791 réponses à ce sujet

[CajNatalie]

Bill the Illusive man wrote...

I prefer the clip system, but I liked the weapon mods in ME1. Clips with Mods would be excellent to me.

What I would really like to see is making the Shotgun relvant in ME3.  In ME2 the Shotgun was useless to me.  If you had the Cerberus Shotgun DLC, was is it of any use to you?  I haven't used it, nor did I opt for the Krogan Shotgun as I preferred the Assault Rifle.

In ME1 I was all Shotgun, it was dubbed the "deathstick" as I distributed death across the cosmos.  A Tweaking off the Shotgun would be great.  Maybe the enemies could bounce back or fall of the buckshot impact.  Them falling could be followed up with me walking over to them while their on the ground and introducing them to the afterlife (via me actually lowering my gun).  

About Shotguns: You're obviously doin' it wrong.
Or do you think us Vanguards have so much fun using nothing but our pea-shooters and biotics...?

Off topic, I know, but I had to defend the shotgun.

[CajNatalie]

Wut double post.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 26 mai 2011 - 08:36 .

[Phaedon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
You have no evidence to disprove that:
1) The Alliance didn't start alpha, beta or even regular development of thermal clips during ME1.
2) "Thermal clips" are not military jargon.

I think the Alliance had plenty of geth material to work with after the battle of the Citadel too.

And really, how much time can simply changing a material take?

[Someone With Mass]

Phaedon wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
You have no evidence to disprove that:
1) The Alliance didn't start alpha, beta or even regular development of thermal clips during ME1.
2) "Thermal clips" are not military jargon.

I think the Alliance had plenty of geth material to work with after the battle of the Citadel too.

And really, how much time can simply changing a material take?

Not to mention all the parts that were taken by looters and scavangers. Crap like that can make it to the black market pretty quick.

[Nashiktal]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
You have no evidence to disprove that:
1) The Alliance didn't start alpha, beta or even regular development of thermal clips during ME1.
2) "Thermal clips" are not military jargon.

I think the Alliance had plenty of geth material to work with after the battle of the Citadel too.

And really, how much time can simply changing a material take?

Not to mention all the parts that were taken by looters and scavangers. Crap like that can make it to the black market pretty quick.

Don't forget that guns can be made with printers in the ME universe.

[Iakus]

Phaedon wrote...
Eh, obviously...?

They are not disposable during battle, and that was true throughout ME1?

Your point is completely invalid, however. I present the argument that thermal clips are heatsinks, so it's based on the same components and to an extent technolodgy, and you say that they didn't dispose thermal clips when they were expensive and well...not disposable? This is why you throw away a plastic bag but not a leather bag, you know.

I think we're having a disconnect as to what exactly qualifies as "the same thing"

Would I be wrong in saying you would think a plastic bag and a leather bag are the same? I for one would think of them as different items that serve the same basic function because, as you say, you throw away the plastic bag but reuse (and take care of) the leather one.

It...is?!

You are repeating whatever I have just said, and that only gets the argument further downhill.

Thermal Clips = Heatsinks. The kind that you throw away.

I never claimed that thermal clips were reusable (Hint: They burn up faster, which is why they are cheaper), but you claim that thermal clips are not heatsinks.

Actually I was trying to be funny. Sorry if it didn't work.

But as I said above, the fact that thermal clips are easily removable, disposable, and are in fact not meant to last, makes them different from "classic" heat sinks in a fundamental way. Different enough that they are even called by a different name.

What would have made it better for me? How about adding a few lines to the codex:

"Shortly thereafter, it was discovered that many older model heat sinks could be modified into makeshift thermal clips with little effort. This drastically lessened the lifespan of the heat sink, but greatly increased the rate of fire for the weapon itself. News of these modification spread like wildfire through the Extranet, and before long the vast majority of the private security and criminal elements had changed over to the thermal clip system as well."

What adjustments?

The hypothetical adjustments I just made up on the spot that would allow old-style heat sinks to function like thermal clips, to help explain why every merc in teh Terminus and his brother drops them instead of using weapons with the old school cooldown system.

