791 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexRmF]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Considering that both defense and weapon technology advanced in 2 years, what makes you think that ME2 weapons used in a ME1 enviroment are weaker than ME1 weapons used in a ME1 enviroment? If anything, the theoretical asumption would be that trying to use a ME1 weapon in ME2s enviroment would be like bringing a peashooter to a gunfight. It tickles, but it doesn't hurt...

the weapons in ME2 are weaker because they have an ammo limit  and you can't upgrade them, like you could upgrade those in ME1...so, if you bring a peashooter to a gunfight, you'd better make sure it has unlimited ammo 
as I said... this all comes down to all the other gameplay features and both systems are good for their respective gameplay mechanics. I like the ME1 approach better because I usually like unlimited things and I don't want to worry if I miss a few shots

[Iakus]

theelementslayer wrote...

It just breaks immersion cant you tell, just does no questions. Makes me rage so much RAGEEEEEE.

But anways, i think people dont like it because they have to aim and have to micromanage which guns to use. Because I constantly find myself switching between pistol and widow (infiltrator) and sometimes busting out the Tempest if husks come too close for comfort. In ME1 I only ever used one gun when I got it. The Spectre assault rifle. And I never had to worry about my aim either cause there was no penalty for missing really.

I think thats why they dont like it. Now people have to be a bit more careful with their shots, especailly snipers. I cannt tell how many times Ive swore under my breath after missing a shot with the widow in cloak mode, as that would take down a collector one hit (headshot). 

I personally like clips or whatever people want to call them, it gives more of a challenge to gunfights.

Hmm, nope, I think I'll stick with my original answer:

But it's not the fact that people switched over in just a couple of years, it's that the changeover was so complete and total. From the Citadel to the Quarian Flotilla, Tuchanka to Illium and every dirtbag merc base in between, all switched their weapons over in less than three years. Every. Single. One.  In fact, the only possible explanation for the thorough saturation of thermal clips must be time travel, given where they turn up (Jacob's loyalty mission)

And that's leaving aside that all thermal clips seem to be compatable with all technoogy. Doesn't matter if it's human, geth, or Collector weapons

I play for the story, I care nothing for or against heat sinks or thermal clips.  And guess what?  I play an Infiltrator too!

[DarkDragon777]

Meh, I prefer the "Mass Effect 2 ammo system". Having to wait for your gun to recharge in the middle of a battle got a little tedious after a while.

[Icinix]

Meh. I'll mod it like I did ME2 so I have regenerating Ammo.

It just feels more sci-fiey to me.

[theelementslayer]

iakus wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

It just breaks immersion cant you tell, just does no questions. Makes me rage so much RAGEEEEEE.

But anways, i think people dont like it because they have to aim and have to micromanage which guns to use. Because I constantly find myself switching between pistol and widow (infiltrator) and sometimes busting out the Tempest if husks come too close for comfort. In ME1 I only ever used one gun when I got it. The Spectre assault rifle. And I never had to worry about my aim either cause there was no penalty for missing really.

I think thats why they dont like it. Now people have to be a bit more careful with their shots, especailly snipers. I cannt tell how many times Ive swore under my breath after missing a shot with the widow in cloak mode, as that would take down a collector one hit (headshot). 

I personally like clips or whatever people want to call them, it gives more of a challenge to gunfights.

Hmm, nope, I think I'll stick with my original answer:

But it's not the fact that people switched over in just a couple of years, it's that the changeover was so complete and total. From the Citadel to the Quarian Flotilla, Tuchanka to Illium and every dirtbag merc base in between, all switched their weapons over in less than three years. Every. Single. One.  In fact, the only possible explanation for the thorough saturation of thermal clips must be time travel, given where they turn up (Jacob's loyalty mission)

And that's leaving aside that all thermal clips seem to be compatable with all technoogy. Doesn't matter if it's human, geth, or Collector weapons

I play for the story, I care nothing for or against heat sinks or thermal clips.  And guess what?  I play an Infiltrator too!

Yay Infiltrators :happy:. Nah I can see the point of annoyance from a lore perspective I guess. But for me its too small and I like it better from a gameplay perspective vs infinate ammo. The jacob loyalty mission did have a few holes because the clips were scattered. That would have been a fun one to only have the ammo you had on your backs and give it a unique perspective.

[Xeranx]

Clonedzero wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Can someone please explain to me why everyone who "fired forever" seems to think they broke the game.

