169 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

I'm not entirely sure why you dislike it. The impression I am getting is you don't understand why Geralt and Triss may have romantic feelings for each other. Is that right? I would agree with you for the first scene of the game, but not so much the garden scene. Geralts feelings towards Triss are made clear dozens of times (in TW2) before they get down to business there.

[Rockpopple]

I explained it as plainly as I can - I'm not going to go into it any further.

In any case, who cares? It's just one man's opinion - whoop-de-do.

[Realmzmaster]

People want more realism in romance (or sex) scenes in a fantasy game. Yet the same gamers do not want to be bother with making sure their character eat, drink and sleep. They have no problem with their character wearing plate armor in extremely cold or hot weather and suffering no ill effects. I assume we must be talking about subjective realism.
Gamers appear to want romances to have sex in them because it makes it more mature. Yet the characters in the Witcher never pick up an STD. I give DA2 props that Isabella actually catches STDs and several of the NPCs are seen coming to Anders clinic with this problem.
I thought it would have been interesting to see Hawke catch one (maybe cheating with Isabella) while in a relationship with Anders. I would have loved that explanation.
That would be realistic!

[Malanek]

Realmzmaster wrote...
Yet the characters in the Witcher never pick up an STD.

Witchers are actually immune to diseases. They are also barren. That is supposed to be one reason women like flings with them.

[Realmzmaster]

Malanek999 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
Yet the characters in the Witcher never pick up an STD.

Witchers are actually immune to diseases. They are also barren. That is supposed to be one reason women like flings with them.

I know the witchers are immune, it does not mean they cannot be carriers. Typroid Mary was immune to the diease (having been born with the bacteria), but she passed it on to many.
Just as some people can carry HIV and suffer no ill effects, but can transmit the virus to others who can develop AIDS.

[Malanek]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
Yet the characters in the Witcher never pick up an STD.

Witchers are actually immune to diseases. They are also barren. That is supposed to be one reason women like flings with them.

I know the witchers are immune, it does not mean they cannot be carriers. Typroid Mary was immune to the diease (having been born with the bacteria), but she passed it on to many.
Just as some people can carry HIV and suffer no ill effects, but can transmit the virus to others who can develop AIDS.

I believe (I'm not an expert on the lore) that they are immune due to their altered biology actually destroying the pathogens rather than being carriers simply not showing symptoms.

[MassFrost]

Malanek999 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
Yet the characters in the Witcher never pick up an STD.

Witchers are actually immune to diseases. They are also barren. That is supposed to be one reason women like flings with them.

I know the witchers are immune, it does not mean they cannot be carriers. Typroid Mary was immune to the diease (having been born with the bacteria), but she passed it on to many.
Just as some people can carry HIV and suffer no ill effects, but can transmit the virus to others who can develop AIDS.

I believe (I'm not an expert on the lore) that they are immune due to their altered biology actually destroying the pathogens rather than being carriers simply not showing symptoms.

I think that's correct. If I remember right I think it's somewhat explained in the first one when Geralt is trying to gain entry to the hospital with all the plague victims, him explaining that he can't carry the disease.

[Realmzmaster]

MassFrost wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
Yet the characters in the Witcher never pick up an STD.

Witchers are actually immune to diseases. They are also barren. That is supposed to be one reason women like flings with them.

I know the witchers are immune, it does not mean they cannot be carriers. Typroid Mary was immune to the diease (having been born with the bacteria), but she passed it on to many.
Just as some people can carry HIV and suffer no ill effects, but can transmit the virus to others who can develop AIDS.

I believe (I'm not an expert on the lore) that they are immune due to their altered biology actually destroying the pathogens rather than being carriers simply not showing symptoms.

I think that's correct. If I remember right I think it's somewhat explained in the first one when Geralt is trying to gain entry to the hospital with all the plague victims, him explaining that he can't carry the disease.

No, Just finished Witcher 1. He says he is immune, not that he cannot carry the disease. But I assume you may be right in the implication.

[Rann]

Rockpopple wrote...

 Nudity is what pissed off Fox News.

One (minor) nitpick in this otherwise fascinating discussion:  I rather think Fox News was delighted, not "pissed off."  It's exactly the sort of fodder that their viewers will get shocked about (or will pretend to be shocked about), regardless of whether or not those who run Fox News throught of it, and it generates rating.  Given some of the stuff on Fox broadcasting (or the various other channels that they own), even during prime time, it's clear that they're not above titillation. 

