183 réponses à ce sujet

[anonygoose]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Hey, the_one, I don't mean to be a jerk or single you out, but you've been around a long time and I thought you could answer this question for me.

In this thread alone, let alone all the other threads in all the other forums discussing our DLC, some folks (like you) are adamant about not supporting DLC and determined to take a stand in the hopes that your gesture will influence developers and publishers to try and find a different revenue model. That's fine, that's all well and good, and you are entirely entitled to those views.

Right beside you, another forum poster is saying "I will pay whatever BioWare wants me to pay. More, more, more!" Who do we listen to? That's the question I'd like you to answer. Which one of you, both fans whose opinions have equal weight, do we as developers and publishers listen to and cater to?

If you can cater for both, that would be great.  If you get good sales from small DLC, that enable you to go on and make larger expansions to the Dragon Age universe, then go for it.

In this instance of DLC I'm out for now.  I'll consider each offering as it comes, though.

Modifié par anonygoose, 19 novembre 2009 - 10:29 .

[ne12o]

purplesunset wrote...

I've been reading through a lot of these threads and a huge percentage of the arguements made by the people against the DLC are due to sheer ignorance of economics.

Ignorant argument against DLC: "Why does it cost $5? $7?  It's not worth that much!" 

Because it was determinede that this was a price that many people would be willing to pay. Value isn't an inherent thing. It's not a magical thing that floats around in the air. Humans are the ones who assign value when they assess how much they would be willing to spend to obtain said object.

It's like the people who complain..."why do fat athletes get paid millions, while professors who do more important work get paid much less?" The answer is...it's your fault you idiot. If you're willing to spend x amount on sports tickets, sports t-shirts, sports boots, sports drinks etc.  then you contribute to  creating the demand and assigning the value to sports which in turn translates to higher salaries for the athletes.

If people feel that a certain DLC is worth the $5 or $7 to them, then they have the right to buy it at that price.

There. Even though I am philosophically against DLC, I see no reason whatsoever to interfere with people who want to buy it and consequently  increase the value (and possibly also increase the price depending on elasticity) of future DLC's. That's the value they assign to it, and they have the right to spend their money for it.

I think you should be the one to learn economics. The "5, 7$ isn't the price many people are willing to pay", its the price determined by their research (may be wrong or right) to maximize their revenue. The thing with DLC is that maximizing revenue means maximizing profits (since marginal costs are damn near 0 for digital distribution).

[eyesofastorm]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Hey, the_one, I don't mean to be a jerk or single you out, but you've been around a long time and I thought you could answer this question for me.

In this thread alone, let alone all the other threads in all the other forums discussing our DLC, some folks (like you) are adamant about not supporting DLC and determined to take a stand in the hopes that your gesture will influence developers and publishers to try and find a different revenue model. That's fine, that's all well and good, and you are entirely entitled to those views.

Right beside you, another forum poster is saying "I will pay whatever BioWare wants me to pay. More, more, more!" Who do we listen to? That's the question I'd like you to answer. Which one of you, both fans whose opinions have equal weight, do we as developers and publishers listen to and cater to?

I'm not the one, but I'm going to answer... and that's not a fair question.  You are the producer.  Of course you should listen to the fans who will pay any price for any crap that you shovel out.  (Forgive my harsh choice of words.)  That doesn't mean that we, who feel we know better, shouldn't try to get others to think a bit more about how they spend their money.  If we can influence enough of them, then the voice of those asking you for high quality content will be strong enough that you don't have the choice to listen to one side or the other.  You know this Stan.  I'm sure you do.  And I sympathize with you, your company, and the industry... but not so much that I won't fight for the way I think it should be.

[the_one_54321]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Hey, the_one, I don't mean to be a jerk or single you out, but you've been around a long time and I thought you could answer this question for me.

In this thread alone, let alone all the other threads in all the other forums discussing our DLC, some folks (like you) are adamant about not supporting DLC and determined to take a stand in the hopes that your gesture will influence developers and publishers to try and find a different revenue model. That's fine, that's all well and good, and you are entirely entitled to those views.

Right beside you, another forum poster is saying "I will pay whatever BioWare wants me to pay. More, more, more!" Who do we listen to? That's the question I'd like you to answer. Which one of you, both fans whose opinions have equal weight, do we as developers and publishers listen to and cater to?

that is a darn good question, stan. and i honestly do not have a good answer for you. we're all in a really tough position here, because you guys are trying to stay profitable, and we are trying to keep you guys making games that we want to buy.

i have taken my stance on it. i think it's a fair stance. that other poster, and i noticed her post as well btw, (i say her because her avatar was female) and her opinion is just as valid as mine. i disagree with her. and i think she's spending her money heedlessly. but there isnt really a right or wrong in either side of it.

all i can really say is that if you guys keep making games like DA:O, i will probably keep on buying them. if you keep making DLC and charging for it, then i will keep on not buying it. if your publishing shoudl start to veer toward DLC styled releases of full games, i'll just stop buying your games all together.

