165 réponses à ce sujet

[Moon Elf13]

Goodness! So much whining and complaining. Obsessing about a small part in a big game, and a part that actually made sense. And what is with all the crying about Alistair's face. You don't like it? Go to the Dragon Age Nexus site and look for one of SEVERAL modder-created face morphs for him. One will surely hit the spot.
I, for one, am grateful to whoever designed him and probably (I'm guessing) went through painstaking effort to make him as close as possible to the original in a model system that does not accomodate the Origins face models. I should know: It was immposible for me to design a custom Hawke face even close to a human face I designed in Origins.
Instead of shooting down every little thing Bioware does, try to appreciate all their efforts in making such masterpiece games for our enjoyment. A little gratitude is the least you complainers can give.

[Hatchetman77]

PurebredCorn wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Aside from looks, it was just another badly constructed and cheap cameo, which I can't understand what Alistair or Hawke gained from their 1 minute long meeting... It was one of the many WTF moments I had with DA 2, for sure.

I enjoyed writing it. It was a fun moment, and felt like returning home to a character I knew well, at least for a bit. If you didn't enjoy it, oh well.

I have to confess that when I heard about all the cameos I was kind of meh about it. But then when I got to playing DA2 and ran into Warden Alistair the first time it was like running into a rock star in real life... I squeed!! I'm glad you included these little scenes of Ali in the game, it's delightful.

For me that was the problem, he was like running into a rock star in real life.  He has nothing to do with your story.  I think it would have been much more clever to find a way to work these cameos into the story and make them relevant to Hawke. 

For example Liliana was a sister in the Lotherine Chantry and Hawke and family are from Lotherine.  If we had an origin story prior to running from the darkspawn at the start of the game Hawke could have met Lilianna himself and had a relationship with her that is relavent to Hawke's story and not the Warden's.  She may have been known as the "crazy lady who thinks she talks to the maker" or she could have been a close friend of the Hawke family, making sure they had food and clothing when times are tough.  Seeing these characters from Hawke`s perspective (which would be radically different from the Warden`s) would have added to Hawke's story as well as adding something to the character from Origins.  As it stands these cameos were just filler and did nothing for the story. Jast having her in there and saying "ZOMG it's THE Liliana who helped the warden stop the blight!" adds nothing to Hawke's story nor the character of Liliana. This is very much the same as Isabella's introduction to you included her saying that she ****ed the Warden didn't add anything (I mean come on, it made her out to be a groupie) and Allister's appearance didn't add anything.  

Modifié par Hatchetman77, 23 mai 2011 - 06:32 .

[Hatchetman77]

Moon Elf13 wrote...
Goodness! So much whining and complaining.

If DA2 was a movie and a film critic made a comment that the cameos felt forced and added nothing to the story then it would be a prefectly legitimate complaint, but when a gamer says the same about a story in a game they are just a nerdy, whiny gamer.  I am always amazed by how many gamers themselves love to perpetuate that steriotype. 

[Moon Elf13]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

Moon Elf13 wrote...
Goodness! So much whining and complaining.

If DA2 was a movie and a film critic made a comment that the cameos felt forced and added nothing to the story then it would be a prefectly legitimate complaint, but when a gamer says the same about a story in a game they are just a nerdy, whiny gamer.  I am always amazed by how many gamers themselves love to perpetuate that steriotype. 

I was not perpetuating any steriotype. Look at the thread more in depth and you will understand what I meant. Some comments were borderline vicious. There should be some lines and ettiquete. Saying that a game designer, who put much work into something, was high or drunk when they designed something is just wrong. So, Hatchetman77, when I said "whining and complaining", I was being too kind and greatly understated things. I don't consider gamers who make legitimate complaints whiners, as long as they stay tactful. Your arguements about Leliana, for example, were very well put and remained civil. And please, if you are going to comment on something I said, don't use just what suits your little thought-of response and ignore the rest. I said other things as well, concrete things.

Modifié par Moon Elf13, 23 mai 2011 - 07:19 .