Sorry to tell you all, your fire-forever weapon simply sucked.

Its the only fault of ME1 weapons ive ever seen and its completely invalid.

they didnt break it in terms of balance so much, more so in the fact it stopped being fun.

all i did was put two scramrails and snowblind bullets on the super spectre assault rifle and it should shoot forever. i did that because it results in the best damage per bullet.

it wasnt that it was overpowered, it simply wasnt fun to use anymore is what "broke" it for me.

I find it hilarious that because you chose to put those mods in for the desired effect that it became less fun for you despite the fact that you could have changed it.  Hey, I managed to get the hottest girl in high school, but because I got what I wanted (what I chose to pursue) it's not fun being around her anymore.  I managed to get the fastest car in the world, but because it does what I expect it's not fun anymore.  I chose to play a game the way I wanted to and because of that it's not fun anymore.  That's beyond absurd.  

People who get what they want and aren't happy with it are usually asked why, but in this case you had (and still have) the ability to change things to give yourself a challenge and didn't take it.  As a result of that you're upset with the system that you chose to abuse?  You should see your way out of the thread because you're not doing yourself justice at all.  

The ridiculous responses about the ammo system have come from the very people who chose to do what they say you should not.  So I and others are to believe that this is why the weapon system was changed?  That because people had the freedom to do what they wanted with weapons and armor they couldn't give themselves the challenge of any single encounter by using something else?  I sincerely feel you and others like you could play a few numbers in the lottery and win, and then get upset that someone else was able to play a few numbers and win a jackpot themselves.

Modifié par Xeranx, 23 mai 2011 - 11:06 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Halo Quea wrote...
ME1's reasoning was great, even if didn't fit the model for gunplay that you can find in eeeeeeeeevery damned shooter.   Weapons have a mass driver that magnetically suspends a precisely calculated and cut projectile from an ammo block that NEVER comes in contact with ANY internal parts.  Heat is dampened or mitigated by the mass driver's magnetic field the instant the weapon is fired, requiring only a brief cool down period.  Intelligent, efficient design for a weapon in the 23rd century. 

Enter thermal clips and broken logic.

Using Bioware's own explaination, (which I don't intend to go over again) the function and purpose of thermal clips creates a device that ultimately should be unusable.  These heat sink devices that function as a (un-needed) solution for thermal magnetic heat transfer would be burning on the battlefield like hot coals!  You would see steam and vapor rising from them as they were ejected from weapons.  You would feel intense burning heat against your face as you approached them.   If you picked them up you would lose your fingers or your entire hand. 

So even if you could pick it up it would still be an absolute hazzard to place this white hot burning clip in your own weapon which is a micro mass accelerator containing ezo that produces dark matter energy.  LMAO!!

I'm sorry, but you're incorrect in several areas here, both in terms of game lore and real science.

1) Even if the round does not come into direct contact with the gun itself, the round is accelerated to such a high speed that friction will heat up the surrounding atmosphere, which will in turn heat up the magnetic accelerator components. That heat must be transferred somewhere, or else the gun will start to malfunction. Which brings us to...
2) Heat management. You claim that the magnetic field somehow deals with heat. Unfortunately, the electromagnetic force just does not work that way. Magnetic fields can accelerate electrically charged objects, but they cannot be used to control the flow of heat.
3) In ME1, heat sinks already existed - they were just internal to a weapon and could not be removed in the field. The geth altered that design by introducing detachable heat sinks, and thermal clips that hold spare heat sinks.
4) Only spent heat sinks are red-hot. The thermal clips you pick up from dead enemies are spares, not spent ones.

[The Spamming Troll]

Xeranx wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Can someone please explain to me why everyone who "fired forever" seems to think they broke the game.

Sorry to tell you all, your fire-forever weapon simply sucked.

Its the only fault of ME1 weapons ive ever seen and its completely invalid.

they didnt break it in terms of balance so much, more so in the fact it stopped being fun.

all i did was put two scramrails and snowblind bullets on the super spectre assault rifle and it should shoot forever. i did that because it results in the best damage per bullet.

it wasnt that it was overpowered, it simply wasnt fun to use anymore is what "broke" it for me.

I find it hilarious that because you chose to put those mods in for the desired effect that it became less fun for you despite the fact that you could have changed it.  Hey, I managed to get the hottest girl in high school, but because I got what I wanted (what I chose to pursue) it's not fun being around her anymore.  I managed to get the fastest car in the world, but because it does what I expect it's not fun anymore.  I chose to play a game the way I wanted to and because of that it's not fun anymore.  That's beyond absurd.  