Every model is different from each other, due to the materials that it is made of. Thermal clips just use cheaper materials...

I said it wasn't perfect. But I find the improbability of jury-rigging long-lived heat sinks into disposable thermal clips less painful than the thorough saturation of thermal clips throughout all the governments and organizations of the galaxy in negative ten years.

Shepard: "This gun is missing its heat sink"
Miranda: "Heat sinks haven't been used in firearms for over a year. Disposable thermal clips are now standard. There should be one..." blahblahblah

You have no evidence to disprove that:
1) The Alliance didn't start alpha, beta or even regular development of thermal clips during ME1.
2) "Thermal clips" are not military jargon.

1) Given Shep died about a month after the Battle of the Citadel, I find it unlikely. Particularly since the codex itself states "While organic arms manufacturers were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second"

You saw how C-Sec and the Alliance bureaucracy acts. Do you honestly think they'd get thermal clips developed in a month? Plus training with them? Especially if they were initially doubtful they'd be worth it?

2) I'm gonna assume it's not, since it appeared nowhere in the dialogue of ME1, the ME1 codex, or Revelation (the only novel I've read)

[rubyreader]

Murmillos wrote...

0) It's not that it's a problem in modern day shooters, because we all know modern day shooters operate just like modern weapons. We know todays weapons shoots bullets that you can only fire from "ammo".

1) But in ME1, they got rid of then need for bullets/ammo - so when they said, here you go, you now need bullets to fire your weapons - then that was the problem.

2) Yes, ME1 system was broken were they allowed you to create the no heat generation weapon (which was stupid as you are doing minimal damage to be able to do so... you must like playing ME2 with ONLY the starting weapons too)

3) THE FIX would have to tie together upgrades and cooling, so that non would over take the other, each "cooling" upgrade thus increase the damage equally so that heat/cooling is a constant value the entire game.
3a) [MY 'idea'], 99% heat to 0% heat = 2.5 seconds wait. "Over heat" is 4 seconds wait to 0% OR you may use a limited cooling sink that completes to 0% cooling in 1 second on activation.


(of course.. I would like to know if they ever thought of this method, implemented a test build and tested it as such.)

I heard the PC users found some evidence of a hybrid system actually. I'm not a PC user so don't know from first hand knowledge.

[rubyreader]

Xeranx wrote...

Hopefully someone will come out with a coalesced.ini tweak so I can have my cooldown. Probably would have been better if thermal clips were introduced as back up in case your weapon overheated enough so that the thermal clip warped. Then, you pop that clip out and put a new one in. It's the idea that you only hope combat wouldn't become a drag-out fight so you don't run the risk of warping a thermal clip, but just in case you have a spare -- or two.

Honestly, there have been people who have come up with better ideas of how to blend the two on this board and the fact that they won't do it...I don't know what to say anymore.

Yeah a Medi-Gel like Thermal Clip was a way I could really get behind, obviously a bit more common.

[Murmillos]

rubyreader wrote...
I heard the PC users found some evidence of a hybrid system actually. I'm not a PC user so don't know from first hand knowledge.

We kind of do; with minor editing of the Coalesced.ini.. And having a 2.5 second cooldown is pure win.

There are still some oddities and kinks - but gameplay is faster and more fluid. Still have the paper shields to worry about.

[rubyreader]

Captain Kibosh wrote...

My theory about Bioware's decision to stick with thermal clips: game play TRUMPS considerations of established narrative lore and perceived tactical viability.

It seems at least for some die hard fans, the objection to the ME2 thermal clips boils down (pun intended) to two essential problems: the concepts of thermal clips allegedly chafes against the established Mass Effect munitions lore AND it chafes against most people's sense that there is an inherent tactical advantage to having a "cooldown period" versus what operationally amounts to ammo clips.

In terms of the ME lore, it was a pretty creative take on gun ammunition to have what essentially amounted to unlimited ammunition: a block of material from which your fire arms would scrape off micro bullets.  The only limitation to the unlimited ammo was the fact that firing so many bullets would overheat the gun in question, thus requiring a cooldown period for the gun to fire again.  (I notice some folks have been calling this system "regenerative ammo" which is technically incorrect, the ammo CAN run out and it exists in a finite amount, it's the cooling period that allows the gun to fire again).  This concept then locked in with some gameplayers belief that there was an inherent tactical advantage to not ever having to worry about ammo clips again.

