654 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

jakecollette wrote...

Personally I think they will combine the good elements of both games and make an outstanding game.

As much as I would love to share in your illogical enthusiasm and excitement - I simply don't believe it will be a good game.

Interest factor: ~ 0

Illogical enthusiasm?

How very....kind. No, wait, it's actually condescending. How about waiting until we get some information rather than condemning a game you know nothing about? If you're not interested, fine. But don't tell those who are interested/looking forward to/hoping that DAIII will be a great game that their enthusiasm is illogical. Must people really be such spoilsports?

[Persephone]

Drachasor wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Drachasor wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Found this while looking up info on Metacritic:

http://www.brainygam...metacritic.html

I ain't using the site anyway, but perhaps this might sway some others to gather intel elsewhere too, for some perspective.

Just pointing this out.  That link is about how Metacritic has problems with how it handles the reviews by Critics and only Critics.  It has nothing to do with user reviews.  IMHO, reviews by critics for games are crap anyway, so who cares?

But, as we've seen, it is all too easy to troll the user reviews. There is no real regulation at all.

DA2 has over 2000 reviews, it would take like 10% of them to be trolls in one direction in not another for it to have a significant impact on the overall score (and even then we're only talk about a shift of a point or so).  There's no evidence of fraudulent voting on that scale, let alone on that scale and in only one direction.  Indeed, something below 5 makes sense for a below average game -- user reviews, unlike critic reviews make use of more of the full 10-point scale.  I'll take the aggregate user review over critic reviews any day of the week.

Just compare these (Written in 2 1/2 months, most in the first week) to the WAY LESS reviews DAO got in almost 2 YEARS. Those numbers alone show how skewed the ratings are on that site. (And the DAII vs. TWII flamewars aren't helping any). And then you have people ADMITTING to hate campaigning against it around release day. I will never trust a single user score from that site. Ever. Be it for a game I love OR a game I hate.

[erynnar]

Persephone wrote...

Drachasor wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Drachasor wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Found this while looking up info on Metacritic:

http://www.brainygam...metacritic.html

I ain't using the site anyway, but perhaps this might sway some others to gather intel elsewhere too, for some perspective.

Just pointing this out.  That link is about how Metacritic has problems with how it handles the reviews by Critics and only Critics.  It has nothing to do with user reviews.  IMHO, reviews by critics for games are crap anyway, so who cares?

But, as we've seen, it is all too easy to troll the user reviews. There is no real regulation at all.

DA2 has over 2000 reviews, it would take like 10% of them to be trolls in one direction in not another for it to have a significant impact on the overall score (and even then we're only talk about a shift of a point or so).  There's no evidence of fraudulent voting on that scale, let alone on that scale and in only one direction.  Indeed, something below 5 makes sense for a below average game -- user reviews, unlike critic reviews make use of more of the full 10-point scale.  I'll take the aggregate user review over critic reviews any day of the week.

Just compare these (Written in 2 1/2 months, most in the first week) to the WAY LESS reviews DAO got in almost 2 YEARS. Those numbers alone show how skewed the ratings are on that site. (And the DAII vs. TWII flamewars aren't helping any). And then you have people ADMITTING to hate campaigning against it around release day. I will never trust a single user score from that site. Ever. Be it for a game I love OR a game I hate.

UGH! The flame wars from both sides make me facepalm so hard! Good grief! Really? I didn't hate DA2, and I cringe when I see the stupidity leveled at it. And vice versa for Witcher2. Geeze...

[Drachasor]

Zanallen wrote...

Drachasor wrote...

Obviously you've never taken a survey or been to a hospital.

Done both, actually. Now are you talking about those "Rate how you feel on a scale of 1-10" things? That crap shopuld have been faded out a long time ago. Its about as scientific as clapping to determine how you feel. Plus, it is completely subjective on the value a given individual attributes to each number and their own person enjoyment.

It's actually extremely useful.  Yes, what rating a given pain probably gives does very from person to person, but that doesn't make it worthless, far from it.  Both in aggregate and on an individual level it is extremely handy.

[Persephone]

Drachasor wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Drachasor wrote...

Obviously you've never taken a survey or been to a hospital.

Done both, actually. Now are you talking about those "Rate how you feel on a scale of 1-10" things? That crap shopuld have been faded out a long time ago. Its about as scientific as clapping to determine how you feel. Plus, it is completely subjective on the value a given individual attributes to each number and their own person enjoyment.

It's actually extremely useful.  Yes, what rating a given pain probably gives does very from person to person, but that doesn't make it worthless, far from it.  Both in aggregate and on an individual level it is extremely handy.

Why should I trust a bunch of strangers over forming my own opinion again? Right, I won't. Didn't with DAII or TWII or any game. Metacritic, both its user score and critics' score doesn't matter to me at all. These people aren't me. To my wallet......."My opinion is the one that matters!"....sorry. (Couldn't resist the quote)

[Drachasor]

Persephone wrote...
Just compare these (Written in 2 1/2 months, most in the first week) to the WAY LESS reviews DAO got in almost 2 YEARS. Those numbers alone show how skewed the ratings are on that site. (And the DAII vs. TWII flamewars aren't helping any). And then you have people ADMITTING to hate campaigning against it around release day. I will never trust a single user score from that site. Ever. Be it for a game I love OR a game I hate.

