237 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Phoenix]

LorDC wrote...

I always wondered how people tend to make arguments like "Blah-blah-blah Shepard didn't break the law" or like "Blah-blah-blah Shepard is Spectre so Alliance can't arrest and judge him". Where do you live guys? Countries only care about the law when it suits their needs. Neither formal nor factual crime is needed to get your ass into the jail. If Alliance or Council will want put Shepard under the trial the only thing that will be required is o catch him.

Exactly. Even if we assume that the Council is fine with the mass murder, someone will have to bring Shepard for questioning regardless. Shepard's Spectre status only works in the Council's domain and is not and never will be the same in the eyes of non-Council races. Why anyone should recognize the same authority that other people do is a question that doesn't even stand up to contemporary politics.

[Aumata]

03/27/2011 - Galactic Economy Hit Hard By Widespread Traffic Delays
“Commerce took a plunge yesterday as galaxy-wide traffic delays ground transport and finance to a halt. "I'd estimate we lost 612-billion credits across the galaxy," says macroeconomics expert Dora Voke, "and we would have easily doubled those losses if it wasn't for the asari business holiday." While traffic flow between relays is back to normal, the effects are still being felt by commuters and vacationers. "Unbelievable," says Roman Basee, a citizen from Mars who was taking his first holiday in eight years. "The starline says they'll rebook, but it's just crazy that everything can grind to a halt. The Citadel's got to make sure this doesn't happen!"”

This was a result of just some one tampering with a Mass Relay, Shepard blew one up. Huge ass delays, crippling economies, everyone will be busy trying to figure out what the hell just happen to the Alpha relay. That and instigating a war with the Alliance and the Hegemony. Mass Murder, destruction of a hospitable planet, destruction of limited resources. Shepard just outdid Saren, attacking Eden Prime. Your right Shepard didn't break Council laws, he out right raped it, and the entire galaxy.

[ddv.rsa]

OmegaXI wrote...


The Alliance will not give Shepard up to the batarian to placate them, just like they didn't charge anyone for what happened on Torfon.

Except that the siege of Torfan wasn't a crime, so there was no reason to charge anyone. Blowing up a relay and destroying an entire system is a different story.

[Dave666]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

LorDC wrote...

I always wondered how people tend to make arguments like "Blah-blah-blah Shepard didn't break the law" or like "Blah-blah-blah Shepard is Spectre so Alliance can't arrest and judge him". Where do you live guys? Countries only care about the law when it suits their needs. Neither formal nor factual crime is needed to get your ass into the jail. If Alliance or Council will want put Shepard under the trial the only thing that will be required is o catch him.

Exactly. Even if we assume that the Council is fine with the mass murder, someone will have to bring Shepard for questioning regardless. Shepard's Spectre status only works in the Council's domain and is not and never will be the same in the eyes of non-Council races. Why anyone should recognize the same authority that other people do is a question that doesn't even stand up to contemporary politics.

I always find it wierd that people say Shepard will have to answer for it when there's shoddy evidence at best that Shepard was even involved at all.

Court:  We have video footage of you breaking someone out of a Batarian prison.

Shepard:  That video has been doctored, I was never there.

Court:  A witness managed to make it through the Relay before it blew up and claims that they saw the Normandy.

Shepard:  They're lying.

Court:  We find insufficient evidence.  Case dismissed.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Dave666 wrote...

I always find it wierd that people say Shepard will have to answer for it when there's shoddy evidence at best that Shepard was even involved at all.

Court:  We have video footage of you breaking someone out of a Batarian prison.

Shepard:  That video has been doctored, I was never there.

Court:  A witness managed to make it through the Relay before it blew up and claims that they saw the Normandy.

Shepard:  They're lying.

Court:  We find insufficient evidence.  Case dismissed.

It only matters that Shepard is brought in. How the trial itself plays out is rather irrelevant. The very act of bringing Shepard in is in and of itself a gesture of retaliation, and quite frankly, it's the least that can be done to someone who has literally eradicated an entire system. Moreover, Shepard has enough blood on her hands without the Alpha Relay incident.

[Dave666]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

LorDC wrote...