I'm not saying anything new here, but what I don't think has been mentioned is about WHY the game developers might have seen the use of clips as preferable in terms of game play (if not narrative lore or tactics):

• A cooldown period disrupts the emotional pacing of combat, i.e., in ME1, you can hide behind cover waiting for your gun to work again; in ME2, you get to reload fairly quickly to resume combat or you are forced to run out from cover to find some additional thermal clips lying around (yes yes, I know tactically it's absurd to have to be running around the field of combat to find clips to make your gun fire again, but in terms of game play, it sure does gets you to move your lolligaggin' butt!)
•  Game play is about including a system of rewards, part of enforcing that is simply a matter of Pavlov's response (you hear that satisfying "k-chlik" of your thermal clip and you know your good to blow away some baddies); think of a Vegas slot machine which clanks out its coins in payouts--same concept--you hear that noise as a reinforcement and it makes you want to play it more; RPGs are all about those little moments of insidious positive enforcement for gathering and collecting (whetehr it be stats, upgrades, medigels, and yes, even thermal clips, etc.)
• Given BioWare's stated goal of streamlining combat to make it more accessible to more game players, providing a familiar gun play element for all those neanderthalic first or third person shooter players out there offers a point of entry for them (I'll leave the debate for whether or not they should to other threads on this forum)

Finally, if anyone is looking for an explanation that MIGHT satisfy the naysayers to thermal clips on a narrative and tactical level (if justifications of gameply are not enough), here is an entry I fond in the ME wiki, although I can't vouch for whether or not it was directly quoted from the game's Codex:

Modern infantry weapons are micro-scaled mass accelerators, using
mass-reducing fields and magnetic force to propel miniature slugs to
lethal speeds. Nearly every gun on the battlefield is laden with
features, from targeting auto-assists to projectile shavers that can
generate thousands of rounds of ammunition from a small, internal block
of metal.
It was long thought that personal weapons had plateaued in
performance, but the geth proved all theories wrong. Mathematically
reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic
barriers, most firefights were won by the side who could put the most
rounds down-range the fastest. But combatants were forced to
deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat, or pause as their
weapons vented.
To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat
sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers were
initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier
can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with superior
enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead, and
today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips

So there you have it, the Geth have calculated that statistically, you're better better off using thermal clips.  Who am I to argue against the collective computing power of the Geth? 

[*]Very well reasoned, and I agree with the vast majority of your points here both specifically and in general analysis. I want to make that clear, that I agree with much of what you wrote here.  Unfortunately my time in the Battletech universe has shown me an overheating mechanism in NO WAY interferes with the pacing of combat, it can in fact get far more hectic. 
[*]And while perfectly logical from the Geth's point of view, given THOSE Geth were squarely under the thumb of Reapers, and given the Reapers penchant for leading technological advancement a certain way, I don't entirely TRUST anything developed from the Geth (or at least those ones).
[*]Their numbers are also based on certain assumptions, not least of which that combatants can keep up in ammo by scrounging and scavenging. Sure you want a lot of rounds at any one time to tear down regenerative shields, but you probably also want a lot of rounds in general in case you DON'T drop your opponent and medi-gel/shields/barriers get regenerated.  If anything it works in the small scale that Shep enounters, but on widescale planetary invasions, I can see that rapidly going south...which in a meta narrative sense might entirely be the intention of the Reapers.
[*]And as an infiltrator, Sniper Rifles at least should have the option....

[rubyreader]

Murmillos wrote...

rubyreader wrote...
I heard the PC users found some evidence of a hybrid system actually. I'm not a PC user so don't know from first hand knowledge.

We kind of do; with minor editing of the Coalesced.ini.. And having a 2.5 second cooldown is pure win.

There are still some oddities and kinks - but gameplay is faster and more fluid. Still have the paper shields to worry about.

Thanks, I had heard stuff, but hadn't actually seen it.

