237 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexMBrennan]

The Reapers are in Batarian space now and its very likely that the next Relay that they head to will also be in Batarian Space.

Yes. But that may take them years, and the Batarians won't see the attack coming until they're there. I seriously doubt that they'll come crying for help when an armada of uber dreadnoughts shows up in their system... because they'll be dead

[mav76]

It is very likely that Batarians outside the system know there is human involvement with the Mass Relay being destroyed. No doubt they were informed of the sighting of the original team, the capture of the Dr., and likely the prison break as well (they had two days to pass along that info). Reports from the prison might have also confirmed Shep's presence.

Two days after the prison break the Mass Relay is destroyed, of course the Batarians are going to blame the humans, especially if they know about Shep's presence, someone working with Cerberus. Even without Shep being known, there is no innocent reason for humans to be sneaking around in a Batarian system.

If the Alliance does nothing, the Batarians will have to step up hostilities with the Humans because if they don't, they look like utter weaklings. So the Alliance will give them a show trial and put Shep on display as someone the Bat's can focus their anger on other than the human race in general. For Anderson and Hackett, the trial buys time, as the Batarians will hold off on war to see how the trial turns out, allowing time to find clear evidence of the Reaper threat.

[ddv.rsa]

mav76 wrote...

If the Alliance does nothing, the Batarians will have to step up hostilities with the Humans because if they don't, they look like utter weaklings. So the Alliance will give them a show trial and put Shep on display as someone the Bat's can focus their anger on other than the human race in general. For Anderson and Hackett, the trial buys time, as the Batarians will hold off on war to see how the trial turns out, allowing time to find clear evidence of the Reaper threat.

I don't get how the Batarians are in any position to threaten war. The Batarian Hegemony is a fairly insignificant rogue state. Humanity, on the other hand, is either on the Council (paragon) or is so powerful as to dominate it outright (renegade). Humanity is a superpower. To use a real world example, I think this amounts to North Korea threatening the United States with invasion.

The Alliance leadership for the most part does not believe in the Reaper threat, and the average human knows nothing about it. So the argument of "the galaxy can't afford to be divided" doesn't hold up as a reason to appease them.

The Batarians would be fools to escalate hostilities. If they're (very) lucky they might give humanity a bloody nose before going down, but in the end they're guaranteed a horrible beating.

[008Zulu]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

of course not he just killed 300,000 people, blew up a mass relay, and took out an entire galaxy sure no laws were broken murder is totally legal if you do it where no one is watching you...

1- Batarians are slavers, slavers aren't people.
2- An entire galaxy? It destroyed 1 solar system.
3- The Alpha Relay links (under certain circumstances) with a Citadel access relay. The Council wont be sad to see it gone.

The whole reason Batarians hate us is because we thrashed their puny asses after they invaded us, for the purposes of kidnapping new slaves. They then cried to the Council who ignored them.

That is all the excuse the Batarians would need to invade. If they didn't after that, then they sure as hell wont after Arrival. Our fleets and defences are bigger and stonger, they have only become moreso, the Batarians know this.

[cdzander]

The evidence IS shoddy at best. I know my Shepard wears a helmet that doesn't allow you to see his face. He wasn't carrying a large neon sign pointing down at him saying "Commander Shepard here! Get this on video!" Any video that makes it out of the system, if any, before all the evidence goes kablooey, will show an armored, armed, probably human breaking another human out.

The widely known facts, outside of Hackett and the Normandy crew, are that the relay blew up, taking the system with it. Anything else is speculation. Maybe they know about the asteroid. Someone may have seen it. However if that's the case I would have expected someone to investigate it. It was moving for 2 days and no one noticed? Then they weren't looking.

[KainrycKarr]

OmegaXI wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

OmegaXI wrote...

If they can charge Shepard with blowing up the relay and taking out that system then by those same standards they can charge Shepard for every person he killed in the Terminous systems, everything thing he blew up in the Terminous systems, and every other council law he broke while being in the Terminous systems.