I always wondered how people tend to make arguments like "Blah-blah-blah Shepard didn't break the law" or like "Blah-blah-blah Shepard is Spectre so Alliance can't arrest and judge him". Where do you live guys? Countries only care about the law when it suits their needs. Neither formal nor factual crime is needed to get your ass into the jail. If Alliance or Council will want put Shepard under the trial the only thing that will be required is o catch him.

Exactly. Even if we assume that the Council is fine with the mass murder, someone will have to bring Shepard for questioning regardless. Shepard's Spectre status only works in the Council's domain and is not and never will be the same in the eyes of non-Council races. Why anyone should recognize the same authority that other people do is a question that doesn't even stand up to contemporary politics.

I always find it wierd that people say Shepard will have to answer for it when there's shoddy evidence at best that Shepard was even involved at all.

Court:  We have video footage of you breaking someone out of a Batarian prison.

Shepard:  That video has been doctored, I was never there.

Court:  A witness managed to make it through the Relay before it blew up and claims that they saw the Normandy.

Shepard:  They're lying.

Court:  We find insufficient evidence.  Case dismissed.

The mission report you gave to Hackett, and Hackett's testimony + history with a known Human radical terrorist group, thats all a tad damning

You mean the Mission Report that Hackett handed back to you?  The one where he said 'I don't need a report to know you did the right thing'?

Hackets testimony?  He's under no obligation to tell anyone, he could claim that he knows nothing about it and if he doesn't tell anyone then how would they know there was anything for him to testify about?

The Human radical terrorist thing?  While I personally don't like Cerberus at all, the Council knew that you were working with them and still offered you reinstatment of your Spectre status.  How is that damning again?

[Dave666]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

LorDC wrote...

I always wondered how people tend to make arguments like "Blah-blah-blah Shepard didn't break the law" or like "Blah-blah-blah Shepard is Spectre so Alliance can't arrest and judge him". Where do you live guys? Countries only care about the law when it suits their needs. Neither formal nor factual crime is needed to get your ass into the jail. If Alliance or Council will want put Shepard under the trial the only thing that will be required is o catch him.

Exactly. Even if we assume that the Council is fine with the mass murder, someone will have to bring Shepard for questioning regardless. Shepard's Spectre status only works in the Council's domain and is not and never will be the same in the eyes of non-Council races. Why anyone should recognize the same authority that other people do is a question that doesn't even stand up to contemporary politics.

I always find it wierd that people say Shepard will have to answer for it when there's shoddy evidence at best that Shepard was even involved at all.

Court:  We have video footage of you breaking someone out of a Batarian prison.

Shepard:  That video has been doctored, I was never there.

Court:  A witness managed to make it through the Relay before it blew up and claims that they saw the Normandy.

Shepard:  They're lying.

Court:  We find insufficient evidence.  Case dismissed.

The mission report you gave to Hackett, and Hackett's testimony + history with a known Human radical terrorist group, thats all a tad damning

You mean the Mission Report that Hackett handed back to you?  The one where he said 'I don't need a report to know you did the right thing'?

Hackets testimony?  He's under no obligation to tell anyone, he could claim that he knows nothing about it and if he doesn't tell anyone then how would they know there was anything for him to testify about?

The Human radical terrorist thing?  While I personally don't like Cerberus at all, the Council knew that you were working with them and still offered you reinstatment of your Spectre status.  How is that damning again?

whoops, forgot the mission report thing. i apologize, it's been a while.
Hackett kinda is under an obligation. He's too honest not to give a testimony, and once the person Shepard breaks out turns is found out to be the doc, i'm sure Hackett is going to be brought into the trial.
Two days passed between the prison break and zero hour, I'm sure the Batarians had already made a fuss about Commander Shepard attacking Batarian territory.
Cerberus is damning because now Shepard is under the spotlight, the prosecution is going to use any and every advantage to make him a monster

I know what you mean, I've been surprised at how few people noticed that part, but basically by handing back the report Hackett gave himself plausible deniability.

As much as I like Hacketts character (Lance Henrickson is just all kinds of awsome) he ain't a paragon of justice.  In ME:1 he had Shep basically assasinate someone in UNC:Negotiation, do you think he then went and shouted from the rooftops about it?  Worst case scenario, someone finds out about Kenson and Hackett says 'She did what?  She wasn't authorised to do that!' and never mentions Shepard at all.  Kenson is dead why not let her take the fall?