[InfiniteCuts]

edit: wrong thread lol

Modifié par InfiniteCuts, 27 mai 2011 - 02:18 .

[RPGamer13]

I don't mind the thermal clips, I am just glad they resupply all the weapons instead of having different pickups for different weapons, they would most likely be based on the ammo used by the enemy, forcing you to use the same weapons.

It also helped me on Insanity that picking up Heavy ammo also maxed out the ammo of the other weapons.

[JayhartRIC]

RPGamer13 wrote...

I don't mind the thermal clips, I am just glad they resupply all the weapons instead of having different pickups for different weapons, they would most likely be based on the ammo used by the enemy, forcing you to use the same weapons.

It also helped me on Insanity that picking up Heavy ammo also maxed out the ammo of the other weapons.

This brings up a good point.  If you expend one magazine from each weapon, when you pick up one thermal clip, all the weapons get filled back up.  If you use three clips from one weapon, you only get one magazine of ammo instead of three.  The game is made to encourage you to use different weapons.

[The Spamming Troll]

is this a bad idea for ME3s ammo system?

ME1s overheating weapons, with a "thermal clip reload" option for quickly getting back into the fight. your character carries a set number of thermal clips to reload, kindof like carrying medigel and have to choose the best times to do a reload, or wait for the cooldown.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 27 mai 2011 - 03:27 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

is this a bad idea for ME3s ammo system?

ME1s overheating weapons, with a "thermal clip reload" option for quickly getting back into the fight. your character carries a set number of thermal clips to reload, kindof like carrying medigel and have to choose the best times to do a reload, or wait for the cooldown.

yep, because its just me1 ammo all over again, there is  no real difference than gaining a second or 2 tops in time,

[Notanything]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

is this a bad idea for ME3s ammo system?

ME1s overheating weapons, with a "thermal clip reload" option for quickly getting back into the fight. your character carries a set number of thermal clips to reload, kindof like carrying medigel and have to choose the best times to do a reload, or wait for the cooldown.

yep, because its just me1 ammo all over again, there is  no real difference than gaining a second or 2 tops in time,

But isn't that "second or two" why they switched to thermal clips in the first place?

[Bluko]

CajNatalie wrote...

About Shotguns: You're obviously doin' it wrong.
Or do you think us Vanguards have so much fun using nothing but our pea-shooters and biotics...?

Off topic, I know, but I had to defend the shotgun.

Yeah but the Shotguns have like no range at all in ME2. Look I don't expect Shotguns to instant kill someone across the room, but they should at least hit them and do some damage. I mean Shotguns basically exist so you don't have really have to aim. You just point and things die assuming they aren't real far away. The fact you just about have to be close enough to kiss an enemy in order to hurt them with a Shotgun is a tad insulting.

The Claymore is beast, but only when it's in it's cage. I have a hard time making good use of Shotguns outside of the Vanguard class. I mean was basically like...

*Husks pop-up*
Shepard:"You want to **** with me? Okay. Dirty little cockroaches!
Husk:"Eeeeennnnhhhh..."
Shepard:"You want to play rough? Okay. Say hello to my little friend!"
*Shepard uses Carnage*

To paraphrase Zaeed...

"I'd give up every gun in ME2 I own for one more mission with one of those ****ty old ME1 shotguns."

[Cheesy Blue]

Bluko wrote...

CajNatalie wrote...

About Shotguns: You're obviously doin' it wrong.
Or do you think us Vanguards have so much fun using nothing but our pea-shooters and biotics...?

Off topic, I know, but I had to defend the shotgun.

Yeah but the Shotguns have like no range at all in ME2. Look I don't expect Shotguns to instant kill someone across the room, but they should at least hit them and do some damage. I mean Shotguns basically exist so you don't have really have to aim. You just point and things die assuming they aren't real far away. The fact you just about have to be close enough to kiss an enemy in order to hurt them with a Shotgun is a tad insulting.

The Claymore is beast, but only when it's in it's cage. I have a hard time making good use of Shotguns outside of the Vanguard class. I mean was basically like...

