654 réponses à ce sujet

[dielveio]

After DA2 I'm pretty sure I'll wait 6 months at least before buy DA3.

[Ottemis]

Well if nothing else, that's enough time to iron out possible bugs too, patch wise =P

[TemplarofSteel]

im thinking that had more than one purpose for that tweet and one of them was probably to divert some attention off of dragon age 2 and having it go to DA3 (the controversy def. forced there hand sooner than they wanted to). I for one thought DA2 was a pretty good and entertaining game but definately not fantastic. By Bioware standards though its definately a disappoint.

Modifié par TemplarofSteel, 21 mai 2011 - 01:47 .

[RVNX]

dielveio wrote...

After DA2 I'm pretty sure I'll wait 6 months at least before buy DA3.

While I'm not sure I'll wait 6 months, I too will be more cautious about DA3.

I will definitely NOT give DA3 my confidence like I did with DA2, based on how much I liked DAO.

With DA2, it was really the 1st time I followed a game from its announcement to its release.  And by joining this forum, I was able to discuss it with fellow DA fans and even interact with some of the Devs.

Even though I wasn't pleased with all the decisions they made with DA2, I gave it the benefit of doubt and remained optimistic, expecting it to live up to ( or surpass ) DAO.  I preordered the SIG edition and was there to pick it up the day of release.

Once I started playing DA2, however, I just couldn't get into it like I did with Origins.  I barely got past the initial fleeing of Lothering and started to lose interest.  It didn't help that I didn't like the Character Creation models as much as I liked it in Origins.  Nor did it help when I kept reading on these boards about how your actions and choices don't really make much difference in the end.

That was really the buzzkill for me.  The main reason why I was willing to overlook and forgive the changes they made to DA2 was my hope that by focusing on just 1 race and main character ( and 1 city, too ),  you'd be able to have a much more in-depth, immersive experience where your choices and actions really made a difference.

With DA3, I am not going to be so forgiving.  If I hear that they are going to limit our choices and RP options even further, then I won't be interested.

Ironically, I am looking forward to ME3 and Elder Scrolls: Skyrim more than DA3, whereas before, I liked DAO over ME2 and Oblivion.

[BeefoTheBold]

RVNX wrote...

dielveio wrote...

After DA2 I'm pretty sure I'll wait 6 months at least before buy DA3.

While I'm not sure I'll wait 6 months, I too will be more cautious about DA3.

I will definitely NOT give DA3 my confidence like I did with DA2, based on how much I liked DAO.

With DA2, it was really the 1st time I followed a game from its announcement to its release.  And by joining this forum, I was able to discuss it with fellow DA fans and even interact with some of the Devs.

Even though I wasn't pleased with all the decisions they made with DA2, I gave it the benefit of doubt and remained optimistic, expecting it to live up to ( or surpass ) DAO.  I preordered the SIG edition and was there to pick it up the day of release.

Once I started playing DA2, however, I just couldn't get into it like I did with Origins.  I barely got past the initial fleeing of Lothering and started to lose interest.  It didn't help that I didn't like the Character Creation models as much as I liked it in Origins.  Nor did it help when I kept reading on these boards about how your actions and choices don't really make much difference in the end.

That was really the buzzkill for me.  The main reason why I was willing to overlook and forgive the changes they made to DA2 was my hope that by focusing on just 1 race and main character ( and 1 city, too ),  you'd be able to have a much more in-depth, immersive experience where your choices and actions really made a difference.

With DA3, I am not going to be so forgiving.  If I hear that they are going to limit our choices and RP options even further, then I won't be interested.

Ironically, I am looking forward to ME3 and Elder Scrolls: Skyrim more than DA3, whereas before, I liked DAO over ME2 and Oblivion.

This is a very well-written synopsis of where I'm at as well.

[Ariella]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Ariella wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

The question was never whether or not they would make a DA3. It was whether or not they'd really invest in making an exceptional DA3 or take the "cash-in" approach on a big name.

This question remains outstanding in my opinion. The fact that a DA3 is in development is a complete non-news item.

I, for one, will be watching very closely what Bioware does with DA3 over the next year or so when determining a purchase.

You're so careful about your phrasing. Beef, and there's no reason to be. Keeping an eye is smart, it's what I did with DA2 from announcement onward.

You're probably right. To put it a different way, I'm going to be watching a few specific things with regards to DA3.