[Pasquale1234]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

For example Liliana was a sister in the Lotherine Chantry and Hawke and family are from Lotherine.  If we had an origin story prior to running from the darkspawn at the start of the game Hawke could have met Lilianna himself and had a relationship with her that is relavent to Hawke's story and not the Warden's.  She may have been known as the "crazy lady who thinks she talks to the maker" or she could have been a close friend of the Hawke family, making sure they had food and clothing when times are tough.  Seeing these characters from Hawke`s perspective (which would be radically different from the Warden`s) would have added to Hawke's story as well as adding something to the character from Origins.  As it stands these cameos were just filler and did nothing for the story. Jast having her in there and saying "ZOMG it's THE Liliana who helped the warden stop the blight!" adds nothing to Hawke's story nor the character of Liliana. This is very much the same as Isabella's introduction to you included her saying that she ****ed the Warden didn't add anything (I mean come on, it made her out to be a groupie) and Allister's appearance didn't add anything.  

I would agree that a Lothering connection might have been nice, but it is also implausible.  The Hawke family of apostates would intentionally avoid anything having to do with the Chantry, including the local lay sisters.  Aveline might have known Leliana, though.

One of the other things that really got my attention RE the King Alistair cameo was his mention that the Hero of Fereldan was in Denerim at that time.  It gave me the impression that Alistair may be seeking support from the protagonists of both games.

It also means that the Warden's whereabouts were known at least up until then.  Hmm....

[macrocarl]

Yeah I like that we got a sense people knew where the Warden was at that point. Mr. Gaider I really dug the King Allistair and funny Hawke dialog. Thought it was real snappy and pretty damn funny.

[hoorayforicecream]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

Moon Elf13 wrote...
Goodness! So much whining and complaining.

If DA2 was a movie and a film critic made a comment that the cameos felt forced and added nothing to the story then it would be a prefectly legitimate complaint, but when a gamer says the same about a story in a game they are just a nerdy, whiny gamer.  I am always amazed by how many gamers themselves love to perpetuate that steriotype. 

Not all film critics are equal either though. Roger Ebert, for example, was the first film critic to ever win a Pulitzer Prize for criticism. His criticism tends to have more weight than, say, a friend of mine who only watches childrens' movies with her kids.

This isn't to say that my friend who only watches childrens' movies can't have legitimate complaints, but there's still a difference in credibility between her opinion and Ebert's.

[Bryy_Miller]

You know.
I can understand people upset over Merrill looking different, because she does (although not by a lot).

But Zevran and Alistair look exactly the same. Do people want the models from Origins imported into the game?

[Hatchetman77]

Moon Elf13 wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

Moon Elf13 wrote...
Goodness! So much whining and complaining.

If DA2 was a movie and a film critic made a comment that the cameos felt forced and added nothing to the story then it would be a prefectly legitimate complaint, but when a gamer says the same about a story in a game they are just a nerdy, whiny gamer.  I am always amazed by how many gamers themselves love to perpetuate that steriotype. 

I was not perpetuating any steriotype. Look at the thread more in depth and you will understand what I meant. Some comments were borderline vicious. There should be some lines and ettiquete. Saying that a game designer, who put much work into something, was high or drunk when they designed something is just wrong. So, Hatchetman77, when I said "whining and complaining", I was being too kind and greatly understated things. I don't consider gamers who make legitimate complaints whiners, as long as they stay tactful. Your arguements about Leliana, for example, were very well put and remained civil. And please, if you are going to comment on something I said, don't use just what suits your little thought-of response and ignore the rest. I said other things as well, concrete things.

Your post was about your perception that people were whining and I picked a single sentence that best gave the thesis of your post.  Me just using that single sentence does not misinterpret the point of your post and it does not twist your post into meaning something it does not.  Picking that single sentence focused the discussion and it didn't change the meaning of what you wrote.  You believe that many people in this thread are whining and that belief is the basis for your post.  I was responding to that belief.  I was going to point out that modding does not help console players and console players are the majority of the market but that had no bearing on the point I was trying to make so I didn't comment on that.

