390 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Yes; recycled maps are a brand new phenomenon, and are a threat against the Maker. This warrants a barrage of zero votes (to offset the equally unfair 10's), to give us an aggragate score which is fair, reasonable, and just.



The User scores are clearly off at least for my investments, and many hither and yon complain of the professional scores. This link helps explain some of the technical flaws that may occur; not my thing, but may help some to see that it ain't statisticians behind the wheels over there:

http://www.brainygam...metacritic.html

[Drachasor]

Elhanan wrote...

Yes; recycled maps are a brand new phenomenon, and are a threat against the Maker. This warrants a barrage of zero votes (to offset the equally unfair 10's), to give us an aggragate score which is fair, reasonable, and just.



The User scores are clearly off at least for my investments, and many hither and yon complain of the professional scores. This link helps explain some of the technical flaws that may occur; not my thing, but may help some to see that it ain't statisticians behind the wheels over there:

http://www.brainygam...metacritic.html

Recycled maps aren't new, but it has always been a sign of at least one element of a game being a bit sloppy.  Heavy, heavy use of recycled maps is a sign the game is deeply flawed.  Yeah, ME used recylced maps, but it didn't use them all that heavily (never on anything to do with the main story arc, for instance) -- still it wasn't a good thing that they did that.

As for your link, maybe you should actually READ it.  I'm talking about user reviews and the link it criticizing how Metacritic uses Critic's Reviews.  These are totally different beasts.  Heck, I think Critic Reviews are so flawed and clearly biased by the publisher that they generally aren't worth paying much attention to...they are more of a feature preview than a serious game review the vast majority of the time.  Anyhow, point is, read your own links before you act like they mean something that they don't.

[AlanC9]

When did we start taking Metacritic user scores seriously in the first place? I don't remember any chatter about them before DA2.

[Fishy]

Bioware screwed up DA2 because it's a beat'em'up


 The Witcher 2   
I had this while playing this fight

So how I`m supposed to take any beat'em'up critic seriously?The Witcher 2 it's a pc game yet it's seem to be made for console.Same with the whole silent protagonist argument and after they rave about how they hate da:o compared to a 7 episode series consisted o fa 60 minutes pre rendered cutscene.

DA2 received a lot trolling.That just what i`m gathering.

Modifié par Suprez30, 23 mai 2011 - 05:39 .

[Elhanan]

Drachasor wrote...

Recycled maps aren't new, but it has always been a sign of at least one element of a game being a bit sloppy.  Heavy, heavy use of recycled maps is a sign the game is deeply flawed.  Yeah, ME used recylced maps, but it didn't use them all that heavily (never on anything to do with the main story arc, for instance) -- still it wasn't a good thing that they did that.

As for your link, maybe you should actually READ it.  I'm talking about user reviews and the link it criticizing how Metacritic uses Critic's Reviews.  These are totally different beasts.  Heck, I think Critic Reviews are so flawed and clearly biased by the publisher that they generally aren't worth paying much attention to...they are more of a feature preview than a serious game review the vast majority of the time.  Anyhow, point is, read your own links before you act like they mean something that they don't.

And you miss my point; already tossed the User scores aside for being polarized scraps. Now the Professional scores and some older People rating gizmo are shown to be invalid or skewed.

I go elsewhere, and maybe the masses should as well.

[SilentK]

Hmmm... I went on metacritic and gave DA2 an 8 or 9, don't remember now. Several changes have been introduced in DA2 that I really really like, but I would be very happy to get my Hawke out to see something outside of Kirkwall. Oh well.

One thing that makes using metacritic difficult is you don't know how people use the raiting system. Don't really know what a 0 would be, I don't think I have ever played a game like that. Hmm.... There are quite a few reviews that I remember made me wonder if the person in fact even had played the game. Remember having a forum-conversation here on the bioware boards a couple of weeks ago with someone who was opposed to all changes made. Well, I was interested in how this person felt about it because a lot of changes were to my taste. It's always nice to hear how someone else interpret a game. A little bit further in the conversation it comes up that the person in question had never played DA2. Well, that made me a little sad.
I have people on the job who liked certain aspects of DA:O more, but they never said just, "zero, I disapprove", there were always several things that we talked about and liked all of us. I think that there as been some some people that caught the kick-DA2-bug, some. I understand giving it lower scores if there are aspects of a game that you don't like. Hmmm.... but I guess that a zero for me would be not being able to play the game at all or something like that.

edit: spelling..... as always

Modifié par SilentK, 23 mai 2011 - 09:51 .

[Drachasor]

Elhanan wrote...

Drachasor wrote...