1. Development time - Pretty obvious. Long development time = investment. If EA/Bioware is intending to do a cash-in approach, a short development time will be a pretty good canary in the coal mine indicator

I didn't think eighteen months was a terrible length for development time, though I'm hoping for closer to two years two 1/2 this time around

2. Public comments in reference to DAO vs. DA2. Which game they're bashing vs. which one they're playing up is going to be a good tell I think. If you see a lot of comments about building on DA2, then I'm going to be skeptical. If you see a lot about "going back to their roots with DAO" then I'm going to be excited.

Grabbing my magic eightball, I'm betting we're going to see something inbetween the two. It's going to be akin to watching a highwire balancing act, but it'll be interesting if they manage to get the balance. DA 2 may have been going to far from what they enjoy for a lot of fans, but I don't see them going very far back to DAO, which really was developed in a different age.

3. Previews from a few of the more reputable review sites. I hate to do this because I don't like any part of an upcoming major WRPG release spoiled, but...
4. Will play the demo extensively
5. No pre-shipments to reviews is going to be a major red flag for me this time. I want reviews up in advance of any purchase I make
6. Amount of Day 1 preorder DLC.

Don't have much to say on the rest except for the DLC. If you mean the stuff that comes free with buying the game, expect it. Otherwise, I really have no comment.

[BeefoTheBold]

Ariella wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Ariella wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

The question was never whether or not they would make a DA3. It was whether or not they'd really invest in making an exceptional DA3 or take the "cash-in" approach on a big name.

This question remains outstanding in my opinion. The fact that a DA3 is in development is a complete non-news item.

I, for one, will be watching very closely what Bioware does with DA3 over the next year or so when determining a purchase.

You're so careful about your phrasing. Beef, and there's no reason to be. Keeping an eye is smart, it's what I did with DA2 from announcement onward.

You're probably right. To put it a different way, I'm going to be watching a few specific things with regards to DA3.

1. Development time - Pretty obvious. Long development time = investment. If EA/Bioware is intending to do a cash-in approach, a short development time will be a pretty good canary in the coal mine indicator

I didn't think eighteen months was a terrible length for development time, though I'm hoping for closer to two years two 1/2 this time around

2. Public comments in reference to DAO vs. DA2. Which game they're bashing vs. which one they're playing up is going to be a good tell I think. If you see a lot of comments about building on DA2, then I'm going to be skeptical. If you see a lot about "going back to their roots with DAO" then I'm going to be excited.

Grabbing my magic eightball, I'm betting we're going to see something inbetween the two. It's going to be akin to watching a highwire balancing act, but it'll be interesting if they manage to get the balance. DA 2 may have been going to far from what they enjoy for a lot of fans, but I don't see them going very far back to DAO, which really was developed in a different age.

3. Previews from a few of the more reputable review sites. I hate to do this because I don't like any part of an upcoming major WRPG release spoiled, but...
4. Will play the demo extensively
5. No pre-shipments to reviews is going to be a major red flag for me this time. I want reviews up in advance of any purchase I make
6. Amount of Day 1 preorder DLC.

Don't have much to say on the rest except for the DLC. If you mean the stuff that comes free with buying the game, expect it. Otherwise, I really have no comment.

I think 18 months has been proven to be too short based on the end result of DA2.

WIth regards to splitting the difference between DAO and DA2 with DA3, I'm not so sure that you'll see the compromise approach. I'm really worried that you'll see a "doubling down" approach with DA3. Think poker. Rather than fold the hand and move on, they'll try and go all-in. In fact, I would not at all be surprised to see online coop with one player playing the Warden and the other playing Hawke. It sure seems like what the ending of DA2 was leading up to and the general direction of the industry as a whole lately.

Speaking only for myself, I wouldn't be able to buy DA3 if that's the direction that they go in.

I think the difficult thing is that there isn't a whole lot of overlap between the two audiences that DA2 tried to address simultanously. This is part of what makes the balancing act that you describe so hard to achieve. You're trying to please two very differentiated groups of gamers at the same time.

It could be argued that this was pulled off successfully with ME2, but I always kind of felt that many old-school RPG fans gave Bioware a bit of a mulligan on that one. They figured:

1. ME was largely a shooter to begin with anyway
2. We still have the DA franchise to fall back upon. We'll let Bioware do their reach out efforts with the ME franchise since we'll still get the DA one to prove that Bioware hasn't forgotten us.

