183 réponses à ce sujet

[Falklol]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Making the DLC must be really easy and not take any time or cost any money to merit a 5 dollar price tag.

I mean look at all the instantly amazing stuff that the community has made with the tool-kit. It's already been 2 weeks and I've played through tens of hours of dungeons and fully voiced mini-stories.

Really? Can you link to any of these? I've only seen mini-mods like the re-spec mods and so forth, haven't seen any mods that add new dungeons or voices. And where did you find them? I am currently looking at damods.com, dragonagenexus and bioware's project site.

[KalDurenik]

Well... Everyone have trouble right now... In every company its because we are in the thing where people are saving money because of bad times... I just can't remember the name of it...

[Blakes 7]

Hmmm, if dragon age downloadable content is anything like fallouts shouldn't I just wait for the downloadable content packs to be sold in one package at a retailer

Makes me think the real version will come out in 2yrs or so as a game of the year edition (if I hadn't already purchased dao)

Modifié par Blakes 7, 19 novembre 2009 - 10:58 .

[Le_Mieux]

KalDurenik wrote...

Well... Everyone have trouble right now... In every company its because we are in the thing where people are saving money because of bad times... I just can't remember the name of it...

2DBoy, makers of World of Goo.

[anonygoose]

Le_Mieux wrote...

KalDurenik wrote...

Well... Everyone have trouble right now... In every company its because we are in the thing where people are saving money because of bad times... I just can't remember the name of it...

2DBoy, makers of World of Goo.

They meant the economic downturn / recession/ depression.

[KalDurenik]

yes i know that. But it was a reply to a person that said EA is kicking people because they are doing bad. But the thing is that everyone is doing bad because people are saving money instead of spending money. Anyway...



Like i said i would love to see the "Pay what you think its worth" like world of goo did. But be sure to have a minium price of like 1.50$ so that you dont go - because of the fees. This will be free marketing (people will write about it) it will most likely send out a big sign saying "our company is cool we care about what you think" and they will most likely sell large quantitys.

[KalDurenik]

And yes i meant what anonygoose said...

[Argorre]

being a college student $5 is alot of money, and considering i would only be getting an hours worth at most... it really isnt worth it... i would be the first in line at the store if they released an expansion with 10,15, 20 + hours of gameplay for ~$30, i would feel like i was actually getting something worth while for my money...but all this uber short DLC stuff is REALLY dissheartening

[wrexingcrew]

Dalereth wrote...

Finally someone said it. It isn't a moral or philosophical debate. It's economics. Bioware can put out downloadable content that will add 16 seconds of gameplay and charge $5 for it and it still isn't about right and wrong, but consumer choice.

One of the most tiresome myths about economics is that it's a exclusively descriptive hard science.  Economics is a social science that studies human behavior - not mathematical constants - even when it is nominally descriptive, and economic analysis frequently comes packaged with all sorts of normative elements.  Supply-demand graphs and all the other basic building blocks in the field are deliberately simplistic human attempts at explaining human behavior, not immutable laws of nature.

Economics and ethics are not mutually exclusive fields, and they shouldn't be if you listen to ol' Adam Smith himself.  Reductionist microeconomics might indicate that BioWare should do one thing or the other, but that doesn't answer the question of right or wrong - maybe more importantly, the moral question might have repercussions for the bottom line.  The reason you see so many companies worrying about image and appearing to be "good corporate citizens" is because economics has evolved beyond classical ideas about marginal cost and price and the like.  Those ideas still have plenty of utility, but analyses need to take into account irrationality, and increasingly do.  Now, it makes sense for BioWare to pursue a DLC model so long as they [EDIT: finishing thoughts is usually a good idea] don't suffer any ill effects from the anti-DLC crowd, in a narrow sort of way, but...see below.

eyesofastorm wrote...

Ah, but whining and complaining in coherent, intelligent ways may
help to sway others into NOT buying the thimble sized offerings and
more quickly sway the pendulum back towards actual expansion packs and
good value for consumers. 

True.  Your purchases affect market conditions that in turn affect me.  Those that do buy DLC should be happiest about those of us who lodge complaints, since they are in effect free riders if we manage to shift or even maintain the status quo - in other words, they benefit from our efforts with no effort of their own.  On the other side, those of us that object to DLC and see it creating negative externalities are actively suffering from the effects of the DLC purchases. 

