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[General User]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
You know, I've always felt that the Batarians really should be used more often as an example of the flaws of the Council system and it's tendency for blatant double standards, hypocrisies, and betrayal of the interests of associate species in favor of the Council itself.

Then Captain Anderson says something to that effect in ME1, when he talks about how the Council wants humanity to settle turbulent regions of the galaxy, but won’t back humanity up when humanity inevitably runs into trouble. The turbulence and trouble humanity runs into being largely batarian related.

You made a point in another thread that one of the reasons the salarians and asari on the Council were so quick to embrace humanity following the First Contact War was the Alliance’s potential to “counter-balance” the turians militarily. I think you could easily put the batarians in the same basket. I really got the impression that the batarians had been a worrying concern for the Council races for some time, and the arrival of humanity on the scene gave them a chance to do something about their ‘batarian problem’ without risking themselves.

I wouldn’t say that that’s a terrible thing for the Council to do, in and of itself. But it sure doesn’t say anything too complimentary about them with regards to their resolve, courage, or ethics that they were willing to tolerate a people as vile as the batarians until they found another people to pit against them.

Of course, now that humanity has risen so very far so very fast, it’s possible that the Council might go back to preferring batarian slave-lords to human colonists. It is as you say, the Council is nothing if not self interested.

Modifié par General User, 21 mai 2011 - 08:14 .

[TUHD]

My thoughts...
1) Majority of the people will have gotten the Spectre status in their games. This at least will save Shephard (I think it will some form of retcon sadly enough) from the involvement of the Council.
2) Cameras. Yes, there were cameras in the prison. BUT. One area got patrolled that much that there likely wouldn't be any areas, another was that few used that it won't have any cameras either likely (subbasement area), and the area after that gets cut short of security cams by Shephard (at least, if you aren't totally dumb) shortly before reaching the doctor.
Also, Shephard was in full body armour. Good luck identifying him/her.
3) Messages. The only proof the batarians have, is that the doctor and her team (who eluded capture) were messing around with the Alpha Relay. Also, since the Alpha Relay is a secondary relay, trade and such won't be hurt as much as a traffic jam at/destruction of a primary relay (poor Reapers, they disguised their alternative primary relay as a secondary relay, and STILL lost it ). Since each com seems to be able to use encryption, I doubt Shephard could be caught on voice/com traffic recognition.
4) Reapers. A few months (unless it's pre-suicide mission) after the destruction the Reapers invade. I really, really doubt that any batarian along the way the Reapers take to Earth/Palaven/other places where they go will be left alive. Also, I guess the com traffic buoys will 'suddenly' be offline in case the Reapers are near them, so no batarian reports will likely be going in or out of their systems (I presume here the Reapers will only use primary relays).
5) Evidence. Like Admiral Hackett said, evidence is shoddy at best. The only thing the Alliance can do is accuse Shephard. Proving it is an entirely another thing. It is of course plausible that the Alliance technicians will have just started extracting the nav/plotting history database from the Normandy SR-2, but no doubt the Reapers will be cutting that short by invading Earth just at the start of the trial.

So no, I don't think the Alliance will be able or will be willing to convict Shephard. That would lower the approval of the Alliance by their fellow humans (since Shephard is a symbol of humanity, and the dislike between humans and batarians seems to be mutual).
I guess a trial is the limit... and since it's likely the batarians long-since will be pretty much hammered by the Reapers (or perhaps even Cerberus taking their chance to use some of their new tech), I doubt it will continue after the war against the Reapers. Also, last time I checked the Alliance had about 10-12 dreadnoughts (although some will be lost against the Reapers), while the batarians aren't even interested in those but more in small combat fleets.

@ Council 'hypocrisy' / Alliance being the aggressor: what happened, according to the lore, is that the Batarians were busy with terraforming a small part of the system, not even a quarter of it. The newly-emerged Alliance also found the Skyllian Verge and started to settle there too - that quick that the amount of colonies were about the same at the time the Hegemony asked the Council to declare it an 'space of batarian interests' - since they had tons of non-prepared plans lying around for colonization (note: just plans, and since the Batarians try to terraform even the most inhabitable worlds, it would take centuries for them to terraform even a quarter of the Verge).
Logically, the Council denied the request - since the Verge was unclaimed territory, and both the Hegemony and the Alliance were competing for it. The Batarians started to play victim, withdrew instantly from the Citadel (some time later they even tried to murder the Council, see http://masseffect.wi...s_Effect_Galaxy).
Also, humanity has got one of the biggest fleets in the galaxy - I thought there were about 4-5 fleets, but those battle groups are massive - the Arcturus Prime fleet at the end of ME1 is just a fifth of Alliance's power, and look at how big that one was and how quickly they wiped out the attacking Geth (which seemed to feature quite a few frigates and such) and managed (with Shephard's help) to exterminate Sovereign. I can't see any Batarian fleet doing that, even with Sovereigns shields down - that hull and Sovereigns weapons were massively strong and powerfull - while the batarians seem to have frigates at best, while the fleet of the Alliance at the end of ME1 seemed to feature at least 1-2 dreadnoughts. (For your info, the Normandy SR1 was 'just' an advanced kind of frigate - it was one of the smaller ships it seemed, so I *think* there were quite a few battlecruisers too among the Arcturus fleet.)

@Hegemony and oppression: the batarians don't get oppressed. Those who aren't batarian and live in Hegemony space are getting oppressed. Batarians aren't (read Revelation if you want to have an impression). Quite the opposite, thanks to the slavery practices the batarians themselves have got quite a few benefits/advantages in their own systems.

Modifié par TUHD, 21 mai 2011 - 08:34 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

008Zulu wrote...

Destroy Raiden wrote...

1. They aren't people? That's how the Holocaust happened so let's not start denying people are people here. That's one of the first steps done when one wishes to eradicate someone.

2. Mis typed on that one but who cares we all know a solar system blowing tohell is still a big deal

3. What they think of destroying an irreplaceable artifact is irrelevant what's in question is can shep be tried for doing it? I'd say yes sense it would be like burning the Mona Lisa

1- It was not, nor has it ever been, Shepard's intention (expressed or otherwise) to wipe out the Batarian species.

2- Relays are not priceless works of art. While destroying one is a very serious issue, considering the security threat it represented, it could be a justifiable action. No one could say with absolute certainty what would happen if a relay was destroyed anyway, sure it would have been a big bang, but none could predict just how big until someone actually did it.