People who get what they want and aren't happy with it are usually asked why, but in this case you had (and still have) the ability to change things to give yourself a challenge and didn't take it.  As a result of that you're upset with the system that you chose to abuse?  You should see your way out of the thread because you're not doing yourself justice at all.  

The ridiculous responses about the ammo system have come from the very people who chose to do what they say you should not.  So I and others are to believe that this is why the weapon system was changed?  That because people had the freedom to do what they wanted with weapons and armor they couldn't give themselves the challenge of any single encounter by using something else?  I sincerely feel you and others like you could play a few numbers in the lottery and win, and then get upset that someone else was able to play a few numbers and win a jackpot themselves.

cloned,
your gun actually produced the LEAST amount of damage per shot. any weapon that used frictionless materials is gonig to be worse then one that didnt. i never understood the complaint about fireing forever, or the need for it. ME1s gameplay isnt as linear and enemies arent as predictable as in ME2 so there were plenty of times to let go of the right trigger.

xeranx,
totally in agreement. its like people forget what actually happened in ME1. i wonder if those same people hwo modded their weapons to fire forever, are the same ones that complain about insanity being a bore fest with enemy sponges. i never thought insanity to be too bad, but that has to do with me modding dual scram 7s and shredder/tungston, while they were using dual frictionless and sledgehammer.

[Devos]

Clonedzero wrote...

they didnt break it in terms of balance so much, more so in the fact it stopped being fun.

all i did was put two scramrails and snowblind bullets on the super spectre assault rifle and it should shoot forever. i did that because it results in the best damage per bullet.

it wasnt that it was overpowered, it simply wasnt fun to use anymore is what "broke" it for me.

hmm... no. Rail Extension VII x 2 + Shredder/Tungsten VII is the best damage per shot. Also Spectre X pistol with Master Marksman has significantly higher damage than the AR. IIRC that's Spamming Trolls set up of preference. Rail Extension VII + Frictionless Materials X + Shredder/Tungsten VII (with dual Scrams for Infiltrators with their cooling boost) being the consensus best pistol set ups.

The thing is while I don't agree Spamming Troll's argument against the low heat consensus set up, you actually have to sustain fire before it starts out damaging a maximised damage set up. He has a point but you aren't actually getting much extra damage due to how bonuses actually stack so you don't have to sustain fire much more to start overtaking  in terms of damage over time.

But there we go, ME1's system encouraged bullet hoses by poor balancing of weapon mods. Heat bumps weren't enough (Scrams) to cause a problem and Frictionless Materials were far too good allowing you to pair them with a REx VII. But to reiterate the point, the endless bullet streams offered by these set ups would have been utterly worthless if you couldn't safely keep enemies in your line of fire. Immunity, Barrier and Singularity did a lot more to make ME1's shooting dull than the cooling system.

[Someone With Mass]

I never saw what was so great about ME1's system. ME2's felt like a breath of fresh air to me. No more dicking around with rail systems to fire off a few more shots. Just fire until the clip is empty/overheated/whatever, reload and continue. If I run out of ammo, I could just use my other powers until I find some more clips to reload my gun with. And guess what. I don't care if it breaks immersion or whatever lame excuse it is these days. It works just fine.

[Devos]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

any weapon that used frictionless materials is gonig to be worse then one that didnt.

Sorry I can't let that pass!

You do remember that Frictionless has a +7% damage bonus on top of the ridiculous cooling?

Frictionless + REx gives + 36%
dual Scrams + 52%
dual REx + 58%

also as a rule of thumb any bonus going into the generic pile like weapon mods is relatively worth a bit over half of what it appears to be. So it's actually only around 11% per shot difference Frictionless REx compared to even 2 x REx for a huge net change in heat generation.

[The Spamming Troll]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I never saw what was so great about ME1's system. ME2's felt like a breath of fresh air to me. No more dicking around with rail systems to fire off a few more shots. Just fire until the clip is empty/overheated/whatever, reload and continue. If I run out of ammo, I could just use my other powers until I find some more clips to reload my gun with. And guess what. I don't care if it breaks immersion or whatever lame excuse it is these days. It works just fine.

if you arent immersed into the ME universe or dont understand someone elses own immersion with this game, then i feel sorry for you. its most likely because you started with the ME2. am i right?

in comprison to you, i thought ME1s system was a breath of fresh air. ME2s ive seen before.

