237 réponses à ce sujet

[Nashiktal]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

mrsph wrote...

It takes two months after Arrival for the Reapers to get to Earth.

Two months after Arrival IF you did Arrival after the suicide mission. If you did it before, then the 'years' part kicks in: ME3 takes place at least a year after the Suicide Mission, because that's when Retribution (canonical) takes place.

Not to mention the reapers traveled via relay during those two years. Now they are using FTL, which will take time.

[Dave666]

Nashiktal wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

mrsph wrote...

It takes two months after Arrival for the Reapers to get to Earth.

Two months after Arrival IF you did Arrival after the suicide mission. If you did it before, then the 'years' part kicks in: ME3 takes place at least a year after the Suicide Mission, because that's when Retribution (canonical) takes place.

Not to mention the reapers traveled via relay during those two years. Now they are using FTL, which will take time.

Erm...Do you have a different game to me?  I ask 'cause in mine the Reapers travelled from Dark Space to the Alpha Relay using FTL because they couldn't use a Relay.  Thats why it took two years...

[aTrueFool]

Dave666 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Or, quite plausibly, you don't know everything there is to know about who knows what. Which when you consider that you were passed out for two days, makes any claim by anyone that they know everything about the situation rather presumptive.

I'll bet against you, and on the possibility that the prison forwarded surveillance footage at some point in the two days between breakout and destruction. Factor that with, say, any FTL communication satelites that could easily have picked up Shepard's last broadcasts to the Normandy before destruction...

If Hackett already knew something then why wouldn't he say anything?  All we got from him was 'What the hell happened in there Shepard?  I sent you in to rescue Kenson and you blow up a Relay?'

I don't doubt that footage from the Batarian prison may have been sent to a different system, but whats it going to show?  Kenson escaping with an unidentified person, presumably Human though they can't be sure.

As for Shepards last transmission to the Normandy to get them to pick him up, that happened litterally minutes before the Relay went nova, but yes, thats possible (though given that the Normandy is a stealth ship if Shepard didn't use an encrypted and secure frequency then he's just stupid).

Dr. Kenson: Who are you? What are you doing?

Shepard: Doctor Kenson? I'm Commander Shepard. I'm here to get you out.

Said in a room we know has video cameras filming in it.

[Someone With Mass]

There could've been spy drones in the area that scanned the Normandy.

[Dave666]

aTrueFool wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Or, quite plausibly, you don't know everything there is to know about who knows what. Which when you consider that you were passed out for two days, makes any claim by anyone that they know everything about the situation rather presumptive.

I'll bet against you, and on the possibility that the prison forwarded surveillance footage at some point in the two days between breakout and destruction. Factor that with, say, any FTL communication satelites that could easily have picked up Shepard's last broadcasts to the Normandy before destruction...

If Hackett already knew something then why wouldn't he say anything?  All we got from him was 'What the hell happened in there Shepard?  I sent you in to rescue Kenson and you blow up a Relay?'

I don't doubt that footage from the Batarian prison may have been sent to a different system, but whats it going to show?  Kenson escaping with an unidentified person, presumably Human though they can't be sure.

As for Shepards last transmission to the Normandy to get them to pick him up, that happened litterally minutes before the Relay went nova, but yes, thats possible (though given that the Normandy is a stealth ship if Shepard didn't use an encrypted and secure frequency then he's just stupid).

Dr. Kenson: Who are you? What are you doing?

Shepard: Doctor Kenson? I'm Commander Shepard. I'm here to get you out.

Said in a room we know has video cameras filming in it.

Well spotted and I concede that point.  Still if the option is avaliable then my Shepards claiming that Kenson was behind it and he tried to stop it but Kenson had locked the computers and he couldn't change the trajectory or stop a planet sized asteroid..

[008Zulu]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

1. They aren't people? That's how the Holocaust happened so let's not start denying people are people here. That's one of the first steps done when one wishes to eradicate someone.

2. Mis typed on that one but who cares we all know a solar system blowing tohell is still a big deal

3. What they think of destroying an irreplaceable artifact is irrelevant what's in question is can shep be tried for doing it? I'd say yes sense it would be like burning the Mona Lisa

1- It was not, nor has it ever been, Shepard's intention (expressed or otherwise) to wipe out the Batarian species.

