654 réponses à ce sujet

[nubbers666]

due to how bad this one turned out i refuse to pre order it i will wait till i can see some player videos on youtube not bioware made ones

please do not rush this da3

[Ariella]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

You don't actually change anything, side with the Templars, side with the Mages, doesn't matter, the world is changed regardless. YOU as the player don;t change a thing, a fact you can't seem to understand.

My blood pressure? Lol, woman, you have no idea. Can;t you see that arguement is self-defeatist? So you AREN'T sitting on a DA2 board doing the exact same thing in reverse? You claim I'm screaming here putting the game down but you're counter screaming bigging it up? Open your eyes, man.

Double talk suits you, James old boy. Difference between you and me is this isn't the only thing I do. I catch up on what's going on with the game. Discuss options, dream a little about what might come next. The only thing you seem to do while you're here seems to talk down to anyone who liked the game and make up facts.

As for the "darkness", its always "ooohh Blood Magic must be at work here.." or "my gods!! he's a blood mage!", lol, kinda got old fast, made the majority of the quests trite and boring.

If that's the only "darkness" you saw, you weren't looking in the right place.

Anyway, I'm offski, glad you enjoyed the game so much, I didn't, and neither it seems did the vast majority of players.

And who appointed you spokesperson. Unless you can back it up with actually legit numbers you don't have a piece of ground to stand on. You didn't like it, fine, not your cup of tea. Find something that is, and stop acting as if you're the arbitor of taste of everything.

[Sidney]

tonnactus wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

WOW! Because when I saw ME2 I was SO totally expecting Baldur's gate II shooter style!

No.I expected in fact as much talents like in the first game,for both,shepardt and squadmates.
But what happened: The best specialists in the galaxy could only use 3 skills at best.

Amazing.

Remember kids it is the # of skills you can pick that make the RPG. Ignore the lack of any usefuls skills in the Baldurs Gate series for example.

[Ariella]

Sidney wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

WOW! Because when I saw ME2 I was SO totally expecting Baldur's gate II shooter style!

No.I expected in fact as much talents like in the first game,for both,shepardt and squadmates.
But what happened: The best specialists in the galaxy could only use 3 skills at best.

Amazing.

Remember kids it is the # of skills you can pick that make the RPG. Ignore the lack of any usefuls skills in the Baldurs Gate series for example.

Thank you, Sidney.

[Sidney]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Exactly. Varric is recounting the event that triggered the war. The individual that did so was Anders. The events of DA2 would prbably have still played out without Hawke. Varric would've still ventured into the Deep Roads and found the Lyrium Idol with some other person. Someone else could've encountered Javaris and eventually confronting The Arishok, thereby becoming The Champion. So why did Hawke need to be a human again?

Hakwe obviously has to be a human to have the nobles family ties in Kirwall (no elves) and the mages line ( no dwarves). You can't tell that story with another race just like if they did DA2.5 and made it about Merrill that story would only work as an elf.

As for the events would have played out no, they wouldn't have. Given all the things Hawke does to enable the expedition for example that no one else seems to be capable of.

What appears to bother you and your unimaginative fellow travellers is that the world is alive and people other than you do something. I know it is shocking since most RPG worlds are basically dead slates that you are the only sentient being acting on the world. The funny thing is as dead as the DA2 world is (i.e. Kirkwall sucks for interaction) it is one of the few games to give you NPC's that aren't just there to serve your interests and let you play dress up. That is really one of the best things about the game.

[Drachasor]

Mash Mashington wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

Shepard's arguments against Mordin's usage of the Genophage were kinda shallow.

understatement of the century

Agreed.  It reminded me of taking Shale to the confrontation with Branka and Caridan.  I had arguments and thoughts the game wouldn't let me express.  The game wouldn't let me propose that they work to make free-willed golems, nor would it let my Shepherd argue that Mordin's group could have worked to change the culture of the Krogan (since that's the real problem).*

Instead I get stuck with just a bunch of stupid arguments.

*possibly using the genophage or the like as just a stopgap measure.

[Ariella]

Drachasor wrote...

