390 réponses à ce sujet

[Jerrybnsn]

Not only do I think that user scores are just as valid as the professional game reviewer's score, I adjust the score that the user score will always be somewhat lower than the professional score because the user has a financial cost to his gaming experience. Having to pay $60 for a game + tax already puts the game to a higher standard in the user's eyes than say that of a writer who is handed the game by his company for review purposes.

The worst the game is the more this cost affects the user's score to be lower.

[Beerfish]

People will almost always take their preconceived notion of a game and base future reviews on those preconceived notions.

The fact that DA2 had enough flaws for some loyal fans to beef about it just opened the door for tons of people to act in a feeding frenzy manner to blast it in all means possible. As others have said, no problem in preferring one game over another but much cred goes out the window when people praise every thing about one game and blast everything about another. Worse yet is when games have design decisions that are similar and yet people blast one game for it while ignoring it in another game.

For me, I am going to have to wait on TW2 to decide if I want to give it a go. I really detested TW1 combat and though there have been supposed changes to it I still people making comments like 'you have to get used to combat', 'once you get good at combat' etc.

[Elhanan]

"Shut one's eyes tight, or open one's arms wide; either way, one's a fool"

[contextual_entity]

The amount of hyperbole that goes into those review scores is just insane. There is no way that Dragon Age 2 deserves 4.4. This is why I ignore user reviews for the most part, there simply is no objectivity involved. I think it's fair to say that most of the extreme negative Dragon Age 2 user reviews are an accurate reflection of the reviewers disappointment not a balanced weighting of the games merits and flaws.

Personally I find myself agreeing with Eurogamers reviews, if not the final scoring of the game:

The Witcher 2 - 9/10 (Excellent)
Dragon Age 2 - 7/10 (Good)

Modifié par Amitar, 04 août 2011 - 02:00 .

[MDT1]

Amitar wrote...

The amount of hyperbole that goes into those review scores is just insane. There is no way that Dragon Age 2 deserves 4.4. This is why I ignore user reviews for the most part, there simply is no objectivity involved.
Personally I find myself agreeing with Eurogamers reviews, or at very least, the final scoring of each game:

The Witcher 2 - 9/10 (Excellent)
Dragon Age 2 - 8/10 (Great)

The problem with user reviews is that "I don't like it" = 0 points.
So 4.4 is perhaps realy to low for the overall rating but it indicates that the game has issues for many users which is ultimatly true.
Also TW2 has still a good user score though  theres a conspiracy of Biodrones that only created an account to rate DA2 with 10 and TW2 with 0. So better games still get better scores.
I don't ignore user scores, I'm just cautious with them.
Same goes with official reviews btw.
Like PC gamer that gave DA2 a higher score then TW2 because its rated by two differnt people. The TW2 reviewer actually mentiones that he would have rated DA2 even lower.

Modifié par MDT1, 26 mai 2011 - 03:36 .

[Elhanan]

MDT1 wrote...

The problem with user reviews is that "I don't like it" = 0 points.
So 4.4 is perhaps realy to low for the overall rating but it indicates that the game has issues for many users which is ultimatly true.
Also TW2 has still a good user score though  theres a conspiracy of Biodrones that only created an account to rate DA2 with 10 and TW2 with 0. So better games still get better scores.
i don't ignore user scores, I'm just cautious with them.

So when a TW2 fan does the same, are they called a Witcher Missle? And a 10 for a good game may be as invalid as a 0 is for disliked.

[ShakeZoohla]

Alright then let's face it. Review scores do matter... but only if you let them. They are a reflection of excellence, not a measurement of it. They are not objective fact, they are not ultimate truth. Don't kid yourself like that. It basically comes down to how much you trust other gamers' opinions will line up with your own. That being said, don't be scared to take a step off the bandwagon to try and see for yourself.

[MDT1]

Elhanan wrote...

So when a TW2 fan does the same, are they called a Witcher Missle? And a 10 for a good game may be as invalid as a 0 is for disliked.

Perhaps, in either way it's ridiculous to rate a game you didn't play.
And mathematically everything from 9.5 is rounded up to 10.
So I don't genrally ignore 10 as I don't generally ignore 0, as the 0 is based on hate and the hate often has valid reasons.
But yes though I don't like DA2 I know 4.4 is no fair rating, its to low.

[contextual_entity]

MDT1 wrote...
So 4.4 is perhaps realy to low for the overall rating but it indicates that the game has issues for many users which is ultimatly true.

The issue with DA2 is that for many people it's something of a disappointment and I agree it is, but if you're doing a review you have to be somewhat objective about things (I understand it's not possible to be entirely objective). Even though DA2 is rather disappointing it's still a very good game at the core.

Had it not been the sequal to Dragon Age, no-one would have had this problem with it.

Modifié par Amitar, 26 mai 2011 - 03:47 .

[Elhanan]

MDT1 wrote...

