510 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Maybe it's the whole 3 years gap between Act 2 and 3 that really pisses me off. If it was a few months, I could buy him not doing much if anything. I still wouldn't like him as a protagonist, but I'd be more forgiving.

I do agree that the time gaps are terrible for the story. Everything makes much more sense if you think of the gaps as mere months instead of years.

[jlb524]

Hake spends three years attending noble house parties, obviously.

[TEWR]

the time gaps would've been more tolerable if Varric said to Cassandra "I'll tell you the most important details about the Champion."


At least then it would be implied he didn't sit on his ass for years on end.

[Zjarcal]

jlb524 wrote...

Hake spends three years attending noble house parties, obviously.

Or at the Blooming Rose. 

[TEWR]

Zjarcal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Hake spends three years attending noble house parties, obviously.

Or at the Blooming Rose. 

or he's attending noble house parties at the Blooming Rose.

[jlb524]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

the time gaps would've been more tolerable if Varric said to Cassandra "I'll tell you the most important details about the Champion."


At least then it would be implied he didn't sit on his ass for years on end.

That's what I assumed anyway. 

Zjarcal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Hake spends three years attending noble house parties, obviously.

Or at the Blooming Rose. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

My Hawke only goes there to hang with Isabela...she doesn't buy anything. 

Modifié par jlb524, 22 mai 2011 - 01:06 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Meredith didn't care about the Qunari. She viewed the real threat as being the mages. A couple of Hanged Man patrons, who weren't drunk, say that this is what Meredith explicitly said.

Doesn't really answer if the Arishok tried or not, which I think is significant info.
Plus, since Meredith had little to no character development, having her be there and be more active / present, would have been much better than only hanged man patrons talking about her.

Probably when the Qunari invaded they brought the original farther in to help convert people and serve as a morale boost, and then when the war started to turn I guess it just got lost in the shuffle.

Well if they use it in wars to convert, then why don't they make copies? I mean, they invaded all of Northern Thedas and were planning to invade the entire continent. Did they really think that one book is enough?

Plus, it always seemed to me that the Qunari were highly cultivated, or I assume literate. why do they have only one copy (which is what it seems to imply)? Things that are not explained, when they should have.

I'm not sure I understand. The Qunari landed not of their own volition, and didn't want to sack Kirkwall. It wasn't their objective. It was only after zealots and fanatics attacked the Qunari behind closed doors that the Arishok grew fed up with it.

I know, but really what happened in the larger scheme of things?

Again, it seemed more like a plot convenience to have the Qunari somewhere, and have them seek something, to justify their presence in the game. When, it doesn't make that much sense.

I mean, do the Qunari really think that the Arishok would be the best at handling a diplomatically delicate situation like this? Don't they think it would have been smart to send other kinds of Qunari to help him in skills that he does not possess?

Though granted, that could be  more due to Qunari flaws in-universe than a game hting (though it could also be laziness, as that would mean making different models / clothes).

Also keep in mind he kept losing men to the Tal-Vashoth and zealots.

And was still able to take over the city in minutes?
That's pretty impressive.

The gas kills too. He tells you this. The Qunari do not waste resources, human life being among them. Sten says this in banter with Loghain.

Why would they ever think that Templars can be a ressource when they are chosen for their zealotry in faith?
Doesn't he realize how weak his position is? That reinforcements from Par Vollen could take weeks?
Was he really planing to let the Templars be, because he doens't want to waste a ressource that could destroy him right now?

Would have made much more sense if he blew the gallows up, neutralizing Kirkwall's main force, and rushed to the viscount office.

But considering he can say to Meredith and Orsino that he would lead, I'd say he did act like a leader.

No, that's more him acting like a pretentious arrogant idiot. Who was he leading exactly except his band of 3?
At best, he was telling Meredith to give him some time to try his luck (and apparently she gets fed up anyways and storms in without a signal).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 mai 2011 - 01:11 .

[Xilizhra]

Why would they ever think that Templars can be a ressource when they are chosen for their zealotry in faith?

Well, given the fair number of rebels in Act 3, this zealotry clearly isn't universal.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

- I don't
quite understand what the Arishok was doing. Why didn't he use his
explosives? Worried about civilian casualties? Ok, then why didn't he
use it or the madness enducing gas on say the Gallows, where Kirkwall's
largest military force is based? And where the mages are, whom we know
are the one thing that turned the tide of the previous war.