1. Sure shep hasn't said anything to that effect but others on the boards have that's a very dangerous place to go to you don't say that unless you mean them harm. Batarians may not be the most upstanding people in the universe but they're still people slavers or no. Deal with the slavers on a case by case basis for their crimes and those who have not done any crimes let them be until the do.

2. The relays are priceless no one knows how they work, how to build one, and no one knows how to fix them. There is a case on the Citadel back in ME were someone tampered with a control panel inside the Citadel they announced it was a crime and was looking for the perpetrators even though C-sec had no clue as to what that console did or didn't do for the station. The Citadel considers any tampering with Prothean technology a crime and punishable to what extent it is not known but a relay being blown up would more then likely get someone prison time.

As far as not knowing the blast radius Kensen did know and she said the star system would be blown up shep could at that point take her word for it or not. Turns out though she was right. With odds that big on a blast radius you don't just ignore it when someone says this blast could be huge you take their word for it take precautions and if it turns out they were wrong at least you prepared for the worst.

[TUHD]

Destroy Raiden wrote...As far as not knowing the blast radius Kensen did know and she said the star system would be blown up shep could at that point take her word for it or not. Turns out though she was right. With odds that big on a blast radius you don't just ignore it when someone says this blast could be huge you take their word for it take precautions and if it turns out they were wrong at least you prepared for the worst.

Few words: Reapers are approaching.
If you know it is true, and the Reapers if not stopped can invade an unsuspecting galaxy (OK, seems to be in those few months they still don't believe Shephard, except Admiral Hackett of course and Anderson).

[CroGamer002]

TUHD wrote...

My thoughts...
1) Majority of the people will have gotten the Spectre status in their games. This at least will save Shephard (I think it will some form of retcon sadly enough) from the involvement of the Council.

1st it's Shepard, not Shephard
2nd Council can easly deny that they give Spectre status back to Shepard

2) Cameras. Yes, there were cameras in the prison. BUT. One area got patrolled that much that there likely wouldn't be any areas, another was that few used that it won't have any cameras either likely (subbasement area), and the area after that gets cut short of security cams by Shephard (at least, if you aren't totally dumb) shortly before reaching the doctor.

That makes no sense.

Also, Shephard was in full body armour. Good luck identifying him/her.

My Shepard didn't had helmet on.
Also game can't recognize does Shepard has helmet on not, otherwise we woludn't even have an option to drink while having it on.

3) Messages. The only proof the batarians have, is that the doctor and her team (who eluded capture) were messing around with the Alpha Relay. Also, since the Alpha Relay is a secondary relay, trade and such won't be hurt as much as a traffic jam at/destruction of a primary relay (poor Reapers, they disguised their alternative primary relay as a secondary relay, and STILL lost it ). Since each com seems to be able to use encryption, I doubt Shephard could be caught on voice/com traffic recognition.

How about Shepard warning colony 2 hours before asteroid hitting Alpha Relay?

4) Reapers. A few months (unless it's pre-suicide mission) after the destruction the Reapers invade. I really, really doubt that any batarian along the way the Reapers take to Earth/Palaven/other places where they go will be left alive. Also, I guess the com traffic buoys will 'suddenly' be offline in case the Reapers are near them, so no batarian reports will likely be going in or out of their systems (I presume here the Reapers will only use primary relays).

Reapers will need few months to get to nearest Mass Relay.
And they'll attack Earth after that.

Also there was 2 days between prison brake and Alpha Relay getting blown up. Many reports could have been sent in mean time. Also 2 hours left from that message where Shepard warns Batarians. Plenty of time to send that report.

5) Evidence. Like Admiral Hackett said, evidence is shoddy at best. The only thing the Alliance can do is accuse Shephard. Proving it is an entirely another thing. It is of course plausible that the Alliance technicians will have just started extracting the nav/plotting history database from the Normandy SR-2, but no doubt the Reapers will be cutting that short by invading Earth just at the start of the trial.

Where Hackett does say that Alliance might use Shepard as scapegoat.

So no, I don't think the Alliance will be able or will be willing to convict Shephard. That would lower the approval of the Alliance by their fellow humans (since Shephard is a symbol of humanity, and the dislike between humans and batarians seems to be mutual).

Risk a war with Batarians with no Council support or convict Shepard for kill 300 000 people do to imaginary enemy and also works for terrorists?

Choice is very easy.

I guess a trial is the limit... and since it's likely the batarians long-since will be pretty much hammered by the Reapers (or perhaps even Cerberus taking their chance to use some of their new tech), I doubt it will continue after the war against the Reapers. Also, last time I checked the Alliance had about 10-12 dreadnoughts (although some will be lost against the Reapers), while the batarians aren't even interested in those but more in small combat fleets.

Suprise attack on strong fleet and deal with weaker one later or vice versa?
Yeah, choice is easy as well.

[InvincibleHero]

What you said is very true. However some caveats. The Batarians can present their case to the Citadel for redress. Shepard can be made an outlaw by absentia. If Shepard is to rejoin the Alliance a members state he/she cannot do so with such an issue hanging over them. The Alliance can be forced out of the Council so will they be willing to do so for one person? Highly unlikely.

[Vengeful Nature]

TUHD wrote...

@ Council 'hypocrisy' / Alliance being the aggressor: what happened, according to the lore, is that the Batarians were busy with terraforming a small part of the system, not even a quarter of it. The newly-emerged Alliance also found the Skyllian Verge and started to settle there too - that quick that the amount of colonies were about the same at the time the Hegemony asked the Council to declare it an 'space of batarian interests' - since they had tons of non-prepared plans lying around for colonization (note: just plans, and since the Batarians try to terraform even the most inhabitable worlds, it would take centuries for them to terraform even a quarter of the Verge).

We don't know how much of the Verge the batarians were developing, or how fast they were doing it. Given how heavily populated the Bahak system was (a population of 300,000 in 15 years), I'm inclined to believe that it was at least substantial. But it doesn't matter. This was a sector set aside for batarian development. Plus, the Skyllian Verge was given over to the Alliance by the Council in '65 after the Alliance became a full member of Citadel Space and was granted an embassy. So the Council effectively gave the area to two different governments and let them squabble over it themselves. I can't decide if this was either benign stupidity or the Council purposefully playing one off against the other, and I can't decide which is worse.

Besides, it would take the Alliance just as long if not longer (being newcomers to the whole "interstellar colonisation" thing) to develop the Verge.