2- Relays are not priceless works of art. While destroying one is a very serious issue, considering the security threat it represented, it could be a justifiable action. No one could say with absolute certainty what would happen if a relay was destroyed anyway, sure it would have been a big bang, but none could predict just how big until someone actually did it.

[oberst2]

you can discustion this to death, in the end will be an jugeing its and political manover frome allience side to stop and war even if sheperd get "death pentalty" still just fake the exsacution and give sheperd and new ideny and aperens chang

[lolwut666]

The point is that wiping out 300.000 batarians along with one of their solar systems will likely start a war with the batarians.

Nobody wants to go to war with anyone, let alone with the batarians, so it's a crime against your own people to start a war they don't want to fight.

[Pride Demon]

Uhm... Actually if I remember correctly, manipulating a relay in any way is against citadel laws, regardless of where the relay is located (see First Contact War)...

Only Shep didn't manipulate it, he/she utterly destoyed it together with a useful star system which contained a garden world (destoying a garden world or disturbing one that is on the verge of developing a personal ecosystem is one of the worst crimes by citadel standards, habitable worlds are at a premium as it is without intentionally crushing them)...
And all this is without mention of the 300000 persons dead there...

So from a technical point of view Shep broke citadel laws, the flip side is that if you are a reinstated spectre you are (again technically) above citadel laws... It remains to be seen how far one can go before being considered rogue (and Shep did quite a scene, to put it mildly)...

Still, if what we heard (and saw in Arrival) about batarian prisons is correct, were I Shep, I'd rather the citadel or the Alliance put me on trial than to end up in one of those (that's taking for granted the Batarian Hegemony would even care to put Shep in prison rather than simply summarily execute him/her)

[AlexMBrennan]

Still, if what we heard (and saw in Arrival) about batarian prisons is correct, were I Shep, I'd rather the citadel or the Alliance put me on trial than to end up in one of those (that's taking for granted the Batarian Hegemony would even care to put Shep in prison rather than simply summarily execute him/her)

YMMV but that comes across as a thinly veiled comment on real world politics. Not sure if that was intentional but it should probably be avoided in either case.

[Vengeful Nature]

008Zulu wrote...

1- Batarians are slavers, slavers aren't people.
2- An entire galaxy? It destroyed 1 solar system.
3- The Alpha Relay links (under certain circumstances) with a Citadel access relay. The Council wont be sad to see it gone.

Right, all batarians are slavers. Just like all Afghans are terrorists.

All of the actions made by the Hegemony are exactly that, made by the Hegemony. The undemocratic and unelected, and therefore unrepresentative government of a nation of perhaps hundreds of billions of people. Given the nature of batarian society, I would think that the vast majority of people in batarian space are oppressed and have no say in the actions of their despotic government. So they are not responsible for anything the Hegemony has done. Sure, the people in power should be targeted with extreme prejudice. But the 300,000 people who died in the Bahak system were just poor schlubs forced to work in terrible conditions on a planet where the air isn't even fully breathable. How are these people responsible for the Mindoir raid, the Skyllian Blitz, Balak's actions on X57, or any other action sponsored by the Hegemony?

The whole reason Batarians hate us is because we thrashed their puny asses after they invaded us, for the purposes of kidnapping new slaves. They then cried to the Council who ignored them.

That is all the excuse the Batarians would need to invade. If they didn't after that, then they sure as hell wont after Arrival. Our fleets and defences are bigger and stonger, they have only become moreso, the Batarians know this.

The whole reason batarians hate us is because the Alliance started shoving it's way into a region of space that they were already developing themselves. Would the US government like it if China starting setting up oil pipelines in Alaska and damn the complaints or consequences? The fact that the Alliance was encouraged by the Council makes it worse, becuase it's like if the UN sided with China in the case I just described.

So, the Hegemony rightfully complain about it to the Council, who promptly tell them to shove it and that the Alliance can have the systems, despite the fact that the Council let the batarians start developing that area in the first place. So they decide to be done with this stupid Council of liars and hypocrites, and what do you know, they suddenly end up with every pirate gang, mercenary group and criminal organisation flooding in through the now wide-open door.

