654 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

foogoo wrote...

Wivvix wrote...

I'm almost certain it will be rushed. I doubt Bioware has even had time to really contemplate how to move forward from DA2, much less make the significant changes needed to go back to DAO, reinvent, and onwards from there.

DA2 is done, DLC's for DA2 can be easily made doesn't matter what they make. They'll be busy with Star Wars: The Old Republic and ME3 this year, after ME3 comes out Q1 of 2012 they'll make ME3 DLC's, then they can focus on DA3 so doubtful DA3 will come out 2012. DA3 ain't gonna be rushed, no reason to cuz the star wars MMO is gonna bring in cash for Bioware which can then be used to fund DA3 to perfection like what WoW did to Blizzard.

Err, no. Assuming TOR doesn't flop (which it will, but let's say it doesn't) any of those profits will go to further development of TOR and then buying John Riccitiello a fourth Ferrari. Why push out a huge game on a big budget with mediocre profit margin when you can dump shovelware made on a miniscule budget with a much larger margin? This is the real tragedy of Dragon Age 2; no matter how poorly it was received, the short production time and low budget production value virtually guaranteed that even with piddling 1 million sales, it's guaranteed to be profitable. 

[MonkeyLungs]

Bioware has a really difficult time patching console games. It's a constant struggle for them to actually fix issues. Alot of things were never fixed from Awakenings and Origins and now patching up DA2 is seemingly an everest like challenge for them as they are only finally close to releasing the second console patch.

MMO's are customer service nightmares. The fact that is takes them months to patch a console game is enough of a reason for me to avoid TOR.

[marshalleck]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Bioware has a really difficult time patching console games. It's a constant struggle for them to actually fix issues. Alot of things were never fixed from Awakenings and Origins and now patching up DA2 is seemingly an everest like challenge for them as they are only finally close to releasing the second console patch.

MMO's are customer service nightmares. The fact that is takes them months to patch a console game is enough of a reason for me to avoid TOR.

Truth, although there is all the red-tape which comes with trying to release a patch on two different console networks. They won't have to wait for approval from Microsoft or Sony to push a patch out for TOR; that said, I generally agree that Bioware has a poor history of patching and bug fixing, which is inexcusable. 

[Ariella]

In Exile wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
Thats bull**** and you know it. Even if TW2 is largely about geralt regaining his memory; its still a better game and story than DA2.

Which, of course, it isn't (eta: TW2 being about Geralt's memory, I mean). The memory is just a thread throughout Geralt's adventure. It's his series spanning side-quest, of sorts. It was also a very cool use of artwork; like DA2, except, you know, more personal. Because Geralt was narrating.

I actually liked the animation from DA2 rather than that from TW2. DA2 looks like a Dark Ages tapestry come to life where as the memory segments look like they come from a comic book. For me it's a jarring style different, in an otherwise decent game.

[draken-heart]

 everyone, quit looking at DA 2 with you RPG goggles on. the game was a FRAMED narrative. you choices did matter in determining how the world got to be on the brink of war. and look at it this way if Hawke had not been there:

• The deeproads expedition might not have gotten going
• The qunari may have destroyed kirkwall looking the the relic Isabela needs to save herself
• Meredith would have destroyed the circle there proving that the templars are these invulnerable anti-magister heroes and the revolutions would not have happened.

the acts did not mesh together because each act was about a different problem in Kirkwall:

• ACT 1) get money up to get into deeproads expedition
• ACT 2) The qunari threat
• ACT 3) MAGE-TEMPLAR CONFLICT

so you see that the game is good as is IF you look at it how it was made, TELLING THE STORY OF SOME GUY/GIRL WHO BECAME CHAMPION AND PROVRED THAT EVEN THE MOST POWERFUL OF THE TEMPLARS ARE STILL MORTAL AND CAN BE KILLED.  

Modifié par draken-heart, 27 mai 2011 - 05:32 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Merced652 wrote...

Thats bull**** and you know it. Even if TW2 is largely about geralt regaining his memory; its still a better game and story than DA2. 