Perhaps, in either way it's ridiculous to rate a game you didn't play.
And mathematically everything from 9.5 is rounded up to 10.
So I don't genrally ignore 10 as I don't generally ignore 0, as the 0 is based on hate and the hate often has valid reasons.
But yes though I don't like DA2 I know 4.4 is no fair rating, its to low.

One can post multiple votes and reviews at Metacritic without having playedf the game? No proof of purchase?

yeah; site seems fair and objective to me....

[abaris]

Amitar wrote...

The issue with DA2 is that for many people it's something of a disappointment and I agree it is, but if you're doing a review you have to be somewhat objective about things. Even though DA2 is somewhat disappointing it's still a very good game at the core.

Had it not been the sequal to Dragon Age, no-one would have had this problem with it.

Noone would have had this problem with it?

Maybe a whole lot of people wouldn't have been interested in the first place.

As for the scores, they may be flawed. But ultimately its down to tastes. I highly dislike the monkey combat complete with gory explosions. I dislike the fact that there's no companion customisation. That's what I learned from the demo and made me not buy the whole package.

I read about non reacting NPCs and guards, another minus in my book, I looked at all the screenshots with bland textures and low detail NPCs, yet another point written off.

So if I was to rate it, I would rate it 5 at the most. Now if someone doesn't have a problem with all the above, they may rate it higher. That is a given, but why should any user bend over to give it a higher rating if there's nothing likeable in their opinion? As long as they explain what they didn't like, the review can be very enlightening. More so than the professionals, who take technical details into consideration, which don't add a monkey's to the gaming experience.

[MDT1]

Amitar wrote...

Had it not been the sequal to Dragon Age, no-one would have had this problem with it.

I would say this is a bit to optimistic, but yes, I guess most of the ranters have pre ordered it because of DAO like me or have at least played DAO.
But even the "official" score is quite low for BioWare standards.

Elhanan wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

Perhaps, in either way it's ridiculous to rate a game you didn't play.
And mathematically everything from 9.5 is rounded up to 10.
So I don't genrally ignore 10 as I don't generally ignore 0, as the 0 is based on hate and the hate often has valid reasons.
But yes though I don't like DA2 I know 4.4 is no fair rating, its to low.

One can post multiple votes and reviews at Metacritic without having playedf the game? No proof of purchase?

yeah; site seems fair and objective to me....

To be clear: I don't think metacritic ratings are objective.
I'm just sure that a somewhat intelligent human beeing knows that and thus can filter the valuable information out of the whole reviews/ratings.

Modifié par MDT1, 26 mai 2011 - 04:22 .

[Il Divo]

abaris wrote...

So if I was to rate it, I would rate it 5 at the most. Now if someone doesn't have a problem with all the above, they may rate it higher. That is a given, but why should any user bend over to give it a higher rating if there's nothing likeable in their opinion? As long as they explain what they didn't like, the review can be very enlightening. More so than the professionals, who take technical details into consideration, which don't add a monkey's to the gaming experience.

If a gamer thinks a game deserves a 4, then they should rate it a 4. That's not the issue. But scores themselves really are useless, for a variety of reasons. One primary issue being that different scores can have different implications.

I tend to rate my video games how someone might grade an exam. A '90' might be considered superior. A '60' on the other hand in my eyes is unplayable. This usually leads to me not using the full spectrum of ranks. For someone to rate a game with a 4/10, I probably would not be willing to even touch it.

Another issue is bias, which users are subject to as much as critics, if not more. Again, everyone should rate a game what they think it deserves. But what about the fan who hated Dragon Age II from the beginning, simply because they couldn't play as the Warden or because their favorite love interest didn't make the final cut? To them, they never cared about whether the game was actually superior/inferior to DA:O, they're just angry because Bioware didn't cater to them. This is why I think scores are useless and that we'd be better off simply relying on reviews themselves, which give a much better scope.  

[xkg]

Amitar wrote...

The amount of hyperbole that goes into those review scores is just insane. There is no way that Dragon Age 2 deserves 4.4.

Amount of hyperbole is insane huh ? why ? 
Is it just because "you don't agree" with that score ?.
4.4 for DA2 ?

If 0(or 1) - is unplayable, broken game
5 is mediocre
10 is the best of the best

then yes, DA2 deserves 4 imo (4.4 is too high). 5 for being totally mediocre "meh" game and -1 for bugs.

Modifié par xkg, 26 mai 2011 - 04:34 .

[abaris]

Il Divo wrote...
But what about the fan who hated Dragon Age II from the beginning, simply because they couldn't play as the Warden or because their favorite love interest didn't make the final cut? To them, they never cared about whether the game was actually superior/inferior to DA:O, they're just angry because Bioware didn't cater to them. This is why I think scores are useless and that we'd be better off simply relying on reviews themselves, which give a much better scope.  