At this point, they're pretty PO'ed. But they know they can't settle the issue through open war because all of Citadel Space will be sicced on them in a heartbeat. So they do the only thing they can to press their argument: they start funneling arms, equipment and money to those very same freeloading pirates, mercs and criminals and encourage them to try and destabilise and disrupt as many Alliance operations in the Skyllian Verge and Attican Traverse as possible, becuaes, hell, no one else is gonna help them. If the Alliance has any sense, they'll pull out of the region and the batarians can have it back. Hell, the very same Council that started this situation by helping this aggressive Alliance won't even help said Alliance, which makes them even worse liars and hypocrites.

You see? This whole situation was started by the Council playing the Alliance off against the Hegemony in the first place, because "damn those government's right, we have a millennia-old status quo to protect".

Clonedzero wrote...

if i kill 300,000 people in some random no name country do you think the US government is gonna be cool with that?

That depends, did the US government tell you to do it?

Edit: stupid format issues.

Modifié par Vengeful Nature, 21 mai 2011 - 11:15 .

[TexasToast712]

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

Instigating a war

Four eyes had it coming ever sinced they burned down my home on Mindoir! BATARIAN BASTARDS!

[Pride Demon]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Still, if what we heard (and saw in Arrival) about batarian prisons is correct, were I Shep, I'd rather the citadel or the Alliance put me on trial than to end up in one of those (that's taking for granted the Batarian Hegemony would even care to put Shep in prison rather than simply summarily execute him/her)

YMMV but that comes across as a thinly veiled comment on real world politics. Not sure if that was intentional but it should probably be avoided in either case.

Uhm... In what way is this a comment on real world politics? I hardly ever talk about real politics in RL, much less put criptic hints about it when talking about a game...

I'm merely stating what Zaeed told us in game... If in their prisons the only options are either "smashing your head open against a wall or shooting everything between you and the exit" they definitely are not good places, much less after you see in Arrival Kenson was being deliberately torured...

If my comment comes across as offensive, I apologize deeply (to the forum and to you of course), but everything I said was totally pointed to what the game showed us, one should not read to much into things...
As I said in another topic I never mix fiction and real life, not healthy and too many bad strings attached... :/

Anyway, sorry if I offended, but truly there was nothing in my post the meant anything more than what I said...
Also sorry for slight OT, but I'd rather clear things up immediately, instead of leaving a bad impression on you and other forumites...

[Wulfram]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

Instigating a war

Four eyes had it coming ever sinced they burned down my home on Mindoir! BATARIAN BASTARDS!

I wouldn't recommend that defence strategy

[LGTX]

Look at the facts given in the game. In ME1, you are told that sending a fleet (just SENDING IT) in the Terminus Systems can trigger a war. Destroying an entire system and killing 300,000 batarians might just do that. Regardless of laws and jurisdiction, if you become a war catalyst, your government has the right to call you in and ask just what the hell were you thinking.

And the last time I heard, the trial takes place on Earth, not the Citadel. I don't think the council is involved at all. And I don't think the Alliance has laws similar to today's Earth, since most of the arguments I see are based on that.

[ddv.rsa]

Wulfram wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

Instigating a war

Four eyes had it coming ever sinced they burned down my home on Mindoir! BATARIAN BASTARDS!

I wouldn't recommend that defence strategy

This comment was made in jest, but there is actually a valid point here. The Batarian government has been sponsoring acts of terrorism against humanity for decades. But the terrorists were just "misguided individuals", not officialy acting on behalf of the Hegemony.  So no one could do anything.

The first time the Batarians are on the receiving end, they want to cry like babies and threaten war. Arrival wasn't an act of terrorism, but did they really expect they could sponsor terrorism against humanity with impunity, never getting a taste of their own medicine?

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 21 mai 2011 - 12:57 .

[General User]

There's alot to that. The batarians have a whole heap of bad karma headed their way. The events of Arrival are part of that

[Banzboy]

Shepard killing 300,000 batarians, seems so forced and unlike shepard.

