390 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

inkjay wrote...

Elhanan wrote...
And I save my dreams for Forums without trolls, flamers, and whiners....

...and companies/games apologists and cheerleaders... just sayin'

Two bits; four bits; six bits; a peso! All those for Bio, stand up and say so!

[Vaern Sul]

Elhanan wrote...

@ Vaern Sul - those linked sigs have no more credibilty or validity to me than the junk mail I dump daily from some lass named Sarah, if she is a lass.

Might I know why you discard them as a counter-argument for your "Witcher fans want DA2 dead" ?

[Maverick827]

0.1% of a game's total consumers totally constitutes a majority.

[Elhanan]

Vaern Sul wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

@ Vaern Sul - those linked sigs have no more credibilty or validity to me than the junk mail I dump daily from some lass named Sarah, if she is a lass.

Might I know why you discard them as a counter-argument for your "Witcher fans want DA2 dead" ?

IMO, they are all invalid. These 10-0 votes mean nada to me as a rule, nor do their posters. I get my indv reviews elsewhere.

[Vaern Sul]

Oh. Fair enough then.

[Guitar-Hero]

You can get a feel as to how a game is recieved by looking at metacritic, however giving reviews that a basically a mix of "sucks" and "gay" is not a valid review(in my book) and DA 2 is not a 4 game, which clearly indicates that people are pissed off at the product they recieved(which i sympathise with) and the people of 4chan are clearly without reasoning/civilized skills and probably shares the same human value as the average youtube poster.

[Drachasor]

daemon1129 wrote...
It's not like there is someone who just hate Bioware so much that he just spams reviews...It might not be an accurate score on how good or bad the game is, but such extreme low scores shows how disappointed a lot of people are. The noise doesn't just barge in and randomly start bashing a random game. There must be a reason why so many of them put in an effort to flame. And that reason is quite obvious.

To be more precise, people giving the game a 10 because they truly loved it or a 0 because they truly hated it are NOT noise.  If we consider the Signal to be the real opinions of people and the noise to be faked opinions, then people really hating or loving it are not noise.

Now, let's consider that a good game where the signal from the consumers is an 8 with 2000 votes.  Nefarious entities have decided to ruin that score.  BOOM one hundred zeroes get added.  So now the score is 7.6.

Oh, I guess you need more.  Let's have 200 faked scores of zero.  Mmm, 7.2.
400? 6.7  That's with 20% of the scores being faked opinions just to bring it down (as opposed to actual players who legitimatedly disliked the game that much...those gamers give scores that have value).

So does anyone have any evidence that hundreds of votes are faked on here?  They also just have to be faked ONE WAY, because fake 10s will severely offset fake 0s.

So anyone?  ANYONE?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Metacritic is pretty good, imho, and at best I've only seen wild fantasies to the contrary with no basis in fact.  On the other hand, professional reveiws have been noted by people in the industry to be significantly impacted by the desire advertising revenue and industries capturing reviewers/regulators is a pretty well-known phenomenon in the business world.  So those reviews are legitimately suspect.

[xkg]

Steffen wrote...

You can get a feel as to how a game is recieved by looking at metacritic, however giving reviews that a basically a mix of "sucks" and "gay" is not a valid review(in my book) and DA 2 is not a 4 game, which clearly indicates that people are pissed off at the product they recieved(which i sympathise with) and the people of 4chan are clearly without reasoning/civilized skills and probably shares the same human value as the average youtube poster.

It is so easyyyy to put the blame on 4chan isn't it ?

But now i must ask you for proofs. Any links to 4chan boards calling "lets flood DA2 with 0 reviews" ?
Any links to reviews like "Hi, I'am 4chan troll - this is my 0 review"?

[hexaligned]

*shrugs* Those scores seem pretty spot on to me, I'd rate DA2 a little higher, around 5ish, and Witcher 2 a little lower, around 8ish, but comparing a console port with a real PC game isn't really fair.

[DrFumb1ezX]

Metacritic, like all game evaluators, is subject to human opinion, which we all know is flawed at almost every turn.
Does DA2 really deserve a 4.0/4.4/4.3 user score? Maybe. I enjoyed it immensely, yet can easily see why some people would be ticked. It WAS toted as the sequel to DA:O, and many people wanted it like that. I was fine with it honestly, and it holds a solid 8.5/10 in my book.

Was Witcher 2 really ZOMG-AWESOME-SUACE-MUST-NOM-4EVAR?
Quite likely, as I have never played it. But A LOT of people who played DA2 and were disappointed w/ it hyped themselves for Witcher 2 to be awesome, so when it came out on a good note, people were balls-over-heels in love w/ it. That's perception. Or a desire demon.

Besides people are fickle little demons, aren't they?

...(should I get Witcher 2? I didn't play the first one.)

[hexaligned]

soccerchick wrote...

Metacritic, like all game evaluators, is subject to human opinion, which we all know is flawed at almost every turn.
Does DA2 really deserve a 4.0/4.4/4.3 user score? Maybe. I enjoyed it immensely, yet can easily see why some people would be ticked. It WAS toted as the sequel to DA:O, and many people wanted it like that. I was fine with it honestly, and it holds a solid 8.5/10 in my book.