Does that make it any less of a prologue to TW3?

No.

So, I mean, if you really *want* to make it out to look like I'm just defending DA2 for the sake of it, I guess you could.

[In Exile]

Bryy_Miller wrote..

Does that make it any less of a prologue to TW3?

No.

So, I mean, if you really *want* to make it out to look like I'm just defending DA2 for the sake of it, I guess you could.

I think TW2 can work as a standalone much better than DA2 can, because you get a kind of satisfaction. I didn't feel like TW2 ended on a cliff hanger. There were unresolved threads and a sequel hook, for overall with a resolution with Letho and the kingslaying, it felt complete.

Had we met Cassandra, maybe DA2 could have come some way to dealing with that.

[Corto81]

draken-heart wrote...

 everyone, quit looking at DA 2 with you RPG goggles on.

But, but...
It's suppose to be an RPG?

[Yrkoon]

It was advertized as an RPG. It was sold to us as an RPG. It was labeled as a sequel to an RPG. So no, I'm *not* going to suspend reality just so that I can see DA2 in some make-believe 'better light'. Silly to even suggest we do such a thing.

[Kroepoek]

Corto81 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

 everyone, quit looking at DA 2 with you RPG goggles on.

But, but...
It's supposed to be an RPG?

[draken-heart]

 everyone is complaining about many things, first off its not an RPG as you guys think. it is mini RPGs within a framed Narrative about a person.

i ahve been saying if you quit seeing it as a failiure of an RPG and see it as a tale of a person as well as an RPG you will see that the game is as good as any REAL RPG.

Real RPG: central plot-peripheral focus on the main character
DA2: TALE ABOUT A CENTRAL CHARACTER-PERIPHERAL FOCUS ON A PLOT

the sooner that people realize that this is a different type of RPG than the ones you know as, the better the game looks.

DID ANY OF YOU LISTEN TO THE DEVS, THEY DID ADVERTISE IT AS FRAMED NARRATIVE TELLING A TALE.

sure the game looks buggy and is bad at what it is doing, but what game is not like that when it starts out.

i guess i am saying to not look at from a gaming perspective and look at it from a story side of things

• Game has a good story-telling the tale of how one person influenced the start the multi-circle revolt
• also had a bad gameplay because of that though.

Modifié par draken-heart, 27 mai 2011 - 03:17 .

[draken-heart]

 If you do not understand that try this:

• if we were to control Alistair instead of the warden in Origins would it still work? yes, you know why? The story is about the blight not a single person.
• if we were to control a nother person in DA2 would it work? no, and why? The story is about a specific person, one who was there and who influenced the start of the war that is coming. 

[neppakyo]

DA2 was about Varric and Anders. Hawke was irrelevant to the plot. He/she was there for the player to do something during the commercial breaks.

[draken-heart]

 but Varrric was telling the tale of HAWKE.

All anders did was blow up the Chantry, which would only have affected kirkwall had HAWKE not been there to take down Meredith, proving that the templars can be defeated and giving the circles a reason to go ahead with breaking away from the chantry.

The sooner that you guys realise that what anders did would not have affected the rest of thedas without hawke being there, the better the game looks.

i am done arguing with you all, i will still buy DA3 as long as the storyline fits with the universe's current point: MAGE-TEMPLAR WAR

Modifié par draken-heart, 27 mai 2011 - 04:09 .

[Yrkoon]

The fact that it's a framed narrative makes no relevant difference at all. RPGs are defined by plot choice and  a focus on the  protagonist. You can have a framed Narrative that still has tons of Both. The Witcher 2 does it and does it masterfully (for example).

So no, using the "it's a framed narrative!" retort as an excuse to explain  why DA2 fails as an RPG is... silly.

And PS: we've all played the damn game, m'kay? Stop pretending that you've "seen" something in it that we all haven't already noticed ourselves.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 mai 2011 - 05:47 .