That's what reviews are for. If anyone rated it low without giving an explanation, you can discard that right away. But those reviews I read all pointed out the combat system, the repetitivness, non reacting NPCs and the empty city. I haven't seen a single one complaining about not being the Warden.

[Merced652]

So that pcgamer reviewer who gave it a 94% wasn't biased and his entire review wasn't based on 'extreme hyperbole?'

He did say something about rpg of the decade. Just sayin.

Modifié par Merced652, 26 mai 2011 - 04:45 .

[Corto81]

Merced652 wrote...

So that pcgamer reviewer who gave it a 94% wasn't biased and his entire review wasn't based on 'extreme hyperbole?'

He did say something about rpg of the decade. Just sayin.

He was.

But ON AVERAGE nearly all the games have a rating that (IMO anyway) gives them a rating of about where they should be.

So, no, it's not gospel.

Yes, it's a decent pointer to how good or bad a game actually is.

[KnifeForkAndSpoon]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

KnifeForkAndSpoon wrote...

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

To find out if  I like a game I play it, I don't need someone else to tell me what to think.

Have you played TW2 then?

If he hasnt then i seriously doubt his ability to judge if a game is good or not.

Does it not have its own website?

I'll take that as a no.

[xkg]

Merced652 wrote...

So that pcgamer reviewer who gave it a 94% wasn't biased and his entire review wasn't based on 'extreme hyperbole?'

He did say something about rpg of the decade. Just sayin.

Nope, those so-called "professionals" aren't biased at all
Professional reviews and scores :

PC Gamer 94/100   "The best RPG combat ever" 
http://www.pcgamer.c...n-age-2-review/

PC Format 95/100   "huge potential to become a modern classic"
http://pcformat.tech...review-07-03-11

The Escapist 100/100(wtf ?)   "A pinnacle of role-playing games"
http://www.escapistm...n-Age-II-Review

[abaris]

Corto81 wrote...

But ON AVERAGE nearly all the games have a rating that (IMO anyway) gives them a rating of about where they should be.

Not sure if you're talking about ratings in general or professional ratings. As far as professional ratings go, I haven't seen any downgrading a product from a major publisher or studio. The worst I have seen was in their high 70ies. Usually the gloves only come off if its a product from some indie studio. Not saying that these aren't deserving of low ratings every now and then, but the majors have also landed their share of flops.

[Jerrybnsn]

A 6 or a 7 I see as a game that has "potential" to be a great game, which I would say is an 8 and 9. 10 are for superior games like Origins and Uncharted.

But if a game is a sequel and rates a 6 or a 7 like DAII, then it should get a 4 or 5 because it was based right off of a superior game. Sequels have a more difficult rating system to go by then brand new market IPs.

[Aaleel]

abaris wrote...

Corto81 wrote...

But ON AVERAGE nearly all the games have a rating that (IMO anyway) gives them a rating of about where they should be.

Not sure if you're talking about ratings in general or professional ratings. As far as professional ratings go, I haven't seen any downgrading a product from a major publisher or studio. The worst I have seen was in their high 70ies. Usually the gloves only come off if its a product from some indie studio. Not saying that these aren't deserving of low ratings every now and then, but the majors have also landed their share of flops.

Only time I saw it for a major company was FF XIV, which got a 49, and I can atest to the fact that it was well deserved.

I don't really trust reviews in advance of the release.  Because that early access usually comes with some price if they want to have that early access again in the future.    

[Merced652]

xkg wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

So that pcgamer reviewer who gave it a 94% wasn't biased and his entire review wasn't based on 'extreme hyperbole?'

He did say something about rpg of the decade. Just sayin.

Nope, those so-called "professionals" aren't biased at all
Professional reviews and scores :

PC Gamer 94/100   "The best RPG combat ever" 
http://www.pcgamer.c...n-age-2-review/

PC Format 95/100   "huge potential to become a modern classic"
http://pcformat.tech...review-07-03-11

The Escapist 100/100(wtf ?)   "A pinnacle of role-playing games"
http://www.escapistm...n-Age-II-Review

rofl i forgot about that escapist review. I wonder why they didn't plaster that quote everywhere. 

[Elhanan]

So now we have presented evidence that there may be biased reviews on the plus side of the coin, as well as the negative. It does not make the site any better. Does it also invalidxate like scores for other games like TW2?

http://www.metacriti.../critic-reviews

Read the revies; sift thru the info. But avoid believing in the presented scores.

Modifié par Elhanan, 26 mai 2011 - 06:20 .

[Merced652]

Elhanan wrote...

So now we have presented evidence that there may be biased reviews on the plus side of the coin, as well as the negative. It does not make the site any better. Does it also invalidxate like scores for other games like TW2?

http://www.metacriti.../critic-reviews

Even if it did, does it matter? TW2 metacritc score and user score aren't wildly divergent. 

INB4 4CHAN.