In other words, they don't care what's in the game, whether it's a casual nipple shot or a full-on group orgy.  They'll happily pick on any violation of our culture's ill-defined code of ethics simply because it produces ratings and maybe gets some politicians grumpy.  (Not that the politicians necessarily care, either, but it's good publicity for them, too.)  It's the same thing that drove the fear around D&D in the 70's (I actually had an trigonometry teacher pull me aside and discuss my impending descent to the dark side if I continued to DM games, based on some ill-researched article she'd read).

Personally, I liked the romance scenes in DA2 better than DA:O.  I don't care about nudity one way or the other in games-- fade to black works fine for me, but also I thought the semi-nude picture someone posted from the Witcher game (which I haven't played) earlier in this thread to be charming and inoffensive.  I suppose that it's hard for me to get too excited about computer-generated nude  images of impossibly-proportioned people, though I certainly agree that YMMV.  (I do find it disconcerting when a character takes off clothing to reveal undergarments that clearly weren't there before, a la the DA:O scenes -- fade to black would certainly be preferable to that!

Of course, no romance scene could be more disconcerting than the one on the DA:O blooper reel, involving the darkspawn... that definitely should be avoided no matter what... 

[MassFrost]

Realmzmaster wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
Yet the characters in the Witcher never pick up an STD.

Witchers are actually immune to diseases. They are also barren. That is supposed to be one reason women like flings with them.

I know the witchers are immune, it does not mean they cannot be carriers. Typroid Mary was immune to the diease (having been born with the bacteria), but she passed it on to many.
Just as some people can carry HIV and suffer no ill effects, but can transmit the virus to others who can develop AIDS.

I believe (I'm not an expert on the lore) that they are immune due to their altered biology actually destroying the pathogens rather than being carriers simply not showing symptoms.

I think that's correct. If I remember right I think it's somewhat explained in the first one when Geralt is trying to gain entry to the hospital with all the plague victims, him explaining that he can't carry the disease.

No, Just finished Witcher 1. He says he is immune, not that he cannot carry the disease. But I assume you may be right in the implication.

Ah, my mistake then, it's been awhile since I played through that part.

[Daveros]

I would like more in the romance department, full stop. I want to be able to take Miranda/Tali/Garrus to dinner in the ship's mess, or take Merril to meet my Mum, or (a horrible example, I know) slap Anders around a bit because he's cheating on me and have him run off and never come back. Then Aveline could beat the crap out of me, because I'd deserve it.

I also wouldn't mind stronger love scenes, like in ME1, and nudity is always fun (but never mandatory).

[elearon1]

Rockpopple wrote...

@ Malanek - like I said, my problem is I had no context to the conversation from not playing either game. My guess is most of the context comes from playing the first game.

The context is entirely found in TW2 - there are meaningful coversations which lead up to that bath scene, some of which appear only minutes before hand. (prior a combat sequence which flows quite naturally from the scene as well)   But aside from the fact that would give away a part of the story - which I'm not going to do, because I know we have Witcher 2 players here and it is still a no spoiler forum - the lead in even once they are at the pool is still sweeter and more natural than the buildup for most sex scenes we see in games.  It was not merely "a way to waste a few seconds before the sex happened", for it was saying things even then about their characters and their relationship. 

And, sure, I recognize that people have sex just for sex - Geralt does quite a bit - but when it is between him and Triss at this point, it isn't just sex, it is making love. 

That said, sure I watch porn from time to time ... no one should be ashamed of enjoying the sexual act or becoming arroused by watching it ... that is a part of who we are as humans.  But, my post wasn't about the sex alone or even mostly ... talking about SEX in video games would be cause for a new thread, if they'd have allowed it.  But discussing the benefits, negatives, meaning, and people's response to the sex act itself in the game was not originally the focus of this thread.  If you want to change the focus to move away from talking about romance, and naturally portrayed sexual encounters, and move on to debates about the way people respond to SEX in games, then just do that and make it clear you're no longer talking about the threads previous topic.

[Paeyne]

For centuries, there has been a certain section of society that has tried to convince us that the human body is immoral or shameful.  I find the whole idea that people should feel guilty about their bodies rediculous and mildly disgusting. 

Warning Nudity:

Michelangelo's David   
Sandro Botticelli - La nascita di Venere
Laocoon and his Sons
Pierre-Auguste Renoir - The Bathers
Giorgio Zorzi - Sleeping Venus
August Rodin - The Kiss

I take issue with the moral minority that seems to want to paint natural beauty with derision.

I am not saying that nudity necessarily belongs in a video game.  I simply object to the spurious reasons for keeping it out.  There should be no reason to censor am M rated video game with material that could be commonly seen on a billboard in Times Square.

Apparently its ok to decapitate a women so long as you don't see her breasts.

How sad is that?

