791 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Phaedon wrote...

iakus wrote...
Of course, some people wait 5-6 years or more before getting new PCs 

But it's not the fact that people switched over in just a couple of years, it's that the changeover was so complete and total.  From the Citadel to the Quarian Flotilla, Tuchanka to Illium and every dirtbag merc base in between, all switched their weapons over in less than three years.  Every.  Single.  One.   In fact, the only possible explanation for the thorough saturation of thermal clips must be time travel, given where they turn up (Jacob's loyalty mission)

And that's leaving aside that all thermal clips seem to be compatable with all technoogy.  Doesn't matter if it's human, geth, or Collector weapons

Yep, so?
Not only is the market intergalactic, and the shipments arrive quicker (which also supports my argument), but as I have said, heatsinks=thermal clips, made of different kind of material. It makes perfect sense to have those above the Hugo Gernsback.

-
Really, I don't get the whole argument, ME2 has arguably much better gameplay partially because of this, and secondly, even if the lore argument is valid, with which I can spot many misconceptions and mistakes, it's just nitpicking. "ME1's codex entry said x, but ME2's says that they switched to y, yadda yadda"

???

Shipments arrive so fast Ronald Taylor and Zaeed Massani get their deliveries decades before the technology's implemented by organics.  What does UPS use in the future, DeLoreans?

Now, I suppose we can play "let's pretend" and just ignore the sparkly icons that drop in places they can't possibly be, and scramble around collecting them, pretending we're just waiting for our weapons to cool down, or that we really brought far more clips than normal, because of course, there won't be a chance to resupply.    But isn't the point of this trilogy to tell one long, continuous story over three parts? 

I can accept that thermal clips are the new gameplay reality of the ME universe.  But I can't respect the change.  Not because of any failings on the gameplay part, but because the retcon was so clumsily limited that it makes the qunari horns change look smooth in comparison

[Bozorgmehr]

iakus wrote...

Then why even bother with allowing the importation of save files? It's all just a game, right? Like continuity matters! Or creating a universe with its own history and lore, populated by unique personalities? Cerberus, the Alliance, the Citadel, Reapers, it's all just names! What does that have to do with anything? Or dialogue options, for that matter? You've got the gameplay, you've got everything, right?

Without gameplay there is no game. Choices & consequences and dialog are gameplay mechanics, the lore, the characters you meet, the story etc are the tools to simulate effects based on your (previous) actions. When you're not actively involved in what's happening, you're a spectator, not a participant (playing a game).

ME2's story, the richly detailed universe, the interesting characters you meet, the places you go to, the epic mission to save the universe etc etc add to gameplay. They make ME a better gaming experience.

[CroGamer002]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

You're not interested in lore and story? Go play Call of Duty.

You play the game Mass Effect; playing a game - not reading a book or watching a movie - GAMEPLAY is everything, it's the core, the heart and soul of every game. Gameplay is infinitely more important than everything else. Lore and a story are there to SUPPORT gameplay not the other way around.

I like this human, he understands.

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...


You play the game Mass Effect; playing a game - not reading a book or watching a movie - GAMEPLAY is everything, it's the core, the heart and soul of every game. Gameplay is infinitely more important than everything else. Lore and a story are there to SUPPORT gameplay not the other way around.

In rpgs and for all players who like rpgs-->gameplay add to the story/ a way through the story,not the other way around. The reason why so many players dislike(me not included) Dragon Age 2 isnt exactly gameplay.Its the lack of atmosphere/"soul",choices and consequences compared with the first game.

Everyone who think otherwise should really play shooters.

Modifié par tonnactus, 24 mai 2011 - 09:45 .

[SalsaDMA]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

At this point, I think the best way to reconcile all the discrepancies is to say that what we see in gameplay does not necessarily translate exactly into "reality."

Considering ME1 disregarded ammo entirely despite the lore states that clips holds a finite amount of shots, you can say this is pretty true already in the first game

[MonkeyKaboom]

Good lord you all complain way too much.  Get over it.  They should have just called it ammo.  It was even in the codexes that guns in ME have ammo in the form of metal blocks.  The guns shave off part of the block and the shards are propelled forward with mass effect.  It was already freakin lore.  

[Iakus]

tonnactus wrote...


In rpgs and for all players who like rpgs-->gameplay add to the story/ a way through the story,not the other way around. The reason why so many players dislike(me not included) Dragon Age 2 isnt exactly gameplay.Its the lack of atmosphere/"soul",choices and consequences compared with the first game.

Everyone who think otherwise should really play shooters.

I like this human.  He understands

[Yew Suck]

Is this about ammo or what makes an rpg?

Does tonnactus speak for all people that play rpgs?

MonkeyKaboom wrote...
Good lord you all complain way too much. Get over it. They should have just called it ammo. It was even in the codexes that guns in ME have ammo in the form of metal blocks. The guns shave off part of the block and the shards are propelled forward with mass effect. It was already freakin lore.