Logically, the Council denied the request - since the Verge was unclaimed territory, and both the Hegemony and the Alliance were competing for it. The Batarians started to play victim, withdrew instantly from the Citadel (some time later they even tried to murder the Council, see http://masseffect.wi...s_Effect_Galaxy).

It wasn't unclaimed territory. It was claimed by both the Alliance and the Hegemony. The batarians were the victim, because they had been developing it for longer and therefore had more right to it. But then these new upstarts come along and start nosing their way in, and the Hegemony appeals to the Council to confirm the Verge as a zone of batarian interest. Which it was already, just not officially.

Also, humanity has got one of the biggest fleets in the galaxy

No it doesn't. The Alliance has about 200 ships, 8 of which are dreadnaughts (2 more were finished between 2183 and 2185). The Palaven Hierarchy, stipulated by the Treaty of Farixen, has at least 5x that many. That's 37 dreadnaughts, as of 2183 (again, 2 more were built '83-'85). The Salarian Union and the Asari Republics have at least 3x that of the Alliance. I say "at least" because we don't even know if the Alliance had the full limit of 1/5th the size of the Hierarchy fleets, since they haven't had enough time to build that many yet. Granted, this was before the Citadel attack, but who honestly thinks that the entire turian, asari and salarians fleets were at the Citadel? That would be stupid. Who's holding down the fort in the rest of their territories?

I thought there were about 4-5 fleets, but those battle groups are massive - the Arcturus Prime fleet at the end of ME1 is just a fifth of Alliance's power, and look at how big that one was and how quickly they wiped out the attacking Geth (which seemed to feature quite a few frigates and such) and managed (with Shephard's help) to exterminate Sovereign.

Again, the Alliance only has 200 ships. The codex tells us this. Where are you getting your numbers?

I can't see any Batarian fleet doing that, even with Sovereigns shields down - that hull and Sovereigns weapons were massively strong and powerfull - while the batarians seem to have frigates at best, while the fleet of the Alliance at the end of ME1 seemed to feature at least 1-2 dreadnoughts. (For your info, the Normandy SR1 was 'just' an advanced kind of frigate - it was one of the smaller ships it seemed, so I *think* there were quite a few battlecruisers too among the Arcturus fleet.)

Why can't you see it? The batarians have been a spacefaring species for centuries. They almost certainly had enough time to build up substantial fleets during their time as a Citadel species. And they do have dreadnaughts. One of them carted away the Leviathan of Dis when the batarians did the magic hat on it.

The problem is that the Hegemony's strength appears to be tied down in the Terminus Systems, trying in vain to keep order there.

@Hegemony and oppression: the batarians don't get oppressed. Those who aren't batarian and live in Hegemony space are getting oppressed. Batarians aren't (read Revelation if you want to have an impression). Quite the opposite, thanks to the slavery practices the batarians themselves have got quite a few benefits/advantages in their own systems.

At least some batarians don't agree with the slavery. We know this from the Anhur Rebellion. You can't paint an entire species made of hundreds of billions of souls with the same brush.

Modifié par Vengeful Nature, 21 mai 2011 - 10:18 .

[Moiaussi]

Mesina2 wrote...

When did Council said "Shepard is alive people"?
Also in Kasumi LM, you can hear some people talking that they heard rumors that Shepard is alive but it's just wishful thinking.
And on news they're talking that Shepard might be alive.

That sounds like the writers can't get their story straight. When Shepard arrives on the Citadel, noone is surpised Shepard is alive. C-Sec thinks the system listing him as dead is merely a database error. I am pretty sure someone (either TIM or Miranda or Anderson) says something about them never announcing his being MIA but instead treating Shep as being alive for PR purposes.

There are runours that Shepard is dead, but no official announcement.

Batarians hate Alliance LONG BEFORE that even happen.
And those attacks are made by independent colonies in Terminus System's

Did you forget about Mindoir?

Also, it was never stated that Batarian Hierarchy had anything with those attack and Skylian Blitz was lead by Elanos Haliat, who is human.

Per the codex, the Alliance started colonizing the region in the early 2160's. Mindoir happened in 2170. The Blitz happened in 2176 and Torfan in 2178. I am not sure that approximately 15 years counts as 'long before.'

As for Batarian involvement in the Blitz or Torfan, here is the codex quote:

Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-funded pirates and slavers. In 2178, the Alliance retaliated with a crushing assault on the moon of Torfan, long used as a staging base by batarian-backed criminals. In the aftermath, the batarians retreated into their own systems, and are now rarely seen in Citadel space.

If the pirates involved in the Blitz and Torfan had nothing to do with the Batarians, why did the Batarians retreat when they were defeated? If they were independant forces wouldn't they have been preying on both the Alliance and Batarian colonies?

And that has any connection with my reply... how?

There is a difference between facing both the Alliance and Council and facing just the Alliance. The Batarians didn't have the military strength to defend or hold the region, and unless you include Torfan, the Alliance never attacked any Batarian colonies. The Batarians were claiming territory simply by drawing an arbitrary line on a map with no negotiation and no willingness to defend their claim.

It would be as if Canada declared ownership of Mars simply on the basis of having a space program. If the US or Russia got colonies there first, how strong do you think any Canadian claim would be? Alternatively, if Russia got a colony going on Mars, do you really feel that everyone else would consider that equivalent to ownership of the planet and back off on their own Martian colonies?

[008Zulu]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

Right, all batarians are slavers. Just like all Afghans are terrorists.

All of the actions made by the Hegemony are exactly that, made by the Hegemony. The undemocratic and unelected, and therefore unrepresentative government of a nation of perhaps hundreds of billions of people. Given the nature of batarian society, I would think that the vast majority of people in batarian space are oppressed and have no say in the actions of their despotic government. So they are not responsible for anything the Hegemony has done. Sure, the people in power should be targeted with extreme prejudice. But the 300,000 people who died in the Bahak system were just poor schlubs forced to work in terrible conditions on a planet where the air isn't even fully breathable. How are these people responsible for the Mindoir raid, the Skyllian Blitz, Balak's actions on X57, or any other action sponsored by the Hegemony?

Don't blame me because Bioware subscribes to the "Planet of Hats" theory.

The Batarian reports you hear about ingame in the background, state that slavery is part of their culture. It has been historically proven that when people have slaves, they think it gives them free reign to treat them however they want. Which they do, brutally.

