182 réponses à ce sujet

[abaris]

Midey wrote...
Well... TrueAchievements can count only people which registered, nobody else + there is PC version.

Why should the achievement hunters qualify as the hardcore market? Seems to me, they're rather to the nerdy side. I for one never cared much for them, since they have no real merit besides being a gimmick.

[Winterfly]

They listen to a Xbox360....page....wow....They sure are known for their great RPGs and that is why people buy that console. Right? Oh the irony...

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...
The Witcher 2 is definetly a great game... but if anything, it's the anti-old school RPG. A single, fixed and voiced protagonist, with no statistical customization, and action combat? Hell, branching storylines and choice are themselves relatively modern features. 

This. So much this. Ye gods... how many posters have attacked DA2 for having action-y combat and a restricted choice of protagonist who then go on to praise TW2 even as it goes further in that direction.

[AlanC9]

abaris wrote...

Why should the achievement hunters qualify as the hardcore market? Seems to me, they're rather to the nerdy side

Is that supposed to be a contradiction?

[abaris]

AlanC9 wrote...

Is that supposed to be a contradiction?

I tend to think so. If I get an achievement it kinda happens without me actively persuing it. They on the other hand seem to be like collectors, doing everything for the achievements.

BW seems to measure the reception of the game purely by their online data. I only logged in once or twice with DAO. So according to my data, I haven't collected very many achievements and I have abandoned about 50 characters, since I fiddled around with appearances and stats and only played through five of them.

So, the magic data tells them, I didn't finish the game 50 times and didn't collect achievements. All the negative data is there, and nevermind I thouroughly enjoyed my five playthroughs.

[the_one_54321]

I want a certain kind of game that BioWare used to make but no longer does. I don't really care if people call it an RPG or not.

[AlanC9]

abaris wrote...

I tend to think so. If I get an achievement it kinda happens without me actively persuing it. They on the other hand seem to be like collectors, doing everything for the achievements.

I'm not sure how that makes them nerds. Or rather, any more nerdy than we are.

BW seems to measure the reception of the game purely by their online data. I only logged in once or twice with DAO. So according to my data, I haven't collected very many achievements and I have abandoned about 50 characters, since I fiddled around with appearances and stats and only played through five of them

So, the magic data tells them, I didn't finish the game 50 times and didn't collect achievements. All the negative data is there, and nevermind I thouroughly enjoyed my five playthroughs.

If that's the case, then not logging in is foolish. However, I'm not sure it is the case. The EA Privacy Policy, which supersedes the EULA, explicitly says that they can collect data that isn't to be linked to your personal account without bothering to ask you for your permission. DAUpdater seems to burn a little bandwidth all the time. They might be collecting data on everyone regardless of logins. They certainly should be.

Edit: come to think of it, DG said that the data collection is by installations, not by logins. This was back when he let slip that elves and dwarves were not popular with players.

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 mai 2011 - 10:42 .

[ZombiePowered]

"Whilst the game was far from perfect, its imperfections were what gave it beauty. It was like Billie Piper – adorable for its faults, beautiful for its mistakes."

Everyone's homework is to find what is wrong with this quote (hint: it's the entire thing).

I really fail to understand how nostalgia for traditional RPG mechanics that were a pain in the ass qualifies as an argument for how classic RPGs were great. Games are not beautiful for their flaws--they are relentlessly criticized for them. A problem in a game is just that: a problem. People need to stop defending imperfect game mechanics just because they're "classic".

Modifié par ZombiePowered, 23 mai 2011 - 09:48 .

[the_one_54321]

It's not nostalgia. Gameplay in NWN was fantastic. If they stuck an imitation of that system (they can't copy D&D anymore, for legal reasons) onto a DA party control system we would have one of the best "RPG" gameplay mechanics ever.

[abaris]

AlanC9 wrote...

If that's the case, then not logging in is foolish. However, I'm not sure it is the case. The EA Privacy Policy, which supersedes the EULA, explicitly says that they can collect data that isn't to be linked to your personal account without bothering to ask you for your permission. DAUpdater seems to burn a little bandwidth all the time. They might be collecting data on everyone regardless of logins. They certainly should be.