Modifié par wrexingcrew, 19 novembre 2009 - 11:32 .

[wonko33]

Argorre wrote...

being a college student $5 is alot of money, and considering i would only be getting an hours worth at most... it really isnt worth it... i would be the first in line at the store if they released an expansion with 10,15, 20 + hours of gameplay for ~$30, i would feel like i was actually getting something worth while for my money...but all this uber short DLC stuff is REALLY dissheartening

I don't understand why you find it disheartening; you think it's not worth it, you don't have enough money anyway. It doesn't add anything to the real game besides baubles.

If people don't like what's in the DLC why do they sound so mad/sad/upset about not buying them?

[eyesofastorm]

wonko33 wrote...

If people don't like what's in the DLC why do they sound so mad/sad/upset about not buying them?

Have you read this thread... there are many attempts (some of them quite good (as some of them are mine)) to answer that very question.  Wrexingcrew, directly above you, put it quite eloquently.  Have you just not read those explanations?  Do they make sense you you?

[Hobojump]

For that $5 if i am going to have fun for 1.30 / 2 hours then its totally worth it.Evn if its 1 hours its still good.I'll pay much more if i go to cinema to have fun with that much time.New armors weapons and place to kill some darkspawn are for $5 . What are you guys so mad about.Its cheap and if you dont want to buy it its gonna be your loss.A company needs to make money.Bioware is one of the rare companies that create awesome games.



We recieve a little playable game that will finish 1-2 hours for $5. Buy it or Dont Buy it , its up to you but for gods sake when there are other games that charge you $60 for a 7 hour game dont cry over something like this

[Aesira]

For making several best CRPG games ever, which gave me incredible amount of fun and still are delivering, I will forgive Bioware anything, including those crap cheap DLC.

[Cry4dawn69]

I would rather have a collection of DLC all put on to a CD that I can install if I ever lose my PC or 360. This download garbage I almost refuse to pay for. I LOVE mass effect but honestly have not picked up the ONLINE only DLC. I did however spend the extra money to rebuy Mass Effect again with the DLC on the CD. So Yes I LOVE that companies like Fallout 3 are putting out DLC on disc. I want to own the game, but worry about it in the future that I am missing stuff.

[Brian Chung]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Ub3r_ wrote...
or they could do a Team Fortress 2 model and release all DLC free?

I love getting 2 new weapons every few months or so.  Really, I do.

Indeed.  I can't recall where I read this, but the TF2 update team is very small and they often have to scrouge people from existing projects to contribute to TF2.  Or contribute on their own time when they have some to spare, which frequently isn't often.

Hence the long durations between updates.

[KalDurenik]

One cant ask them to do it for free. I still like my suggestion but ye i have kinda seen it from both sides of the river.. oh well

[Tassadarpaladin]

I don't against the idea of DLC, but I realy think bioware should do much better. The price of both WK and SP is almost the half of whole game, but how many hours do we get from them? Look at the new one, we will go to some place, kill some darkspwans and then loot a set of armor we can already get it by using toolset. I think the DLC is a kind of official MOD. Bioware make this wonderful game, they know the toolset much better than any of us. The DLC's content should be something very difficult for us to make. The price also should be more reasonable.

[Scynthe]

The only real issue I've been having with the DLC, is the lack of content. I don't want these 30min-1hour pieces of content that dont add up to much. I'm looking for more expansive DLC. The only company who seems to have done DLC right so far is Rockstar with Lost and the Damned and The Ballad of Gay Tony.



I would love to see long expansions, sequels or new campaigns entirely for this game, but if the DLC content continues to be like what we've been given already regardless of the price point, I will have to pass on them.

[wonko33]

eyesofastorm wrote...



Have you read this thread... there are many attempts (some of them quite good (as some of them are mine)) to answer that very question.  Wrexingcrew, directly above you, put it quite eloquently.  Have you just not read those explanations?  Do they make sense you you?

No I did not see her post since I was writing mine as hers came in. But still that craving that people have for things just makes them unhappy, and it also fuels much of the debate about p2p downloads, people can't afford things and they want them so bad that they justify just taking them. I think marketing has pushed consumerism so far that it is starting to backlash, after convincing people these things are indispensable, people just steal what they can't afford.

Here sometimes,  it takes a different side, we get all these people that try to convince the company that these things should be free. These story  DLCs have required them to hire voice actors/programmers/testers etc, why should they give that for free? The other option is for them to pull these resources from DAO and have them work on the next game, do we want that? 