I think a large part of the backlash you're seeing over DA2 is that the "old school" group feels abandoned completely. It was supposed to be a fair trade. ME for the "streamlined" crowd and DA for the more traditionalist ones. Instead, you now have some of the traditionalists going, "Hold the phone here. No KOTOR 3. ME is now almost completely a shooter. DA is targeting the COD crowd. What about us?"

If I remember right, I think Edgar Allen Poe once something to the effect of (paraphrased) the hazards of trying to create two different moods in literature at once. If you're going to write a horror story, then write a horror story. If you're going to write a comedy, then write a comedy. But comedy and horror do not mix like peanut butter and jelly. If you try and write both simultaneously you're going to fail.

I think this is the optimum approach that Bioware needs to take. Each game needs to have a specific target audience without the balancing act. Ideally, this should be each franchise going after the two disparate markets. If that means ME goes after one audience and DA goes after the other, then so be it.

[Ottemis]

Meh, I can understand the argument they should stick in their respective corners, but honestly, I thouroughly enjoyed all 4 games. I wasen't as set back that DA2 didn't fall into more traditional footsteps; I also don't feel ME is too much of a shooter, nor that either are losing RPG roots, whatever else they've also ended up becoming simultaniously.

Having said that, it's a solid point that what's probably hurting DA2 and it's direction the most is that it fell out of bounds with the expectations the hardcore fans had.

There's so many opinions floating about on this subject it's impossible to judge which would be the 'better' course.

Modifié par Ottemis, 21 mai 2011 - 02:27 .

[RVNX]

There are 2 main things that I want them to "fix" in DA2.

1.  Get rid of the class/weapon-style restriction.  It was silly and pointless.  It's supposed to be a ROLE PLAYING GAME.  Why can't my mage wield a sword instead of a staff.  Why can't my warrior Dual Wield 2 swords, or, GASP, 2 daggers.  The weapon animations and talents should be based on the weapon style, not the class. 

This is especially true when you look at other RPGs out now or coming out and the trend is less class restriction.  IOW, they give you more freedom to create your character the way you want to.

2.  Also, if you are going to include Specializations, for Pete's Sake, MAKE THEM MEAN SOMETHING TO THE STORY!!!

In DAO, your specs were pretty much just another talent tree.  Except for a few instances where obtaining certain specs caused conflicts with some companions, they really didn't impact the story at all or how others treated your character.

If you become a Blood Mage, then the world should TREAT YOU LIKE A BLOOD MAGE.  Same with being a Templar.  Or Assassin, etc.

This was one area where I was hoping they would improve upon in DA2.  Especially when I heard how central the Templar vs. Mage (and Blood Mages, in particular ) conflict would be to the story.  Before the game was released, I was coming up with all kinds of cool scenarios of how to develop my Hawkes.

Like, I would be a Blood Mage who was good, polite, and tried to help people.  Or, I'd be a Templar who "went rogue" and defied the Chantry to support the mages and protect her sister.

However, once the game was released, and people were reporting their feedback here, I asked if choosing a spec, like being a Blood Mage or Templar, made much difference to the story.  When people reported back and said no, I was like "Oh. that kind of sucks."

Again, it was a buzzkill for me, and it all ties back to immersion in the story.

If specs do return in DA3, they should be treated more as "jobs" ( like in Final Fantasy ) or as sub-classes.  They should further define your character's role in the world and not just merely be extra talents trees.

Modifié par RVNX, 21 mai 2011 - 02:28 .

[toddx77]

I'm probably not getting DA3 unless I can play as my Greywarden and get my Origins team back. If that statement doesn't make sense I apologize since I haven't finished DA2 yet.

[RVNX]

toddx77 wrote...

I'm probably not getting DA3 unless I can play as my Greywarden and get my Origins team back. If that statement doesn't make sense I apologize since I haven't finished DA2 yet.

no..........it does make sense.

I am replaying Origins now and I never thought I'd say this.........I miss my Warden!!

I'm not sure if I want to play as Hawke again in DA3.

One thing the Mass Effect series has going for it, IMO, is that it is Shephard's story.

If DA3 focuses on yet another new character, then that might make it harder to get into it...........

[lobi]

RVNX wrote...

If DA3 focuses on yet another new character, then that might make it harder to get into it...........