Why is it foolish to not let them collect data? And you can turn the internet thingy off in the config of the game. I always do. I'm not particularly paranoid when it comes to my online habits, but I don't see the need for data collection either. Especially if there's nothing for me to be gained.

And I'm pretty sure I'm not inadvertently sending something out, since my firewall doesn't ring the bells. I'm talking about the PC of course, not sure what a console does.

Anyway, I'm not in the same boat as you. I certainly don't think, they should collect data regardless of logins. There's already too much data collection going on as it is.

[AlanC9]

abaris wrote...
Why is it foolish to not let them collect data? And you can turn the internet thingy off in the config of the game. I always do. I'm not particularly paranoid when it comes to my online habits, but I don't see the need for data collection either. Especially if there's nothing for me to be gained.

You gain by them having accurate information. You just said that that Bio's not knowing what you actually do is a problem, because it's causing them to make bad decisions.

And I'm pretty sure I'm not inadvertently sending something out, since my firewall doesn't ring the bells. I'm talking about the PC of course, not sure what a console does.

Doesn't DAUpdater have to be on the firewall exception list anyway?

[ZombiePowered]

the_one_54321 wrote...

It's not nostalgia. Gameplay in NWN was fantastic. If they stuck an imitation of that system (they can't copy D&D anymore, for legal reasons) onto a DA party control system we would have one of the best "RPG" gameplay mechanics ever.

How did combat work in NWN again? It's been years since I played the first one.

I'm not sure if it's like DA:O and NWN2, but if it is then it's the same as combat in DA2--you auto-attack and use special moves. Things are just faster and have smoother animations now, which is how it should be.

[the_one_54321]

EA/BioWare's data mining activities are to seek out and nail down the majority. That hurts me because I want BioWare to be a niche market developer. Once they are no longer a niche market developer (like now, pretty much), I stop buying their games (like I have now, pretty much).

[TheMadCat]

In Exile wrote...

Travie wrote...

There will always be companies that skimp on complexity to save cash, making a sub-par game.

Feel sorry for them, but also realize that there will always be developers like CDprojekt that make quality RPGs (like The Witcher 2) and don't compromise on features to make a quick buck.

The Witcher 2 is definetly a great game... but if anything, it's the anti-old school RPG. A single, fixed and voiced protagonist, with no statistical customization, and action combat? Hell, branching storylines and choice are themselves relatively modern features.

I always thought it did fairly well sticking with the traditional action RPG mold which always went more with skill and talent trees for character development rather then stats playing the major role which you see in more traditional turn based and dice rollers and the twitch combat solidifies it's spot as an aRPG. A single, fixed protagonist though? Some of the definitive classics in the RPG genre used single, fixed protagonists so I don't know if I'd use that as a point.

If people are looking for The Witcher games to bring them back to the land of Baulder Gate's and Icewind Dale's then they're certianly misguided. But I don't see The Witcher as anti-old school RPG unless games such as the Baulder Gate's and Icewind Dale's are the only thing you're willing to view as old-school RPG's.

[In Exile]

TheMadCat wrote...
I always thought it did fairly well sticking with the traditional action RPG mold which always went more with skill and talent trees for character development rather then stats playing the major role which you see in more traditional turn based and dice rollers and the twitch combat solidifies it's spot as an aRPG. A single, fixed protagonist though? Some of the definitive classics in the RPG genre used single, fixed protagonists so I don't know if I'd use that as a point.

What would a classical action RPG be? I can't keep track of these genre labels; I thought an action-RPG was the hated deviation from an old school RPG.

If people are looking for The Witcher games to bring them back to the land of Baulder Gate's and Icewind Dale's then they're certianly misguided. But I don't see The Witcher as anti-old school RPG unless games such as the Baulder Gate's and Icewind Dale's are the only thing you're willing to view as old-school RPG's.

I thought that was what an old school RPG had to be. I'm being serious. I only started playing RPGs circa 2003 so I don't know what "old school" is supposed to be.

[marshalleck]

In Exile wrote...