Mash Mashington wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

Shepard's arguments against Mordin's usage of the Genophage were kinda shallow.

understatement of the century

Agreed.  It reminded me of taking Shale to the confrontation with Branka and Caridan.  I had arguments and thoughts the game wouldn't let me express.  The game wouldn't let me propose that they work to make free-willed golems, nor would it let my Shepherd argue that Mordin's group could have worked to change the culture of the Krogan (since that's the real problem).*

Instead I get stuck with just a bunch of stupid arguments.

*possibly using the genophage or the like as just a stopgap measure.

Not stupid if you know what real history sits behind it.

[Drachasor]

Ariella wrote...

Drachasor wrote...

Mash Mashington wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

Shepard's arguments against Mordin's usage of the Genophage were kinda shallow.

understatement of the century

Agreed.  It reminded me of taking Shale to the confrontation with Branka and Caridan.  I had arguments and thoughts the game wouldn't let me express.  The game wouldn't let me propose that they work to make free-willed golems, nor would it let my Shepherd argue that Mordin's group could have worked to change the culture of the Krogan (since that's the real problem).*

Instead I get stuck with just a bunch of stupid arguments.

*possibly using the genophage or the like as just a stopgap measure.

Not stupid if you know what real history sits behind it.

Explain.

[Darth Death]

Oh boy...

[Drachasor]

Sidney wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Exactly. Varric is recounting the event that triggered the war. The individual that did so was Anders. The events of DA2 would prbably have still played out without Hawke. Varric would've still ventured into the Deep Roads and found the Lyrium Idol with some other person. Someone else could've encountered Javaris and eventually confronting The Arishok, thereby becoming The Champion. So why did Hawke need to be a human again?

Hakwe obviously has to be a human to have the nobles family ties in Kirwall (no elves) and the mages line ( no dwarves). You can't tell that story with another race just like if they did DA2.5 and made it about Merrill that story would only work as an elf.

As for the events would have played out no, they wouldn't have. Given all the things Hawke does to enable the expedition for example that no one else seems to be capable of.

What appears to bother you and your unimaginative fellow travellers is that the world is alive and people other than you do something. I know it is shocking since most RPG worlds are basically dead slates that you are the only sentient being acting on the world. The funny thing is as dead as the DA2 world is (i.e. Kirkwall sucks for interaction) it is one of the few games to give you NPC's that aren't just there to serve your interests and let you play dress up. That is really one of the best things about the game.

No, there are people with money who will help fund the expedition.  Bartrand is greedy enough he'd eventually do that.  Varric is smart enough he'd probably hire on some of the companion characters.

The 2nd Act would have ended with Meredith killing the Arishock, leading to the same insane confrontation between two crazies in Act 3.  Pretty much every major element would have happened the same way...maybe Varric wouldn't have lived past act 1, but in terms of the overall structure of events that's a minor detail.

Hawke really wasn't that important...there were others who would have done the same thing in his place.  This is all the more emphasized by facts like you don't do anything about crazy people trying to cause the city to burst into chaos.  You meet them, talk to them, they try to get you killed and cause trouble for the city, and you just give them a stern line or two.  Unsurprisingly, they go on their way.  At the end of Act 2 you apparently sit back for 3 years and let the city go to hell doing nothing to stop it.

DA2 is, in many ways, deeply deprotagonizing.  There are exceptions to this and some nice bits of story here and there (though a good story bit doesn't make you a good protagonist), but overall how the game is constructed on a story level  has major flaws.

Modifié par Drachasor, 21 mai 2011 - 12:45 .

[Ottemis]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Ariella wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

This. I sided with the mages all game, what a joke. Doesn't matter.

It DOES matter, just after the fact and changes Thedas...

Your naivetè is astounding. See it for what it is, a cop out. A rushed game with a botched ending that takes all choice out of the hands of the player.

I say it doesn't matter because NOTHING you do will change the outcome, that is a result of the framed narrative which is a design choice, and as such part of the reason the game is OBJECTIVELY broken. However, even within the framed narrative there could have been scope for different endings based on the path you took through the game, instead of just rendering all your decisions redundant and having the same ending EVERY time.

