510 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
And if the Gallows was sneak attacked... they'd only hit templars, all the mages are locked up. The templars would stall while the mages were brought out.

No, because driving the Templars insane would make them fight mages.

And could allow a second death squad team to release gas within the gallows and try to get some mages. It doesn't have to be a guaranteed success and wipe out, A diversionary tactic rather. And since the Arishok did not seem to think much about the long term that much and risked a lot including a complete war in Thedas, I doubt he would mind taking a few risks.

Maybe. Even if it worked, the templars could easily just start fighting each other, and the mages could blow them away from a defensible position while more templars guarded them from higher ground.
Plus, the death squad only made it into the courtyard.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...
Maybe. Even if it worked, the templars could easily just start fighting each other, and the mages could blow them away from a defensible position while more templars guarded them from higher ground.
Plus, the death squad only made it into the courtyard.

What the Arishok said did not imply that those intoxicated kill each other. And indeed, the crazy mercs we fight did not kill each other. I don't know how it works, I think technology is the new "magic did it" for the Qunari.

With the chaos and diversion created by the gas (the Qunari are unaffected by it), I htink they could sneak in a few bombs in there.

In any case, it's certianly a risk. A much lesser risk than thinking that the Templars would leave him alone and not using the element of surprise to try and inflict heavy damage on them.

[ipgd]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

ipgd wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If it's so important to them, why did they have it in the frontlines for Orlais to sieze it in the first place?

We don't know whether they did or didn't? I imagine it was covertly acquired in order to demoralize them.

Because an Orlesian bard would be able to blend in, in Par Vollen?

In any case, it could be anything, including a romantic tale of Tal vashoth trying to express freedom. Doesn't matter.
What matters is that we don't really know why it's important and what's the logic behind having one copy or about caring that much if there are multiple copies.

So at the end, I don't really understand what the Qunari were doing. 

One could, were they posing as viddathari.

Multiple copies doesn't really reduce the significance of the original piece.

[Xilizhra]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Maybe. Even if it worked, the templars could easily just start fighting each other, and the mages could blow them away from a defensible position while more templars guarded them from higher ground.
Plus, the death squad only made it into the courtyard.

What the Arishok said did not imply that those intoxicated kill each other. And indeed, the crazy mercs we fight did not kill each other. I don't know how it works, I think technology is the new "magic did it" for the Qunari.

With the chaos and diversion created by the gas (the Qunari are unaffected by it), I htink they could sneak in a few bombs in there.

In any case, it's certianly a risk. A much lesser risk than thinking that the Templars would leave him alone and not using the element of surprise to try and inflict heavy damage on them.

I just think that the gas is as unreliable as hell and that's why the qunari don't use it more often.

Also, bombs need to be set, and I'm not sure how effective purely black powder bombs even are. The whole thing just seems extremely likely to get all of the qunari attacking killed for little benefit.

[KnightofPhoenix]

ipgd wrote...
Multiple copies doesn't really reduce the significance of the original piece.

And yet they tolerated its dissapearance for 3 centuries without risking to declare war.

And now they do with no hope of achieving a real victory in Kirkwall?

[Chickenhawked]

Why are you guys even debating the story when, according to DA2, there are 345987349574395743958732598327543255798325725878787643875435 blood mages in Kirkwall? They could have simply left the city and formed their own nation, or left for Tevinter. The entire conflict would have been avoided. Even at the very end they could have simply teleported (and, according to DA2, mages CAN teleport) out of the city. Why was Kirkwall so important to them? It's easily the most corrupted, unattractive location in all of Dragon Age.

Don't tell me that Meredith would have taken her army of templars and left Kirkwall to go hunt down all 43598734954395874359837583753 of the blood mages across the Free Marches, because that's ridiculous; there would be no one left in Kirkwall, and she'd get wrecked by Tevinter.

Hell, explain this: Why didn't Hawke move his ass out of Kirkwall as soon as the excavation was over? He could have grabbed Bethany and his mom (or his brother if you went that way) and simply moved to Tevinter. An extremely happy ending.

