510 réponses à ce sujet

[abaris]

tonnactus wrote...

You are not aware,that if a player dodge and block instead of stat like defense doing that(like in Origins),this makes a game to an adventure rather then a rpg?

Does it now? So the player having more influence on the behaviour of their character isn't RPG like - news to me. In the future I will probably appreciate the push button, mindless dummy approach more.

[tonnactus]

Marionetten wrote...

You can manually dodge just about every single attack in the game.

Show me how you dodge a backstab then...

[tonnactus]

abaris wrote...


Does it now? So the player having more influence on the behaviour of their character isn't RPG like - news to me.

Then it would be good to look at some common definitions about rpg gameplay i guess. Stats,not the player/player reactions decides about the  sucess of an attack/defense in roleplaying game.

Modifié par tonnactus, 22 mai 2011 - 09:18 .

[Lord_Valandil]

It's not the worst game ever.
But yeah, it's quite bad.

[Marionetten]

tonnactus wrote...

Show me how you dodge a backstab then...

I did say just about. If your entire argument hinges on this then it would fall apart in regards to The Witcher 2 as not everything is dodgeable. You're going to have to make up your mind.

[tonnactus]

Marionetten wrote...

I did say just about.

And that was just one example,not the only one.

[addiction21]

Marionetten wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Show me how you dodge a backstab then...

I did say just about. If your entire argument hinges on this then it would fall apart in regards to The Witcher 2 as not everything is dodgeable. You're going to have to make up your mind.

Actually what you said was 

Marionetten wrote...

You can manually dodge just about every single attack in the game. As said, what's the difference beyond it not being necessary due to how easy the game is?

Which implies that the majority of the attacks can be dodge. That is not true. Even then most of what can be dodge are designed to be dodged. If they were not then the damage would be done up front instead of after the long wind up time these attacks have.

[tariq071]

tonnactus wrote...

You are not aware,that if a player dodge and block instead of stat like defense doing that(like in Origins),this makes a game to an adventure rather then a rpg?

I was in real war for 2 years , didn't have a shield(yeah i know what a  suprise) ..i had to dodge bullets and blocked knives/whatever., because it was most efficient way to save my hide, even with heavy equipment on me.

You are telling me that i had an adventure?And that i can't role play with those 2 because they are not realistic? If they are not i wouldn't be here now...Or should have i just stay there and yell that doesn't count..according to DA lore doge/block is not valid?

Modifié par tariq071, 22 mai 2011 - 11:23 .

[inkjay]

tariq071 wrote...

You are telling me that i had an adventure?And that i can't role play with those 2 because they are not realistic? If they are not i wouldn't be here now...

No, I think that what he is trying to make is a strawman argument, in which by his logic The Witcher 2 might not even be considered an RPG but an Adventure game, thus, even if it is worthy of all the praise it is getting you can't really compare the two because they might be different genres altogether.

Is a commendable effort, worthy of the most dedicated fans around here, but it won't stick, because the combat system is the least of DA2's concerns in points of comparison. TW2 is simply the better game by a good country mile, strawman or not.

Modifié par inkjay, 22 mai 2011 - 11:26 .

[tonnactus]

inkjay wrote...

No, I think that what he is trying to make is a strawman argument,

Some people seems to have serious memory problems here.One poster talked about a depth combat system(thus comparing the combat of both games) in witcher 2 with player inniated blocking and dodging. I answered that this this isnt rpg gameplay(which is simply true),not that this make the witcher to an adventure.(what also isnt a bad thing per se,because some of the best games are adventures and adventures could be complex)

Modifié par tonnactus, 22 mai 2011 - 11:55 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

How anyone could find DA2's ending "satisfying" is beyond me.

I don't think anyone did. They were obviously going for something that will excite the player the same way ME2 did. They failed. Violently(IMO).

When my first playthrough ended I was satisfied. My Hawke had failed and as a player I was thrilled that it didn't end with a game over or that Hawke could fix everything and save everyone.

After playing the game a few more times I know that it could have used more work but I'm still happy that my Hawke failed.  

[inkjay]

tonnactus wrote...

in witcher 2 with player inniated blocking and dodging. I answered that this this isnt rpg gameplay(which is simply true)

Yes and my point is that you are wrong. Show me a rule where it says that in an RPG game the player can't innitiate block or parry? It does not become true just because you say so. Even the mechanics are similar because even tho you don't see the systems behind the actions in TW2 it doesn't mean that it isn't stat related, which let me tell you, IS WHAT MAKES IT AN RPG.

Modifié par inkjay, 23 mai 2011 - 12:20 .

[tariq071]

tonnactus wrote...

Some people seems to have serious memory problems here.One poster talked about a depth combat system(thus comparing the combat of both games) in witcher 2 with player inniated blocking and dodging. I answered that this this isnt rpg gameplay(which is simply true),not that this make the witcher to an adventure.(what also isnt a bad thing per se,because some of the best games are adventures and adventures could be complex)

Well in Gothic 1,2 ,3 and Risen(and some others that i can't think of right now) you initiate dodge, block and shield block.Some of those games are classics in RPG genre.