[Dean_the_Young]

Dave666 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Or, quite plausibly, you don't know everything there is to know about who knows what. Which when you consider that you were passed out for two days, makes any claim by anyone that they know everything about the situation rather presumptive.

I'll bet against you, and on the possibility that the prison forwarded surveillance footage at some point in the two days between breakout and destruction. Factor that with, say, any FTL communication satelites that could easily have picked up Shepard's last broadcasts to the Normandy before destruction...

If Hackett already knew something then why wouldn't he say anything?  All we got from him was 'What the hell happened in there Shepard?  I sent you in to rescue Kenson and you blow up a Relay?'

Debriefing 101, of course. If you want someone else's views/account on what happened, you don't feed them what you already know beforehand. You let them go first, so you can observe and contrast what they say with what you've heard.

Like he said, he wanted to hear Shepard's own version of the events. If Shepard starts lying his/her ass off in a way that Hackett knows is total BS, then Hackett's response will be different than if what Shepard says fits into the possibilities of what Hackett already knows or suspects. If Hackett tells what he suspects/knows first, however, then Shepard could simply BS along the lines of what Hackett has already given.

As for Shepards last transmission to the Normandy to get them to pick him up, that happened litterally minutes before the Relay went nova, but yes, thats possible (though given that the Normandy is a stealth ship if Shepard didn't use an encrypted and secure frequency then he's just stupid).

Or Shepard didn't have a choice, because the Arrival asteroid base wasn't setup ahead of time to link with the Normandy.

Or the encryption could, with enough effort, be cracked.

Or Batarian spy sattelites watching the Relay got a visual, detected the FTL drop-out/departure signatures, or were able to detect that the Relay was used but were unable to detect any space craft, which is a strong indicator of some sort of stealth ship...

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 21 mai 2011 - 07:19 .

[Dean_the_Young]

General User wrote...

There's alot to that. The batarians have a whole heap of bad karma headed their way. The events of Arrival are part of that

You know, I've always felt that the Batarians really should be used more often as an example of the flaws of the Council system and it's tendency for blatant double standards, hypocrisies, and betrayal of the interests of associate species in favor of the Council itself.

[Gavinthelocust]

I'm fairly sure that destroying a whole solar system, one containing a Mass Relay no less, will probably net you the death penalty no matter where you are.

[CroGamer002]

Dave666 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

LorDC wrote...

I always wondered how people tend to make arguments like "Blah-blah-blah Shepard didn't break the law" or like "Blah-blah-blah Shepard is Spectre so Alliance can't arrest and judge him". Where do you live guys? Countries only care about the law when it suits their needs. Neither formal nor factual crime is needed to get your ass into the jail. If Alliance or Council will want put Shepard under the trial the only thing that will be required is o catch him.

Exactly. Even if we assume that the Council is fine with the mass murder, someone will have to bring Shepard for questioning regardless. Shepard's Spectre status only works in the Council's domain and is not and never will be the same in the eyes of non-Council races. Why anyone should recognize the same authority that other people do is a question that doesn't even stand up to contemporary politics.

I always find it wierd that people say Shepard will have to answer for it when there's shoddy evidence at best that Shepard was even involved at all.

Court:  We have video footage of you breaking someone out of a Batarian prison.

Shepard:  That video has been doctored, I was never there.

Court:  A witness managed to make it through the Relay before it blew up and claims that they saw the Normandy.

Shepard:  They're lying.

Court:  We find insufficient evidence.  Case dismissed.

Most people still think Shepard is dead. It would be very random to choose Shepard for fabricating.

[CroGamer002]

008Zulu wrote...

Destroy Raiden wrote...

of course not he just killed 300,000 people, blew up a mass relay, and took out an entire galaxy sure no laws were broken murder is totally legal if you do it where no one is watching you...

1- Batarians are slavers, slavers aren't people.

1st slaver are still people since scums are people too
2nd most of population on that planet are slaves
3rd not everyone there, who is free, is slaver

2- An entire galaxy? It destroyed 1 solar system.

I give you that one, but I'm sure he/she meant solar system.