*Husks pop-up*
Shepard:"You want to **** with me? Okay. Dirty little cockroaches!
Husk:"Eeeeennnnhhhh..."
Shepard:"You want to play rough? Okay. Say hello to my little friend!"
*Shepard uses Carnage*

To paraphrase Zaeed...

"I'd give up every gun in ME2 I own for one more mission with one of those ****ty old ME1 shotguns."

I never found shotguns in general very appealing in ME1 or ME2. I almost exclusively play a Solider and I have absolutely no use for shotguns whatsoever.

[Notanything]

Bluko wrote...

CajNatalie wrote...

About Shotguns: You're obviously doin' it wrong.
Or do you think us Vanguards have so much fun using nothing but our pea-shooters and biotics...?

Off topic, I know, but I had to defend the shotgun.

Yeah but the Shotguns have like no range at all in ME2. Look I don't expect Shotguns to instant kill someone across the room, but they should at least hit them and do some damage. I mean Shotguns basically exist so you don't have really have to aim. You just point and things die assuming they aren't real far away. The fact you just about have to be close enough to kiss an enemy in order to hurt them with a Shotgun is a tad insulting.

The Claymore is beast, but only when it's in it's cage. I have a hard time making good use of Shotguns outside of the Vanguard class. I mean was basically like...

*Husks pop-up*
Shepard:"You want to **** with me? Okay. Dirty little cockroaches!
Husk:"Eeeeennnnhhhh..."
Shepard:"You want to play rough? Okay. Say hello to my little friend!"
*Shepard uses Carnage*

To paraphrase Zaeed...

"I'd give up every gun in ME2 I own for one more mission with one of those ****ty old ME1 shotguns."

Shotguns in all video games have always exaggeratingly short ranged than they really are.  It is quite unfortunate.  But I've seen what the explosive shotgun combination is like on Mass Effect.  Forget the Claymore, THAT is what I call a beast.

[Epic777]

^^ I don't think its even that. Most video games cannot really simulate combat distances. Assault rifles are for ranges around 300m and under. Battle rifles are meant to be beyound the 300m range. Shotguns are for ranges around 100m.

[Ahriman]

Phaedon wrote...
http://masseffect.wi...ps#Small_Arms_2

ME2 Codex predictably. Jeez, you are proving one retcon with another one.

Um, yup? The Reapers could have just as well lended that technolodgy as well? Also, thermal clips/heatsinks are universal in organic space, so it would be silly to not have the geth to not have adaptable models.  Same applies for the Collectors, for starters, the CB can't be self-reliant forever.

It was told many times, that geth absolutely don't care about organic standarts. Collectors were'n supposed to be on a battlefield, there is a zero chance that they would scavenge enemie's thermal clipses.

Yeah, OK, that's like your opinion.

As well as your, but are basing on it your other argument. "It was so awesome that everyone changed their weapon immediately".

They don't need new weapons, how did you deduce that? They just reload their older ones with thermal clips instead of classic heatsinks. No, they don't even have to refit them.

Heatsinks weren't detachable more than a sight for example. They were usual part of weapon. Just look at ME1 and ME2. ME1 weapon is closed.

I..never said that? 
The more you shoot a weapon, no matter if it overheats or not, the more it "breaks", until you have to change it. And I doubt any military would use unreliable heatsinks for more than a mission.

That's your opinion. It's passive cooling, there is no indication that it brokes so fast.

[Jebel Krong]

Phaedon wrote...

Um, yup? The Reapers could have just as well lended that technolodgy as well? Also, thermal clips/heatsinks are universal in organic space, so it would be silly to not have the geth to not have adaptable models.  Same applies for the Collectors, for starters, the CB can't be self-reliant forever.

that's.... very bad reasoning: firstly - universal in organic space in just 2 years? no chance. the collectors picking them up and adopting them in the same time-period? again no chance. (especially when they at least had access to reaper/prothean remnant technology which is more advanced than current galactic standard, or are you forgetting the particle beam? and you conveniently forget the derelict reaper which, even if cerberus personell had a few guns around, would not have had piles of ammo everywhere.

Phaedon wrote...

Third, heatsink is a radiator. It's not changed every time weapon is overheated.