When you start "thinking" for an entire culture, you risk projecting your own issues on to them.

Vengeful Nature wrote...
The whole reason batarians hate us is because the Alliance started shoving it's way into a region of space that they were already developing themselves. Would the US government like it if China starting setting up oil pipelines in Alaska and damn the complaints or consequences? The fact that the Alliance was encouraged by the Council makes it worse, becuase it's like if the UN sided with China in the case I just described.

So, the Hegemony rightfully complain about it to the Council, who promptly tell them to shove it and that the Alliance can have the systems, despite the fact that the Council let the batarians start developing that area in the first place. So they decide to be done with this stupid Council of liars and hypocrites, and what do you know, they suddenly end up with every pirate gang, mercenary group and criminal organisation flooding in through the now wide-open door.

At this point, they're pretty PO'ed. But they know they can't settle the issue through open war because all of Citadel Space will be sicced on them in a heartbeat. So they do the only thing they can to press their argument: they start funneling arms, equipment and money to those very same freeloading pirates, mercs and criminals and encourage them to try and destabilise and disrupt as many Alliance operations in the Skyllian Verge and Attican Traverse as possible, becuaes, hell, no one else is gonna help them. If the Alliance has any sense, they'll pull out of the region and the batarians can have it back. Hell, the very same Council that started this situation by helping this aggressive Alliance won't even help said Alliance, which makes them even worse liars and hypocrites.

You see? This whole situation was started by the Council playing the Alliance off against the Hegemony in the first place, because "damn those government's right, we have a millennia-old status quo to protect".

According to Balak (ME1 Bringing down the Sky), he said that system should have been theirs (the Batarians), this indicates that they had never been there. By his logic, the entire galaxy belongs to the Batarians. The Council declined because the Batarians aren't a Council race (Council forbids slavery) and therefore couldn't provide assistance or intervention in a fight that they (the Batarians) started against a Council race.

As for the Council giving the go ahead, the entire Terminus is one big lawless zone. No central goverment or authority. If there is a vacant system, it is up for grabs. The Alliance made their claim and the Batarians thought it would be an easy target for slaves. If the Turians, Asari, Salarians or Alliance want to sweep through half a dozen systems and wipe out all the pirates and mercs in order to set up new colonies, they are allowed to.

[Moiaussi]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

We don't know how much of the Verge the batarians were developing, or how fast they were doing it. Given how heavily populated the Bahak system was (a population of 300,000 in 15 years), I'm inclined to believe that it was at least substantial. But it doesn't matter. This was a sector set aside for batarian development. Plus, the Skyllian Verge was given over to the Alliance by the Council in '65 after the Alliance became a full member of Citadel Space and was granted an embassy. So the Council effectively gave the area to two different governments and let them squabble over it themselves. I can't decide if this was either benign stupidity or the Council purposefully playing one off against the other, and I can't decide which is worse.

Besides, it would take the Alliance just as long if not longer (being newcomers to the whole "interstellar colonisation" thing) to develop the Verge.

Do we have any evidence that it was ever formally promised to the Batarians? Your link is to the timeline and doesn't even show it being promised to the Alliance. The Batarians protested Alliance colonization in the region but there is nothing in what you linked that says anything about the region being granted to either. Why is 'both colonize at your own pace, may the best empire win' necessarily bad policy?

It wasn't unclaimed territory. It was claimed by both the Alliance and the Hegemony. The batarians were the victim, because they had been developing it for longer and therefore had more right to it. But then these new upstarts come along and start nosing their way in, and the Hegemony appeals to the Council to confirm the Verge as a zone of batarian interest. Which it was already, just not officially.

It was claimed exclusively by the Hegemony but the Alliance never actually ordered the Batarians out. The Alliance never protested or threatened Batarian worlds in the region until after the Skyllian Blitz, and even then they hit Torfan, which was a Batarian backed pirate stronghold rather than a formal Batarian colony.

"Just not officially" means 'it wasn't, really.' Claiming a region and having your claim recognized are vastly different things.

No it doesn't. The Alliance has about 200 ships, 8 of which are dreadnaughts (2 more were finished between 2183 and 2185). The Palaven Hierarchy, stipulated by the Treaty of Farixen, has at least 5x that many. That's 37 dreadnaughts, as of 2183 (again, 2 more were built '83-'85). The Salarian Union and the Asari Republics have at least 3x that of the Alliance. I say "at least" because we don't even know if the Alliance had the full limit of 1/5th the size of the Hierarchy fleets, since they haven't had enough time to build that many yet. Granted, this was before the Citadel attack, but who honestly thinks that the entire turian, asari and salarians fleets were at the Citadel? That would be stupid. Who's holding down the fort in the rest of their territories?

Again, the Alliance only has 200 ships. The codex tells us this. Where are you getting your numbers?

Which really begs the question as to how the Alliance had any chance at all in the First Contact war. I don't care how new or innovative Alliance tactics were. 10 to 1 is still 10 to 1. The writers really don't seem to have a sense of scale sometimes.

The US Navy has more ships than that and only has Earth's oceans to patrol.

You are completely right regarding the codex entry, but the number is innanely small given the way Alliance military strength is usually portrayed in game.

Why can't you see it? The batarians have been a spacefaring species for centuries. They almost certainly had enough time to build up substantial fleets during their time as a Citadel species. And they do have dreadnaughts. One of them carted away the Leviathan of Dis when the batarians did the magic hat on it.

The problem is that the Hegemony's strength appears to be tied down in the Terminus Systems, trying in vain to keep order there.

The Batarians don't even have sufficient fleet strength to be willing to even attempt challenging the Alliance. They went to the Council first rather than putting ships over worlds themselves and in the Skyllian Blitz, the naval prescence was laugable. It was only a tough fight on the ground. In space it was very one sided.

Given the fact that Alliance naval strength is inexplicably low, the Batarians must have a really pathetic navy to not be able to stand up for themselves.

At least some batarians don't agree with the slavery. We know this from the Anhur Rebellion. You can't paint an entire species made of hundreds of billions of souls with the same brush.

This is true and it is a pitty that we never really see the other side. The Batarians we deal with on Omega can be dealt with reasonably, and even show respect when respect is given to them. Batarians work with human pirates all the time with no racial incidents, so the issues are pretty much purely territorial and it is a pity that diplomatic solutions were not found.

All this is somewhat academic though in that Shepard wasn't trying to kill Batarians.