I am not going to buy most of the DLC, I will do like I did for Oblivion, Fallout 3 and other games, do your research (there will tons of information here right after they come out) and decide if you want it or not

[cheeseslayersmu]

vizering wrote...

Renting a movie costs me 5 bucks... a beer costs me 5 bucks including tip and I can down a beer in less than a minute. Arcades sometimes costs 1 buck for 1 race car race.

DLC will effectively eliminate pirating when software developers realize they can sell the prologue to the game for 10 bucks and then unlock the game for another 40-50 and then add more DLC.

This is the direction gaming is heading... think about it.

Anybody who pirates, has net access and can thus download the game and dlc. This game-content downloading method is just evolution of video game entertainment.

Really? [Removed inappropriate content]

While I'm a fan of dlc, I really feel like they're milking us for all we're worth with this dlc. I enjoy dlc but it does seem like a high price to me (for 1 hour dlc).

Note: I'm not endorsing piracy or anything like that. Just showing how terrible his point is.




EDIT: Inappropriate content removed by Moderator.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 20 novembre 2009 - 12:29 .

[Mark5477]

I dont mind the idea of DLC but honestly, I have never bought any DLC in any game because I have not seen any DLC that is worth the price tag attached to it. Dont misunderstand, $5 is not a big deal to me but that doesn't mean I am willing to cough up that money for no reason. Justifying a $5 price by stating a hobo can afford it is why our country is in shambles right now. Apparently we can afford a $5 DLC but we have 10% unemployment and about 20% of all homes bought from 2004-2008 are in foreclosure. But hey its ok to spend $5 on DLC because a hobo can afford it... oh the irony. A fool and their money will soon be parted. Hopefully that money ends up in my pocket.

[makeshiftwings7]

Suprez30 wrote...
Like someone said .. People who are rich aren't  the one who spend money , but the ppl that know how to spend/save their money.

To many ppl nowaday seek instant gratification ..

So what?  I like instant gratification.  I don't want to boycott Bioware until they make me a 600-hour game for $2.  I want Shale in my party, and $5 is peanuts.


...Actually I think a jar of peanuts is more like $7, so it might be cheaper.

[makeshiftwings7]

True.  Your purchases affect market conditions that in turn affect me.  Those that do buy DLC should be happiest about those of us who lodge complaints, since they are in effect free riders if we manage to shift or even maintain the status quo - in other words, they benefit from our efforts with no effort of their own.  On the other side, those of us that object to DLC and see it creating negative externalities are actively suffering from the effects of the DLC purchases. 

However, if you don't shift the status quo, and instead the only effect that boycotting DLC has is that it reduces Bioware's DLC income to the point that EA doesn't think it's worth funding any more DLC (because their other games are returning more profits for less funding), then you are hurting the pro-DLC people.

Also, there's another huge economic problem that I don't think has been addressed in this thread yet: piracy.  Releasing a game on PC is already hugely less profitable than releasing it on a console.  DLC (especially Day One DLC) and other benefits that are hard to get without a verified online copy of the game help a huge amount in lowering the amount of people that pirate the game.  I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people complaining in these very threads about how the DLC should have been included in the main game are actually playing pirated copies.  In fact, I would go so far to say that if it weren't for DLC, no company would make a single player offline PC game at all; there's just no way to turn a profit with the amount of piracy these days.

[TomBrokaw]

If DLC deserves to die it will die. If people buy it and enough people don't feel as if they get enough value then people will stop buying it. It will die. If DLC detracts from the quality of games proper and value suffers there as well, people will stop buying video games and this industry will die. It's not oil, it won't survive without providing appropriate value. And the market determines appropriate value, not some nerd in his mom's basement (well he determines his minute portion).



In any case then, justice will be brought to bear. If you think DLC deserves to die, then just wait, it will. If it doesn't then you are WRONG.



There is no need to whine.



Bottom line your understanding of economics is infantile at best.

[SpacelordMofo]

I'd rather pay $5-$7 periodically for additional content to a game I like than risk spending $50 for a game I may not like.



Is 5-7 dollars really that much money to people? That's about what a combo meal at McDonald's costs. If you are too young to have a job ask mommy and daddy for a raise in your allowance. If you are old enough to have a job.... McDonald's is always hiring.