Yes. Yes they can.

(In so much that states can and do have laws in which their citizens can't do illegal things even outside of territory. Jurisdiction goes past territory, even if enforcement often falters.)

And whats more, Shepard listened to the Council (if alive) and kept his activities in the Terminous systems. So not only did he not break any council law but he also followed his orders to keep his activities in the Terminous systems.

His orders, however, did not mandate, encourage, or expect, or pardon mass murder or destruction of a relay.

The Terminous systems do not fall under council law and spectres are abovie the law, and the Council did not tell Shepard he could not do that, they simple told him to keep his activities in the Terminous systems.

open and shut case for Shepard's lawyer.

It doesn't work like that.

If you kill 300,000 citizens of a nation, you *are* going to get reemed no matter WHERE you did it.

In real-life terms, even if you did it in the middle of antactica it'd still be considered mass murder and EVERYONE would be able to try you for it.


And would people please stop using the term genocide? It doesn't apply here.

gen·o·cide[jen-uh-sahyd] –noun the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 21 mai 2011 - 01:04 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

008Zulu wrote...
1- Batarians are slavers, slavers aren't people.
2- An entire galaxy? It destroyed 1 solar system.
3- The Alpha Relay links (under certain circumstances) with a Citadel access relay. The Council wont be sad to see it gone.

The whole reason Batarians hate us is because we thrashed their puny asses after they invaded us, for the purposes of kidnapping new slaves. They then cried to the Council who ignored them.

That is all the excuse the Batarians would need to invade. If they didn't after that, then they sure as hell wont after Arrival. Our fleets and defences are bigger and stonger, they have only become moreso, the Batarians know this.

1. They aren't people? That's how the Holocaust happened so let's not start denying people are people here. That's one of the first steps done when one wishes to eradicate someone.

2. Mis typed on that one but who cares we all know a solar system blowing tohell is still a big deal

3. What they think of destroying an irreplaceable artifact is irrelevant what's in question is can shep be tried for doing it? I'd say yes sense it would be like burning the Mona Lisa

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 21 mai 2011 - 01:06 .

[Dave666]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

The Reapers are in Batarian space now and its very likely that the next Relay that they head to will also be in Batarian Space.

Yes. But that may take them years, and the Batarians won't see the attack coming until they're there. I seriously doubt that they'll come crying for help when an armada of uber dreadnoughts shows up in their system... because they'll be dead

May take them years?  It took the Reapers two years to travel from outside of the Galaxy to the Alpha Relay and one of their known tactics is to shut down the Relays thereby stranding their victims, I'd say its much more likely that their FTL technology leaves ours eating the dust.  Months I could see, but certainly not years.  As I said though the nearest Relay is likely to also be in Batarian space and after a few months when the Reapers get to it then the Batarians are more likely to be crying for help from these mysterious ships that keep decimating everything in their path than being on a warpath with Humanity.

[Dave666]

mrsph wrote...

It takes two months after Arrival for the Reapers to get to Earth.

Which makes the whole 'Trial to appease the Batarians' even more ludicrous.  Something like this getting to Trial within two months?  Hell, it would take longer than that to find evidence (of which there isn't really any).

[Dave666]

mrsph wrote...

It's most likely a show trial anyway.

What I find more realistic would be no Trial at all, merely a closed door hearing with the Alliance Brass.  They ask Shep what the hell happened, but going public with something like this in such a short time seems bizzare at best.

Shepard may have been declared KIA/MIA, but (s)he's still an Alliance Marine and Spectre whatever people might like to think.

[NoUserNameHere]

Given what we know of Citadel beaucracy, killing 300,000 people in peacetime is going to get you scapegoated no matter how many loopholes you've swan dived through.

[AK404]

Killing 300,000 people anywhere would be considered an act of mass murder, as well as a declaration of war. Reason doesn't matter: 300,000 people, most of them non-combatants, are dead.