As long there are numbers that determine your success/failure of that specific action and not your(or mine) twitchy finger(like in AC games) it is RP mechanic, same as initiating attack with sword/knife/toilet brush...Which is the case in Witcher 2 also.And that makes you claim your personal preference and not real fact.

I definitely wouldn't call anything about Gothic 2 NOTR nothing but hardcore RPG, and shockingly to some (not you) it has those features and predetermined PC character(as the all other mentioned games above).So i don't see how that differs from let's say mentioned game.


P.S. Seriously , some people need to play some real RPG classics(that are not dating sim driven story with boobs and monorailed) before they start getting involved in what is rpg and what not.

Modifié par tariq071, 23 mai 2011 - 12:36 .

[devSin]

Melca36 wrote...

I agree.  Having these 2D people scattered about does NOT make the city full of life........

The ambient citizens are kind of reminiscent of the Jade Empire peasants, to be honest. Although, for Jade Empire, I think the limitations were entirely technical.

I had a hard time caring when actually playing DA2, though. It can be pointed out how stupid they look in the screenshots, but for me, they just blended into the scenery (in fact, I started pretending they weren't even there, since you could mostly path right through them). If anything, the fact that they're useless, lifeless, emotionless, soulless, worthless and completely pointless bothers me far, far more than that they have cheap, ugly models. I get the feeling they could have been removed altogether without making the city feel any less lively than it does with them around.

[MCPOWill]

Nah DAII isn't bad, its got some pretty amazing qualities ...but it has also got a ton of horrible ones too. The Bugs and the recycled maps being the biggest for me. The writing and characters were top notch. The combat was fun, but the interface for the PC was like the console version of DAO fitted and revised for the PC which didn't suit well for the PC gamers out there (IE not isometric camera).

[Melca36]

devSin wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

I agree.  Having these 2D people scattered about does NOT make the city full of life........

The ambient citizens are kind of reminiscent of the Jade Empire peasants, to be honest. Although, for Jade Empire, I think the limitations were entirely technical.

I had a hard time caring when actually playing DA2, though. It can be pointed out how stupid they look in the screenshots, but for me, they just blended into the scenery (in fact, I started pretending they weren't even there, since you could mostly path right through them). If anything, the fact that they're useless, lifeless, emotionless, soulless, worthless and completely pointless bothers me far, far more than that they have cheap, ugly models. I get the feeling they could have been removed altogether without making the city feel any less lively than it does with them around.

I think the most insulting way they were used was the crowd sequence when Hawke and company are trying to get in the city. <_<

And I agree, they are soulless and lifeless.

I know the developers had issues with resources but they need to realize that gamers are NOT stupid.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Ugh. Player initiated = not RPG?

EVERYTHING IN THE GAME IS PLAYER INITIATED.

That's what makes it a game and not a movie.

The idea is that the player initiates an action and the character determines how successful it is.

While I won't claim that Witcher 2 is a traditional RPG (because it's not, it's an Action RPG), your success at either blocking or dodging is modified by your character's abilities. That's what makes it different compared to other games that have similar mechanics.

I honestly cannot understand the arguments by anyone wanting to claim that either Dragon Age 2 or Witcher 2 are not (Action) RPGs...

Modifié par mrcrusty, 23 mai 2011 - 12:49 .

[ScepticMatt]

EA already has shiny new Engine: Frostbite 2 (used in Battlefield 3). I think it would be awesome if they could built upon that. Doesn't negate the need for awesome environmental design, of course.

[Kapn Crunch]

Opinions are just like azzes, everybody has one. You have to judge things for yourself because different things appeal to different people.  Personally I think the game is kick azz but I speak for myself.  It kept me busy a good while too, but that's because I HAVE A FREAKIN JOB. 

LMAO

[Marionetten]

addiction21 wrote...

Which implies that the majority of the attacks can be dodge. That is not true. Even then most of what can be dodge are designed to be dodged. If they were not then the damage would be done up front instead of after the long wind up time these attacks have.

Actually, that is true. Just about everything from the simple blows of a Carta thug to the swipes of a majestic dragon can be manually dodged in Dragon Age II. Sure, there are some things like backstabs, projectiles and such which cannot be manually dodged but the same goes for The Witcher 2.

Saying that The Witcher 2 is an adventure game because it has manual dodging while ignoring the fact that Dragon Age II also does is fairly silly. The fact is that The Witcher 2 is an action RPG while Dragon Age II tries to be one poorly.

Modifié par Marionetten, 23 mai 2011 - 01:00 .

[PaulSX]

tariq071 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Some people seems to have serious memory problems here.One poster talked about a depth combat system(thus comparing the combat of both games) in witcher 2 with player inniated blocking and dodging. I answered that this this isnt rpg gameplay(which is simply true),not that this make the witcher to an adventure.(what also isnt a bad thing per se,because some of the best games are adventures and adventures could be complex)

Well in Gothic 1,2 ,3 and Risen(and some others that i can't think of right now) you initiate dodge, block and shield block.Some of those games are classics in RPG genre.