[The Spamming Troll]

Devos wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

any weapon that used frictionless materials is gonig to be worse then one that didnt.

Sorry I can't let that pass!

You do remember that Frictionless has a +7% damage bonus on top of the ridiculous cooling?

Frictionless + REx gives + 36%
dual Scrams + 52%
dual REx + 58%

also as a rule of thumb any bonus going into the generic pile like weapon mods is relatively worth a bit over half of what it appears to be. So it's actually only around 11% per shot difference Frictionless REx compared to even 2 x REx for a huge net change in heat generation.

numbers, they confuse me.

fyi: i think the chick who voiced the quarian tali knew on the flotilla, is on House right now.

[Someone With Mass]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
if you arent immersed into the ME universe or dont understand someone elses own immersion with this game, then i feel sorry for you. its most likely because you started with the ME2. am i right?

in comprison to you, i thought ME1s system was a breath of fresh air. ME2s ive seen before.

Oh, that's right. When I don't like something about ME1, that means I haven't played the game, or that I can't comprehend the deep thought about a certain item or system.

Yeah, I haven't heard that one before...so original.

[The Spamming Troll]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
if you arent immersed into the ME universe or dont understand someone elses own immersion with this game, then i feel sorry for you. its most likely because you started with the ME2. am i right?

in comprison to you, i thought ME1s system was a breath of fresh air. ME2s ive seen before.

Oh, that's right. When I don't like something about ME1, that means I haven't played the game, or that I can't comprehend the deep thought about a certain item or system.

Yeah, I haven't heard that one before...so original.

irrelevant.

anyways, which game did you play first?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 24 mai 2011 - 01:05 .

[Devos]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

fyi: i think the chick who voiced the quarian tali knew on the flotilla, is on House right now.

People still watch that?

[Nathan Redgrave]

Guys, his screen name is "The Spamming Troll." Stop feeding him.

Obro wrote...

I wish they just called them ammo because they ARE ammo.

Technically they're not the ammo, the ammo is the metal block that you never have to swap out because it can provide enough metal for slugs to make ammo a "non-issue." Thermal clips are ejected to prevent weapon overheating. The irony is that this defeats the purpose of a system designed to make ammo a non-issue, since you damn well have to put another thermal clip in when you take one out.

This is also why every gun ever made can use the same thermal clips.

Functionally, though, it's ammo. It kind of kills the point of the system introduced in ME1, but I really couldn't care less about that. Being able to just spray and pray without real consequence would make things a bit too easy, and the ammo system in ME2 does give you incentive to change up weapons and conserve specific ones for when they're needed. In ME1, I typically stuck to exactly one weapon type per character except for the occasional switch to a sniper rifle. Why bother with a handgun when you have a perfectly good assault rifle and Solid Snake has loaned you his magic bandanna? Exactly, there's no reason to bother.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 24 mai 2011 - 01:26 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Guys, his screen name is "The Spamming Troll." Stop feeding him.

remember the name, nathan redgrave.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 24 mai 2011 - 01:53 .

[CajNatalie]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Meh, I prefer the "Mass Effect 2 ammo system". Having to wait for your gun to recharge in the middle of a battle got a little tedious after a while.

And waiting for shields (that get shredded any time you swing out of cover for a split second to take just one shot) to regenerate isn't tedious... shields that take longer to regen than the ME1 cooldown and require regen more than ME1 weapons required cooldown (particularly on Insanity)?
This is why I prefer picking a defensive power that can recharge shields (and double them in the process) as my bonus in ME2. Having to keep waiting for glass shields to fix themselves because my armor underneath is made of worthless paper is one of the worst aspects of the game.

This argument never makes sense to me. It's one tedious wait replaced by another.
Hell, the paper-mache armor Shep wears with its glass shields are the real reason for making shots count and preventing bullet sprays.
The thermal clip system's only effects are heavier encouragement on using different weapons (good) and the need to scrounge like a vorcha between battles (bad).

One problem replaced by another is common to a lot of things in Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 24 mai 2011 - 02:01 .