I know someone has already pulled a Godwin here, but bear with me: a batarian prison is holding a human, then charged with multiple counts of terrorism and sufficient evidence. Common sense says that the colony was already in talks with the homeworld; the human's plans - destroy the mass relay, which would already be a death sentence even if it didn't end up killing 300,000 people because it would isolate that colony from the rest of the galaxy - have already been transmitted to the central government. Doesn't matter if the human is Alliance, Cerberus, or just some random terrorist, all that matters is that the human is human.

Then just hours later, the colony and everyone in it is destroyed. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together: the humans did it, and it doesn't matter what human did it or why, but all of them are going to pay. At this point, does it even matter if the destruction of a mass relay and the death of an entire solar system is actionable under Citadel law, or if the batarians are under the protection of the Council? The batarians are going to be frothing at the mouth, and the Alliance is going to have to throw them some sort of bone if they don't want a full-fledged dirty war on their hands.

Not a cold war like they've been doing now, not even open warfare, but a dirty war. As in, "you blew up one of our colonies using a mass relay? Fine, two can play at that game." Then mass relays start getting destroyed left and right - or someone's going to start tampering with them in an effort to destroy them. Now everyone is in danger of getting screwed, and before this, it wasn't even thought possible to blow one up. You bet your ass the Council is going to be very interested in this, simply because of the potential cluster**** that's about to unlock.

[Dean_the_Young]

mrsph wrote...

It takes two months after Arrival for the Reapers to get to Earth.

Two months after Arrival IF you did Arrival after the suicide mission. If you did it before, then the 'years' part kicks in: ME3 takes place at least a year after the Suicide Mission, because that's when Retribution (canonical) takes place.

[Clonedzero]

if i kill 300,000 people in some random no name country do you think the US government is gonna be cool with that?

[Dave666]

AK404 wrote...

Killing 300,000 people anywhere would be considered an act of mass murder, as well as a declaration of war. Reason doesn't matter: 300,000 people, most of them non-combatants, are dead.

I know someone has already pulled a Godwin here, but bear with me: a batarian prison is holding a human, then charged with multiple counts of terrorism and sufficient evidence. Common sense says that the colony was already in talks with the homeworld; the human's plans - destroy the mass relay, which would already be a death sentence even if it didn't end up killing 300,000 people because it would isolate that colony from the rest of the galaxy - have already been transmitted to the central government. Doesn't matter if the human is Alliance, Cerberus, or just some random terrorist, all that matters is that the human is human.

Then just hours later, the colony and everyone in it is destroyed. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together: the humans did it, and it doesn't matter what human did it or why, but all of them are going to pay. At this point, does it even matter if the destruction of a mass relay and the death of an entire solar system is actionable under Citadel law, or if the batarians are under the protection of the Council? The batarians are going to be frothing at the mouth, and the Alliance is going to have to throw them some sort of bone if they don't want a full-fledged dirty war on their hands.

Not a cold war like they've been doing now, not even open warfare, but a dirty war. As in, "you blew up one of our colonies using a mass relay? Fine, two can play at that game." Then mass relays start getting destroyed left and right - or someone's going to start tampering with them in an effort to destroy them. Now everyone is in danger of getting screwed, and before this, it wasn't even thought possible to blow one up. You bet your ass the Council is going to be very interested in this, simply because of the potential cluster**** that's about to unlock.

Indeed, that Human Kenson, what was she thinking?  Its a shame she died and can't be brought to justice.

The thing that baffles me is how everyone keeps saying 'Shepard destroyed a solar system and needs to face the music'  thats metagaming.  We know that Shepard was responsible, but nobody except Hackett knows that.  So if nobody knows that Shepard was involved why is Shep going to trial again?  As far as anyone's concerned it was Doctor Amanda Kenson who was responsible.