I..never said that? 
The more you shoot a weapon, no matter if it overheats or not, the more it "breaks", until you have to change it.

Phaedon wrote...
Yeeah, here we go again. The maintance thing is a huge misconception. Every time you fire, your weapon must become less efficient, if it follows any laws of physics. Therefore, heatsinks must be changed frequently as well.

that's also not strictly true - firstly the ME1 codex stated that weapons fired rounds within mass effect fields - that alone would reduce wear down to practically zero, hence the single ammo block and passive heatsink lasting longer than one mission, so inventing a sudden increase in "wear" to fit your thermal clip argument isn't possible.

secondly, we are talking about a far-future level of technology where you are firing a portable railgun, of different types - the ME1 codex went into some detail on how that was possible, cooldowns and ammo size etc, so ME2 was a huge retcon whichever way you slice it and for whatever supposed gameplay improvements it brought. inventing more justifications for said retcon does not make it more valid within the games own history.

that said changing the system for gameplay reasons was justification enough, provided it works, but frankly i'm not sure it was better.

[Jebel Krong]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

I have a different opinion. First of all you don't need Cloak's damage bonus to one-shot enemies with the Widow, second, you get sniper-slowdown by aiming (no need to Cloak), third, Cloak has the highest cooldown of all powers in ME2 (the time Cloaked + the (base) 6 seconds cooldown). Using Cloak before firing is, imo, a waste of cooldown - only when you're dealing with elites and bosses (who cannot be OSOK ed) the damage bonus is worth is.

you must be playing on easy, because on hardcore or insanity, even with buffed ammo (AP/Warp) most collectors take 2 headshots apiece, with the widow.

Bozorgmehr wrote...
One of the greatest strengths of Cloak is the maneuverability it provides. You can even chose to simply ignore all enemies and move along (dull though). Getting yourself in a position, that will ensure enemies will be exposed to you or your squadmates, is very effective and Cloak's duration allows you to move almost anywhere, and should an enemy occupy your desired position - draw you SMG and unload a clip in his head at close range.

that depends very much on your upgrade path, personally i don't find moving around difficult, in fact i do it all the time to flank enemies, but the game still "cheats" by having enemies turn on you when you decloak, even in cover. secondly on harder difficulties you most assuredly DO need the damage buff assassination cloak brings.

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Ammo is everywhere, and ME2's levels are very linear. It's hard to miss anything simply moving forward. Almost every cover spot has clips around; dead enemies drop clips; there are multiple heavy weapon containers in every level. Point being, if you play dynamically - i.e. don't stay in one place all the time - you'll hardly ever run out of SR ammo (assuming you make each shot count).

some enemies drop clips, and there is usually some lying around (though hardly naturally placed - like weapons lockers for example), but in a fast-paced battle, moving from cover to cover and killing enemies i don't want to waste time or cloak having to stop in a likely not very good tacticallly situation to pick up ammo just so i can carry on doing that, it spoils the fast, fluid gameplay and immersion.

and listen, i'm not one to brag but i can hit 3/5 headshots on moving targets in an average round playing gears multiplayer against real humans - aiming on AI enemies is ******-easy (something i'll get back to in a minute).

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Viper is an awesome weapon; maybe more a AR with scope than a sniper rifle though. It's insane against armor and is best used against powerful enemies who cannot be OSOK ed. Harbinger, Scions, YMIRs, Gunships and the like, Geth Primes etc are killed faster with Viper than any other SR. It's also worth noting that the Viper will stagger enemies (100% chance) who got hit in the head. You can empty a clip into a Geth Prime, for example, without having to worry it shoots back (will be staggered the entire time); Viper is also great when you slap Cryo Ammo on it (which is useless on the Widow); every shot which hit enemy health bar will freeze target.