Was Witcher 2 really ZOMG-AWESOME-SUACE-MUST-NOM-4EVAR?
Quite likely, as I have never played it. But A LOT of people who played DA2 and were disappointed w/ it hyped themselves for Witcher 2 to be awesome, so when it came out on a good note, people were balls-over-heels in love w/ it. That's perception. Or a desire demon.

Besides people are fickle little demons, aren't they?

...(should I get Witcher 2? I didn't play the first one.)

Maybe?  Demo it first, or just go watch some vids on Youtube, there are a few "Lets Play:"'s out already. 

Modifié par relhart, 22 mai 2011 - 07:49 .

[ScepticMatt]

User reviews on metacritic are on average more extreme and lower then critic reviews. Also people rate based on emotions. If they feel promises were broken or they're being ripped of, some feel the need to punish by rating low. Likewise if they feel this game/developer deserves support many will rate higher. Though actually reading some of them often gives me a better idea about the game then many 'professional' reviews.

Edit:
P.S.: I hope this thread stays civilized and doesn't end up in 'vs' discussion.
P.P.S.: Witcher 2 is awesome.

Modifié par ScepticMatt, 22 mai 2011 - 08:13 .

[DrFumb1ezX]

relhart wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

Metacritic, like all game evaluators, is subject to human opinion, which we all know is flawed at almost every turn.
Does DA2 really deserve a 4.0/4.4/4.3 user score? Maybe. I enjoyed it immensely, yet can easily see why some people would be ticked. It WAS toted as the sequel to DA:O, and many people wanted it like that. I was fine with it honestly, and it holds a solid 8.5/10 in my book.

Was Witcher 2 really ZOMG-AWESOME-SUACE-MUST-NOM-4EVAR?
Quite likely, as I have never played it. But A LOT of people who played DA2 and were disappointed w/ it hyped themselves for Witcher 2 to be awesome, so when it came out on a good note, people were balls-over-heels in love w/ it. That's perception. Or a desire demon.

Besides people are fickle little demons, aren't they?

...(should I get Witcher 2? I didn't play the first one.)

Maybe?  Demo it first, or just go watch some vids on Youtube, there are a few "Lets Play:"'s out already. 

I might just do that. I just might. 

[Vaern Sul]

soccerchick wrote...


...(should I get Witcher 2? I didn't play the first one.)

Well, look at some helpful™ reviews on Metacritic. Then look at you PC config.
If you're above minimum, and you feel you could like this game, and if playing a pre-set male character doesn't put you off, go ahead and buy it.

It's got loads of replayability, and the environments are great. Gameplay and story are subject to personnal taste, so I can't tell I you'll like them.

The box content's pretty neat. for your regular $50, you've got the game+printed manual, bonus CD + OST, a map of the Witcher's World in color, papercraft and a small leaflet you probably won't understand 'till Act 2. 

However, I beg you : Don't pirate it  : For 4 years CDPR put all their efforts, their love, blood and sweat in that game, and much of their resources. Pirating TW2 is as bad as pirating an indie game. 

Modifié par Vaern Sul, 22 mai 2011 - 07:57 .

[hexaligned]

Yes, that's a good thing to note, Witcher 2 isn't a game that I would imagine is much fun to play if you can't run it at 60fps+, the combat is fairly twitchy. If you don't have a relatively modern gaming rig I wouldn't recommend getting it.

Modifié par relhart, 22 mai 2011 - 08:04 .

[Elhanan]

Drachasor wrote...

To be more precise, people giving the game a 10 because they truly loved it or a 0 because they truly hated it are NOT noise.  If we consider the Signal to be the real opinions of people and the noise to be faked opinions, then people really hating or loving it are not noise.

Now, let's consider that a good game where the signal from the consumers is an 8 with 2000 votes.  Nefarious entities have decided to ruin that score.  BOOM one hundred zeroes get added.  So now the score is 7.6.

Oh, I guess you need more.  Let's have 200 faked scores of zero.  Mmm, 7.2.
400? 6.7  That's with 20% of the scores being faked opinions just to bring it down (as opposed to actual players who legitimatedly disliked the game that much...those gamers give scores that have value).

So does anyone have any evidence that hundreds of votes are faked on here?  They also just have to be faked ONE WAY, because fake 10s will severely offset fake 0s.

So anyone?  ANYONE?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Metacritic is pretty good, imho, and at best I've only seen wild fantasies to the contrary with no basis in fact.  On the other hand, professional reveiws have been noted by people in the industry to be significantly impacted by the desire advertising revenue and industries capturing reviewers/regulators is a pretty well-known phenomenon in the business world.  So those reviews are legitimately suspect.

Thanks; so much easier to find evidence when it is provided.

How does anyone voting the extreme know the other is a fake vote? As you have provided, voters are altering scores to offset perceived sleights; thus all such votes are invalid. Neither DA2 or TW2 are likely all poor or excellent, so this system is skewed towards the vocal majority whoever they choose to slay or defend.

Biased, emotion driven, subjective opinion being poised as a Vulcan is somewhat hard for me to take seriously. Pass.