[draken-heart]

 fine forget that whole argument and focus on the fact that IT IS A GAME AND WAS RELEASED THE WAY IT WAS SO QUIT BEING SO MAD AT IT AND JUST ENJOY THE GAME'S STORYLINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

so the game is fine as an RPG people are just hung up on all the problems withit to see that. You all need to loosen up.

in case you guys do not get it from what im saying, GAMES HAVE P)ROBLEMS IN THEM, WE ALL KNOW THAT, GIVE UP THE ARGUING OVER IT AND JUST KEEP PLAYING THE GAME. in other words-ITS JUST THE WAY THE GAME WAS MADE.

plus if you think about it, your origins choices led to the same outcomes anyway, except nature of the beast and broken circle-Dwarves are still recruited into the army to fight the blight, ferelden is still united to fight the blight, and the archdemon is still killed and the blight defeated "before it began".

games have issues with them, and nothing will get rid of them because...THATS HOW THE GAME WAS MADE, all we can do is deal with them as we catch them. all giving time to develop the game does is give the game a release with as few bugs as possible. FIX ONE PROBLEM MORE POP UP IN ITS PLACE. nothing patches and updates can't do, so i'd say if a 2012 release happens, that is fine for me.

Modifié par draken-heart, 27 mai 2011 - 07:42 .

[draken-heart]

 Lets look at DA2 this way:

What did Anders do? Blow up a chantry
did this change Thedas? not unless hawke was there to defeat meredith, proving that the templars can be defied and defeated

Anders blowing up the chantry without hawke being there to fight meredith would have just proven that the templars are these invulnerable heroes protecting the common man from the dangers of magic

of course none of this would have happened if hawke had not been there to help out with the expedition which means no lyrium idol for meredith=no Souledge (Meredith)

to quote the DA2 wiki page 

"Hawke is involved in a course of actions that will change the world forever.

Modifié par draken-heart, 27 mai 2011 - 08:18 .

[Yrkoon]

draken-heart wrote...

 fine forget that whole argument and focus on the fact that IT IS A GAME AND WAS RELEASED THE WAY IT WAS SO QUIT BEING SO MAD AT IT AND JUST ENJOY THE GAME'S STORYLINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except that even the storyline isn't.  It's 3 story lines.  Barely even related to each other, and containing humongous gaps in between  that aren't filled at all.

draken-heart wrote...
so the game is fine as an RPG people are just hung up on all the problems withit to see that. You all need to loosen up.

You're stating an opinion as fact.  And if you want  to really simplify/loosen things then let me give you a response you won't be able to counter: Press a button and something awesome happens -- IS NOT  THE NATURE OF RPGS.  Never was, and never will be.  It's the nature of shooters, and action games.    Which means that  bioware  themselves   were  deliberately  *trying* to create some silly hybrid... not a real RPG.

And it doesn't matter anyway.  Even if I were to  say that I LOVED DA2, it wouldn't be because of its RPG elements, or its story.  It would be because of.... other things.  The steroid-juiced combat, perhaps.

draken-heart wrote...
plus if you think about it, your origins choices led to the same outcomes anyway, except nature of the beast and broken circle-Dwarves are still recruited into the army to fight the blight, ferelden is still united to fight the blight, and the archdemon is still killed and the blight defeated "before it began".

The fact that you had a choice of 6  different Origins  already proves the point.  And even that is just icing.  You  also had significant choice with every single one of the treaty plots as well  (Mage or Templar,  Werewolves or elves, Bhalen or Harromount or Golems).  You even got to choose whether or not you defiled the Ashes.  You got to choose whether or not  to save Redcliffe.   Significant things like that.  None of that silly, repeated  faux-choice of  "well, should I side with the apostate, or should I turn him in"  Nonsense that  DA2 presented over and over and over again.   Don't even try to compare Origins with DA2 on this front.

draken-heart wrote...
games have issues with them, and nothing will get rid of them because...THATS HOW THE GAME WAS MADE

Which is why when I criticise the game, I criticise  HOW IT WAS MADE.  Ie. the design decisions.  And yeah,   some games are just garbage by design.  Sticking  our heads in the sand and being satisfied with Garbage may be what you're advocating we do.    But sorry, some of us are a wee bit less.... accepting.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 mai 2011 - 08:28 .