In my opinion there were serious quality control problems with this game and people are upset.  A lot of people, myself included, have the perception that lack of effort is the main culpurate in these issues.   Many people that are upset may not be the most articulate people in the world, however their opinions still do matter.  I agree that saying that people were drunk or stoned when they made this game is not cool, but that does not mean that their anger about the game is "whining" because they can't express themselves properly.  Many people do nitpick at this game, and those same issues that they nitpick on would probably have been completly ignored in Origins.  What that says is that for some reason people had a love for Origins that they don't for DA2, where they would let serious issues slide in Origins but not in DA2.  I think that's because it can be seen that a lot of work and craftmanship was put into Origins and that same level of craftmanship was absent in DA2.  Origins was about being the best game it could be and the flaws were mostly forgiven.  DA2 was about meeting the minimum requirements on a tight schedule.  The nitpicking at the small isssues, while giving no insight into the real flaws of the game, do illustrate that whatever it was that people loved about Origins was absent in DA2.

In interviews with the devs about DA2 I constantly see comments like "our audience didn't understand what we were trying to do" or "you know what the gaming community is like".  This would not fly in any other medium.  In movies, only guys like Uwe Boll blame their audience for their failures.  In the gaming industry you can just say things like that and get away with it due to the reputation that gamers have of being whiny nerds that live in their parent's basement and live a life of forced celebacy.  In fact many other gamers will often join in the fun bashing other gamers when people try to complain about a game.  Whenever anyone makes blanket statements about "whining" perpetuates this steriotype.  If you want to quote a specific post and point out the flaws in their logic then go for it.  Dismissing a large number of posters as whiners is not constructive and plays into that negative gamer perception.

Some people hate this game because they hate it.  Some people hate this game because it gives them an excuse to troll.  Some people like the game because they like it.  Some people like the game because they don't want to get nerd stink on them and be painted with the same brush as the "haters".  Some people "whine" because they can't pinpoint exactly what they hate about the game, but they just hate it and picking one thing that they hate is as good as another.  Some people "whine" just because.  Making blanket statements about all the whining and complaining doesn`t help anyone.  Telling people who play on consoles to go get mods also doesn't help anyone.  I'm all for posters questioning specific posts on the merits of that individual post.  I hate any blanket statements about people who post in a thread, especially when those blanket statements contain common negative steriotypes.                           

   

Modifié par Hatchetman77, 23 mai 2011 - 10:07 .

[Hatchetman77]

Pasquale1234 wrote...
I would agree that a Lothering connection might have been nice, but it is also implausible.  The Hawke family of apostates would intentionally avoid anything having to do with the Chantry, including the local lay sisters.  Aveline might have known Leliana, though.

The specific circumstance is not the point, the basic idea that the returning DA:O cameos should and could have been integrated into the story and have a different significance to Hawke than they do to the Warden.  But again, taking your example,  if Leliana was helping the family despite knowing they were apostates because she also knows they are good people then it would add something to the character of Leliana (she was in favor of releasing Jowan from the dungeon in Redcliff so we know that it is something her character would conceivably do).  It also makes Leliana's relationship different to Hawke than to the Warden, so when they meet in the chantry it can be about them meeting again after all that time and seeing how each other has changed instead of "you're friends of the Warden who I've never met and has nothing to do with this game".     

[Hatchetman77]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

Moon Elf13 wrote...
Goodness! So much whining and complaining.

If DA2 was a movie and a film critic made a comment that the cameos felt forced and added nothing to the story then it would be a prefectly legitimate complaint, but when a gamer says the same about a story in a game they are just a nerdy, whiny gamer.  I am always amazed by how many gamers themselves love to perpetuate that steriotype. 

Not all film critics are equal either though. Roger Ebert, for example, was the first film critic to ever win a Pulitzer Prize for criticism. His criticism tends to have more weight than, say, a friend of mine who only watches childrens' movies with her kids.

This isn't to say that my friend who only watches childrens' movies can't have legitimate complaints, but there's still a difference in credibility between her opinion and Ebert's.