Recycled maps aren't new, but it has always been a sign of at least one element of a game being a bit sloppy.  Heavy, heavy use of recycled maps is a sign the game is deeply flawed.  Yeah, ME used recylced maps, but it didn't use them all that heavily (never on anything to do with the main story arc, for instance) -- still it wasn't a good thing that they did that.

As for your link, maybe you should actually READ it.  I'm talking about user reviews and the link it criticizing how Metacritic uses Critic's Reviews.  These are totally different beasts.  Heck, I think Critic Reviews are so flawed and clearly biased by the publisher that they generally aren't worth paying much attention to...they are more of a feature preview than a serious game review the vast majority of the time.  Anyhow, point is, read your own links before you act like they mean something that they don't.

And you miss my point; already tossed the User scores aside for being polarized scraps. Now the Professional scores and some older People rating gizmo are shown to be invalid or skewed.

I go elsewhere, and maybe the masses should as well.

Who the heck takes professional scores seriously?  They are pretty much all unduly influence by the fact they are dependant on the ad revenue from the companies who games they are reviewing.  Their captured by those big companies which is why pretty much all games get a 7+ and most get an 8+.

On the other hand, what is the basis by which you dismiss aggregate user scores? In my experience the aggregate scores are about right, certainly within a point or so.  That's pretty good.

[Elhanan]

Drachasor wrote...

Who the heck takes professional scores seriously?  They are pretty much all unduly influence by the fact they are dependant on the ad revenue from the companies who games they are reviewing.  Their captured by those big companies which is why pretty much all games get a 7+ and most get an 8+.

On the other hand, what is the basis by which you dismiss aggregate user scores? In my experience the aggregate scores are about right, certainly within a point or so.  That's pretty good.

I take professional reviews seriously, as well as indv reviews. But I do no care fpr scores because reviews are subjective and informative. And a system that is used which voters feel compelled to alter their evaluations in order to adjust the outcome is not one I choose to validate. I shall gain both elsewhere.

[Rxdiaz]

I love how people dismiss metacritic scores and vgchartz numbers when they don't agree with them.

If DA2 had received great metacritic scores or vgchartz had monster numbers want to bet how many of these same people would be posting these numbers?

[Ottemis]

I don't give a rats really. You either like the game or not, why would you need x- number of people to agree with you. Honestly, I think it healthy to constructively argue between people's opinions of a game, but bringing these kind of 'useless' scores into it shouldn't factor into the discussion imho (nor your formed opinion).
What's the point in the end? Are they all joining the discussion?

[Rxdiaz]

The point is trying to avoid wasting $60 on a game that isn't worth it. Is that so hard to understand? Maybe you've got plenty of money to throw away on games that you won't even like but most people don't. There are plenty of games out there that cost $60, some are worth it many are not. These sites help buyers separate the wheat from the chaff...

[Ottemis]

Nah absolutely not, but I don't see how a number is going to help you decide whether or not to spend it.
It effectively tells you nothing aside from that X- voters didn't like it. It doesn't tell you WHY not.
Watch some (gameplay) video reviews and base an opinion on what you see.
Everyone judges games based on different personal preferences in the end.

Modifié par Ottemis, 23 mai 2011 - 03:32 .

[Elhanan]

Rxdiaz wrote...

The point is trying to avoid wasting $60 on a game that isn't worth it. Is that so hard to understand? Maybe you've got plenty of money to throw away on games that you won't even like but most people don't. There are plenty of games out there that cost $60, some are worth it many are not. These sites help buyers separate the wheat from the chaff...

But I have already done that without metacritic, and skipped on TW. Read reviews and indv posts, and decided it was not for me. No bogus metascores needed.

And seeing how DAO is rated rather high, and I have never bragged on that score either.... *order of crow to go*

[Drachasor]

Elhanan wrote...
But I have already done that without metacritic, and skipped on TW. Read reviews and indv posts, and decided it was not for me. No bogus metascores needed.

That doesn't mean the metacritic user score is worthless.  No one is saying it is the only way to get a reading on a game, only that it is a way that can be useful.

[Elhanan]

Drachasor wrote...

That doesn't mean the metacritic user score is worthless.  No one is saying it is the only way to get a reading on a game, only that it is a way that can be useful.

For those willing to accept skewed data; perhaps. User scores seem consistently biased, pro scores are reporrtedly tainted, and People scores were scrapped altogether due to inaccuracies. No thanks.

[Drachasor]

Elhanan wrote...

Drachasor wrote...

That doesn't mean the metacritic user score is worthless.  No one is saying it is the only way to get a reading on a game, only that it is a way that can be useful.

For those willing to accept skewed data; perhaps. User scores seem consistently biased, pro scores are reporrtedly tainted, and People scores were scrapped altogether due to inaccuracies. No thanks.