Different games get different numbers of reviews at different rates, how does that show they are skewed?  Metacritic wasn't used as muchwhen DA:O came out and more people bought DA2 in the first week than bought DA:O in the first week.

And I am not saying "trust a single user score."  I am saying the aggregate is pretty good, which it is.  DA2 is simply not a very good game.  It was rushed and it really shows with such shoddy elements like recycled maps.

[Drachasor]

Persephone wrote...
Why should I trust a bunch of strangers over forming my own opinion again? Right, I won't. Didn't with DAII or TWII or any game. Metacritic, both its user score and critics' score doesn't matter to me at all. These people aren't me. To my wallet......."My opinion is the one that matters!"....sorry. (Couldn't resist the quote)

So you buy a game and play it before you decided whether it is worth buying?  I don't see how that helps your wallet.

All I am saying is the aggregate is user reviews is pretty useful for getting an idea of how good the game is.  Nothing like that is ever going to be perfect, but that doesn't mean it can't be pretty good.

[Persephone]

Drachasor wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Just compare these (Written in 2 1/2 months, most in the first week) to the WAY LESS reviews DAO got in almost 2 YEARS. Those numbers alone show how skewed the ratings are on that site. (And the DAII vs. TWII flamewars aren't helping any). And then you have people ADMITTING to hate campaigning against it around release day. I will never trust a single user score from that site. Ever. Be it for a game I love OR a game I hate.

Different games get different numbers of reviews at different rates, how does that show they are skewed?  Metacritic wasn't used as muchwhen DA:O came out and more people bought DA2 in the first week than bought DA:O in the first week.

And I am not saying "trust a single user score."  I am saying the aggregate is pretty good, which it is.  DA2 is simply not a very good game.  It was rushed and it really shows with such shoddy elements like recycled maps.

Oh puleaaaaaaaaze. It's "pretty good" to you because that's how you personally feel. I don't buy the DAII score any more than I buy the TW2 +++++++++++++++ score. (And I adore TW2) Metacritic is Troll Haven to me. Nothing more.

[Persephone]

Drachasor wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Why should I trust a bunch of strangers over forming my own opinion again? Right, I won't. Didn't with DAII or TWII or any game. Metacritic, both its user score and critics' score doesn't matter to me at all. These people aren't me. To my wallet......."My opinion is the one that matters!"....sorry. (Couldn't resist the quote)

So you buy a game and play it before you decided whether it is worth buying?  I don't see how that helps your wallet.

All I am saying is the aggregate is user reviews is pretty useful for getting an idea of how good the game is.  Nothing like that is ever going to be perfect, but that doesn't mean it can't be pretty good.

I read what the devs say. I watch game playing footage and trailers. If I am still unsure, I rent it first. Got burned once or twice, but I'll not base anything on another's opinion. A stranger's opinion, no less. If that were so, I'd have to buy the popular idea that Anna Netrebko is the next Maria Callas, such a popular, shiny bandwagon to hop on. No way in hell.

[upsettingshorts]

To me a game is either Interesting or Not Interesting. If it's Interesting, I buy it. It it's Not Interesting, I don't.

Since only a few games interest me, buying them - even on preorder without reviews - doesn't really put too big of a dent in my wallet, ultimately. But it does mean that I get to judge the games that interest me for myself.

If I wanted to buy more games than I do, I'd probly have to change that approach. But I don't. And DA3 will probly interest me. Unless it's, I dunno, been changed into a console-exclusive platformer or something.

That being said, yay for more Dragon Age. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 mai 2011 - 06:01 .

[Drachasor]

Persephone wrote...
Oh puleaaaaaaaaze. It's "pretty good" to you because that's how you personally feel. I don't buy the DAII score any more than I buy the TW2 +++++++++++++++ score. (And I adore TW2) Metacritic is Troll Haven to me. Nothing more.

It matches up with objective measures of quality (within a point or two) as best I can tell.  DA2 is objectively substandard with its recylced maps, poorly balanced combat, 3 acts that have stories which don't link that well together, choices that don't matter, plot holes, etc, etc.  That many problems marks it as below average.  Now even below average games will typically have their finds, but that doesn't make those games good.

Below average games on metacritic always seem to get bad aggregate user scores as far as I have seen.  Good games get high scores.  Exceptions surely exist where the number of people voting is very small, but beyond that metacritic seems to do a pretty good job.  That doesn't mean you'll like a game that scores highly, of course, as different people have different tastes.  I trust we can all distinguish between liking something and the quality of that thing.

[Drachasor]

Persephone wrote...
I read what the devs say. I watch game playing footage and trailers. If I am still unsure, I rent it first. Got burned once or twice, but I'll not base anything on another's opinion. A stranger's opinion, no less. If that were so, I'd have to buy the popular idea that Anna Netrebko is the next Maria Callas, such a popular, shiny bandwagon to hop on. No way in hell.