I really don't know what you're trying to say and how it relates to my post.  A legitamate complaint is independent of the person saying it.  If I say a movie was boring, that is a legitamate complaint as long as I can justify why I found it boring.  If Roger Ebert says "Citizen Kane really should have had more Three Stooges type physical comedy in it", that is not a legitimate complaint despite Roger Ebert saying it unless he can come up with a REALLY good reason as to how the addition of the physical humor would add to the movie.  

A person's reputation doesn't affect how correct their statement is, it effects how likely other people are to accept their statement as correct. 

Modifié par Hatchetman77, 23 mai 2011 - 10:55 .

[LobselVith8]

David Gaider wrote...

Wow.

Tough, ****y crowd.  

I'm fairly certain Hawke said the same thing when Meredith demanded that he aid her with the Right of Annulment, and leaving the rapist templars and insane mages behind wasn't an option.

Couldn't there be characters who didn't act like they had a lobotomy? We had Hawke ignoring evidence that someone was aiding Quentin (I guess wearing silk robes was more important than investigating his mother's death), Orsino became a Harvester because... why exactly? ... and Meredith became possessed by the Soul Calibur sword while acting like a Super-Saiyan. The smartest thing that happens throughout the story is that Hawke leaves Kirkwall.

Can Hawke be allowed to act intelligently in the DLC? Can he be proactive? Can there be characters who also act intelligently instead of making people wonder why they're holding the Idiot Ball?

David Gaider wrote...

Beerfish wrote...
A TON of fereldans went to kirkwall and he is checking up on his people hoping they will return. There are many reasons he could be there. Use your friggin imaginations, this is an rpg, it's all about you deciding why things happen.

Or it could have been that he was hoping to find an ally in Kirkwall, like he said.

It seems King Alistair is trying to fulfill the Magi boon for the mages outside of the Kirkwall Circle, given that he's sheltering mages from the templars and talks about how he can only do things for mages outside of the Circle.

[hoorayforicecream]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

I really don't know what you're trying to say and how it relates to my post.  

Simple. You said this:

If DA2 was a movie and a film critic made a comment that the cameos felt forced and added nothing to the story then it would be a prefectly legitimate complaint, but when a gamer says the same about a story in a game they are just a nerdy, whiny gamer.  

I was saying that a random gamer has less credibility than a legitimate film critic, while you imply that their opinions hold equal weight. Criticisms of the game are all opinions. Whether they are legitimate is entirely dependent on whether other people share your opinion. Some folks, like Ebert, are recognized for their opinions often holding weight. He's earned it over the years. Random gamer has not.

A legitamate complaint is independent of the person saying it.  If I say a movie was boring, that is a legitamate complaint as long as I can justify why I found it boring.  If Roger Ebert says "Citizen Kane really should have had more Three Stooges type physical comedy in it", that is not a legitimate complaint despite Roger Ebert saying it unless he can come up with a REALLY good reason as to how the addition of the physical humor would add to the movie.  

But Roger Ebert is much less likely to say that Citizen Kane should have slapstick in it, because he is well known for his in-depth knowledge of cinema and cinematic techniques. On the contrary, there are lots of gamers out there right now screaming for blood because The Witcher 2 got a 6/10 at Destructoid, despite the fact Jim Sterling gave several legitimate reasons for not liking the game. The reason that many folks view many random gamers as nerdy whiny gamers is because many of them act like nerdy whiny gamers. 

A person's reputation doesn't affect how correct their statement is, it effects how likely other people are to accept their statement as correct. 

This is only true when you're talking about facts. It gets significantly more murky when you are talking about opinions, due to the subjective nature of opinions.

[Alex Kershaw]

I'm all for cameos, and I thought the Alistair one was good (until he completely ignored my Witch Hunt import and his comments made no sense). True - they could have added a bit more story to why he was there but that would be ruining the spirit of DAII, would it not?