Could have been an intentional message. Isn't that life? Make choices trying to do the right thing finding out that it all BLOWS in the end. Even if you could go back and remake a choice, it could still EQUALLY BLOW.

Good point made by Bioware if you ask me. Maybe not what people were expecting, but well, tough cookie in the end.
Sometimes there is no happy ending, if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. The only thing you could do was give it your best, and knowing that through the frustration of seeing nothing change.

If I think anything about Hawke, and certain outcomes in the story people have had lots of issues with it's because Hawke is HUMAN, not superhuman with rainbows shooting out his/her fingertips. Bad **** happens Hawke can't do anything about.

Modifié par Ottemis, 21 mai 2011 - 12:49 .

[Drachasor]

Ottemis wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Ariella wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

This. I sided with the mages all game, what a joke. Doesn't matter.

It DOES matter, just after the fact and changes Thedas...

Your naivetè is astounding. See it for what it is, a cop out. A rushed game with a botched ending that takes all choice out of the hands of the player.

I say it doesn't matter because NOTHING you do will change the outcome, that is a result of the framed narrative which is a design choice, and as such part of the reason the game is OBJECTIVELY broken. However, even within the framed narrative there could have been scope for different endings based on the path you took through the game, instead of just rendering all your decisions redundant and having the same ending EVERY time.

Could have been an intentional message. Isn't that life? Make choices trying to do the right thing finding out that it all BLOWS in the end. Even if you could go back and remake a choice, it could still EQUALLY BLOW.

Good point made by Bioware if you ask me. Maybe not what people were expecting, but well, tough cookie in the end.

Hahaha.  That's hilarious.

[Ottemis]

*bows

[Sidney]

Drachasor wrote...

DA2 is, in many ways, deeply deprotagonizing.  There are exceptions to this and some nice bits of story here and there (though a good story bit doesn't make you a good protagonist), but overall how the game is constructed on a story level  has major flaws.

so basically your arguement become it could have happened w/o Hakwe but of course it didn't. Wellington didn't matter either because Napoleon was eventually going to lose.

Still, let's give your assumption that Hake is a complete ineffectual. So what? In the Iiiad no one can change their fate and these are the greatest heroes of all time. Willy Loman is an interesting character despite not changing the world. To use something with Dwarves and Elves folks might relate to what exactly did anyone not named Frodo "do" in the Lord of the Rings. Did you skip overall the not Frodo parts because they were all just functions of the ring bearer mission or like most sane people did you skip that awful walking parts to get to the sidekicks? In the end, the fact that you need the charging hero to feel connected to a protangonist is a lot more about your failings than the story's.

[Drachasor]

Sidney wrote...

Drachasor wrote...

DA2 is, in many ways, deeply deprotagonizing.  There are exceptions to this and some nice bits of story here and there (though a good story bit doesn't make you a good protagonist), but overall how the game is constructed on a story level  has major flaws.

so basically your arguement become it could have happened w/o Hakwe but of course it didn't. Wellington didn't matter either because Napoleon was eventually going to lose.

Still, let's give your assumption that Hake is a complete ineffectual. So what? In the Iiiad no one can change their fate and these are the greatest heroes of all time. Willy Loman is an interesting character despite not changing the world. To use something with Dwarves and Elves folks might relate to what exactly did anyone not named Frodo "do" in the Lord of the Rings. Did you skip overall the not Frodo parts because they were all just functions of the ring bearer mission or like most sane people did you skip that awful walking parts to get to the sidekicks? In the end, the fact that you need the charging hero to feel connected to a protangonist is a lot more about your failings than the story's.

Yes, the fact that Bioware failed to make an RPG where you make meaningful decisions isn't because the game was rushed out the door without sufficient developmment, but because they were doing True Art that harkens back to the Iliad.

Let's put this another way.  It doesn't matter if the player is there in the game or if you have a randomizer making all the dialogue decisions.  What you do AS A PLAYER barely makes a difference.  That's what makes the RPG element of the game so awful.

