791 réponses à ce sujet

[lorgren]

Agree with Obro, call it what it is. AMMO. Bioware took a unique idea and made it the same as, well, 95% of every other shooter out there. Between the clip system, the no mako system, the scanning for minerals BS system, taking the inventory and items out of an RPG, forcing us to wear one type of armor, stripping the skill system to something thats not really even worth looking at. Add to that numerous other minor "flaws", "cop outs" and "save a buck here" changes.

This game ends up an epic fail of biblical proportions. If it hadn't have been for ME1s resounding success, the storyline in both games, the fore knowledge of a 3rd ME, and Bioware's huge name, this game would have been lost to annals of cheap forgotten video game time, and written off as a mildly disturbing dream.

I hope ME3 is better.

[gridlockSG400]

I already figured out how I'll fix the problem. Everytime I reload, I'll shut my eyes so I don't see it. Then, when I run out of ammo I'll start going "BEEPBEEPBEEPBEEPBEEP" to emulate the cooling down sound until I find more ammo and pretend it cooled down.

Genius.

[ShiioPerda nar Telia]

I never really had a problem with the change to a more conventional ammo system. Most of the points in ME2 where you were at a genuine risk of running out [garrus recruitment, the endboss, etc] simply had respawning clips. From a purely gameplay perspective, the impact of the shift has been minimal.

Still, I like the original system too. Well-explained and fit into the setting nicely, made things a bit different.

[Wojtek the Soldier Bear]

The conversion to an "ammo" system was, I bet, due to the increased speed and intensity of combat. This is the same reason that the super short global cooldown was applied to the powers/abilities. Having to wait for an overheated gun in ME was a nuisance; the same type of wait in ME2 would be colossally frustrating, and deadly in many situations, unless they reduced the wait time for weapon cooldown. A weapon naturally dissipating heat in 1 or 2 seconds doesn't make a lot of sense, so Bioware came up with thermal clips, canonized them, and voila, combat is nice and fluid and fun for everyone.

[tjzsf]

See, I must be playing wrong or something, b/c I never really had to wait on an overheated gun, even as a soldier, unless I got too happy with an AR (what was that about being able to tape down the trigger button?). Better would be if your current clip regenerating ammo if you don't shoot for a while, or as someone else in a different thread mentioned, having coolant instead of clips so that you could flush X amount of coolant to remove heat buildup. Then, voila, lore improvement is actually an improvement that makes sense, combat becomes nicer and fluider, reduced scrounging for clips

[Sgt Stryker]

I get the impression that when playing ME1, some people would just mash down the trigger until the overheat bar completely filled up, then waited for the gun to cool down. This is actually a very bad practice, as it takes much longer for the gun to cool down from an overheat event, than from a partially filled heat bar. Is it really that difficult to just stop shooting before the heat bar gets completely filled?

[JonathonPR]

My main problem was that in the first game the weapons were fairly accurate to the science of how they were supposed to work. It was good. It was not perfect but I was happy. Combat tactics change according to the equipment at hand. Muskets suck compared to modern firearms. The same should be true when comparing modern to future. An atlatl does not work the same as a crossbow. The mechanic felt like it was driven more by the desire to feel like other shooters rather than trying to work with the mechanics of the universe they had made. The system in the first game was not broken when you account for a tech curve. The specter equipment was cutting edge and expensive. Look up how much custom and prototype military technology compared to mass produced equipment. The weapons in mass effect 2 are not rail guns or Gauss guns. They are caseless ammunition weapons from the Shadowrun Arsenal core rulebook. I don't have a problem when a weapon works how the science says it should. None of the rail guns can use ferrous rounds. The iron magnetizes and gets stuck between the rails. Particle beams do not make good long range weapons in space. The particles start to repel and diffuse the beam. But in the end I wish they would have science in the scifi. Also why cant my probes scan the planet for me? Seaquest had whiskers.

[ThePwener]

Obro wrote...

I wish they just called them ammo because they ARE ammo.

No they are not.

[JonathonPR]

Their in game mechanic is that of ammunition not heat sinks.

My car has a radiator and coolant tank. nuclear reactors have cooling systems. ww1 machine guns had water jackets. some enterprising solider would have just made a cooling tank system in backpack form and connected it to his gun. there done. it might be a little bulky and look silly but he can take the ME version of a machine gun and hold the trigger for minutes. what military would not take this advantage.

[ThePwener]

JonathonPR wrote...

it might be a little bulky and look silly but he can take the ME version of a machine gun and hold the trigger for minutes. what military would not take this advantage.

Heat-Sink guy - My gun just overheated, time to pop the heat sink. Oh no, Im out! Oh, theres one next to a fallen enemy! Let's go back to shootin'!!!


Coolant guy - Oh no, my gun has overheated, now I must stand here with my thumb up my ass for 10 seconds while the enemy advances. Thanks BW!

Modifié par ThePwener, 23 juin 2011 - 10:25 .

[CitizenThom]

Is ammo or overheating really all that necessary for the game mechanics? What is the negative impact on gameplay, difficulty, etc. if there isn't some form of reload or wait before shooting again or whatever? If the game doesn't have blind shooting, health and shield depletion are enough to keep someone from running around constantly firing... isn't it?

[MassEffect762]

It's a stupid change imo but tolerable, I play for the story.(oh and by the way ME2's story blowed imo)

They changed healing from medkits to self recharge and weapon cooling to ammo. *Facepalm*

[JonathonPR]

ThePwener wrote...