3- The Alpha Relay links (under certain circumstances) with a Citadel access relay. The Council wont be sad to see it gone.

Can anyone prove that Alpha Relay connects them to Citadel?

The whole reason Batarians hate us is because we thrashed their puny asses after they invaded us, for the purposes of kidnapping new slaves. They then cried to the Council who ignored them.

Batarian Hierarchy NEVER invaded Alliance.
Just pirates that also consisted from humans, Turians and others.

And reason why they hate Alliance is because Alliance took colonies that were promised to Batarians, but they failed to colonize them.

That is all the excuse the Batarians would need to invade. If they didn't after that, then they sure as hell wont after Arrival. Our fleets and defences are bigger and stonger, they have only become moreso, the Batarians know this.

Well they won't stand a chance if Alliance has Council support.
With this excuse Council can't help Alliance, unless they want to deal with public protesting over that and I'm sure Turian Hierarchy would aprove that.

[Moiaussi]

Mesina2 wrote...

Most people still think Shepard is dead. It would be very random to choose Shepard for fabricating.

Actually since the Council covered that up, most think Shepard is alive.

Batarian Hierarchy NEVER invaded Alliance.
Just pirates that also consisted from humans, Turians and others.

And reason why they hate Alliance is because Alliance took colonies that were promised to Batarians, but they failed to colonize them.

The Skyllian Blitz was a joint pirate/Batarian operation, hence the retaliation being against Torfan, a 'mostly Batarian' world. Hence the Batarians going to the Council for military aid in its aftermath.

Also that region was claimed by the Batarians but I am pretty sure it was not promised to them. There is a difference there. The Batarians claimed it. The Alliance contested that by way of setting up colonies in the region, the Batarians supported by pirates attacked Elysium and were repulsed, the Alliance retalliated at Torfan, and the Batarians pulled out on learning they would get no support.

Well they won't stand a chance if Alliance has Council support.
With this excuse Council can't help Alliance, unless they want to deal with public protesting over that and I'm sure Turian Hierarchy would aprove that.

It isn't that the Council backed the Alliance so much as that the Council refused to back the Batarians. There is no evidence that the Council sent any ships at all into the region and the fact that they still refuse to do so even when the Geth are invading in ME1 backs up the suggestion that they never even threatened to do so.

[CroGamer002]

Moiaussi wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Most people still think Shepard is dead. It would be very random to choose Shepard for fabricating.

Actually since the Council covered that up, most think Shepard is alive.

When did Council said "Shepard is alive people"?
Also in Kasumi LM, you can hear some people talking that they heard rumors that Shepard is alive but it's just wishful thinking.
And on news they're talking that Shepard might be alive.

Batarian Hierarchy NEVER invaded Alliance.
Just pirates that also consisted from humans, Turians and others.

And reason why they hate Alliance is because Alliance took colonies that were promised to Batarians, but they failed to colonize them.

The Skyllian Blitz was a joint pirate/Batarian operation, hence the retaliation being against Torfan, a 'mostly Batarian' world. Hence the Batarians going to the Council for military aid in its aftermath.

Batarians hate Alliance LONG BEFORE that even happen.
And those attacks are made by independent colonies in Terminus System's.

Also that region was claimed by the Batarians but I am pretty sure it was not promised to them. There is a difference there. The Batarians claimed it. The Alliance contested that by way of setting up colonies in the region, the Batarians supported by pirates attacked Elysium and were repulsed, the Alliance retalliated at Torfan, and the Batarians pulled out on learning they would get no support.

Did you forget about Mindoir?


Also, it was never stated that Batarian Hierarchy had anything with those attack and Skylian Blitz was lead by Elanos Haliat, who is human.

Well they won't stand a chance if Alliance has Council support.
With this excuse Council can't help Alliance, unless they want to deal with public protesting over that and I'm sure Turian Hierarchy would aprove that.

It isn't that the Council backed the Alliance so much as that the Council refused to back the Batarians. There is no evidence that the Council sent any ships at all into the region and the fact that they still refuse to do so even when the Geth are invading in ME1 backs up the suggestion that they never even threatened to do so.

And that has any connection with my reply... how?