The whole story is just stupid and forced. I literally became nauseous over the amount of blood mages in EVERY cranny of the game.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...
I just think that the gas is as unreliable as hell and that's why the qunari don't use it more often.

Also, bombs need to be set, and I'm not sure how effective purely black powder bombs even are. The whole thing just seems extremely likely to get all of the qunari attacking killed for little benefit.

I recall the Arishok saying that this will be a new weapon that they will field.

They could use the same barrels that gassed a quarter of the city. It's gas, it doesn't need to explode, just released.

The entire plan of the Arishok is likely to get them all killed for little benefit and it's only by coincidence that they can get what they want ( which they still lose if they do and for some reason, no one cares about their violation of the treaty). So does that really sound crazy in comparision to the whole plan?

I think a well planned sneak attack at night could have inflicted a lot of damage. And if not, it was a worthy attempt to weaken the Qunari's greatest threat.

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Which makes him kind of stupid.
And the Qunari in general for thinking that an arishok is suitable for the task. 

The Qunari themselves didn't care. I doubt it was going to be anything more than a "Here's your Tome."

"Thank you. Panahedan."

*part ways*

It was taking place on the seas as we know, so I doubt much diplomacy would've happened.

Eh, too much shroud of mystery doesn't really makes it clear why I should care and like you said, makes the Qunari look kind of crazy.

I'd much rather have more info revealed and a stronger grasp on their motivation.


I don't think it's good. Some ambiguity is fine, but if they are to be a main faction in the game, I prefer more info. Specifically about what's at hand right now, like the Tome, which apparently was supposed to be a plot twist ( a very meh one).

And seeing how you just said that the Airshok didnt' even care to be dilpmatic until his gas was stolen, then meh at him being suited to handled dilpomacy.

I never said the Qunari look crazy. Anyway, difference of opinion on the liking of the Qunari's shroud. Also, he let the gas be stolen, to show the price of greed.


I'd also like to point out that to me, it was obvious that Isabella had something to do with the Qunari landing. She got caught in a storm. The Qunari got caught in a storm. Patrons at the Hanged Man mention that the Qunari Dreadnought was fighting another ship. Isabella gets nervous near the Compound.

When the Qunari mentioned that a relic was stolen that cinched it. It was never a plot twist to me. Maybe to Hawke and company but not to me.

Was being sarcastic. It wasn't that impressive to me. I don't understand his long term thinking.
What was he planning exactly?

Sarcasm doesn't transfer well over text y'know. 

Anyway, his long term goal? Fix the postule of a city that was Kirkwall. At least he was being proactive.

Templars are much more powerful and numerous than City guards. First.
Second, Templars strongly believe in the Maker. Why would they ever convert to the Qun en masse? When they overpower him?

No, an Arvaarad is a servant of the Qun. A Templar is the servant of the Chantry and the Maker. Radically different.

 We don't know that the Templars overpower the Qunari. I'd assume that the Qunari could slaughter tens of thousands of Templars. Plus, who knows how many Templars have been affected by the lyrium.

They give two choices to people: Convert.... or die.

"You can live or you can die. That's called coercion you know." --- Cliff Fittir.

Yes, because saying something and actually doing it, are two extremily different things. I could claim to be leading my siblings to the mall, that hardly makes me a leader.

Indeed, saying that you're leading when you're not, is just being an arrogant fool.

I'd blame Meredith for not following the leader. I wouldn't call Hawke a poor leader considering Meredith wasn't even willing to work with Orsino prior to Act 2's climax (the dialogue between the two pretty much says this). Hawke wasn't a nobody. He was a noble whose name had been turning up many times in reports given to Meredith.

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Maybe. Even if it worked, the templars could easily just start fighting each other, and the mages could blow them away from a defensible position while more templars guarded them from higher ground.
Plus, the death squad only made it into the courtyard.

What the Arishok said did not imply that those intoxicated kill each other. And indeed, the crazy mercs we fight did not kill each other. I don't know how it works, I think technology is the new "magic did it" for the Qunari.