[Ottemis]

It's a dark fantasy, there's no good or bad, just something inbetween that you, as neither inherently good or bad, make a decision on.

Purely looking at that.. how is it logical Hawke would be able to "save" Kirkwall? It's hellbent on destroying itself.
You though, you think about all these things, you hope for certain outcomes, and you base your decisions on those hopes.
You built your character.

So where's the flaw? That it's not a fairytale?

Modifié par Ottemis, 21 mai 2011 - 01:12 .

[Ariella]

Drachasor wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Drachasor wrote...

DA2 is, in many ways, deeply deprotagonizing.  There are exceptions to this and some nice bits of story here and there (though a good story bit doesn't make you a good protagonist), but overall how the game is constructed on a story level  has major flaws.

so basically your arguement become it could have happened w/o Hakwe but of course it didn't. Wellington didn't matter either because Napoleon was eventually going to lose.

Still, let's give your assumption that Hake is a complete ineffectual. So what? In the Iiiad no one can change their fate and these are the greatest heroes of all time. Willy Loman is an interesting character despite not changing the world. To use something with Dwarves and Elves folks might relate to what exactly did anyone not named Frodo "do" in the Lord of the Rings. Did you skip overall the not Frodo parts because they were all just functions of the ring bearer mission or like most sane people did you skip that awful walking parts to get to the sidekicks? In the end, the fact that you need the charging hero to feel connected to a protangonist is a lot more about your failings than the story's.

Yes, the fact that Bioware failed to make an RPG where you make meaningful decisions isn't because the game was rushed out the door without sufficient developmment, but because they were doing True Art that harkens back to the Iliad.

Let's put this another way.  It doesn't matter if the player is there in the game or if you have a randomizer making all the dialogue decisions.  What you do AS A PLAYER barely makes a difference.  That's what makes the RPG element of the game so awful.

Really, I, personally happened to enjoy the trials and tribulations of Hawke and how she dealt with her situation. She was as real to me as any character I've written or played. I got to find out the real story behind the myth of "the Champion of Kirkwall", who turned out to be not some chosen one, but someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and ended up a hero despite it.

[Kilshrek]

Ariella wrote...


Really, I, personally happened to enjoy the trials and tribulations of Hawke and how she dealt with her situation. She was as real to me as any character I've written or played. I got to find out the real story behind the myth of "the Champion of Kirkwall", who turned out to be not some chosen one, but someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and ended up a hero despite it.

You may feel that way, but I felt like I was reading a story of Hawke, not influencing or directing the story of Hawke, which was rather what I was promised as a game. I like the story on its own, but as a game story, and a Bioware story, I was pretty disappointed that I was on the kiddie wheels throughout.

[Ariella]

Kilshrek wrote...

Ariella wrote...


Really, I, personally happened to enjoy the trials and tribulations of Hawke and how she dealt with her situation. She was as real to me as any character I've written or played. I got to find out the real story behind the myth of "the Champion of Kirkwall", who turned out to be not some chosen one, but someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and ended up a hero despite it.

You may feel that way, but I felt like I was reading a story of Hawke, not influencing or directing the story of Hawke, which was rather what I was promised as a game. I like the story on its own, but as a game story, and a Bioware story, I was pretty disappointed that I was on the kiddie wheels throughout.

I do find that odd, but this is a your mileage may vary type of situation. Then again I always have played RPGs like they were choose your own adventures. I play on casual, I'm not a big fan of combat (but amazingly I enjoyed it more in DA2 than most fantasy games), I like to get on with the story, where it's just me and the Dev team and what we come up with together.

[BeefoTheBold]

The question was never whether or not they would make a DA3. It was whether or not they'd really invest in making an exceptional DA3 or take the "cash-in" approach on a big name.

This question remains outstanding in my opinion. The fact that a DA3 is in development is a complete non-news item.

I, for one, will be watching very closely what Bioware does with DA3 over the next year or so when determining a purchase.

[Ariella]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

The question was never whether or not they would make a DA3. It was whether or not they'd really invest in making an exceptional DA3 or take the "cash-in" approach on a big name.

