRAGON wrote...

CAN'T we finish DA:2 FIRST, BIOWARE??? IT'S HALF-ASSED DONE!!!

This.

[_Aine_]

I blame boy bands for this broaden the reach crap that society is churning out now ad nauseum. (/sarcasm) Sure business wants to make money, but what, like ...once? Twice at most before it is just embarrassing? For DA: I choose to believe this was a blip. Yes, a blip.

I hope for big things from DA3. *Dreams*: There will be wind, and bushes, grass that grows longer than an inch and in wild patches, littering your path. There will be wildlife that scurries as I cut through the fields. (Hell, there will be fields to cut through and not solely set paths). The sun will move across the sky and people run for shelter when it rains. If I bump people, they may even curse me. Just a little. (That crazy drunk by the gate, perhaps a lot).

A blip is all, a blip. They won't simplify the game further...no-one truly wants money in exchange for dignity, no sir, they do not.

*sit on my haunches in a corner and rocks myself to sleep, muttering*

Personally: I think DA2 was actually a good idea, story wise. The method of delivery just didn't gel as much as was probably intended, but it wasn't as bad as some people let on either. It wasn't a technological or creative TRIUMPH sure, and yes, it was definitely more mainstream. So? They took a chance, some worked for me and some didn't. Some aspects were honestly fairly decent and if some people really loved it ( and some legitimately do ) why is that anyone else's business? So what if it won't win awards? If people like it, well.... I am honestly happy for them.  I love games and I love a decent amount of them. Some blow me away, some do not.

And some people are just whinging because they can't knit or some such nonsense.

If I were them (Bioware) I would listen carefully to what works for people, and what doesn't...and then, make the game they want to anyway, but this time with more attention to the details. That is really the only LASTING complaint I take away from DA2. It was a framework for me that ALMOST got there, but there weren't the *details* to flesh it out realistically with cut corners. Time. Or more people in absence of it.

End of the world? No way. Clearly, that is tomorrow.

Modifié par shantisands, 21 mai 2011 - 12:15 .