What if it is a familiar one then?
DA3 "The Erotic Adventures of Sandal"

Modifié par lobi, 21 mai 2011 - 03:01 .

[Sharn]

What is needed to make DA3 epic.
1.Awesome battle cutscenes, and epic battle gameplay as well.
2.Something that involves saving the world and not a little city
3.Even more chesthair, thats one thing DA2 did right
4.More unique monsters, fighting thugs and mercenaries is really boring
5.Characters with more life in them, and ones you can talk to all the time and each time they have something to say
6..NO RECYCLED ENVIRONMENTS! FUUUUUUUUUUU-worst thing a game can do, in my opinion
7.Ladies that are actually hot, and be able to see their panties.
8.Races.....who cares about hawke, let his story continue in an expansion, not DA3
9.don't make us give the hottest chick over to a bad guy...seriously, i mean it is optional but u dont get to duel him if u dont do it.
10.Better graphics, duh

I cant think of anything else that was wrong with DA2 at the moment, so add at least some of those things and ill be happy Bioware JUST LOOK AT #6!!!

[Lady Mimzy]

Personaly I'd like to see more of Thedas. I've heard about how beautiful Val Royeaux is from the first game and in the books. I'd like to see the Anderfels and Weishaupt Fortress. We heard from Sten and Fenris about Seheron. Please start letting us go there.

I agree that the elfs needed to change but they still don't look right or maybe it's just me. Now that someone mentioned it, they do kind of look like goats. >.>

As for character creations: I'd still like to be able to change the height of my PC. I guess because irl I'm 4'11 female, that's what I'd like to be in games as well. Heros should be able to come in all sizes. Okay at least in small, average and tall.

[Alexander1136]

Do we Really need multiple threads on this.... i'm excited but there's another thread on this.

[TemplarofSteel]

Alexander1136 wrote...

Do we Really need multiple threads on this.... i'm excited but there's another thread on this.

Theres one announcement thread in the registered general discussion and the other in the regular discussion thats about it.

[erynnar]

Sidney wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Exactly. Varric is recounting the event that triggered the war. The individual that did so was Anders. The events of DA2 would prbably have still played out without Hawke. Varric would've still ventured into the Deep Roads and found the Lyrium Idol with some other person. Someone else could've encountered Javaris and eventually confronting The Arishok, thereby becoming The Champion. So why did Hawke need to be a human again?

Hakwe obviously has to be a human to have the nobles family ties in Kirwall (no elves) and the mages line ( no dwarves). You can't tell that story with another race just like if they did DA2.5 and made it about Merrill that story would only work as an elf.

As for the events would have played out no, they wouldn't have. Given all the things Hawke does to enable the expedition for example that no one else seems to be capable of.

What appears to bother you and your unimaginative fellow travellers is that the world is alive and people other than you do something. I know it is shocking since most RPG worlds are basically dead slates that you are the only sentient being acting on the world. The funny thing is as dead as the DA2 world is (i.e. Kirkwall sucks for interaction) it is one of the few games to give you NPC's that aren't just there to serve your interests and let you play dress up. That is really one of the best things about the game.

Or the three year jaunts of Hawke sitting with their thumbs up their ass or being in a coma while **** plays out. God, Hawke has to be one of the most obtuse, moronic, blind, and boring characters ever. Three year black-outs drinking at the Hanged man til they lie in puddles of their own vomit (I guess I'm not too unimaginative, now am I) while the city falls to ****e for which ever reason depending on the Act your in? I guess Hawke cleans up goes to AA meetings in time for the opening of each Act before falling off the bloody wagon to sit in a corner drooling on herself/himself for three years. Rinse, lather, repeat.

Three disjointed storie lines all tied together with what amounts to spider webs with blackout intermissions of Hawke being a disembodied head in jar? A drunk? Leaves Kirkwall to find an invisible barrier and spends, what, three years seeing if there's an opening? Is afflicted with some disease where they sit and drool loosing all sense of time and place? Maybe Hawke has a case of cranial rectal inversion every three years that accounts for the fade to black...?

All hyperbole aside, I am hardly one without imagination. I just find the explanations for the gaping plot holes a little to big to just gloss over myself. And if that makes me unimaginative, well the sign me up. Rather be considered dense then make up all kinds of craptastic excuses for Hawke.

edited for spelling

Modifié par erynnar, 21 mai 2011 - 05:13 .