Of course, Alistair's cameo looked terrible. Gaider tries to make us feel guilty for saying it but it's true. As consumers, it really isn't anything to do with us what system they use to make faces or how hard the employee tried or what not - returning characters in games sequels should not look considerably worse than in the original game, and there's nothing more to it than that. If the system doesn't work, change it.

Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 23 mai 2011 - 11:30 .

[tehprincessJ]

I thought the cameos with Alistair were cool (although it would be nice if they'd fix the bug so he knows if he romanced my Warden). Aside from that terribly obvious "swooping is bad" remark he makes as King. Eesh.

[SkittlesKat96]

I thought Alistair looked fine (trust me, a lot of games change characters because of engine tweaks and customizations and Alistair's slight slight changes were hardly bad at all)

And I thought that part of the game was good, wasn't he looking for an ally and he was on Fereldan business about Fereldan refugees and stuff? Maybe he was doing diplomatic things in the Free Marshes too?

Why do people have to question such small things? Seriously I could tear apart Mass Effect's plot if I wanted cause Mass Effect has tons of plotholes too but I don't care

[Augustei]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

For example Liliana was a sister in the Lotherine Chantry and Hawke and family are from Lotherine.  If we had an origin story prior to running from the darkspawn at the start of the game Hawke could have met Lilianna himself and had a relationship with her that is relavent to Hawke's story and not the Warden's.  She may have been known as the "crazy lady who thinks she talks to the maker" or she could have been a close friend of the Hawke family, making sure they had food and clothing when times are tough.  Seeing these characters from Hawke`s perspective (which would be radically different from the Warden`s) would have added to Hawke's story as well as adding something to the character from Origins.  As it stands these cameos were just filler and did nothing for the story. Jast having her in there and saying "ZOMG it's THE Liliana who helped the warden stop the blight!" adds nothing to Hawke's story nor the character of Liliana. This is very much the same as Isabella's introduction to you included her saying that she ****ed the Warden didn't add anything (I mean come on, it made her out to be a groupie) and Allister's appearance didn't add anything.  

I would agree that a Lothering connection might have been nice, but it is also implausible.  The Hawke family of apostates would intentionally avoid anything having to do with the Chantry, including the local lay sisters.  Aveline might have known Leliana, though.

One of the other things that really got my attention RE the King Alistair cameo was his mention that the Hero of Fereldan was in Denerim at that time.  It gave me the impression that Alistair may be seeking support from the protagonists of both games.

It also means that the Warden's whereabouts were known at least up until then.  Hmm....

They would avoid all things Templar.. Yet they go to Kirkwall? Lol these hawkes are geniuses. A Lothering origin would have been awesome though =D

macrocarl wrote...

Yeah I like that we got a sense people knew where the Warden was at that point.

Really? I hated that.. Since it messed up the timeline bad.

Bryy_Miller wrote...

You know.
I can understand people upset over Merrill looking different, because she does (although not by a lot).

But Zevran and Alistair look exactly the same. Do people want the models from Origins imported into the game?

I dont like the new elven design so yes, I would like the models from origins imported into the game and the original elven design to still be used =P

Lobselvith8 wrote...
I'm fairly certain Hawke said the same thing when Meredith demanded that
he aid her with the Right of Annulment, and leaving the rapist templars
and insane mages behind wasn't an option.

Couldn't there be
characters who didn't act like they had a lobotomy? We had Hawke
ignoring evidence that someone was aiding Quentin (I guess wearing silk
robes was more important than investigating his mother's death), Orsino
became a Harvester because... why exactly? ... and Meredith became
possessed by the Soul Calibur sword while acting like a Super-Saiyan.
The smartest thing that happens throughout the story is that Hawke
leaves Kirkwall.

Unless it was a hawke who planned on siding with the templars anyway.

Lobselvith8 wrote...
It seems King Alistair is trying to fulfill the Magi boon for the mages
outside of the Kirkwall Circle, given that he's sheltering mages from
the templars and talks about how he can only do things for mages outside
of the Circle.