Not saying you have to have the same likes and dislikes as the aggregate whole.  I am merely saying the aggregate like/dislike is a useful measure to have handy and metacritic seems to do a decent job at capturing it (at least when you compare scores to quality).

[Persephone]

Drachasor wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Oh puleaaaaaaaaze. It's "pretty good" to you because that's how you personally feel. I don't buy the DAII score any more than I buy the TW2 +++++++++++++++ score. (And I adore TW2) Metacritic is Troll Haven to me. Nothing more.

It matches up with objective measures of quality (within a point or two) as best I can tell.  DA2 is objectively substandard with its recylced maps, poorly balanced combat, 3 acts that have stories which don't link that well together, choices that don't matter, plot holes, etc, etc.

Objectively substandard.......in your opinion. And no matter how many times you quote those supposedly set in stone failings, I'll still only agree with the recycled maps.

[Persephone]

Drachasor wrote...

Persephone wrote...
I read what the devs say. I watch game playing footage and trailers. If I am still unsure, I rent it first. Got burned once or twice, but I'll not base anything on another's opinion. A stranger's opinion, no less. If that were so, I'd have to buy the popular idea that Anna Netrebko is the next Maria Callas, such a popular, shiny bandwagon to hop on. No way in hell.

Not saying you have to have the same likes and dislikes as the aggregate whole.  I am merely saying the aggregate like/dislike is a useful measure to have handy and metacritic seems to do a decent job at capturing it (at least when you compare scores to quality).

What's quality to ME need not be quality to YOU. The greatest artists are actually those who POLARIZE. Again, Maria Callas. Best example. She is as passionately reviled as she is adored.

[Drachasor]

Persephone wrote...
Objectively substandard.......in your opinion. And no matter how many times you quote those supposedly set in stone failings, I'll still only agree with the recycled maps.

It IS objectively substandard.  This is further supported by all the people in development talking about how they had to rush everything out.  If you want to ignore the fact the three acts don't link together well into a proper story, or that the game is full of plot holes, or that there are a bunch of skills that aren't good and others that are OP, that there are far fewer meaningful decisions compared to previous Bioware games, etc, etc...that's your call.  That doesn't magically make those failing disappear.  They might not bother you, but they are certainly there.

[Drachasor]

Persephone wrote...
What's quality to ME need not be quality to YOU. The greatest artists are actually those who POLARIZE. Again, Maria Callas. Best example. She is as passionately reviled as she is adored.

Regarding this I believe we are largely arguing semantics.  The fact people have different opinions does not mean that an aggregate of opinions is useless.

[erynnar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

To me a game is either Interesting or Not Interesting. If it's Interesting, I buy it. It it's Not Interesting, I don't.

Since only a few games interest me, buying them - even on preorder without reviews - doesn't really put too big of a dent in my wallet, ultimately. But it does mean that I get to judge the games that interest me for myself.

If I wanted to buy more games than I do, I'd probly have to change that approach. But I don't. And DA3 will probly interest me. Unless it's, I dunno, been changed into a console-exclusive platformer or something.

That being said, yay for more Dragon Age. 

No, no, no! Upsettingshorts! That's too logical! It makes too much sense!

I've said before, I'll say it again, we may not always agree with each other, but I do think you all are some of the most fun and interesting people to hang out with.  Smart people, are fun.

[Arthur Cousland]

I read the ign article.  Hopefully it doesn't come out before DA2 receives some patching (DA1 could use one too), and more dlc or an expansion.

Bioware shouldn't be releasing 3 Dragon Age games in 6 years if they keep getting released full of bugs and have an overall feeling like they could have used more development time.  That's EA for you.

[Rockpopple]

So in order for Dragon Age 3 to be succesfull:

Make Hawke either a guy or a girl. Since he'll be doing a lot of screwing, it'd probably be safer for him to be a guy. Don't wanna emasculate all those male gamers, after-all.

Get rid of the party members, since you're gonna be using the Red engine. You *are* gonna be using the Red engine. Or if you really really wanna keep something as quaint and antiquated as party members, make the completely CPU controlled. They can go do something... over there. The MC is the important one.

T & A by the bucketful. The perkier the better. Don't dare so as much as the MC's ass, but we gotta see it all. Make sure the carpet matches the drapes and all that. After-all, if you're gonna have the MC screw everything under the sun, it's gonna look silly if we don't see that hot thrusting action.

Everything else can be like Dragon Age 2, basically. You can shorten the game by 10 hours and nobody will give a crap with the above intact.

Boom. GOTY? The Century, perhaps? Time... will tell.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Until they confirm how long they are going to take this time and how much resources they are going to put in it, the news is only going to get a solid "meh" from me for now.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Alistairlover94 wrote...
and if they got rid of Hawke. Worst. RPG PC. Ever.

Oh heck yea, I don't want to see that pile of fail ever again.

[KennethAFTopp]

Hawke was a little bit a punk

[Mr.House]

I'm looking forward to DA3 more then ME3, though how I will be looking forward to it depends on the development time, the playable character(I like Hawke, but I rather have someone new) and the overall design of the game.