[Stanley Woo]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Hey, the_one, I don't mean to be a jerk or single you out, but you've been around a long time and I thought you could answer this question for me.

In this thread alone, let alone all the other threads in all the other forums discussing our DLC, some folks (like you) are adamant about not supporting DLC and determined to take a stand in the hopes that your gesture will influence developers and publishers to try and find a different revenue model. That's fine, that's all well and good, and you are entirely entitled to those views.

Right beside you, another forum poster is saying "I will pay whatever BioWare wants me to pay. More, more, more!" Who do we listen to? That's the question I'd like you to answer. Which one of you, both fans whose opinions have equal weight, do we as developers and publishers listen to and cater to?

that is a darn good question, stan. and i honestly do not have a good answer for you. we're all in a really tough position here, because you guys are trying to stay profitable, and we are trying to keep you guys making games that we want to buy.

i have taken my stance on it. i think it's a fair stance. that other poster, and i noticed her post as well btw, (i say her because her avatar was female) and her opinion is just as valid as mine. i disagree with her. and i think she's spending her money heedlessly. but there isnt really a right or wrong in either side of it.

all i can really say is that if you guys keep making games like DA:O, i will probably keep on buying them. if you keep making DLC and charging for it, then i will keep on not buying it. if your publishing shoudl start to veer toward DLC styled releases of full games, i'll just stop buying your games all together.

That is a much fairer and reasonable response than some of your previous posts led me to expect. Thank you, I appreciate that.

[Le_Mieux]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Hey, the_one, I don't mean to be a jerk or single you out, but you've been around a long time and I thought you could answer this question for me.

In this thread alone, let alone all the other threads in all the other forums discussing our DLC, some folks (like you) are adamant about not supporting DLC and determined to take a stand in the hopes that your gesture will influence developers and publishers to try and find a different revenue model. That's fine, that's all well and good, and you are entirely entitled to those views.

Right beside you, another forum poster is saying "I will pay whatever BioWare wants me to pay. More, more, more!" Who do we listen to? That's the question I'd like you to answer. Which one of you, both fans whose opinions have equal weight, do we as developers and publishers listen to and cater to?

It's simple...you do whichever you feel will make you the most money.

If you feel you can bleed more money from DLC by charging more for less and circumventing publisher's costs...go for it.

I and people like the_one (well maybe not entirely) will not purchase these DLCs because we do not feel they are valued right.

People such as those who have more money than sense will pay through the nose for whatever you spew out and thank you for it.

Between those two, you have to decide which will make you more money.

Hey, you asked a dumb question, I gave a dumb answer.

[ne12o]

Chamucks Deluxe wrote...

I bet you anything, that for under 5 dollars they wouldn't even talk about it. They HAVE to make money. The point of business. There products kick ass, so naturally I would love for everything they sell to do well.

the "5$" the profit maximizing price. There may be profits to be made at 3$, but not max.

the_one_54321 wrote...
Wow, miserly much?  I pay $5 for
coffee and a donut, and that's only a few minutes of entertainment. 
It's less than half of what I pay when I go out to dinner or to go see
a movie.  If you're really poor or still living with your parents then
$5 might be a huge deal to you, but for anyone who's making at least
minimum wage it's not the heartwrenching ordeal it seems to be to you. 
And if $5 is such a huge chunk of your income that you can't bear to
part with it, then you should probably be studying or looking for a new
job rather than playing video games.

And what did you think a demand curve was?
Yes, the demand curve is the aggregate of people's personal demand.

What do you think Marginal Benefit or Willingness to Pay is? 
While your income may be a contributing factor to your wilingness to pay for normal goods, your assumptions are all correct.
For some hardcore 60yr old lawyer raking in 500g's a year, even if Dragon Age full game was priced at 10$,  he wouldn't buy it cause its wroth 2$ for him, since he dosnt give a rats ass about video games.

[Fishy]

the_one_54321 wrote...

makeshiftwings7 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

it's stupid. it's wasteful. it's benefit is disproportionately small to what you pay for it. i will not be one of those suckers. the whole world may come crashing down with the weight of all the other suckers out there who are more than happy to ruin the value of things because they are willing to just hand over their wallets instead of saying "no, not until you make it more worth my while," but i will not join in. i dont jump off the bridge just because everyone else is doing it. i am not the frog in the pot of slow boiling water.