Modifié par Moiaussi, 21 mai 2011 - 10:48 .

[008Zulu]

Destroy Raiden wrote...
1. Sure shep hasn't said anything to that effect but others on the boards have that's a very dangerous place to go to you don't say that unless you mean them harm. Batarians may not be the most upstanding people in the universe but they're still people slavers or no. Deal with the slavers on a case by case basis for their crimes and those who have not done any crimes let them be until the do.

2. The relays are priceless no one knows how they work, how to build one, and no one knows how to fix them. There is a case on the Citadel back in ME were someone tampered with a control panel inside the Citadel they announced it was a crime and was looking for the perpetrators even though C-sec had no clue as to what that console did or didn't do for the station. The Citadel considers any tampering with Prothean technology a crime and punishable to what extent it is not known but a relay being blown up would more then likely get someone prison time.

As far as not knowing the blast radius Kensen did know and she said the star system would be blown up shep could at that point take her word for it or not. Turns out though she was right. With odds that big on a blast radius you don't just ignore it when someone says this blast could be huge you take their word for it take precautions and if it turns out they were wrong at least you prepared for the worst.

1- I have read some of those posts, all by notable pro-Cerb anti-Alliance types. Perhaps a modification of "people" on my behalf. Slavers are people, but on a sliding scale they are down there with the kind who prey on kids.

2- That console bit was about the AI who was funneling credits from the Quasar machines. In ME2, the Asari matriarch bartender implied that the Asari know how they work and how to build them.

The Relay, it was on the outter edges of the system. Assuming the planet with the 300,000 was in the narrow zone for a garden world, roughly 150 million kms from the star. The Relay would be in or about 42 billion kms from the star. The planet may very well be intact and some of the population alive, though I cannot imagine what massive Element Zero exposures would do to Batarian physiology.

The Alliance may let Shepard off, but, the Council may not let the Alliance off.

[008Zulu]

Mesina2 wrote...
Can anyone prove that Alpha Relay connects them to Citadel?

The ingame codex entries you get from collecting datapads in Arrival state that fact.

Mesina2 wrote...
Batarian Hierarchy NEVER invaded Alliance.
Just pirates that also consisted from humans, Turians and others.

And reason why they hate Alliance is because Alliance took colonies that were promised to Batarians, but they failed to colonize them.

They why did the Batarian government complain and ask for assistance? Who promised them the systems and by what authority?

Mesina2 wrote...
Well they won't stand a chance if Alliance has Council support. With this excuse Council can't help Alliance, unless they want to deal with public protesting over that and I'm sure Turian Hierarchy would aprove that.

The Alliance beat them off without Council aid the first time, and would have an easier time should they try again.

[CroGamer002]

Moiaussi wrote...

That sounds like the writers can't get their story straight. When Shepard arrives on the Citadel, noone is surpised Shepard is alive. C-Sec thinks the system listing him as dead is merely a database error. I am pretty sure someone (either TIM or Miranda or Anderson) says something about them never announcing his being MIA but instead treating Shep as being alive for PR purposes.

So random C-Sec captian that doesn't even care makes you think that everyone knows about Shepard being alive, while Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Wreav, Mouse, Nassana, Council, Shepard's mother( Spacer only), Salarian merchant on Citadel, Fist and probably someone else I forgot don't make that not everyone thinks Shepard is dead?

There are runours that Shepard is dead, but no official announcement.

You don't make a memorial to someone who is only rumored to be dead.

Also Mouse specificly says to you that Shepard was dead and had every right to use him/her for VI and profit.

Per the codex, the Alliance started colonizing the region in the early 2160's. Mindoir happened in 2170. The Blitz happened in 2176 and Torfan in 2178. I am not sure that approximately 15 years counts as 'long before.'

15 years is still pretty big time difference.

As for Batarian involvement in the Blitz or Torfan, here is the codex quote:

Hostilities peaked with the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-funded pirates and slavers. In 2178, the Alliance retaliated with a crushing assault on the moon of Torfan, long used as a staging base by batarian-backed criminals. In the aftermath, the batarians retreated into their own systems, and are now rarely seen in Citadel space.

If the pirates involved in the Blitz and Torfan had nothing to do with the Batarians, why did the Batarians retreat when they were defeated? If they were independant forces wouldn't they have been preying on both the Alliance and Batarian colonies?

Batarian Hierarchy≠random Batarian pirates

Unlike Alliance, Batarians Hierarchy is there for centuries. They have lot more protection against pirates.
Alliance is obviously lot more weaker in defending own colonies so a lot more easier pray.

There is a difference between facing both the Alliance and Council and facing just the Alliance. The Batarians didn't have the military strength to defend or hold the region, and unless you include Torfan, the Alliance never attacked any Batarian colonies. The Batarians were claiming territory simply by drawing an arbitrary line on a map with no negotiation and no willingness to defend their claim.

They did negotiate but Council was more leaning to Alliance so Batarians out of protest closed their embassy.

It would be as if Canada declared ownership of Mars simply on the basis of having a space program. If the US or Russia got colonies there first, how strong do you think any Canadian claim would be? Alternatively, if Russia got a colony going on Mars, do you really feel that everyone else would consider that equivalent to ownership of the planet and back off on their own Martian colonies?

Unlike Canada, Batarians Hierarchy were there since 200 BCE( 300 years after Council was made) while Alliance showed up in 2157 CE( 2 657 years after Council was made) and started to colonize worlds that Batarians claim it's their.

No other species, not even Turians, started to colonize those worlds.

And reason why they didn't colonize those worlds is because they were keeping order in their space and protecting their territory.
So they didn't want to rush colonization for security reason, while Alliance just rushed that process and colonies are now easy prey for pirates.

Alliance f*cked up big time for being greedy.

Modifié par Mesina2, 22 mai 2011 - 06:56 .

[CroGamer002]

008Zulu wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
Can anyone prove that Alpha Relay connects them to Citadel?

The ingame codex entries you get from collecting datapads in Arrival state that fact.

What datapad?

Mesina2 wrote...
Batarian Hierarchy NEVER invaded Alliance.
Just pirates that also consisted from humans, Turians and others.

And reason why they hate Alliance is because Alliance took colonies that were promised to Batarians, but they failed to colonize them.

They why did the Batarian government complain and ask for assistance? Who promised them the systems and by what authority?

Considering that Batarians are there since 200 BCE( Council made in 500 BCE) and no other species started to take those worlds, I'm sure that those worlds were left for them.