[abaris]

soccerchick wrote...

Metacritic, like all game evaluators, is subject to human opinion, which we all know is flawed at almost every turn.
Does DA2 really deserve a 4.0/4.4/4.3 user score? Maybe. I enjoyed it immensely, yet can easily see why some people would be ticked. It WAS toted as the sequel to DA:O, and many people wanted it like that. I was fine with it honestly, and it holds a solid 8.5/10 in my book.

Regardless of it being the sequel I would rate it about 5. With all the things missing and needlessly turned over, I would still have said its mediocre tending to bad.

It really has nothing to do with calling itself DAII. It's simply hack slash and jump with plotholes to drive a freight train through.

[evmiller]

Vaern Sul wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

@ Vaern Sul - those linked sigs have no more credibilty or validity to me than the junk mail I dump daily from some lass named Sarah, if she is a lass.

Might I know why you discard them as a counter-argument for your "Witcher fans want DA2 dead" ?

Keep in mind,  a lot of Witcher fans are the very same fans of Dragon Age and I'd go as far as saying MOST fantasy RPG fans own games from both franchises. Yes, I believe DA2's failure helped to inflate TW2 scores by a least a whole point, however TW2 is no less then an 85 regardless of it's many problems. It's getting 10's becasue of Bioware. Also, DA2 had a bad Metacritic before TW2 was even out and most of us have already been over there and said what we had to say already.

[Chickenhawked]

relhart wrote...

Yes, that's a good thing to note, Witcher 2 isn't a game that I would imagine is much fun to play if you can't run it at 60fps+, the combat is fairly twitchy. If you don't have a relatively modern gaming rig I wouldn't recommend getting it.

My computer is 5 years old and runs Witcher 2 just fine on MAX settings.  Compare to Dragon Age 2, which doesn't run just fine; I have to take my DA2 down to DX9 because on DX11 it's buggy and has terrible performance.  (And when I do so, Dragon Age 2 attempts to lock me out of high res textures, anisotropic filtering, and so on for no apparent reason--I just force these options in the .ini, and as long as I don't run the game in DX11 I never have any problems.)

Even DA2's graphics options are a mess.  They literally got nothing right with DA2.  The game doesn't even have normal audio: The audio during cutscenes is super soft, while the audio during battles is UNBELIEVABLY LOUD.  I have to play DA2 with Loudness Equalization or the game is unplayable with both headphones, speakers, stereo, and 5.1.

I can't even rebind "ESC" in DA2.  The list just goes on and on.

FYI, Metacritic is as accurate as you're going to get.  To believe that it doesn't reflect quality is either ignorance or an attempt to save face.  I think it's pathetic that BioWare continues to defend DA2 when their time and money would be better spent making a toolset or some GOOD DLC.  You can't save DA2--it's terrible--but you CAN save your reputation by proving that you can make a good product.  But instead the developers continue to waste their time posting gems like, and I quote David Gaiter when commenting on the quality of these forums, "****ty crowd": http://social.biowar...40873/2#7444287

[Mr.House]

What other users like means nothing to me. I go by critics who review games for a living and I know theirs no bs there(sometimes), not reviewers like PC gamer >.>

That does not mean I agree all the time, I hate ME2 and critics gave that game a good reviews.

Modifié par Mr.House, 22 mai 2011 - 08:52 .

[Giltspur]

I think the Witcher 2 /  Dragon Age 2 scores indicate that the gaming community is generally happy with Witcher 2 and that many were disappointed or even disgusted with Dragon Age 2.  I don't think the 4.x score is representative of what most really think of DA2 so much as its indicative of how passionate the gaming community can be and as a result how extreme their internet wrath can be.  

I think the critical 78-82 for DA2 versus the 90+ rating for Witcher 2 are better indicator of actual game quality than the user scores are in this case since I think emotion is dragging down the user scores for DA2.

[LiquidGrape]

If, like me, you've come to think of the average "gamer" as an infantile, self-entitled, whining little brat, then no, you don't interpret metacritic user scores as an unequivocal representation of quality.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 22 mai 2011 - 08:56 .

[Drachasor]

Elhanan wrote...
Thanks; so much easier to find evidence when it is provided.

How does anyone voting the extreme know the other is a fake vote? As you have provided, voters are altering scores to offset perceived sleights; thus all such votes are invalid. Neither DA2 or TW2 are likely all poor or excellent, so this system is skewed towards the vocal majority whoever they choose to slay or defend.

Biased, emotion driven, subjective opinion being poised as a Vulcan is somewhat hard for me to take seriously. Pass.

Enjoyment is emotion-driven.  Why does emotion invalidate the score someone gives it?  Someone voting an extreme, but being honest, is giving a vote that has value.  That in turn makes the aggregate vote better.  The only thing that wouldn't have value would be votes made to undermine actual opinion, but it would take a ludicrous number of votes to significantly sway the total.

[Elhanan]

I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you.  - Robin Williams

Modifié par Elhanan, 22 mai 2011 - 09:08 .

[agesilaj12]

Get over it already. DA2 is piece of tr$$h, while Witcher 2 is excellent game. Nothing to see here.That's just how things worked out because of choices you made.