[rancid banana]

best idea ever....
do a little of both games like having thermal clips to cool the weapon down when you cause an overheat and you pick up additional clips in suply crates and are only issued a certain amount at the start of the mission. but if u dont have any the cooldown is twice or 3 times as long but can be changed based on weapon mods

Modifié par rancid banana, 24 mai 2011 - 01:58 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

CajNatalie wrote...
And waiting for shields (that get shredded any time you swing out of cover for a split second to take just one shot)

Reason #2 why I don't like Insanity Mode. Although you ultimately spend less time waiting for healing and shield regen in ME2 than in ME1 (in ME1 your health stays down for a while even with a good medical upgrade; you'll have to wait for a medi-gel cooldown some of the time, and shields take forever to start coming back). ME2 is pretty painless in this regard; once the recharge begins, it goes up fast, it just tends to happen more often if you sit out in the open a lot.

This argument never makes sense to me. It's one tedious wait replaced by another.
Hell, the paper-mache armor Shep wears with its glass shields are the real reason for making shots count and preventing bullet sprays.

One problem replaced by another is common to a lot of things in Mass Effect 2.

True enough, but this isn't really a problem. It's simply a slightly more realistic take on health and armor: you die fast, and have to wait a bit for your hardsuit's medi-gel and shield regeneration systems to kick in. Incidentally, it's further mitigated by medi-gel's Trauma Module and Emergency Shielding upgrades, as well as Tech Armor, Fortification, Barrier, and Geth Shield Boost.

The tedious wait isn't the real issue, though; overheating should never be a problem unless you either use High Explosive Rounds (which pay for themselves, as it were) or just aren't paying enough attention to how frequently you fire your gun. I stand by the "it makes it a bit too easy" argument, myself. Overheating never really gets in your way unless you're stupid about it; more often it was accuracy regeneration that slowed me down rather than the heat sink.

[rancid banana]

i get what yer saying but when there is alot of guys on yer screen i tend to forget about the heat build-up unless i spec for major heat reduction

[Maera Imrov]

Icinix wrote...

Meh. I'll mod it like I did ME2 so I have regenerating Ammo..

This.

At the end of the day, that's all I can really say about it. The rest of the points have really been beaten to death. I can see why they do it, I can even appreciate it more than the cooling down in ME1, to an extent, but I don't much care for FPS games (where ME is -or was- more of a hybrid enough to keep me amused), so no, I don't like ammo. So I will mod it out for me personally.

[CajNatalie]

Responding to Nathan Redgrave...

Well in ME1, your armor worked well enough to make long waits between medigel a non-issue as long as you didn't take stupid risks. I've actually pulled off a high risk strategy as my Vanguard on Insanity but knew what I was doing enough to never need medi-gel when I couldn't use it. Only fails I've had were one or two surprise rockets to the face over the course of the game. But they were instant kills anyway, so not like medi-gel could have helped, lol.
Besides, shields could also be regenerated instantly using Shield Boost... I make sure to max out my armor talent on my Sheps so I can do a full 100% recharge whenever I need it.

In ME2, it's the case of constantly needing to keep sitting out again and again. I found every trick I could to ensure I'd take minimal (or no) fire, stagger enemies as much as possible (Improved Shockwave ) and aim my shots precicely where I wanted them, and yet still whenever my shields took any damage, they often took 100% damage and broke, or 50% damage setting themselves up to break during the next hail of gunfire in my direction.
I'm just glad I had barrier for my covered moments and charge (refills shields) for when enemies were isolated/thinned, otherwise that would have been one tedious game of Insanity.
This is why I don't intend on playing Insanity with any other class than the Vanguard... the Infiltrator is inviting I suppose, but the way the game works means I'll forgo 'mastering' the Infil Shepard so I can avoid the aggrevation.

Anyway, on your comment for how overheat doesn't get in the way unless you're stupid about it.
It's just the same with how clips don't get in the way unless you're stupid about them.
Despite being one of those ME1 lovers who has plenty of arguments in favor of the heat system, I've never experienced the phenomenon of running out of ammo. Hell, I even learned to quit using the Off-Hand Ammo Pack because it barely gives me any extra shots anyway (though it's not like any of the armor pieces have any significant effect anyway, I suppose, lol).

Modifié par CajNatalie, 24 mai 2011 - 02:37 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Sense the ammo in ME2 is suppose to be universal but isn't. Are they fixing that in ME3? So for instance, I use all my ammo up for my assault rifle, well I still have ammo held back for my shotgun sense the clips are the same I'll just pull from my shotgun, and my smg, and everyone weapon I have that is clip bound sense you know it was suppose to be that way. I really liked ME unlimited ammo and cooldown on guns I don't like the clip scavenger hunt we get now nothing says action like scrounging for clips during and after battle.