I think that a lot of this is because he was nearly insane himself with rage by this time.

I'd think that it's precisely because he is enraged, that's he'd unleash hell. At least on an obvious and very threatening military target.

ipgd wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

- I am not really sure I understand the tome of Koslun. Is it the original? If so, how in the world did the Oerlesians steal it in the first place? If it's a copy, then why is it so important for the Qunari that they'd risk war over it?  It wasn't explained and it was kind of a meh plot twist.

It is explained. Orlais acquired it during the Exalted Marches against the Qunari and were about to hand it back over as some sort of peace offering when it was stolen.

If it's so important to them, why did they have it in the frontlines for Orlais to sieze it in the first place?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 mai 2011 - 01:10 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

Why would they ever think that Templars can be a ressource when they are chosen for their zealotry in faith?

Well, given the fair number of rebels in Act 3, this zealotry clearly isn't universal.

All of them were arguing on the basis of Chantry doctrine though. They were still zealous in their faith.

I highly doubt the the Arishok could seriously convert Templars to the Qun en masse. specially not when they overpower him. 

[Xilizhra]

I'd think that it's preciely because he is enrgaed, that's he unleash hell. At least on an obvious and very threatening military target.

They'd have to get down to the docks, steal some ships, head them over to the Gallows, weather whatever defenses it has (which would definitely include artillerist mages), and then somehow attack it. They don't have ships with cannons, and while improvised bombs could be made, I don't see how effective they'd be against a whole tower of mages. Plus the templars.
The Arishok's strategy was to paralyze the city's defenses by capturing all of the nobles. It seems he underestimated Meredith, as well as committing the major tactical error of killing Dumar way too fast.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 22 mai 2011 - 01:12 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Hake spends three years attending noble house parties, obviously.

Or at the Blooming Rose. 

More likely.

Noble parties could entail networking and alliance building amognst the discontent. Too much work for Hawke.
Ploughing (yea I like the word) in the blooming rose is more his / her thing.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 mai 2011 - 01:17 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'd think that it's preciely because he is enrgaed, that's he unleash hell. At least on an obvious and very threatening military target.

They'd have to get down to the docks, steal some ships, head them over to the Gallows, weather whatever defenses it has (which would definitely include artillerist mages), and then somehow attack it. They don't have ships with cannons, and while improvised bombs could be made, I don't see how effective they'd be against a whole tower of mages. Plus the templars.

A sneak attack at night could have been done. Use the gas to make them kill each other, at least as a delaying tactic.

And BTW, we actually see a Qunari "death squad" in the gallows trying to catch a mage. In broad day light I might add.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 mai 2011 - 01:17 .

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


Doesn't relaly answer if the Arishok tried or not, which I think is significant info.
Plus, since Meredith had little to no character development, having her be there and be more active / present, would have been much better than only hanged man patrons talking about her.

I don't think he really cared. He didn't contact anyone for those years he was there, preferring to be an isolationist. Then, when the gas recipe was stolen, he contacted the Viscount. The Viscount was shocked that he was even talking to anyone outside of the compound.

But, I do understand the desire to see Meredith (and for me, Orsino) introduced earlier so they could've been properly developed.

Well if they use it in wars to convert, then why don't they make copies? I mean, they invaded all of Northern Thedas and were planning to invade the entire continent. Did they really think that one book is enough?

Plus, it always seemed to me that the Qunari were highly cultivated, or I assume literate. why do they have only one copy (which is what it seems to imply)? Things that are not explained, when they should have.

Maybe they did make copies but brought the real thing farther inland and left copies all around. Or maybe they were planning on setting up a new capital and wanted to bring a historical relic to it and keep it safe. I don't know, this is really something that we can't say is due to the folly of Qunari thinking since they're kept in a shroud of mystery. Which I like.

I know, but really what happened in the larger scheme of things?

Again, it seemed more like a plot convenience to have the Qunari somewhere, and have them seek something, to justify their presence in the game. When, it doesn't make that much sense.

I mean, do the Qunari really think that the Arishok would be the best at handling a diplomatically delicate situation like this? Don't they think it would have been smart to send other kinds of Qunari to help him in skills that he does not possess?

Though granted, that could be  more due to Qunari flaws in-universe than a game hting (though it could also be laziness, as that would mean making different models / clothes).