[draken-heart]

 like i said the choices only aided in determining who aided you in defeating the blight

redcliffe choice does not matter: Redcliff will still aid you

Belehn or Harrowmont only affect one quest in DA2: Dwarves still aid you in the blight

only the choice of origin matters who the warden is.

and who would defile the ashes anyway the axe you get from killing kolgrim is better than a stupid specilization anyway and the epilogue slides are stupid anyway most likely just rumors or happening in the distant future, nothing you see outside of the epilogue so you can't prove you are right either

in both games the choices you make only serve to get you closer to the endgame origins-archdemon DA2-Last Straw quest

Modifié par draken-heart, 27 mai 2011 - 08:31 .

[Yrkoon]

draken-heart wrote...

 like i said the choices only aided in determining who aided you in defeating the blight

But even THAT is missing from DA2.  And that's my point.      I sided with Orsino.   Did he help me fight Merideth?  Oh Hell No.  He turned into some silly looking monster and I had to fight HIM.


Again, don't even compare DA:O with DA2 on this  front.  There's simply  NO WAY to spin things and make DA2 look good  when  it comes to the subject of choices.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 mai 2011 - 08:32 .

[draken-heart]

 im not trying to spin either any way to make DA2 look good i admit it has flaws-i just said that it was how the game was made

DA2-mage side: orsino sees his dead friends while fighting the templars and snaps-turning to bloodmagic and this is why he cant help you

DA2-templar side:he is backed into a corner and believes doing what he did would save him

your choice at the end does determine why the mages rebel against the chantry

mage: proof that the templars can be defied
templars: symbol of mage oppression

sure there are more choices in origins, but do not take them as real proof that your choices matter, th epeilogue sides may very well be rumors and not true whatsoever

and besides you all are doing the same thing complaining about the lack of choice in the game.

it appears we will never see eye-to-eye so lets agree to disagree, ok ser.

Modifié par draken-heart, 27 mai 2011 - 08:51 .

[Yrkoon]

draken-heart wrote...

 im not trying to spin either any way to make DA2 look good i admit it has flaws-i just said that it was how the game was made

Likewise, Me and many, many others on this thread are here to discuss how awefully the game was made/is.

So... what's your argument again?  Oh that's right.  You don't have one.  Countering a stated flaw in the game by saying "well, that's how it was made!".... is not an argument.  It's a  pointless redundancy.

[draken-heart]

*sighs* yrkoon lets just agree to disagree. lets just let them make DA3 ok and if it gets rushed, they will try to fix it with patches/updates, OK.

you and many others say it stinks myself and a few other enjoyed it despite the flaws, they are just opinions both supported by the way the game was made

i have given up on arguing with you all by the time that deal came up, i was just stating a fact that the game has these bugs/plotholes and people do not like the way the game "feels" because the game was rushed, while i like the game in spite of it all.

Modifié par draken-heart, 27 mai 2011 - 09:14 .

[foogoo]

@draken-heart

DA2 would have been better if it had more depth. It's half baked. Clearly it was a rushed game. I went back to play DAO again you could tell how far ahead DAO was in terms of of effort, quantity, and quality. I still enjoyed DA2, but it doesn't deserve the title Dragon Age 2. It just can't get past DLC status, if it was a DAO DLC called "The Adventures of Kirkwall" then that would have been acceptable/forgivable. I don't think they'll rush DA3, I think they are gonna pamper it to make up for DA2.

[draken-heart]

 well that woud take what 4 maybe 5 years to develop, i do not  think they will see much of a player base by that release as people get bored waiting for a good game they turn to other games for passing the time and cause them to leave the game they were waiting for to enjoy that game.

you must understand that a lot of the player base play this and other games, so bioware needs to work hard getting their games out there

it would be like this:

EA: its been four years and you are still not done with DA3
Bioware: the fans do not wan-
EA: THATS IT, BOX UP DA3 AN FIND ANOTH PROJECT!

Modifié par draken-heart, 27 mai 2011 - 10:57 .