Wow, miserly much?  I pay $5 for coffee and a donut, and that's only a few minutes of entertainment.  It's less than half of what I pay when I go out to dinner or to go see a movie.  If you're really poor or still living with your parents then $5 might be a huge deal to you, but for anyone who's making at least minimum wage it's not the heartwrenching ordeal it seems to be to you.  And if $5 is such a huge chunk of your income that you can't bear to part with it, then you should probably be studying or looking for a new job rather than playing video games.

way to bring flames to the party. <_<

i make plenty of money, thanks. it's not that i think $5 is a huge amount of money it's that im a smart consumer. and i manage my money well. which is a hell of a lot more than most of the people around here can likely say.

Like someone said .. People who are rich aren't  the one who spend money , but the ppl that know how to spend/save their money.

To many ppl nowaday seek instant gratification ..

[KalDurenik]

Well Stanley... my suggestion is that you do what world of goo did. Pay what you want. Lets take 1.50$ as minium and let people pay whatever they want for it. Some might even pay you more and some might pay you less. But overall i think more people will be happy with you guys. And you might sell more in quantity.

[Le_Mieux]

KalDurenik wrote...

Well Stanley... my suggestion is that you do what world of goo did. Pay what you want. Lets take 1.50$ as minium and let people pay whatever they want for it. Some might even pay you more and some might pay you less. But overall i think more people will be happy with you guys. And you might sell more in quantity.

Now that is an awesome idea.

Let people pay what they think the DLC is worth with a floor of 1$ or so and no cieling.

Odds are you'd get quite a bit more business than with a static price.

[Ub3r_]

or they could do a Team Fortress 2 model and release all DLC free?

[mysticforce42]

ne12o wrote...

Chamucks Deluxe wrote...

I bet you anything, that for under 5 dollars they wouldn't even talk about it. They HAVE to make money. The point of business. There products kick ass, so naturally I would love for everything they sell to do well.

the "5$" the profit maximizing price. There may be profits to be made at 3$, but not max.

the_one_54321 wrote...
Wow, miserly much?  I pay $5 for
coffee and a donut, and that's only a few minutes of entertainment. 
It's less than half of what I pay when I go out to dinner or to go see
a movie.  If you're really poor or still living with your parents then
$5 might be a huge deal to you, but for anyone who's making at least
minimum wage it's not the heartwrenching ordeal it seems to be to you. 
And if $5 is such a huge chunk of your income that you can't bear to
part with it, then you should probably be studying or looking for a new
job rather than playing video games.

And what did you think a demand curve was?
Yes, the demand curve is the aggregate of people's personal demand.

What do you think Marginal Benefit or Willingness to Pay is? 
While your income may be a contributing factor to your wilingness to pay for normal goods, your assumptions are all correct.
For some hardcore 60yr old lawyer raking in 500g's a year, even if Dragon Age full game was priced at 10$,  he wouldn't buy it cause its wroth 2$ for him, since he dosnt give a rats ass about video games.

I certainly hope that  60yr lawyer is making far more than 500K a year, and that he's got grandchildren.

[Fishy]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Wow, miserly much? I pay $5 for

coffee and a donut, and that's only a few minutes of entertainment.

It's less than half of what I pay when I go out to dinner or to go see

a movie. If you're really poor or still living with your parents then

$5 might be a huge deal to you, but for anyone who's making at least

minimum wage it's not the heartwrenching ordeal it seems to be to you.

And if $5 is such a huge chunk of your income that you can't bear to

part with it, then you should probably be studying or looking for a new

job rather than playing video games.



-------------



Income has nothing to do with that.

You're stupid.



You never heard of budget i guess because you're PROBABLY livint with your parents

lol..

[the_one_54321]

Stanley Woo wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Hey, the_one, I don't mean to be a jerk or single you out, but you've been around a long time and I thought you could answer this question for me.

In this thread alone, let alone all the other threads in all the other forums discussing our DLC, some folks (like you) are adamant about not supporting DLC and determined to take a stand in the hopes that your gesture will influence developers and publishers to try and find a different revenue model. That's fine, that's all well and good, and you are entirely entitled to those views.