We don't really know how the Triumvirate governs. For all we know, the Arishok role could be one that is adept at handling diplomatic situations. Both in their own view and in the view of other diplomats. Like I said, this isn't so much a flaw as it is we still know almost nothing about the Qunari. Which is good, as I've said.

And was still able to take over the city in minutes?
That's pretty impressive.

That it is

He had been planning it. After the death of Saemus, the guard says that the Arishok was thinking, considering the Demands of the Qun, and the guard says "as a respected enemy know this. Leave the city."

Why would they ever think that Templars can be a ressource when they are chosen for their zealotry in faith?
Doesn't he realize how weak his position is? That reinforcements from Par Vollen could take weeks?
Was he really planing to let the Templars be, because he doens't want to waste a ressource that could destroy him right now?

Would have made much more sense if he blew the gallows up, neutralizing Kirkwall's main force, and rushed to the viscount office.

An Arvaarad is basically a Templar, so they probably felt that they could improve the role of the Gallows and the Templars. Plus, remember you said he was able to take over the city in minutes. That means slaughtering the City Guard. I doubt the Templars would've been much of a threat to them either. Numbers =/= skill.

No, that's more him acting like a pretentious arrogant idiot. Who was he leading exactly except his band of 3?
At best, he was telling Meredith to give him some time to try his luck (and apparently she gets fed up anyways and storms in without a signal).

Let me be sure here. You don't like how he doesn't lead, but when he says "I'll lead." you don't like it?

There were also Templars present that Meredith had brought over, so Hawke was commanding Meredith, her Templars, Orsino, and possibly Bethany (don't know about Carver. He always becomes a GW in my games)

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 22 mai 2011 - 01:22 .

[Xilizhra]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'd think that it's preciely because he is enrgaed, that's he unleash hell. At least on an obvious and very threatening military target.

They'd have to get down to the docks, steal some ships, head them over to the Gallows, weather whatever defenses it has (which would definitely include artillerist mages), and then somehow attack it. They don't have ships with cannons, and while improvised bombs could be made, I don't see how effective they'd be against a whole tower of mages. Plus the templars.

A sneak attack at night could have been done. Use the gas to make them kill each other, at least as a delaying tactic.

And BTW, we actually see a Qunari "death squad" in the gallows trying to catch a mage. In broad day light I might add.

Everyone knows about the saar-qamek now, though, given that one elf's attack. And it's not at all reliable; Hawke and company are only minorly inconvenienced, as are most of said elf's mercenaries. It's the sort of thing you'd have to be certain of to make work, and they wouldn't be.

As for the death squad, that wasn't during a siege. And if the Gallows was sneak attacked... they'd only hit templars, all the mages are locked up. The templars would stall while the mages were brought out.

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Noble parties could entail networking and alliance building amognst the discontent. Too much work for Hawke.

Ciera Hawke +100 Rivalry

Ploughing (yea I like the word) in the blooming rose is more his / her thing.

Ciera Hawke +50 Friendship

[ipgd]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If it's so important to them, why did they have it in the frontlines for Orlais to sieze it in the first place?

We don't know whether they did or didn't? I imagine it was covertly acquired in order to demoralize them.

[AngelicMachinery]

Is it bad? Not really, it is.... mediocre though.

It had been a while since I played DAO when I popped in DA2, and I thought to myself "This is a decent game." and I had no real complaints outside of the rehashed dungeons. I just picked up the ultimate edition and started playing Origins again, and I noticed just how different they were by comparison.

I will still play DA2 and I will still enjoy it, but, if you pick it up expecting it to be origins you'll end up just getting aggravated.

[TEWR]

ipgd wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If it's so important to them, why did they have it in the frontlines for Orlais to sieze it in the first place?

We don't know whether they did or didn't? I imagine it was covertly acquired in order to demoralize them.

This would make sense considering Orlais abounds with spies, bards, assassins and whatnot. Hell the Antivan Crows could've acquired it!

[Alpha1234]

After playing The Witcher 2, i am amazed at how much work they have put in the details of that game! Everything is fluid and dynamic with a setting that sucks you right in. I didnt realize just HOW sterile, dull and unimaginative DA 2 really was until after i feasted my eyes on TW2.

Bioware have to improve!

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I don't think he really cared.