I like this human. He understands.

[theelementslayer]

Yew Suck wrote...

Is this about ammo or what makes an rpg?

Does tonnactus speak for all people that play rpgs?

MonkeyKaboom wrote...
Good lord you all complain way too much. Get over it. They should have just called it ammo. It was even in the codexes that guns in ME have ammo in the form of metal blocks. The guns shave off part of the block and the shards are propelled forward with mass effect. It was already freakin lore.

I like this human. He understands.

I like the above human, he understands about what I understand and I like that understanding nature of the understood. Honestly its a done deal, and it would make more sense to stick with what they have then changing it again with lore and having you all complain about it. Again.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Good lord you all complain way too much.  Get over it.  They should have just called it ammo.  It was even in the codexes that guns in ME have ammo in the form of metal blocks.  The guns shave off part of the block and the shards are propelled forward with mass effect.  It was already freakin lore.  

If you're going to send out the message that you're exasperated with the nitpicking, don't immediately try to debate the nitpicks with bad logic. The guns in ME1 had metal blocks that provided a vast amount of ammo, presumably more than enough for individual missions. The guns in ME2 have the same limitation, but they're further limited by an aditional ammo requirement whereby the metal blocks are rendered useless without a thermal clip loaded.

ME1 - ammo is practically a non-issue.

ME2 - ammo is always an issue.

[Admoniter]

I suppose I can respect their determination to stay the course with this TC nonsense.

[Someone With Mass]

If they just increase the ammo drop percentage in ME3, I'm good. Mass Effect has always been part shooter, and I really don't care how my gun can shoot bullets as long as it can do it. Such nitpicking is just utterly pointless.

[Yew Suck]

theelementslayer wrote...

Yew Suck wrote...

Is this about ammo or what makes an rpg?

Does tonnactus speak for all people that play rpgs?

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Good lord you all complain way too much. Get over it. They should have just called it ammo. It was even in the codexes that guns in ME have ammo in the form of metal blocks. The guns shave off part of the block and the shards are propelled forward with mass effect. It was already freakin lore.

I like this human. He understands.

I like the above human, he understands about what I understand and I like that understanding nature of the understood. Honestly its a done deal, and it would make more sense to stick with what they have then changing it again with lore and having you all complain about it. Again.

I like this human as well. He understands the understanding as it has come to be understood by those who share a similar understanding.

And yes, it is done. Time to move on to something else.
.

[Sgt Stryker]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

At this point, I think the best way to reconcile all the discrepancies is to say that what we see in gameplay does not necessarily translate exactly into "reality."

Considering ME1 disregarded ammo entirely despite the lore states that clips holds a finite amount of shots, you can say this is pretty true already in the first game

I like this human. He understands!

(hey everyone else was doing it!)

[Da Mecca]

A lot of understanding and human liking in here.

[Jorina Leto]

Phaedon wrote...

It is illogical, however for:
1. Shepard to use them.

Why?

Phaedon wrote...
2. Major merc companies to not invest in them.

Why?

Phaedon wrote...
3. For Geth and the special forces of the Quarians to not be using the newer technolodgy.

The geth didn't use them in in ME1... And the quarians do not have the resources to repair their ships but can change every weapon. Sure...

[Iakus]

Da Mecca wrote...

A lot of understanding and human liking in here.

It beats the alternative

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Jorina Leto wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

It is illogical, however for:
1. Shepard to use them.

Why?

Phaedon wrote...
2. Major merc companies to not invest in them.

Why?

Phaedon wrote...
3. For Geth and the special forces of the Quarians to not be using the newer technolodgy.

The geth didn't use them in in ME1... And the quarians do not have the resources to repair their ships but can change every weapon. Sure...

Let's not also ignore common sense; in reality, the very BEST solution would be a hybrid system. Thermal clips provide a backup plan in case you find yourself under heavy fire, and can't wait for your heatsink to vent. If you don't have a clip, not to worry! You can still wait for your weapon to cool down enough to shoot it again, instead of it becoming nothing more than a blunt object

But no; apparently we're supposed to believe that the races of the galaxy would embrace an age-old drawback to traditional ammo (bullets) in advanced weaponry, and weapons manufacturers wouldn't think to offer a hybridized system to bypass it. Yeah, right.

It simply doesn't make a lick of sense. Phaedon's grasping at twigs.

[Gatt9]

tonnactus wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...


You play the game Mass Effect; playing a game - not reading a book or watching a movie - GAMEPLAY is everything, it's the core, the heart and soul of every game. Gameplay is infinitely more important than everything else. Lore and a story are there to SUPPORT gameplay not the other way around.

In rpgs and for all players who like rpgs-->gameplay add to the story/ a way through the story,not the other way around. The reason why so many players dislike(me not included) Dragon Age 2 isnt exactly gameplay.Its the lack of atmosphere/"soul",choices and consequences compared with the first game.