Right beside you, another forum poster is saying "I will pay whatever BioWare wants me to pay. More, more, more!" Who do we listen to? That's the question I'd like you to answer. Which one of you, both fans whose opinions have equal weight, do we as developers and publishers listen to and cater to?

that is a darn good question, stan. and i honestly do not have a good answer for you. we're all in a really tough position here, because you guys are trying to stay profitable, and we are trying to keep you guys making games that we want to buy.

i have taken my stance on it. i think it's a fair stance. that other poster, and i noticed her post as well btw, (i say her because her avatar was female) and her opinion is just as valid as mine. i disagree with her. and i think she's spending her money heedlessly. but there isnt really a right or wrong in either side of it.

all i can really say is that if you guys keep making games like DA:O, i will probably keep on buying them. if you keep making DLC and charging for it, then i will keep on not buying it. if your publishing shoudl start to veer toward DLC styled releases of full games, i'll just stop buying your games all together.

That is a much fairer and reasonable response than some of your previous posts led me to expect. Thank you, I appreciate that.

well, you validated my point by actually being a  part of the development and directly addressing my posts. i appreciate that. it's a big deal to me, me being just one poster and customer among the crowd.

i remain adamant that DLC is not a fair business model and that's all i really can do. it comes across pretty harsh at times, i realize, but it's something that i have to stick by if i am to entertain any hope that gaming in general will not continue on the unpleasant path it has been on for the past several years. that's capitalism for you. if left unchecked this industry will end up like the music industry and then i'll have almost no respect for it at all. i hope that it never comes to that, and i hope that you all can keep on making money while not letting it come to that.

only time will tell.

but, as ive already said, so long as you keep on producing games like DA:O, i'll probably keep on buying them. i wish i had more time to play, because everything ive read so far sounds absolutely epic.

[ken52682]

All true ..... until BW decides to force that value on you by taking away player made content. x360 players don't get a camp storage chest unless they buy warden's keep.

[ZenOps]

I'll admit. I'm a sucker for these things.



Although I usually wait until there is a "gold" edition before jumping on extra content.

[the_one_54321]

ne12o wrote...

Chamucks Deluxe wrote...

I bet you anything, that for under 5 dollars they wouldn't even talk about it. They HAVE to make money. The point of business. There products kick ass, so naturally I would love for everything they sell to do well.

the "5$" the profit maximizing price. There may be profits to be made at 3$, but not max.

the_one_54321 wrote...
Wow, miserly much?  I pay $5 for
coffee and a donut, and that's only a few minutes of entertainment. 
It's less than half of what I pay when I go out to dinner or to go see
a movie.  If you're really poor or still living with your parents then
$5 might be a huge deal to you, but for anyone who's making at least
minimum wage it's not the heartwrenching ordeal it seems to be to you. 
And if $5 is such a huge chunk of your income that you can't bear to
part with it, then you should probably be studying or looking for a new
job rather than playing video games.

And what did you think a demand curve was?
Yes, the demand curve is the aggregate of people's personal demand.

What do you think Marginal Benefit or Willingness to Pay is? 
While your income may be a contributing factor to your wilingness to pay for normal goods, your assumptions are all correct.
For some hardcore 60yr old lawyer raking in 500g's a year, even if Dragon Age full game was priced at 10$,  he wouldn't buy it cause its wroth 2$ for him, since he dosnt give a rats ass about video games.

this is a missquote. i did not say that.

[Lucasian]

I'll buy it because I wish to support the developers, though admittedly, mostly because I don't want Dragon Age 2 to be a console port.

[KalDurenik]

I know some people are going to call me a idiot for suggestion what a small no name company did. But there are a few things that are expensive as hell. And what is that? Marketing and marketing. By saying they will sell DLC at a price that the person that buy it think is okey they are basicly making people write about them **** lots. And most likely more people will buy it. Some for more and some for less. Will it give more money or less then if they sold it with a static price? I dont know It could go either way. But my suggestion is still that they add a minium of like 1.50$ to make sure they dont go -. Then they can just sit back and watch 1.50$ to 20$ roll in.

[giskard44]

Interesting topic.



DLCs go hand in hand with the whole connectivity thing we see with games like Dragon Age and this website. I think its really cool and definitely makes me excited about gaming in the future. But like others I worry the actual games may be dumbed down so they can sell content that should have been in the original game as a DLC.



So far I have not see a developer do that so its not an issue that has arisen for me but should they do it in the future, you can be sure I'll express my self loudly on my site about it, naming and shaming those concerned.



For now, all DLCs i have seen with the odd exception have been good value for money and worth buying. I think DLCs have to be good value for money or people like me will stop trusting the devs that produce them and simply not buy any more dlcs they do release.



I think many reading this only by DLCs because they expect it to be good value for their money, had they had to pay £10 for an Enchanted Ring DLC, I am sure most here would never have purchased the wardens keep or the stone golen thing.

[marlowwe]

the_one_54321 wrote...
this is a missquote. i did not say that.

Ha yeah when I read that I feared we had lost a Grey Warden to the (DLC) Blight!