And why they asked for assistance? Well they couldn't just colonize those colonies their forces are too tin because they protect their territory from pirates and keep order.
And going to war with Alliance is not a question since they would most likely have Council support.

And look at Alliance, many colonies left Alliance Space and many more colonies are exposed to pirate attacks.

Mesina2 wrote...
Well they won't stand a chance if Alliance has Council support. With this excuse Council can't help Alliance, unless they want to deal with public protesting over that and I'm sure Turian Hierarchy would approve that.

The Alliance beat them off without Council aid the first time, and would have an easier time should they try again.

Those were random Batarian, Human and probably Turian pirates, not real Batarian military.

Modifié par Mesina2, 22 mai 2011 - 07:07 .

[Moiaussi]

Mesina2 wrote...


So random C-Sec captian that doesn't even care makes you think that everyone knows about Shepard being alive, while Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Wreav, Mouse, Nassana, Council, Shepard's mother( Spacer only), Salarian merchant on Citadel, Fist and probably someone else I forgot don't make that not everyone thinks Shepard is dead?

It wasn't just 'random C-sec officer.' Bailey didn't react surprised either and in fact pointed out that some people try to play dead to avoid taxes.

Of those you list, many were there when the Normandy went down so they know the truth. Shepard's mother would have been informed. The Council obviously know or it wouldn't be considered a Council coverup. Fist and Mouse are in the information business, so their knowing makes sense. And of course there are rumours that you are dead too. You were out of contact for two years and that starts such rumours.

You don't make a memorial to someone who is only rumored to be dead.

Also Mouse specificly says to you that Shepard was dead and had every right to use him/her for VI and profit.

Mouse is in the information business and even though Shepard was never officially announced as dead, the system lists him as dead. The memorial I admit is evidence but that might have been the Alliance rather than the Council.

15 years is still pretty big time difference.

Given how long it takes to establish colonies to any signifcant degree, 15 years isn't much time at all. There are border disputes here on Earth that have been going on 100+ times longer than that.

Batarian Hierarchy≠random Batarian pirates

Unlike Alliance, Batarians Hierarchy is there for centuries. They have lot more protection against pirates.
Alliance is obviously lot more weaker in defending own colonies so a lot more easier pray.

The codex says 'batarian backed.' What does that mean to you?

They did negotiate but Council was more leaning to Alliance so Batarians out of protest closed their embassy.

There is a difference between leaning towards the Alliance and not leaning in favour either side.

Unlike Canada, Batarians Hierarchy were there since 200 BCE( 300 years after Council was made) while Alliance showed up in 2157 CE( 2 657 years after Council was made) and started to colonize worlds that Batarians claim it's their.

No other species, not even Turians, started to colonize those worlds.

And reason why they didn't colonize those worlds is because they were keeping order in their space and protecting their territory.
So they didn't want to rush colonization for security reason, while Alliance just rushed that process and colonies are now easy prey for pirates.

Alliance f*cked up big time for being greedy.

What is your source? The Batarians can't be taking colonization very seriously at all if they had been there 1900 years and still hadn't established control of the region. Per the timeline, 200 BCE is when first contact was made, not when the Batarians started colonizing the Verge. Both the Batarians and Humans 'existed' long before their respective first contacts.

As for being 'greedy,' we know the Turians are on one Alliance border. Have you considered that the Alliance might simply have nowhere else to expand?

Modifié par Moiaussi, 22 mai 2011 - 08:42 .

[OmegaXI]

Heres the information on the planet that was destroyed from the codex and wiki.

Aratoht- Colony
Species: Batarian
Colony Founded: 2162 CE
Population: Estimated 90,000 (free), 215,000 (other)
Capital: Ectah

Description:
"Like Mount Everest inside an oven," was how Jon Grissom characterized Aratoht while on an Alliance fact-finding mission to see if the garden world was worth contestation with the batarians. His team ultimately decided that the planet's air pressure and oxygen content were too low for large-scale human habitation, ending a year-long political battle with the batarians and the Citadel Council's Committee on Habitable Worlds. Since then, the Batarian Hegemony has quietly colonized the planet's polar regions, where the heat is manageable due to heavy rainfall.

Information on the colony itself is restricted by the Hegemony's Department of Information Control, but a few facts are known. A large-scale operation to increase the oxygen content of the planet is under way: skilled workers constantly dump cyanobacteria into the oceans and seed the habitable zone with invasive plant species. Slave labor is largely reserved for the planet's extensive mining industry, which takes advantage of the high-density planet's rich lodes of ferrous and heavy metals. Alliance intelligence has also confirmed that the colony is home to several batarian military installations, a threatening sign for a planet this close to Earth's local cluster and the Exodus Relay. Its infrastructure includes many satellites and several space stations.

Codex Entry:
"Nothing is impossible," says the Hegemony propaganda poster that depicts a muscular batarian miner under an Aratoht sky, his rebreather held away from his face as if he's just taken it off. The image sums up millions of man-hours of labor on the batarian planet and represents (or misrepresents) much of its history. Two decades ago, Aratoht, like several planets in the Skyllian Verge, was claimed by both human and batarian governments, but the Alliance backed out after learning about the atmosphere's dangerously low pressure and oxygen levels. Instead, they concentrated their colonial efforts on planets that could support human life without the aid of domed habitats and rebreathers. Human governments saw it as a wise move; batarians saw it as cowardly.

The batarians rose to the colonization challenge, shipping in large numbers of laborers. They took the high financial costs and casualties due to accidents or logistical snafus in stride. Large-scale dumping of cyanobacteria has increased the oxygen in the atmosphere by a fraction of one percent, a modest increase that the Hegemony trumpets as a sign of their eventual victory. Short-term profits on Aratoht are largely made in the minerals sector through mining the extremely metal-rich planetary crust. The dark side to the mining does not appear on the propaganda poster -- the majority of laborers are indentured servants or slaves.