With the chaos and diversion created by the gas (the Qunari are unaffected by it), I htink they could sneak in a few bombs in there.

In any case, it's certianly a risk. A much lesser risk than thinking that the Templars would leave him alone and not using the element of surprise to try and inflict heavy damage on them.

actually the Arishok does say the gas will make enemy turn against each other. He says "the gas kills, but not before he kills his allies in a blind rage. So the more powerful the enemy, the deadlier he is to his allies."

Or something to that effect.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
The Qunari themselves didn't care. I doubt it was going to be anything more than a "Here's your Tome."

"Thank you. Panahedan."

*part ways*

It was taking place on the seas as we know, so I doubt much diplomacy would've happened.

Um, if they thought that it would be this easy, then wow. It apparently took them more than a century to get Orlais to give it back and now they think they can get it in a few words?

Especially when they do not reveal why they were in Kirkwall in the first place??

I mean, I know the Qunari think everyone else is stupid, but come on.

When the Qunari mentioned that a relic was stolen that cinched it. It was never a plot twist to me. Maybe to Hawke and company but not to me.

Not to me either, but I still do not understand why. To risk so much for something that is unexplained. 

I like the Qunari being alien, but I think this is pushing it. Just my opinion.

Anyway, his long term goal? Fix the postule of a city that was Kirkwall. At least he was being proactive.

Ok, and what was he planning to do to the inevitable retaliations?
Does he think that the Qunari can reinforce his position quickly enough? Does he think he can pacify the population with a meager force? 

Can the Arishok unilaterraly declare war without even consulting the other 2 Qunari leaders? Who are powerful enough to kick him out? Why would they agree to start a war over his incompetence?

And since he leaves with the tome and criminal, then obviously he doesn't care that much about Kirkwall (it just pisses him off). So how was taking over the city related to his initial goal? Or did he forget about it? Wasn't it supposed to be very important?

 We don't know that the Templars overpower the Qunari. I'd assume that the Qunari could slaughter tens of thousands of Templars. Plus, who knows how many Templars have been affected by the lyrium.

Actually we do, as the Arishok apparently only ended up with the Viscount office and the Templars plowed through and reached the summit of the city. That seems to imply that Qunari positions in the rest of the city were very weakened if not compeltely eradicated.

Unless for some reason the Arishok did not count on Meredith and her Templars intervening, so he didn't prepare defensive fortifications all along the huge stairs that seperate lower and higher Kirkwall (very defensible position, it's even designed to be so). So either the Templars overpowered them (and I don't see them not being able to handle what would be at best a few hundred Qunari who did not use their tech), or the Arishok is incredibly stupid.

I'd blame Meredith for not following the leader. I wouldn't call Hawke a poor leader considering Meredith wasn't even willing to work with Orsino prior to Act 2's climax (the dialogue between the two pretty much says this). Hawke wasn't a nobody. He was a noble whose name had been turning up many times in reports given to Meredith.

A noble doesn't mean a thing if he doens't have anyone under his command (and he does not and never did). Meredith is under no obligation to follow him and if she wanted, she could have just killed him or left him to die and no one would have noticed. So if she would choose to follow him, it's due to some charisma or because Meredith thinks Hawke is a leader worth following, which would be bs as she doesn't know him and she ignores him anyways.

So no, Meredith merely listening to Hawke's advice for a few minutes and then ignoring them, does not mean that Hawke ordered her around no matter how much he claims that he did.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 mai 2011 - 02:18 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
actually the Arishok does say the gas will make enemy turn against each other. He says "the gas kills, but not before he kills his allies in a blind rage. So the more powerful the enemy, the deadlier he is to his allies."

Or something to that effect.

That seemed to imply more that those intoxicated would attack those who are not. That's why we had crazy mercs coordinating an attack against us and not killing each other.

[Dragoonlordz]

Tbh after living in Kirkwall for 10 years, who wouldn't want the dam place nuked. It's the most depressing place in the DA universe I imagine. Nuke and rebuild, Anders did them a favour.