Everyone who think otherwise should really play shooters.

Not to be rude,  but you really couldn't be any further off here.

Munchkins play for the power of their character,  Min-Maxers play for the thrill of exploiting the system to achieve the optimal build which lets them "Do the impossible",  Monty-Haulers play for the thrill of the items and money,  LARPs (Which are really barely an RPGer) play for the fantasy of the alternate life.

There's a great many types of RPGers,  and each group is attracted to the game for different reasons. 

Further,  and I *really* hate to say this,  the other poster is right.  It's a video game,  and Gameplay is King.  If the gameplay sucks,  no matter how great the story is,  it's just not going to get played for more than an hour.  No one wants to play something mind-numbing just to hear bits and pieces of a story every so often.

Further,  the reason so many people don't like DA2 is:  "Wheel of Idon'twannahaveto read"...err...dialogue wheel,  weak Diablo combat,  enemies warping out of nowhere for no apparent reason,  unequipable party,  maps used and reused,  kiddie-console-game animations (Don't infer that as a console attack,  I mean real kid's games),  and finally the railroading in dialogue and choice.  It's got alot more problems than just the story,  and almost all of them are gameplay related. 

[MonkeyKaboom]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Good lord you all complain way too much.  Get over it.  They should have just called it ammo.  It was even in the codexes that guns in ME have ammo in the form of metal blocks.  The guns shave off part of the block and the shards are propelled forward with mass effect.  It was already freakin lore.  

If you're going to send out the message that you're exasperated with the nitpicking, don't immediately try to debate the nitpicks with bad logic. The guns in ME1 had metal blocks that provided a vast amount of ammo, presumably more than enough for individual missions. The guns in ME2 have the same limitation, but they're further limited by an aditional ammo requirement whereby the metal blocks are rendered useless without a thermal clip loaded.

ME1 - ammo is practically a non-issue.

ME2 - ammo is always an issue.

You're mixing up the issues.  And you're inferring something that was never established (guns in ME1 had vast amounts of ammo).  That was simply a gameplay mechanic, you never ran out because there was no ammo (gameplay wise).  There WAS ammo (lore wise).  

The problem is they changed both a gameplay mechanic AND lore.  Had they just added the gameplay mechanic and called it ammo there would be no issues at all.  Lore already had ammo.  The gameplay mechanic is fine.  Calling it thermal clips is the only problem here.

[Notanything]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

It is illogical, however for:
1. Shepard to use them.

Why?

Phaedon wrote...
2. Major merc companies to not invest in them.

Why?

Phaedon wrote...
3. For Geth and the special forces of the Quarians to not be using the newer technolodgy.

The geth didn't use them in in ME1... And the quarians do not have the resources to repair their ships but can change every weapon. Sure...

Let's not also ignore common sense; in reality, the very BEST solution would be a hybrid system. Thermal clips provide a backup plan in case you find yourself under heavy fire, and can't wait for your heatsink to vent. If you don't have a clip, not to worry! You can still wait for your weapon to cool down enough to shoot it again, instead of it becoming nothing more than a blunt object

But no; apparently we're supposed to believe that the races of the galaxy would embrace an age-old drawback to traditional ammo (bullets) in advanced weaponry, and weapons manufacturers wouldn't think to offer a hybridized system to bypass it. Yeah, right.

It simply doesn't make a lick of sense. Phaedon's grasping at twigs.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Vena_86]

The game as a whole is important. In tetris gameplay is king. In DotA gameplay is king. But in an RPG that tries to immerse you into an alternate universe, gameplay should not contradict the other elements, or the whole structure falls apart. What is left is the gameplay ALONE, without any immersion, any reason to care for the universe and the characters within, as it is painfull obvious that you are just wasting your time with playing a game against a lifeless machine.

[Yew Suck]

I think the best solution is for everybody to just accept that what's done is done and that it's not changing in ME3.The horse is very, very dead. Please refrain from beating it any further.

Thank you for choosing Avina.

[Halo Quea]

Well, I think this horse is dead. We've beaten it, it aint gettin up again.

Me no want to beat dead horse no more.

[CroGamer002]

tonnactus wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...


You play the game Mass Effect; playing a game - not reading a book or watching a movie - GAMEPLAY is everything, it's the core, the heart and soul of every game. Gameplay is infinitely more important than everything else. Lore and a story are there to SUPPORT gameplay not the other way around.

In rpgs and for all players who like rpgs-->gameplay add to the story/ a way through the story,not the other way around. The reason why so many players dislike(me not included) Dragon Age 2 isnt exactly gameplay.Its the lack of atmosphere/"soul",choices and consequences compared with the first game.

Everyone who think otherwise should really play shooters.

Oh really?

So I just imagined awesome button, spawning enemies, less "sub-classes", no armor for party members, no crafting and many other gameplay relate complaints that I see every time I visit Dragon Age 2 threads?

And gameplay adds to the story? You're kidding? Are RPG's games or not?