What would a classical action RPG be? I can't keep track of these genre labels; I thought an action-RPG was the hated deviation from an old school RPG.

Deus Ex? System Shock 2?

[TheMadCat]

In Exile wrote...

What would a classical action RPG be? I can't keep track of these genre labels; I thought an action-RPG was the hated deviation from an old school RPG.

I thought that was what an old school RPG had to be. I'm being serious. I
only started playing RPGs circa 2003 so I don't know what "old
school" is supposed to be.

Well the game that popularized this particular sub-genre was Diablo and considering the game came out in '96 (There had been similar games going back to the late 80's) and was very well received I figure it's fair to label this area an old school classic. If you actually sit there and strip away all the layers of The Witcher games down to their bare bones you'll find their basic mechanics are similar to games like Diablo and Titan Quest, they throw attributes and most stats out the window and instead use both character level and skill/talent system, along with loot and gear, in order to define your character and it's effectiveness and uses a real time twitch based system for combat rather then your dice rollers or turn based games.

RPG is to broad a genre to really isolate anything in particular as the definitive classics which is why RPG's ended up getting broken down into various sub-genres. Diablo and Icewind Dale are played two different ways, but at their core both function in a similar manner and have their roots in what's loosely defined as an RPG. So yeah, I look at The Witcher 2 and it's predecessor and see it sticking to the traditonal core of the classics on the action side of the RPG genre.

[marshalleck]

Err, Titan's Quest has stats and talents. Did you mean something else?

[TheMadCat]

marshalleck wrote...

Err, Titan's Quest has stats and talents. Did you mean something else?

Eh, not really though I did forget it used some stats. An ARPG can have stats, it's not some cardinal sin if they do. It just not as necessary as in western RPG's where combat functions almost solely through those stats. 

Modifié par TheMadCat, 24 mai 2011 - 05:47 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I was under the impression that the Action RPG genre actually got it's roots from early JRPGs like Seiken Densetsu and even Legend of Zelda.

Of course, the Action RPG genre is easily the most diverse sub genre of RPGs out there, so I might be wrong.

[Zanallen]

mrcrusty wrote...

I was under the impression that the Action RPG genre actually got it's roots from early JRPGs like Seiken Densetsu and even Legend of Zelda.

Of course, the Action RPG genre is easily the most diverse sub genre of RPGs out there, so I might be wrong.

Secret of Mana was freakin' sweet. Secret of Evermore was less so...Though the bazooka and laser-equipped toaster dog were both awesome.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Zanallen wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

I was under the impression that the Action RPG genre actually got it's roots from early JRPGs like Seiken Densetsu and even Legend of Zelda.

Of course, the Action RPG genre is easily the most diverse sub genre of RPGs out there, so I might be wrong.

Secret of Mana was freakin' sweet. Secret of Evermore was less so...Though the bazooka and laser-equipped toaster dog were both awesome.

I'll be honest, I haven't played them. The majority of my JRPG experience lies with the early Final Fantasy games (basically 4-9 and Tactics) plus the Golden Sun and Fire Emblem games for the GBA as well as a sprinkle of Pokemon.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 24 mai 2011 - 06:19 .

[Zanallen]

mrcrusty wrote...

I'll be honest, I haven't played them. The majority of my JRPG experience lies with the early Final Fantasy games (IV, V, VI and Tactics) plus the Golden Sun and Fire Emblem games for the GBA as well as a sprinkle of Pokemon.

If you get the chance, I recommend playing Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger and Suikoden 1 or 2 (Preferably 2, but it is hard to get a hold of).

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Zanallen wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

I'll be honest, I haven't played them. The majority of my JRPG experience lies with the early Final Fantasy games (IV, V, VI and Tactics) plus the Golden Sun and Fire Emblem games for the GBA as well as a sprinkle of Pokemon.

If you get the chance, I recommend playing Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger and Suikoden 1 or 2 (Preferably 2, but it is hard to get a hold of).

Thanks for the recommends. Will check it out if I have spare time to pry away from Witcher 2.



I've actually played Chrono Trigger already, but I didn't finish it and that was so long ago. Lol.