Cerberus is tricky for me to defend 'cause I'm most definately not a fan.

[Khran1505]

It's been said a dozen times before but I'd like to voice my own reasoning.

First off, he committed a system-wide genocide. The deaths of over 300'000 Batarians are on his hands and his hands alone (aside from those he killed along the way).

Secondly, while relationships between Humans and Batarians was tense already, this action alone could be taken by the Batarians as an act of war, especially by a Spectre/Alliance soldier. No one in the galaxy can afford war especially with the Reapers on the galaxy's doorstep.

It's not a matter of "laws", it's a matter of instigating a galactic war when it'll ultimately spell both sides' destruction. Shepard knows it, Hackett knows it and by god the entire galaxy will know it when the Reapers arrive.

[Kogaion]

even tho everyone (exept Anderson and  Hackett) belives Shepard to be a nut ...the fact is that he saved billions + the concil (in some playthroughs) in the citadel war...he saved millions AND a whole planet from destruction ..aka Terra Nova ...and now he's judged 'cause he killed 300k batarians??? ..**** batarians this path doesn't add up

Modifié par Kogaion, 20 mai 2011 - 08:36 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Kogaion wrote...

even tho everyone (exept Anderson and  Hackett) belives Shepard to be a nut ...the fact is that he saved billions + the concil (in some playthroughs) in the citadel war...he saved millions AND a whole planet from destruction ..aka Terra Nova ...and now he's judged 'cause he killed 300k batarians??? ..**** batarians this path doesn't add up

It's called irony, and it's SWEET!

[Dave666]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

I know what you mean, I've been surprised at how few people noticed that part, but basically by handing back the report Hackett gave himself plausible deniability.

As much as I like Hacketts character (Lance Henrickson is just all kinds of awsome) he ain't a paragon of justice.  In ME:1 he had Shep basically assasinate someone in UNC:Negotiation, do you think he then went and shouted from the rooftops about it?  Worst case scenario, someone finds out about Kenson and Hackett says 'She did what?  She wasn't authorised to do that!' and never mentions Shepard at all.  Kenson is dead why not let her take the fall?

Cerberus is tricky for me to defend 'cause I'm most definately not a fan.

I said nothing about him being a role model, he'd do anything for victory, but i don't see him lying in court, i see him putting all his cards on the table and arguing the justification.

You don't have to deffend Cerberus from a personal stance, the general public sees them as a bunch of evil, sadistic mad scientists that kill anyone to further their goals, and Shepard's assosiation with them kinda screws him over in a court

Couldn't one just as easilly say that if Hackett would do anything for victory and assuming he believes Shep about the Reapers (which he seems to) then lying about it and claiming it was Kenson seems like a good way to get it all dealt with quickly so that they can focus on the Reaper threat.

Court:  Who was responsible?

Hackett:  Doctor Amanda Kenson.

Court:  Why is she not here before us?

Hackett:  She's dead.

Court:  Oh...Case Dismissed?

[AlexMBrennan]

Saving a civilian today does not entitle Shepard to 0.005, say, free murders in the future. That's not really how law works.

Couldn't one just as easilly say that if Hackett would do anything for victory and assuming he believes Shep about the Reapers (which he seems to) then lying about it and claiming it was Kenson seems like a good way to get it all dealt with quickly so that they can focus on the Reaper threat.

I doubt convicting Kenson posthumously would greatly reduce the baterians desire for revenge.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 20 mai 2011 - 08:44 .

[Dave666]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

I know what you mean, I've been surprised at how few people noticed that part, but basically by handing back the report Hackett gave himself plausible deniability.

As much as I like Hacketts character (Lance Henrickson is just all kinds of awsome) he ain't a paragon of justice.  In ME:1 he had Shep basically assasinate someone in UNC:Negotiation, do you think he then went and shouted from the rooftops about it?  Worst case scenario, someone finds out about Kenson and Hackett says 'She did what?  She wasn't authorised to do that!' and never mentions Shepard at all.  Kenson is dead why not let her take the fall?