[Rawgrim]

You lived there in less than 7 years actually. Not 10.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Tbh after living in Kirkwall for 10 years, who wouldn't want the dam place nuked. It's the most depressing place in the DA universe I imagine. Nuke and rebuild, Anders did them a favour.

I could buy the premise of a haunted evil city that just loves to torture its inhabitants and drive them to insanity and complete idiocy actually.

[Dragoonlordz]

Thing is there is a real Kirkwall, it's off the coast Scotland.

http://www.undiscove...wall/index.html

[Myounage]

tonnactus wrote...

JBurke wrote...

Buy The Witcher 2 instead. Unlike DA2, you get your money's worth. In fact, The Witcher 2 is what DA2 should have been like.

Really? The witcher not only has a predefined race,but also one gender and a fixed protagonist.

How that could been what Da2 should have been like????

Bioware wanted to make an action RPG. They made a boring one with thoughtlessly thrown together fights and wave after wave after wave of enemies EVERY. SINGLE. TIME, rendering tactics useless.

The Witcher 2 has no waves, and has a much more in-depth combat system with player-initiated dodging and blocking. Striking also doesn't instantly hurl you to the enemy, positioning is important.

Hawke is a fixed protagonist just as much as Geralt is. Probably moreso, considering Geralt can choose a completely different path through Act 2, and won't meet half the characters in Act 2 in any given playthrough, because there are two totally different locations. Woo, I can do the same plot with the same ending in the same order! But I'm female! So meaningful and different!

Witcher 2's plot branches. Two different act 2 towns, and the person you side with early on sticks with you through the whole game, not turns on you no matter what in the same act.

Also, I bet Flotsam (small village at the start of the game) has more NPCs you can talk to than Kirkwall.

tl;dr: Witcher 2 succeeded everywhere DA 2 failed.

[oldmansavage]

No reason to be arguing over this turd, you fellas should be playing the Witcher instead.

*goes back the witcher*

[Riloux]

Witcher 2 did what it could, and did it very well. Dragon Age 2 tried to do everything, and did it very poorly.

[Razor_Zeng]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
The Qunari themselves didn't care. I doubt it was going to be anything more than a "Here's your Tome."

"Thank you. Panahedan."

*part ways*

It was taking place on the seas as we know, so I doubt much diplomacy would've happened.

Um, if they thought that it would be this easy, then wow. It apparently took them more than a century to get Orlais to give it back and now they think they can get it in a few words?

Especially when they do not reveal why they were in Kirkwall in the first place??

I mean, I know the Qunari think everyone else is stupid, but come on.

The Qunari were in Kirkwall because their ship crashed on the coast when they were chasing Isabella, the person who stole the Tome from them. It's pointed out a few times in the game.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Razor_Zeng wrote...
The Qunari were in Kirkwall because their ship crashed on the coast when they were chasing Isabella, the person who stole the Tome from them. It's pointed out a few times in the game.

....I know.

The post I was responding to suggested that the Qunari didn't think much diplomacy was needed, that everything could be settled in a few words. But the Qunari didn't even tell Kirkwall why they were there, so how could they have cooperated?

[Browneye_Vamp84]

was it really that bad.. no, i enjoyed Varric and some other characters, but not enough to finish all three classes back to back like i did in Origins. (finished only as a mage, almost done with other two)

[upsettingshorts]

Origins had two distinct endings. Dead Warden and living Warden. Unless I'm missing something, or you're counting epilogue cards.

Alistairlover94 wrote...

The DA games aren't supposed to be set around
one protagoinist, according to Mr. Gaider/Mr. Laidlaw).

The cliffhanger of DA2 isn't just a cliffhanger for Hawke, it's a cliffhanger for the entire Thedas worldstate. 

And Thedas is what Dragon Age is about, is it not?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 mai 2011 - 12:06 .

[MorrigansLove]

How anyone could find DA2's ending "satisfying" is beyond me.