I dont think thats  it, since the mages meredith mentioned fled to fereldan so they weren't in Kirkwall, While playing today I did hear someone in Darktown say he came to kirkwall to let all the Fereldans know they are welcome home..
And Rivaled Aveline does say he informed all officers their titles / positions are reinstated, also something a messenger or ambassador could have done though.. Nothing really explains why he wanted to talk to the champion though...

[Jewelisms]

I was happy to see King Alistair. My Warden always romanced Alistair and I missed him. I did think, however, that Steve Valentine's delivery of the "swooping is bad" line really missed the mark. Also, in the DA:O game I imported where my warden married Alistair..when King Alistair referred to her as "the old ball and chain", it irked me (as it does in real life), and even though he did say it in a jokey manner, I couldn't help but think "ouch". Overall, though, I really liked his cameo.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

I thought Alistair looked fine (trust me, a lot of games change characters because of engine tweaks and customizations and Alistair's slight slight changes were hardly bad at all)

And I thought that part of the game was good, wasn't he looking for an ally and he was on Fereldan business about Fereldan refugees and stuff? Maybe he was doing diplomatic things in the Free Marshes too?

Why do people have to question such small things? Seriously I could tear apart Mass Effect's plot if I wanted cause Mass Effect has tons of plotholes too but I don't care

Since you only have DA2 registered, trust those of us who own the original game when we say that Alistair, Teagan, and Zevran looked terrible from how they looked in the original.  The tweeks to the new engine didn't alter or effect the other returning characters as bad.

It was obvious to me they didn't take the time to tweek Alistair's appearance as they did with: Leliana, Nathaniel Howe, and Deliah Howe.  Even Anders doesn't look the same.  Isabela,  Flemeth, and Ser Cullen have been totally revamped and they look fantastic.

All of the returning characters from DAO into DA2 look great except for Alistair, Teagan, and Zevran.  So there is no excuse for their appearance to look as bad as they do. On Alistair, the only thing they got right was his hair.  Even Zevran's hair is darker in color.   Leliana looked the best out of all of them.  She looked younger and her hair is also darker from Origins. She was also older in DAO than the warden and Alistair.  So, there is no excuse for Alistair, Zevran, and Teagan to look like they do in the new game. 

The explanation that I can offer since the developers haven't offered up an explanation to their lackluster appearance could be plot driven.  In Alistair's case since he is a Grey Warden and due to the taint.  For Zevran and Teagan there is no excuse.   It's also obvious to me that they ran out of time to properly work on these returning characters, or whoever was assigned to do their imports into the new engine didn't bother to take the time to do a comparsion and get the returning characters as close to their original appearance.   

The fact remains whoever did the import on Alistair, Zevran, and Teagan did a ****** poor job on these characters.  So the idea that tweeks from the new engine just doesn't hold water when you see what a great job was done on the other returning characters.  It was ****** poor work.  The developers can like it or lump it.  This is a well known fact.  The fanbase is calling them out on their shoddy work. 

I appreciate the return of old characters and love seeing them, I don't except them to look worse.  I'm paying my money to see them - to see a returning character look worse without an explanation is lame.

[Wulfram]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

The fact remains whoever did the import on Alistair, Zevran, and Teagan did a ****** poor job on these characters.  So the idea that tweeks from the new engine just doesn't hold water when you see what a great job was done on the other returning characters.  It was ****** poor work.  The developers can like it or lump it.  This is a well known fact.  The fanbase is calling them out on their shoddy work. 

Some characters are easier to recreate than others.  I've made a half-decent Leliana accidentally in the character creator, but Alistair is tough - in particular his nose can't really be done justice to. 

When I look at the Alistair "fixes" on Dragon Age Nexus, many of them look less ugly but they also look less faithful to his Origins look.

[88mphSlayer]

because cameos and letters are the new "divergent storytelling" from bioware

[Foolsfolly]

Since you only have DA2 registered, trust those of us who own the original game when we say that Alistair, Teagan, and Zevran looked terrible from how they looked in the original. The tweeks to the new engine didn't alter or effect the other returning characters as bad.