[craigdolphin]

DAO is my favorite game to-date. So this announcement should make me happy.

But after DA2, I'm afraid it doesn't. *sigh*

Well, what I'm going to be watching for:

1. Conversations that can be initiated by the PC any where, at any time.
2. Toning down the ridiculous combat animations while keeping the responsiveness
3. Meaningful choices. With consequences that actually differ between choices.
4. Fully customizable companion armor etc. No more living in a world where every tailor/armorer/weaponsmith makes items only for the PC.
5. NPC's that appeal to me: especially romancable NPC's.
6. Redesigned elves and darkspawn.
7. More varied and dynamic environments

Doubtless I will be disappointed in many of these. Which means I likely won't be preordering this time around. I'll wait for player reviews to decide if I'll be buying at all.

[ShadowStar83]

One thing I'd like to see less of...oversized arachnids...yea, thanks.

[What?]

Please, Bioware, take your time with this. Don't mess it up. This is your chance, man. Make us proud. /manlytears

Modifié par VictorianTrash, 21 mai 2011 - 05:49 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

Ariella wrote...

Kilshrek wrote...

Ariella wrote...


Really, I, personally happened to enjoy the trials and tribulations of Hawke and how she dealt with her situation. She was as real to me as any character I've written or played. I got to find out the real story behind the myth of "the Champion of Kirkwall", who turned out to be not some chosen one, but someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and ended up a hero despite it.

You may feel that way, but I felt like I was reading a story of Hawke, not influencing or directing the story of Hawke, which was rather what I was promised as a game. I like the story on its own, but as a game story, and a Bioware story, I was pretty disappointed that I was on the kiddie wheels throughout.

I do find that odd, but this is a your mileage may vary type of situation. Then again I always have played RPGs like they were choose your own adventures. I play on casual, I'm not a big fan of combat (but amazingly I enjoyed it more in DA2 than most fantasy games), I like to get on with the story, where it's just me and the Dev team and what we come up with together.

Ha...that explains a lot, you play on Casual. No wonder you find DA2 better than DA:O, given that DA2 is a lot more brainless button bashing. Nevermind the other GLARING faults.

Man, from the replies since last night it's clear they could forcefeed you crap and you'd just guzzle it down.
Such a paperweight defense you've tried to construct as well...can't actually rebuff my arguments so you question what I'm doing here. N00b.

And yes, thats Leet speak, and no, I don't care if you critique it. I've played enough CSS and SC2 at near competition level justify it's use.

[JamesMoriarty123]

craigdolphin wrote...

DAO is my favorite game to-date. So this announcement should make me happy.

But after DA2, I'm afraid it doesn't. *sigh*

Well, what I'm going to be watching for:

1. Conversations that can be initiated by the PC any where, at any time.
2. Toning down the ridiculous combat animations while keeping the responsiveness
3. Meaningful choices. With consequences that actually differ between choices.
4. Fully customizable companion armor etc. No more living in a world where every tailor/armorer/weaponsmith makes items only for the PC.
5. NPC's that appeal to me: especially romancable NPC's.
6. Redesigned elves and darkspawn.
7. More varied and dynamic environments

Doubtless I will be disappointed in many of these. Which means I likely won't be preordering this time around. I'll wait for player reviews to decide if I'll be buying at all.

You're right on, brother.

[jakers_75]

I was disapointed with some aspects of DA2 but I'm enjoying it enough to where I'd definitely preorder DA3, especially if they listen to some of the criticisms about DA2.

[Skyplant]

If Bioware have any sense at all they will make an rpg this time round.

[Morroian]

erynnar wrote...

Or the three year jaunts of Hawke sitting with their thumbs up their ass or being in a coma while **** plays out. God, Hawke has to be one of the most obtuse, moronic, blind, and boring characters ever. Three year black-outs drinking at the Hanged man til they lie in puddles of their own vomit (I guess I'm not too unimaginative, now am I) while the city falls to ****e for which ever reason depending on the Act your in? I guess Hawke cleans up goes to AA meetings in time for the opening of each Act before falling off the bloody wagon to sit in a corner drooling on herself/himself for three years. Rinse, lather, repeat.

I don't see why Hawke isn't doing smaller quests unrelated to the Qunari and mage stories in those off periods. We just see it when everything comes to a head in both main stories. The qunari story in particular there would have been nothing to indicate that Hawke should have been doing anything in that period about the Qunari anyway.