Aratoht is rumored to have military bases on its surface and throughout its solar system, though details are heavily restricted by the Hegemony's Ministry of Information Control. Human merchant ships rarely come to the planet, outcompeted by local companies that benefit from heavy economic protections. The average Aratoht citizen only sees humans on the news, usually featured in stories of trials and executions of accused spies.
(reference source: http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Aratoht )

 and heres the posting from Cerberus daily news when it was an offical update from the writers


01/22/2011 - Batarian and Alliance Forces in Standoff in Skyllian Verge

“The galaxy is on high alert as starships belonging to the Earth Systems Alliance and Batarian Hegemony refuse to back down from a confrontation in the Skyllian Verge. The encounter began when a frigate from the batarian colony of Aratoht discovered an Alliance cruiser, the SSV Budapest, on patrol in the Bahak system. The Alliance claims the Budapest was chasing a pirate fleet that has been harassing human colonies in the Skyllian Verge, and that it was fully within its rights to travel through Bahak's space. The Batarian Hegemony has demanded the Alliance's immediate withdrawal from their colony's system. Three batarian cruisers stationed on Aratoht are now on their way to join the confrontation.”

• Other stories in Alliance Cruiser Sparks Diplomatic Crisis (First - 01/22/2011 - Next - 01/23/2011)

01/23/2011 - SSV Budapest Retreats from Batarian Space

“The Alliance cruiser that sparked a standoff between the Earth Systems Alliance and Batarian Hegemony has retreated from the Bahak system. Hegemony officials claim to have found no trace of the pirate fleet the Alliance was allegedly pursuing when the SSV Budapest flew into the system. The Alliance maintains it was chasing pirates raiding human merchant vessels when it crossed into batarian space, but refuses to release any of its ships' logs. Despite this, Citadel observers say the Alliance's withdrawal has done enough to ease tensions. "The Hegemony knows the Alliance is attempting to save face," said one anonymous Citadel diplomat. "At this juncture, the humans' retreat from Aratoht [in the Bahak system] has gone from a diplomatic crisis to an embarrassment they want swept under the rug."”

Modifié par OmegaXI, 22 mai 2011 - 09:41 .

[Moiaussi]

elektrego wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Shepard was never officially announced as dead, the system lists him as dead.

After completion of Horizon, there is news in the background, saying shepard was spotted there, but the council still officially denies his/her being alive or working as a spectre.

 I think he needs to be ofiicially dead for such an announcement to make sense

Actually near as I can tell I am wrong on this point. I swear there is a reference to the Council treating Shepard as still being alive (for PR purposes) but every clip I can find says the opposite. When Shep meets Jacob on Lazarus, Jacob says Shepard was declared dead.

Bugs me that I can't figure out where I got the idea they were doing otherwise.

[OmegaXI]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

TUHD wrote...

@ Council 'hypocrisy' / Alliance being the aggressor: what happened, according to the lore, is that the Batarians were busy with terraforming a small part of the system, not even a quarter of it. The newly-emerged Alliance also found the Skyllian Verge and started to settle there too - that quick that the amount of colonies were about the same at the time the Hegemony asked the Council to declare it an 'space of batarian interests' - since they had tons of non-prepared plans lying around for colonization (note: just plans, and since the Batarians try to terraform even the most inhabitable worlds, it would take centuries for them to terraform even a quarter of the Verge).

We don't know how much of the Verge the batarians were developing, or how fast they were doing it. Given how heavily populated the Bahak system was (a population of 300,000 in 15 years), I'm inclined to believe that it was at least substantial. But it doesn't matter. This was a sector set aside for batarian development. Plus, the Skyllian Verge was given over to the Alliance by the Council in '65 after the Alliance became a full member of Citadel Space and was granted an embassy. So the Council effectively gave the area to two different governments and let them squabble over it themselves. I can't decide if this was either benign stupidity or the Council purposefully playing one off against the other, and I can't decide which is worse.

Besides, it would take the Alliance just as long if not longer (being newcomers to the whole "interstellar colonisation" thing) to develop the Verge.

Logically, the Council denied the request - since the Verge was unclaimed territory, and both the Hegemony and the Alliance were competing for it. The Batarians started to play victim, withdrew instantly from the Citadel (some time later they even tried to murder the Council, see http://masseffect.wi...s_Effect_Galaxy).

It wasn't unclaimed territory. It was claimed by both the Alliance and the Hegemony. The batarians were the victim, because they had been developing it for longer and therefore had more right to it. But then these new upstarts come along and start nosing their way in, and the Hegemony appeals to the Council to confirm the Verge as a zone of batarian interest. Which it was already, just not officially.

Also, humanity has got one of the biggest fleets in the galaxy

No it doesn't. The Alliance has about 200 ships, 8 of which are dreadnaughts (2 more were finished between 2183 and 2185). The Palaven Hierarchy, stipulated by the Treaty of Farixen, has at least 5x that many. That's 37 dreadnaughts, as of 2183 (again, 2 more were built '83-'85). The Salarian Union and the Asari Republics have at least 3x that of the Alliance. I say "at least" because we don't even know if the Alliance had the full limit of 1/5th the size of the Hierarchy fleets, since they haven't had enough time to build that many yet. Granted, this was before the Citadel attack, but who honestly thinks that the entire turian, asari and salarians fleets were at the Citadel? That would be stupid. Who's holding down the fort in the rest of their territories?

I thought there were about 4-5 fleets, but those battle groups are massive - the Arcturus Prime fleet at the end of ME1 is just a fifth of Alliance's power, and look at how big that one was and how quickly they wiped out the attacking Geth (which seemed to feature quite a few frigates and such) and managed (with Shephard's help) to exterminate Sovereign.

Again, the Alliance only has 200 ships. The codex tells us this. Where are you getting your numbers?

I can't see any Batarian fleet doing that, even with Sovereigns shields down - that hull and Sovereigns weapons were massively strong and powerfull - while the batarians seem to have frigates at best, while the fleet of the Alliance at the end of ME1 seemed to feature at least 1-2 dreadnoughts. (For your info, the Normandy SR1 was 'just' an advanced kind of frigate - it was one of the smaller ships it seemed, so I *think* there were quite a few battlecruisers too among the Arcturus fleet.)

Why can't you see it? The batarians have been a spacefaring species for centuries. They almost certainly had enough time to build up substantial fleets during their time as a Citadel species. And they do have dreadnaughts. One of them carted away the Leviathan of Dis when the batarians did the magic hat on it.

The problem is that the Hegemony's strength appears to be tied down in the Terminus Systems, trying in vain to keep order there.

@Hegemony and oppression: the batarians don't get oppressed. Those who aren't batarian and live in Hegemony space are getting oppressed. Batarians aren't (read Revelation if you want to have an impression). Quite the opposite, thanks to the slavery practices the batarians themselves have got quite a few benefits/advantages in their own systems.