Cerberus is tricky for me to defend 'cause I'm most definately not a fan.

I said nothing about him being a role model, he'd do anything for victory, but i don't see him lying in court, i see him putting all his cards on the table and arguing the justification.

You don't have to deffend Cerberus from a personal stance, the general public sees them as a bunch of evil, sadistic mad scientists that kill anyone to further their goals, and Shepard's assosiation with them kinda screws him over in a court

Couldn't one just as easilly say that if Hackett would do anything for victory and assuming he believes Shep about the Reapers (which he seems to) then lying about it and claiming it was Kenson seems like a good way to get it all dealt with quickly so that they can focus on the Reaper threat.

Court:  Who was responsible?

Hackett:  Doctor Amanda Kenson.

Court:  Why is she not here before us?

Hackett:  She's dead.

Court:  Oh...Case Dismissed?

He could, but I honestly cant see Hackett doing that. He'd rather just say the reapers are coming

The problem is laying your cards on the table when you have a good hand is fine.  Laying your cards on the table when you have no cards...not so much.  There's still no evidence that the Reapers exist and are almost here.

[Dave666]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

The problem is laying your cards on the table when you have a good hand is fine.  Laying your cards on the table when you have no cards...not so much.  There's still no evidence that the Reapers exist and are almost here.

The CDN started having news reports about how Mass Relays are too old to have been constructed bt the protheans

Indeed, so now people are questioning 'If the Protheans didn't build them, who did?'  Would that automatically make them think 'Well then, obviously it must have been an immortal race of sentient spaceships bent on the destruction of the Galaxy'?  Or are they more likely to think 'Oh, it must have been a race older than the Protheans that we hadn't thought about'.

[Dave666]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

The problem is laying your cards on the table when you have a good hand is fine.  Laying your cards on the table when you have no cards...not so much.  There's still no evidence that the Reapers exist and are almost here.

The CDN started having news reports about how Mass Relays are too old to have been constructed bt the protheans

Indeed, so now people are questioning 'If the Protheans didn't build them, who did?'  Would that automatically make them think 'Well then, obviously it must have been an immortal race of sentient spaceships bent on the destruction of the Galaxy'?  Or are they more likely to think 'Oh, it must have been a race older than the Protheans that we hadn't thought about'.

True, but it also validates the reaper theory enough to be plausable evidence.

I wouldn't say it validates it as such, more that people after realizing that they've been wrong about the Relays might start questioning things.  The problem is that we the player as Shepard know beyond a doubt that the Reapers are real, but Shepard and co are just given no evidence that we could present to the Galaxy at large and say 'See!  They're real!  Look!'  Without something like that then Hackett basically betraying Shepard and telling people that it was Sheps fault is just dumb.

*Edit*  Even the whole 'But we need to appease the Batarians' argument seems a bit odd to me.  The Reapers are in Batarian space now and its very likely that the next Relay that they head to will also be in Batarian Space. They'll have their own problems and I seriously doubt they'd be 'out for blood', more 'crying for help'.

Modifié par Dave666, 20 mai 2011 - 09:09 .

[SojournerN7]

OmegaXI wrote...
The batarians are not in council space so that means even when Shepard killed off the  Batarians system he did not break any laws in citidal space. So at most he commited a crime againist the batarians who are not longer part of citidal space and there by not protected by any of its laws.

So Shepard didn't break any law or commit any crime againist the Alliance or the council/ citidal races. So he can not be charged with anything for blowing up the relay and killing 300,000+ batarians.

Attacking a terminus systems colony could be seen as an act of war.

Persoanlly, I call it "showing Balak how it's done."

[Rip504]

It's not a crime to kill over 300,000 Batarians! How did this even reach page 3?

[AlexMBrennan]

The problem is that we the player as Shepard know beyond a doubt that the Reapers are real

I don't even think that that's true - the player knows thanks to the omniscient player view (Reapers powering up, etc) but Shepard doesn't (is that a BW favourite? cf Irenicus' and Loghain's schemes); Shepard was told some stuff by Vigil, had some visions and saw an impressive holographic terminal on Virmire.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 20 mai 2011 - 09:26 .