[Skilled Seeker]

Bioware should make romances harder to achieve. In KOTOR and JE it took a real effort to get a romance going with some characters. Since then it's been far too easy.

[elearon1]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Bioware should make romances harder to achieve. In KOTOR and JE it took a real effort to get a romance going with some characters. Since then it's been far too easy.

I think you have something there.  The simplisity of succeeding in relationships in modern games may well be making people appreciate them less.  Perhaps, if they required some actual effort, where you were faced with situations without obvious right/wrong responses, and with some give and take in the system, (you don't have to get 100% of the conversations right, but certainly 80% of them) which left the real chance for failure, people would appreciate the process as much as the outcome. 

Maybe, add to this, some people who pursue the PC and require that achieving relationship with Y will require breaking the heart of, or angering, X.  Part of chaning the relationships so they seem more natural may be not always giving the player what he or she wants on a silver platter.  (and, for those people who are terified they'd then never succeed with the girl they liked ... it would probably take a week on a forum like this before a "step by step to romancing A" thread came out ... so if you couldn't succeed on your own, someone will always be happy to help you. (I have to use threads like that on puzzles sometimes, so there's no shame on it ... or if there is, I'm as shameful as everyone else)

Lastly, perhaps different ending states for even successful relationships could be cool.  End 1 gives you a love scene, but no sense of a long term relationship blossoming from it; ending 2 gives you a love scene, but you have to saccrifice someone or something dear to you for it; ending 3 is the "happily ever after" ending. 

These things would be wonderful to see emerge in a triple A title. (and in some cases, reemerge)

[SilentK]

elearon1 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Bioware should make romances harder to achieve. In KOTOR and JE it took a real effort to get a romance going with some characters. Since then it's been far too easy.

I think you have something there.  The simplisity of succeeding in relationships in modern games may well be making people appreciate them less.  Perhaps, if they required some actual effort, where you were faced with situations without obvious right/wrong responses, and with some give and take in the system, (you don't have to get 100% of the conversations right, but certainly 80% of them) which left the real chance for failure, people would appreciate the process as much as the outcome. 

Maybe, add to this, some people who pursue the PC and require that achieving relationship with Y will require breaking the heart of, or angering, X.  Part of chaning the relationships so they seem more natural may be not always giving the player what he or she wants on a silver platter.  (and, for those people who are terified they'd then never succeed with the girl they liked ... it would probably take a week on a forum like this before a "step by step to romancing A" thread came out ... so if you couldn't succeed on your own, someone will always be happy to help you. (I have to use threads like that on puzzles sometimes, so there's no shame on it ... or if there is, I'm as shameful as everyone else)

Lastly, perhaps different ending states for even successful relationships could be cool.  End 1 gives you a love scene, but no sense of a long term relationship blossoming from it; ending 2 gives you a love scene, but you have to saccrifice someone or something dear to you for it; ending 3 is the "happily ever after" ending. 

These things would be wonderful to see emerge in a triple A title. (and in some cases, reemerge)

Hmmm... I don't think I would want this. I rather have a romance that was written to suit the LI:s char. If you romance Fenris you get to hear about it from Anders. And I must say you didn't get the romance with Fenris on a silver plater.

Spoiler *

On my first Hawke that I played blind, no info what so ever, I thought that he had really left her after Act 2 and went crying to Merrill. So I didn't finish the Fenris romance and still havent. I'm sort of saving it for the right Hawke   =)

It is very possible to try to romance Aveline in the game. The outcome of that romance is know to those who played the game.

Spoiler end*

I think that they varied the relationships pretty good in DA2. I wouldn't like it if there was only one route to take through the conversations in order to make the romance progress. It would make replays less fun. Rather that you can take different choices in conversations, and you hear different things but the relationship progresses. Hmmm... but I see what you mean in the relationship might get another ending given certain conditions. Well worth thinking about. I just wouldn't be happy with only having one route in conversations. I wonder if ME3 will have something like very different endings in regards to Shep and her/his LI. They have said that ending in the game can go in many directions. Wonder if it goes for the relationship as well. Oh well, different tread.

[Dangerfoot]

I love how the game is filled with guts exploding out of bodies but when someone suggests more intimate skin-on-skin love scenes some people go "EEEEWWWW, that's disgusting! Watch porn if you want to see that!"

If a movie did a good job of everything except for making the love scene too sterile and awkward, people would say so. Same goes for other art mediums. We would like every facet of the game to be well done. It is an M rated game, there is no real need to have fully clothed people hugging each other for 2 seconds before a fade out. They could at least bump the sex scenes up to PG-13. Right now they're sitting at PG.

[Fishy]

Geralt ...