Zev looks fine. Not great, not exactly like he used to, but he looks fine. It's a mix between what he is and the new design for the elves.

Alistair's head needs a little less cheek. And his hair style (front styled up) looked fine in DA:O but a little wonky in DA2 (this is true for Hawke wearing it too).

But Teagan? Teagan looks nothing like he did in the first one. His hair's a different color, his personality is jokey, and I honestly would have thought he was just a new adviser to the King had Alistair not introduced him as his uncle...sort of.

Female characters from Origins seemed to fair better. Isabela and Flemeth look completely different but they look fantastic! Liliana looks great and is easily recognizable (I knew who it was without her opening her mouth or introducing herself, something I wouldn't be able to do with Teagan).

So to summarize, the characters are fine. Ali's wonky face needs some work but he looks well enough. Nathaniel Howe looked great. The ladies look great. Teagan looks nothing like Teagan and sounds nothing like Teagan, he fared the worst.

I will also just quickly say, Alistair is wonderfully written. His cameo made me smile, laugh, and then wish like hell he was a part of my team.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Wulfram wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

The fact remains whoever did the import on Alistair, Zevran, and Teagan did a ****** poor job on these characters.  So the idea that tweeks from the new engine just doesn't hold water when you see what a great job was done on the other returning characters.  It was ****** poor work.  The developers can like it or lump it.  This is a well known fact.  The fanbase is calling them out on their shoddy work. 

Some characters are easier to recreate than others.  I've made a half-decent Leliana accidentally in the character creator, but Alistair is tough - in particular his nose can't really be done justice to. 

When I look at the Alistair "fixes" on Dragon Age Nexus, many of them look less ugly but they also look less faithful to his Origins look.

I understand what you're saying.  I disagree however, due to the fact the developers would have had notes on how they created each character, they are also the ones who buildt the engine and therefore they know how to tweek it better than a novice user who uses the toolset.  They buildt it they know the system better than anyone and their creations of the new: Leliana, Flemeth, Ser Cullen, Nathaniel, Deliah Howe, and Isabela show otherwise.  They just didn't take the time or they ran out of time to work on the characters properly which shows a rushed product. Also in Zevran's case with the change in the elf design might apply to him which would be an explanation for his new look.  Varric is the best looking dwarf out of both games in my opinion. 

With Alistair and Teagan there is still no excuse.  Ser Cullen in my opinion is what Alistair really should look like in the new game.  Ser Cullen looks closer to Alistair in DAO.  Once again the only explanation on Alistair could be due to what the taint is doing to him and that would be plot driven for him to not look the same and  this could be their reason on him looking like he does in DA2.  Another plot possibility would be Alistair as monarch not training everyday as a warrior anymore. He looks just as bad being a warden in DA2 and not the monarch.  It has to plot driven and due to the taint is the only explanation that I can come up with if he was designed like that on purpose.   All of the returning characters look great except Alistiar, Teagan, and Zevran.  I'm on the fence with Anders new look.

[_Aine_]

Cullen looks better than fine. Much,much better than fine.

Teagan and Alistair... well, I knew who they were supposed to be. Attractive? Not really, but recognizable, certainly.

Zevran.....

I console myself by saying he was simply difficult to create without losing the new-elf appearance. Still, that was the one where I really did silently sob a little inside. Of course, Alistair was a drunk in mine - that kind of damage to your liver does have its effects on your appearance.

Still, I recognized him. They were fun to find in my game and I appreciated the work they did to include some cameos for the old fans.

Anders new look....well, I changed it often, then went back to the new look with the old hair. It suited the new anders fine.

Modifié par shantisands, 24 mai 2011 - 05:53 .

[Foolsfolly]

88mphSlayer wrote...

because cameos and letters are the new "divergent storytelling" from bioware

Unfair.

The games have multiple NPCs that talk to each other that the PC can overhear, in-game novels, and history books.

Sure, there's not that many optional objectives and especially the second game forced you along a single quest path but there is divergent storytelling no divergent gameplay.