ok, you like it, so it's horses for courses. i find it markedly slower to take down pretty much anything, but then it could come down to difficulty level. i also found - as i already said - that the "stagger" could cause you to miss your next shot, even if fired immediately. tbh the only thing i found easier not using the widow on were barrier'd-up praetorians, and that's what an smg with warp is for, then it's a simple couple of shots to finish, even on insanity. your exposure time is also markedly less for damage dealt, too - important more against multiple enemies or harbinger.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Can't comment on that one, fortunately there's no (crappy) aim assist on pc - good point though, I've heard a lot of complains about this poor system, shouldn't be hard to add the option to turn is off in ME3

oh i play on pc and 360 and the aim assist is still there, it's just harder to notice with more precise mouse control. playing another TPS - i mentioned gears - and coming to back i find it causes me to miss more headshots than literally anything else. a toggle system for me3 would be nice there are also a few other things that need to be fixed, like glitching at the edge of cover (up/down when the game can't decide whether you should be aiming to the side or over cover), and slow "bullet-time" power usage in zoom mode.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 27 mai 2011 - 08:55 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Jebel Krong wrote...

you must be playing on easy, because on hardcore or insanity, even with buffed ammo (AP/Warp) most collectors take 2 headshots apiece, with the widow.

I think either you haven't upgraded your sniper rifles or your aim is off - AP Ammo is useless against Collectors btw - putting it on the Widow makes no difference whatsoever. If you can one-shot a Collector Drone with Tungsten Ammo equiped, he will die without TA too.

Without Cloak/ARush you'll need 3 upgrades to one-shot every (non-elite/boss) with armor; you'll need 5 upgrades to one-shot everything else (shield/barrier) or you can equip either Disruptor/Warp Ammo if you only have 3 upgrades for the extra ~20% damage (3 upgrades are available two missions in - Mordin and Grunt). Note, this is on NG+, @ level 30 when enemies have max HP - you don't need this when playing a normal game; with 3 upgrades you can one-shot everything (without ammo) up to level 20-25.

You can even one-shot all grunts with the Mantis (fully upgraded and with ammo powers) - no need to activate Cloak or ARush, can be used by all classes (including Adept, Vanguard, Sentinel and Engineer).

that depends very much on your upgrade path, personally i don't find moving around difficult, in fact i do it all the time to flank enemies, but the game still "cheats" by having enemies turn on you when you decloak, even in cover. secondly on harder difficulties you most assuredly DO need the damage buff assassination cloak brings.

ME2 doesn't have a stealth system - it's impossible to hide; enemies will always know where you are even while Cloaked (they only don't shoot you for the duration) - you cannot 'sneak' up to enemies. I do hope this changes in ME3.

some enemies drop clips, and there is usually some lying around (though hardly naturally placed - like weapons lockers for example), but in a fast-paced battle, moving from cover to cover and killing enemies i don't want to waste time or cloak having to stop in a likely not very good tacticallly situation to pick up ammo just so i can carry on doing that, it spoils the fast, fluid gameplay and immersion.

Like I said; ME2 levels are lineair - the only 'way' forward is straight ahead. Clips glow, they're easy to spot, and strafing one or two steps to the left or right to collect them doesn't sound like immersion breaking to me. Furthermore, sniping isn't fast, fluid or exciting; moving around and picking enemies at close range is more like it (imo) - when you take out enemies at point blank range, you collect the clips they drop when they die automatically.

ok, you like it, so it's horses for courses. i find it markedly slower to take down pretty much anything, but then it could come down to difficulty level. i also found - as i already said - that the "stagger" could cause you to miss your next shot, even if fired immediately. tbh the only thing i found easier not using the widow on were barrier'd-up praetorians, and that's what an smg with warp is for, then it's a simple couple of shots to finish, even on insanity. your exposure time is also markedly less for damage dealt, too - important more against multiple enemies or harbinger.

I don't really like sniping; shotguns are much more interesting - I only dismissed claims about the Viper being a 'crappy SR'.

If the Widow can one-shot enemies, it's superior, if enemies require multiple shots things change. Widow will beat the Viper if 3.9 (=4) shots are needed; Viper wins if 4.1 (=5) shots are needed. Viper will also lockdown enemies; they're unable to fire back. This is important if you fight powerful enemies out in the open.

Also, going for the Widow requires sacrificing other bonus weapon (training) - the Widow is great, but an Infiltrator using the Viper plus a SG or AR can kill faster.

I never noticed aim assist; for all I know it doesn't exist on pc.