The net score seems consistently pretty accurate (within a point).  That's pretty good, imho.  Sure, there's noise, but a lot of that noise cancels itself out it seems.

[Elhanan]

Drachasor wrote...

The net score seems consistently pretty accurate (within a point).  That's pretty good, imho.  Sure, there's noise, but a lot of that noise cancels itself out it seems.

In your opinion, the score seems close; maybe not in mine or others. Who then is right when looking at a subjective result?

Even if the final score is spot on, being based on false data means the equation in use must be flawed. Still taking a pass.

[T764]

I don't use metacritic so i don't know how their scoring works but just looking at a numerical valuation to judge the quality of a game is kind of daft, is there that much difference between a 89 or a 90?.
And as for reviews many can be biased or worthless depending the way they are written, unless a review describes the factors of the game before adding opinion it can become difficult to seperate personal preferences from actual flaws.

I remember having a conversation about the Square-Enix game The Last Remenant one day and this guy was actually lowering his score of the game because of a flaw that he had ignored in other bigger name games.

Often if a someone doesn't like a game it becomes time to pick at the game until it unravels, whereas if they like a game many problems can and will be overlooked.

And from a personal perspective i can't really use reviews or other peoples opinions to judge games because quite often i will like a lower rated game but will dislike a higher rated one. My game buying has now become a risk vs reward activity.

[Huntress]

Rxdiaz wrote...

I love how people dismiss metacritic scores and vgchartz numbers when they don't agree with them.

If DA2 had received great metacritic scores or vgchartz had monster numbers want to bet how many of these same people would be posting these numbers?

Metacritic was in this forum the moment DA2 went for sale, not one  was pass chapter 1 in the game and already was named as bad. Never before was spammed in DA forums until DA2. Probably they were trying to make players to shift to other products, who knows.

I have never been in that site, never will, I buy what I like and only read from that game forums, thats what make me to buy it or not. Read from both sides the good and the bad and then I decide if is worth the risk.

Thats what I did with WOW played for 5 years, thats what I did with D2, played for 4 years, thats what I did with DA, still playing it.

Modifié par Huntress, 23 mai 2011 - 04:53 .

[Il Divo]

Rxdiaz wrote...

I love how people dismiss metacritic scores and vgchartz numbers when they don't agree with them.

If DA2 had received great metacritic scores or vgchartz had monster numbers want to bet how many of these same people would be posting these numbers?

To offer the opposite scenario, I wonder how many users here who wouldn't normally take metacritic seriously are doing so only because it bashes DA2? 

[TheMadCat]

Il Divo wrote...

Rxdiaz wrote...

I love how people dismiss metacritic scores and vgchartz numbers when they don't agree with them.

If DA2 had received great metacritic scores or vgchartz had monster numbers want to bet how many of these same people would be posting these numbers?

To offer the opposite scenario, I wonder how many users here who wouldn't normally take metacritic seriously are doing so only because it bashes DA2? 

You mean people actually scold data which doesn't support their beliefs while pointing to data that does support them. My God, I think you've just discovered something revolutionary. <_<

[Rxdiaz]

Absolutely. I am not saying it's the be all, end all tool. But it certainly gives you some interesting data as far as people's opinions of a game. I usually find my opinion is pretty well reflected in metacritic scores. Has there been exceptions? Sure, but overall I haven't found any single reviewer whose opinions match mine as accurately as metacritic tends to.

There is a reason why BioWare themselves admits they target certain scores on metacritic...

[Persephone]

Il Divo wrote...

Rxdiaz wrote...

I love how people dismiss metacritic scores and vgchartz numbers when they don't agree with them.

If DA2 had received great metacritic scores or vgchartz had monster numbers want to bet how many of these same people would be posting these numbers?

To offer the opposite scenario, I wonder how many users here who wouldn't normally take metacritic seriously are doing so only because it bashes DA2? 

Happened. With everyone going "RAH Metacritic is unreliable!" when TW2 got its share of troll zeros. To take it to further extremes, would Barney be everyone's most reliable reviewer if the dinosaur went on and on about how DAII is a spawn of the devil? 

[Ottemis]

Rxdiaz wrote...

Absolutely. I am not saying it's the be all, end all tool. But it certainly gives you some interesting data as far as people's opinions of a game. I usually find my opinion is pretty well reflected in metacritic scores. Has there been exceptions? Sure, but overall I haven't found any single reviewer whose opinions match mine as accurately as metacritic tends to.

There is a reason why BioWare themselves admits they target certain scores on metacritic...

Well I'm always carefull with that stuff, my opinion seems to generally not be that of the mayority, this kinda goes across all media. So yeah, I normally go out of my way to gather material I can base some kind of meaningfull opinion on before buying/playing a game.