[Dean_the_Young]

If Hacket can claim there's just enough evidence to link Shepard as responsible for the crime, then that's a rather pertinant non-metagaming basis for saying that others can know/realize Shepard was responsible.

So, on one hand, we have Admiral Hacket's word that Shepard's guilt is not hidden. On another, we have... no one in-universe's word that Shepard's guilt is hidden.

[GuardianAngel470]

OmegaXI wrote...

The batarians are not in council space so that means even when Shepard killed off the  Batarians system he did not break any laws in citidal space. So at most he commited a crime againist the batarians who are not longer part of citidal space and there by not protected by any of its laws.

So Shepard didn't break any law or commit any crime againist the Alliance or the council/ citidal races. So he can not be charged with anything for blowing up the relay and killing 300,000+ batarians.

This would be like saying that because Rwanda is outside the US, they didn't break any US laws and therefore the US shouldn't get involved. No matter the fact that hundreds of thousands of people are dying/dead they didn't break any of our laws so we can't do anything.

No, you are wrong. Killing 300,000 people is still punishable by law or at the very least the Spectres. The only thing that in any way supports your case is jurisdiction but even then, there are contingencies that would allow the Alliance to take action.

Like national security.

[Dave666]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

If Hacket can claim there's just enough evidence to link Shepard as responsible for the crime, then that's a rather pertinant non-metagaming basis for saying that others can know/realize Shepard was responsible.

So, on one hand, we have Admiral Hacket's word that Shepard's guilt is not hidden. On another, we have... no one in-universe's word that Shepard's guilt is hidden.

If I'm honest that whole speach smacks of bad writing. Hackett: 'Evidence against you is shoddy at best'.

Me:  Er...What evidence?  I've litterally just got back and I know more about what happened in there than you do.  My Shepard went in there wearing a full helmet and breather mask, I could barely tell it was Shepard, so how in the blazes could anyone else?  Was there some sort of sign hanging above Shepards head that everybody but Shepard could see that said 'the guy in the full helmet is Commander Shepard'?

[Someone With Mass]

Murder on that scale is still wrong, no matter how douchy the victims may be.

[Dean_the_Young]

Or, quite plausibly, you don't know everything there is to know about who knows what. Which when you consider that you were passed out for two days, makes any claim by anyone that they know everything about the situation rather presumptive.

I'll bet against you, and on the possibility that the prison forwarded surveillance footage at some point in the two days between breakout and destruction. Factor that with, say, any FTL communication satelites that could easily have picked up Shepard's last broadcasts to the Normandy before destruction...

[Dave666]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Or, quite plausibly, you don't know everything there is to know about who knows what. Which when you consider that you were passed out for two days, makes any claim by anyone that they know everything about the situation rather presumptive.

I'll bet against you, and on the possibility that the prison forwarded surveillance footage at some point in the two days between breakout and destruction. Factor that with, say, any FTL communication satelites that could easily have picked up Shepard's last broadcasts to the Normandy before destruction...

If Hackett already knew something then why wouldn't he say anything?  All we got from him was 'What the hell happened in there Shepard?  I sent you in to rescue Kenson and you blow up a Relay?'

I don't doubt that footage from the Batarian prison may have been sent to a different system, but whats it going to show?  Kenson escaping with an unidentified person, presumably Human though they can't be sure.

As for Shepards last transmission to the Normandy to get them to pick him up, that happened litterally minutes before the Relay went nova, but yes, thats possible (though given that the Normandy is a stealth ship if Shepard didn't use an encrypted and secure frequency then he's just stupid).

[PrinceLionheart]

OmegaXI wrote...

And whats more, Shepard listened to the Council (if alive) and kept his activities in the Terminous systems. So not only did he not break any council law but he also followed his orders to keep his activities in the Terminous systems.

No, the Council said they would a turn a blind eye to Shepard as long as he didn't bring any attention to himself. Nuking 300,000 batarians/slaves is officially bring attention to himself.