He's a womanizer and  have sex with everything that move. So the sex scene goes well with his personalities.Bioware do RPG differently with a less pre-defined protagonist.So i can understand the less graphic sex scene in Dragon Age.

STTRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIINGGGGGG heroName ("Notyourname");  //WOWW you figured it out huh

[Huntress]

Realmzmaster wrote...

People want more realism in romance (or sex) scenes in a fantasy game. Yet the same gamers do not want to be bother with making sure their character eat, drink and sleep. They have no problem with their character wearing plate armor in extremely cold or hot weather and suffering no ill effects. I assume we must be talking about subjective realism.
Gamers appear to want romances to have sex in them because it makes it more mature. Yet the characters in the Witcher never pick up an STD. I give DA2 props that Isabella actually catches STDs and several of the NPCs are seen coming to Anders clinic with this problem.
I thought it would have been interesting to see Hawke catch one (maybe cheating with Isabella) while in a relationship with Anders. I would have loved that explanation.
That would be realistic!

ROFL I remember doing that in Return to Antara... and I remember 90% of the food had to be thrown out after few days. I don't want that back, but ty for the memories.

Is not about more sex, is about character interaction, you ask for food, water sleep, and yet something that is common like falling in love, kiss, hug is seen as eww/eww. Lol

I do think this game is trying to catter to young people, from grannies-under to fully covered ... is that realistic? lol

[Vilegrim]

Ariella wrote...

Actually I think the pullback was because of FOX news and their attack on ME's love scene, which I thought is the best one I've ever seen in a video game, bar none. And no I haven't played TW2.

TW2 will wait til it's less money, and if someone can confirm for me that Geralt can actually be loyal to Triss (sorry upon hearing sex as a reward for quests I started disliking Geralt more, if there's a way around it I'd be happier)

it's offered twice that I can think of (once each game, depending on path chosen) and can be turned down. If you go with the non-human and peasant alliance, and rescue the women from the burning building, you can find one of them later and she offers to sleep with you, but you can say no. If you side with the king, one of the NPCs offers it to you if you have taken her seriously as a fighter and defeated her in a duel (it feels more natural, you have to have talked to her before hand and not been soft on her for being a woman, but it is still not very deep), again no  need to accept. 

[Naughty Bear]

My love scene starring my right hand and myself was alot more interesting than DA2 love scenes.

[Marionetten]

Realmzmaster wrote...

People want more realism in romance (or sex) scenes in a fantasy game.

For me it has more to do with wanting them to be aesthetically pleasing. The Dragon Age II sex scenes were awful and not only because they lacked in nudity. They had boring backdrops, terrible animations and mediocre dialogue. The Witcher 2 by comparison has exquisite backdrops, smooth animations and mediocre dialogue. The nudity is just a bonus. But let's face it, it's pretty hard to do a decent sex scene without at the very least implied nudity. It's just silly to watch two fully clothed characters try to go at it.

[MonkeyLungs]

Paeyne wrote...

For centuries, there has been a certain section of society that has tried to convince us that the human body is immoral or shameful.  I find the whole idea that people should feel guilty about their bodies rediculous and mildly disgusting. 

Warning Nudity:

Michelangelo's David   
Sandro Botticelli - La nascita di Venere
Laocoon and his Sons
Pierre-Auguste Renoir - The Bathers
Giorgio Zorzi - Sleeping Venus
August Rodin - The Kiss

I take issue with the moral minority that seems to want to paint natural beauty with derision.

I am not saying that nudity necessarily belongs in a video game.  I simply object to the spurious reasons for keeping it out.  There should be no reason to censor am M rated video game with material that could be commonly seen on a billboard in Times Square.

Apparently its ok to decapitate a women so long as you don't see her breasts.

How sad is that?

3 CHEERS!

[Alex Kershaw]

I'd rather have bad scenes than nothing to be honest... And I find it odd that people think that Bioware were put off by the Fox News thing - surely it was just free promotion for their game? I'd think that a game getting promoted on national television would actually help sales.

Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 24 mai 2011 - 05:24 .

[Nerevar-as]

Suprez30 wrote...

Geralt ...

He's a womanizer and  have sex with everything that move. So the sex scene goes well with his personalities.Bioware do RPG differently with a less pre-defined protagonist.So i can understand the less graphic sex scene in Dragon Age.

STTRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIINGGGGGG heroName ("Notyourname");  //WOWW you figured it out huh

I don´t remember he cheated on Yennefer when they were in a relationship. Jaskier is much more an everything that moves than Geralt. The first game just went too far with the number of cards "available".

In DA, i´d rather they used camera angles rather both characters in underwear. ME was quite good, but Fox happened.

My favorite love scene is still from the Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, even if you didn´t see much.