Which makes him kind of stupid.
And the Qunari in general for thinking that an arishok is suitable for the task.

Maybe they did make copies but brought the real thing farther inland and left copies all around. Or maybe they were planning on setting up a new capital and wanted to bring a historical relic to it and keep it safe. I don't know, this is really something that we can't say is due to the folly of Qunari thinking since they're kept in a shroud of mystery. Which I like.

Eh, too much shroud of mystery doesn't really makes it clear why I should care and like you said, makes the Qunari look kind of crazy.

I'd much rather have more info revealed and a stronger grasp on their motivation.

We don't really know how the Triumvirate governs. For all we know, the Arishok role could be one that is adept at handling diplomatic situations. Both in their own view and in the view of other diplomats. Like I said, this isn't so much a flaw as it is we still know almost nothing about the Qunari. Which is good, as I've said.

I don't think it's good. Some ambiguity is fine, but if they are to be a main faction in the game, I prefer more info. Specifically about what's at hand right now, like the Tome, which apparently was supposed to be a plot twist ( a very meh one).

And seeing how you just said that the Airshok didnt' even care to be dilpmatic until his gas was stolen, then meh at him being suited to handled dilpomacy.

That it is

He had been planning it. After the death of Saemus, the guard says that the Arishok was thinking, considering the Demands of the Qun, and the guard says "as a respected enemy know this. Leave the city."

Was being sarcastic. It wasn't that impressive to me. I don't understand his long term thinking.
What was he planning exactly?

An Arvaarad is basically a Templar, so they probably felt that they could improve the role of the Gallows and the Templars. Plus, remember you said he was able to take over the city in minutes. That means slaughtering the City Guard.

Templars are much more powerful and numerous than City guards. First.
Second, Templars strongly believe in the Maker. Why would they ever convert to the Qun en masse? When they overpower him?

No, an Arvaarad is a servant of the Qun. A Templar is the servant of the Chantry and the Maker. Radically different.

Let me be sure here. You don't like how he doesn't lead, but when he says "I'll lead." you don't like it?

Yes, because saying something and actually doing it, are two extremily different things. I could claim to be leading my siblings to the mall, that hardly makes me a leader.

Indeed, saying that you're leading when you're not, is just being an arrogant fool.

There were also Templars present that Meredith had brought over, so Hawke was commanding Meredith, her Templars, Orsino, and possibly Bethany (don't know about Carver. He always becomes a GW in my games)

To give him a few minutes to try his luck (and she ignores his supposed " commands" anyways). Plus, Meredith seemed to be somewhat concerned about hostages initially. So there is really nothing to suggest that Meredith actually followed Hawke's "commands" because he said so.  Especially sicne he's a nobody at this point.

[Xilizhra]

After playing The Witcher 2, i am amazed at how much work they have put in the details of that game! Everything is fluid and dynamic with a setting that sucks you right in. I didnt realize just HOW sterile, dull and unimaginative DA 2 really was until after i feasted my eyes on TW2.

Imagine that you're playing as a 50-year-old woman sleeping with a bunch of men.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 22 mai 2011 - 01:31 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

To the OP:

If you like the demo and didn't like what you call the sluggish combat of DA:O then buy DA2. Let us know what you think of the game after you've played it.

Have fun.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 22 mai 2011 - 01:33 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...
And if the Gallows was sneak attacked... they'd only hit templars, all the mages are locked up. The templars would stall while the mages were brought out.

No, because driving the Templars insane would make them fight mages.

And could allow a second death squad team to release gas within the gallows and try to get some mages. It doesn't have to be a guaranteed success and wipe out, A diversionary tactic rather. And since the Arishok did not seem to think much about the long term that much and risked a lot including a complete war in Thedas, I doubt he would mind taking a few risks.

[KnightofPhoenix]

ipgd wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If it's so important to them, why did they have it in the frontlines for Orlais to sieze it in the first place?

We don't know whether they did or didn't? I imagine it was covertly acquired in order to demoralize them.

Because an Orlesian bard would be able to blend in, in Par Vollen?

In any case, it could be anything, including a romantic tale of Tal vashoth trying to express freedom. Doesn't matter.
What matters is that we don't really know why it's important and what's the logic behind having one copy or about caring that much if there are multiple copies.

So at the end, I don't really understand what the Qunari were doing.