This question remains outstanding in my opinion. The fact that a DA3 is in development is a complete non-news item.

I, for one, will be watching very closely what Bioware does with DA3 over the next year or so when determining a purchase.

You're so careful about your phrasing. Beef, and there's no reason to be. Keeping an eye is smart, it's what I did with DA2 from announcement onward.

[Sidney]

Drachasor wrote...

Let's put this another way.  It doesn't matter if the player is there in the game or if you have a randomizer making all the dialogue decisions.  What you do AS A PLAYER barely makes a difference.  That's what makes the RPG element of the game so awful.

Only if you want sword charging middle school fantasy plot. Hawke does a lot of things but Hawke alone isnt enough to save Kirkwall. That is the point. The whole reason Varric is telling the story is that Cassandra wants generic fantasy hero plot #2 to be what happened but what happened isn't as simplistic as she thinks it is nor as you want it to be.

Sometimes people are part of history and don't make it - watch The King's Speech for a guy who also "did nothing" and was just there when something happened - his brother abdicates, WWII begins. He doesn't cause the former nor stop the latter but is he still an interesting character?

[Ottemis]

I reckon it really depends.
On the one hand you could have faith in knowing that Bioware KNOWS more development time brings out better games, and they are certainly capable of coming up with mouth-watering goodies for us.
On the other hand there's the pressure put on development, because (as has been stated on these boards before) it might be that even a rushed game, which will have been cheaper then a non-rushed one, can bring up funds that are in balance with it's costs.

So it kinda depends which side the coin lands I would suppose.

So yes, being cautious is never wrong. It's your money.

Modifié par Ottemis, 21 mai 2011 - 01:29 .

[Ariella]

Sidney wrote...

Drachasor wrote...

Let's put this another way.  It doesn't matter if the player is there in the game or if you have a randomizer making all the dialogue decisions.  What you do AS A PLAYER barely makes a difference.  That's what makes the RPG element of the game so awful.

Only if you want sword charging middle school fantasy plot. Hawke does a lot of things but Hawke alone isnt enough to save Kirkwall. That is the point. The whole reason Varric is telling the story is that Cassandra wants generic fantasy hero plot #2 to be what happened but what happened isn't as simplistic as she thinks it is nor as you want it to be.

Sometimes people are part of history and don't make it - watch The King's Speech for a guy who also "did nothing" and was just there when something happened - his brother abdicates, WWII begins. He doesn't cause the former nor stop the latter but is he still an interesting character?

World War 2 is full of stories of people who just happened to be there. Happen to be lucky enough to survive. It's the way life really is.

Sidney, the only thing I'd change is at the beginning Cassandra wanted generic fantasy villian plot 2. She wanted Hawke to be the villian of Varric's piece rather than the legend.

[BeefoTheBold]

Ariella wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

The question was never whether or not they would make a DA3. It was whether or not they'd really invest in making an exceptional DA3 or take the "cash-in" approach on a big name.

This question remains outstanding in my opinion. The fact that a DA3 is in development is a complete non-news item.

I, for one, will be watching very closely what Bioware does with DA3 over the next year or so when determining a purchase.

You're so careful about your phrasing. Beef, and there's no reason to be. Keeping an eye is smart, it's what I did with DA2 from announcement onward.

You're probably right. To put it a different way, I'm going to be watching a few specific things with regards to DA3.

1. Development time - Pretty obvious. Long development time = investment. If EA/Bioware is intending to do a cash-in approach, a short development time will be a pretty good canary in the coal mine indicator
2. Public comments in reference to DAO vs. DA2. Which game they're bashing vs. which one they're playing up is going to be a good tell I think. If you see a lot of comments about building on DA2, then I'm going to be skeptical. If you see a lot about "going back to their roots with DAO" then I'm going to be excited.
3. Previews from a few of the more reputable review sites. I hate to do this because I don't like any part of an upcoming major WRPG release spoiled, but...
4. Will play the demo extensively
5. No pre-shipments to reviews is going to be a major red flag for me this time. I want reviews up in advance of any purchase I make
6. Amount of Day 1 preorder DLC.