JonathonPR wrote...

it might be a little bulky and look silly but he can take the ME version of a machine gun and hold the trigger for minutes. what military would not take this advantage.

Heat-Sink guy - My gun just overheated, time to pop the heat sink. Oh no, Im out! Oh, theres one next to a fallen enemy! Let's go back to shootin'!!!


Coolant guy - Oh no, my gun has overheated, now I must stand here with my thumb up my ass for 10 seconds while the enemy advances. Thanks BW!

So if I was a villan in ME3 I could I could defeat infeltration teams by outfitting my minions with older model weapons that dont have ejectable heatclips? wonderful I shall incorporate this into my table top rpg strategy. The PCs enter the compound and run out of "heat sinks" after mowing down wave after wave of poorly equiped infantry. But wait whats this? there is are snipers with older model guns waiting for them to break from cover. concealed and at range it becomes a waiting game. the high powered guns might fire slow but they can do so all day. open movement will draw fire but the number and exact location of snipers is unknown. lucky for the PCs there are plenty of older model guns with the dead minions. Each PC picks one up and fires in the general direction of the sniper fire. Will they be able to escape or will they attempt to go further into the base?

I am going to use this scenerio for my next game. I cant wait to see how my players respond.

[DrinkySmurf]

ThePwener wrote...

JonathonPR wrote...

it might be a little bulky and look silly but he can take the ME version of a machine gun and hold the trigger for minutes. what military would not take this advantage.

Heat-Sink guy - My gun just overheated, time to pop the heat sink. Oh no, Im out! Oh, theres one next to a fallen enemy! Let's go back to shootin'!!!


Coolant guy - Oh no, my gun has overheated, now I must stand here with my thumb up my ass for 10 seconds while the enemy advances. Thanks BW!

Remotely intelligent Coolant guy- Ha, I am so glad I took the time to make a gun that never overheats, never loses accuracy and does incredible damage...why would I want ammo again?
It was easy to make a good gun with no risk of overheating.
ME1 was not a shooter, it was an RPG that used some shooter mechanics.  ME2 is a shooter that uses poorly implemented RPG elements that is saved only by a perfect story and engaging characters.  In short ME= RPG-shooter, ME2=SHOOTER-SHOOTER-SHOOTER-rpg.

I have no interest in shooters, none, I hate shooters.  Regenerating ammo takes away the shooter feel.  Then all I have to do is modify/ugrade a gun until I no longer have to worry about overheating at all.  The same way you could augment a spell in another rpg.

[CitizenThom]

I'm not a fan of fps, save for Resistance, which was the right combination of fun, story and shooting.

But third person shooters, with a good story and interesting characters, such as Uncharted 2 and Mass Effect 2, for some reason I enjoy them a whole lot more... maybe because third person shooters aren't as demanding of an itchy trigger finger when compared to first person shooters.

Mass Effect 2 with more rpg elements would be an amazing game in my opinion. As ME2 stands, I already enjoy the mix of shooting, talking, and scanning. The pace of the game shifts just enough to keep each phase of the gameplay enjoyable. If the levelling up and equipment management started to resemble a more rpg-type approach... it would be as close to a perfect game as could ever be hoped for I think.

[Eurhetemec]

DrinkySmurf wrote...

I have no interest in shooters, none, I hate shooters.  Regenerating ammo takes away the shooter feel.  Then all I have to do is modify/ugrade a gun until I no longer have to worry about overheating at all.  The same way you could augment a spell in another rpg.

I can't think of any good CRPG where you could augment a spell so much that you never had to worry about MP ever again. So that's a crummy analogy.

If you don't like the shooter elements of a game series that has always been a shooter-RPG, well, that's sad, but you can just turn down the difficulty.

[JonathonPR]

Its not that its a bad game mechanic for games in general. Its a bad mechanic for the setting. Part of the appeal of rpgs is immersion and believability. The boundaries and rules for a setting start at the beginning. When mechanics are changed with an unsatisfactory explanation it breaks immersion and the suspension of disbelief is ruined. I accept and expect Star Trek to make stuff up and use improbable workarounds. This is a common occurrence and is part of the suspension of disbelief. Its like the Star Wars mediclorine. Or if Gandalf stopped using magic and switched to eastern martial arts for the rest of the series. The change breeches continuity and no amount of retcon or additional writing can fix it.

I enjoy the mechanic....... in other games. As I said above the mechanic fits in many other settings. I have fun playing shooters in their many forms but they stick to the cannon of the setting.

The system is a simulation of how that setting behaves. If the series had started with this system we would have the argument of how the weapons are modern even though it is in the future. The original system felt futuristic. It felt like few other things felt like. The ammo system feels like a step back in technology.

The flavor of the mechanics changed. I liked the strawberry and pineapple but now its coconut and chocolate. If the flavor of your favorite snack was changed while the name and most other components stayed the same how would you feel about your purchase? The color, texture, and nutrients are the same but the flavor is different.






Oh and its single player. You dont have to use the over powered abilites in a game when it is not a requirement to use it. Dont lament the fact that the nuke in your arsenal can tip the balance so easily when your the one whe chooses if the button is pushed. Some like to do a run on god mode to see what its like. Should they take the option out of Crackdown?

Modifié par JonathonPR, 25 juin 2011 - 12:23 .