As long there are numbers that determine your success/failure of that specific action and not your(or mine) twitchy finger(like in AC games) it is RP mechanic, same as initiating attack with sword/knife/toilet brush...Which is the case in Witcher 2 also.And that makes you claim your personal preference and not real fact.

I definitely wouldn't call anything about Gothic 2 NOTR nothing but hardcore RPG, and shockingly to some (not you) it has those features and predetermined PC character(as the all other mentioned games above).So i don't see how that differs from let's say mentioned game.


P.S. Seriously , some people need to play some real RPG classics(that are not dating sim driven story with boobs and monorailed) before they start getting involved in what is rpg and what not.

witcher 2's combat mechanics are totally different from Gothic series and Risen,  I feels it's more like diablo or Sacred 2 (Hack & Slash type), but with less usable powers. I will give TW2 an 10/10 for its crafting, but other than that it's not quite classic rpg mechanics, the game is more focus on looting and leveling

[Ottemis]

ExaltedReign wrote...

This is all my opinion, so no need to flip **** and freak out.

I had managed two play throughs in DA:O, managed to get all the achievements on the 360. I liked the story, the characters. One thing I didn't like was the combat, it felt sluggish and boring. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't bad, it just wasn't my cup of tea.

I've played the demo for DA2 about seven times. I really like it. The combat, the dialogue, the characters. I thought it was pretty fun. Maybe *gasp* even more fun than origins. Now, I know it doesn't have all the in-depth story as Origins, but thats okay with me.

Why do people seem to think its suppose to be a sequal to Origins? The stories (I think) have nothing to do with eachother. It should be counted as its own game, not a sequal to origins. Just like WoW and Warcraft 3 should be counted as their own games.

I'm planning on getting it tommorow, and people on these forums seem to think I'd be better off getting Hello Kitty: Island Adventures.

I know that my generation (I'm 15) like games that are more action packed and whatnot, but is that a bad thing? Does that make us any less of a gamer?

Should I still get it?

I'm quite complicated with my games while being utterly simple on the flipside.
If a game has a compelling story and combat that won't frustrate the hell out of me, if it gives me space to become immersed, if the characters feel real, are well-worked out individuals with interesting stories; then I easily overlook flaws that other people can get literally blinded by. They just completely go past me.
Having played DA2, I read these boards, I read the negative responces, the 'flaws', and I can agree to them (I'd even be the first to call DA2 utterly rushed), but I still wouldn't say this is a bad game at all. Quite good actually.

There's only a handfull of games that have compelled me enough for me to WANT to finish them. This is one of few.

Negative feedback is exactly why I generally never watch anything but gameplay review vids before I decide on buying something or not. Having certain flaws pointed out to you before you start playing something for yourself CAN ruin the potential of a game for you.

I would say buy it, but nobody knows better what you enjoy, but YOU.
I can tell you this though, if you're a fan of RPG's for story and immersion reasoning, and you're not easily put off by details like re-used areas for instance; this'll work for you. Especially because you've already said to like the faster combat and have played the demo so many times =)

Modifié par Ottemis, 23 mai 2011 - 01:24 .

[Tommy6860]

Melca36 wrote...



And I agree, they are soulless and lifeless.

I know the developers had issues with resources but they need to realize that gamers are NOT stupid.

Souless and lifeless for sure, as I can actually walk right through those 2D folks.

[Tommy6860]

mrcrusty wrote...

Ugh. Player initiated = not RPG?

EVERYTHING IN THE GAME IS PLAYER INITIATED.

That's what makes it a game and not a movie.

The idea is that the player initiates an action and the character determines how successful it is.

While I won't claim that Witcher 2 is a traditional RPG (because it's not, it's an Action RPG), your success at either blocking or dodging is modified by your character's abilities. That's what makes it different compared to other games that have similar mechanics.

I honestly cannot understand the arguments by anyone wanting to claim that either Dragon Age 2 or Witcher 2 are not (Action) RPGs...

This^ and I couldn't divine it to work another way, even if I wanted.

[Tommy6860]

Marionetten wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Which implies that the majority of the attacks can be dodge. That is not true. Even then most of what can be dodge are designed to be dodged. If they were not then the damage would be done up front instead of after the long wind up time these attacks have.

Actually, that is true. Just about everything from the simple blows of a Carta thug to the swipes of a majestic dragon can be manually dodged in Dragon Age II. Sure, there are some things like backstabs, projectiles and such which cannot be manually dodged but the same goes for The Witcher 2.

Saying that The Witcher 2 is an adventure game because it has manual dodging while ignoring the fact that Dragon Age II also does is fairly silly. The fact is that The Witcher 2 is an action RPG while Dragon Age II tries to be one poorly.

Actually, when thinking of Origins, beside being able to apply manual dodging, etc (I wouldn't think combat would be realistic if I couldn't make my character defend her/himself by those methods), it also, depending on the skill levels, has auto-parry, missile dodging, etc. I find that really cool in Origins.