At least some batarians don't agree with the slavery. We know this from the Anhur Rebellion. You can't paint an entire species made of hundreds of billions of souls with the same brush.

It says that the batarians were the backers of the slavers and those who wanted slaves in the Anhur Rebellion, the didn't fight to end  it ,they supported slavery. The humans were the ones fighting to end slavery there.

Modifié par OmegaXI, 22 mai 2011 - 10:17 .

[OmegaXI]

This planet being wiped out on one hand slowed the reapers down but also stemmed batarian power and resources to attack humans. It had military bases and ships, and it was not a green world, it was a world being terraformed slowly. From the slave mining operation that was going on it was also like a gulag. Batarian supported pirates were chased in this system by the alliance.

From a military sense of the galaxy united againist the the Reapers, that Batarian world being burnt to a crisp did more for the war effort in slowing down the reapers than anything the could have done fighting the reapers. They would have been consumed and made into husks while not being able to slow down the reapers at all.

While not even considering the Reapers, the batarians just lost military bases, prisions, and their mining gulag weakening their militarys threat to the alliance, the batarians declaring war in a weaken state would not be a good idea on their part since the are already weaker than the alliance. People are acting like this was a green world and colony with 300,000 civilians, which it wasn't.

That planet being wiped out not only saved lives from the Reapers but it also saved human lives from batarian aggression. The Alliance is in a better position with the batarians losing that planet than it would have been with it, The skyllian blitz lead to the batarian getting wiped out on Torfon, the pirate raids they backed and retreated to this system after attacks on human colonies lead to a system getting erased. Maybe the batarians will learn that humans do not go ******-for-tat.

Also if this does make war between the Alliance and batarian more likely then both sides will be building up for that war and when the Reapers do arrive both sides will be in a better position to fight the reapers with the resources they were going to use in a war with each other.

[CroGamer002]

Moiaussi wrote...

It wasn't just 'random C-sec officer.' Bailey didn't react surprised either and in fact pointed out that some people try to play dead to avoid taxes.

Of those you list, many were there when the Normandy went down so they know the truth. Shepard's mother would have been informed. The Council obviously know or it wouldn't be considered a Council coverup. Fist and Mouse are in the information business, so their knowing makes sense. And of course there are rumours that you are dead too. You were out of contact for two years and that starts such rumours.

1st all I mentioned were surprised to see you alive, so you only straighten my claim that most people don't know that Shepard is alive
2nd last time Shepard was seen was on Normandy that was destroyed and both Council and Alliance, even though they never found a body, declared Shepard to be KIA. Talk to Jacob about that.

Mouse is in the information business and even though Shepard was never officially announced as dead, the system lists him as dead. The memorial I admit is evidence but that might have been the Alliance rather than the Council.

Like I said, Shepard is officially declared dead. My evidence is Jacob after Lazarus Project, Spectre status removed from Shepard and many people being surprised to see you alive.

And why wouldn't they officially declare Shepard dead but have him put dead in system?
If nobody knows he's dead then why would Mouse sell Shepard VI? He would be arrested for that. If C-Sec knows that and they let him do that, wouldn't someone report Mouse for selling Shepard VI's? Truth would come out if they don't arrest Mouse.

Given how long it takes to establish colonies to any signifcant degree, 15 years isn't much time at all. There are border disputes here on Earth that have been going on 100+ times longer than that.

Well Batarians are there for over 2000 years, I'm pretty sure they have every reason to be pissed.

The codex says 'batarian backed.' What does that mean to you?

That is backed by some rich Batarians. It doesn't say anything about Batarian Hierarchy.

There is a difference between leaning towards the Alliance and not leaning in favour either side.

What the hell that even means?

What is your source? The Batarians can't be taking colonization very seriously at all if they had been there 1900 years and still hadn't established control of the region. Per the timeline, 200 BCE is when first contact was made, not when the Batarians started colonizing the Verge. Both the Batarians and Humans 'existed' long before their respective first contacts.

Read this:

Codex...
The Citadel Council made first contact with the batarians in approximately 200 BCE, and granted the batarians an embassy on the Citadel a century later. Despite being welcomed into the galactic community, batarian aggression provoked several crises in galactic relations over the years. Sometime around 1785 CE, a batarian fleet bombarded the salarian colony world of Mannovai; in 1913, the Batarian Hegemony annexed the independent asari colony of Esan; and in 2115, Citadel forces skirmished with batarian forces on the planet Enael.

I'm pretty sure they were able to colonize worlds if they could have do all those stuff.

Also if you read Codex entries for Batarians in Arrival DLC, you'll notice that Batarians live in Orwellian society, or simply put Big Brother society.
It's not cheap to have that system of control.

As for being 'greedy,' we know the Turians are on one Alliance border. Have you considered that the Alliance might simply have nowhere else to expand?

They went and rush to expand on already claimed territory.
If Alliance was patient and waited to colonize some other worlds( there's billions of them) they wouldn't be hate as much by Batarians nor other races would think humanity is threat.

But nope, Alliance went for quick route for power.

Modifié par Mesina2, 22 mai 2011 - 11:00 .

[Nightdragon8]

I'm sure its going to be pretty much a Kangaroo Court on the matter. Whats going to happen is he is going to be try ed and found guilty of mass murder.

He is going to be put into jail to wait for his sentence date. Anderson and Hackett are going to delay the execution date so it will coincide with the Reaper invasion.

While all the cameras are on the "execution" its going to film the Reapers coming in and Shep wont be on that planet. When the first shadow starts to fall, his "team" is going to free him and hand him his weapons and armor. Where someone will announce Anderson maybe. Saying "Reaper Threat comfrermed all charges and finding found to be real. thus he was acting in accordance with saving human lives and trillions others to allow time to prepare for this moment. So he is to be fully reinstated as a Commander (if not promoted to captain or admiral) and given operational control over the miltary for the time being.

[corporal doody]

my question is...how come shep not being questioned about the destruction of Purgatory? I mean...inmates have rights too...though no one is gonna shed a tear for them.

[CroGamer002]

corporal doody wrote...

my question is...how come shep not being questioned about the destruction of Purgatory? I mean...inmates have rights too...though no one is gonna shed a tear for them.

It is said that Purgatory is destroyed do to prison riot.

Also that prison is controlled by Blue Suns and not by government or military so reports about Shepard being there are very likely to be destroyed.

Besides reason why that station is destroyed is because he/she was attacked without provocation.


Plus that destruction won't cause a war.