645 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Fix1o0 wrote...

TW2 is more mature in every way, and doesn't feel like it's made for 12 year old boys and girls.

A mature rating doesn't mean it's better, ya know.

But if that's what sunders your mount...

[Corto81]

Firky wrote...
(But Merrill is one hell of a character.)

This is an unfair comparison, because sex scenes are what TW does. Characters are what DA does.

/shrug

I guess to each his own.

While I loved the believeable, deep characters on DA:O, I thought DAII characters were a complete disaster.

The one-track minds of Fenris and Anders, the undeniably dumb Merrill, the zealous Sebastian - all 4 with the cognitive processes of 12-year olds.

Apart from Varric and Isabela, no character had any moral dilemmas, doubts or fears, they just kept rambling on their agenda 100% of the time... 
Honestly, MY Hawke would never have stayed in their company for 10 years.
Yet the games makes you stay with them - Anders anyway.

To me, TW2 beat DAII even on that front, which is supposed to be BW's strongest point.

I do prefer my own character and a party to control in RPGs.
But TW2 does what it does so well, it completely destroys DA2 in every way, even without a party system.
And Triss, Roche, etc. feel more believable, real and complex than Fenris, Anders, Merrill etc. even without them being in your "party".

[Firky]

I think the TW2 characters are fine. (I think it's what Merrill says, for me. She's just a really believeable character because she is really out of the square.)

As to which is more powerful (and mature), sex or character, I'd add that Alistair didn't have a whole cult following because of his granny undies.

[Dreadstruck]

simonc4175 wrote...
It's possible with wooden swords like in the picture you posted but not with claymores which are two-handed weapons.

Since both people in the picture were in a stance it's common sense to assume it would be followed up with attacking moves.

It was you afterall who brought reality into the debate by comparing people with wooden swords to that of a Witcher using  two handed swords made from steel.

No offense but do you even read I write? Or do you just keep putting words in my mouth?
Of course it's not possible to swing a sword like that in real life, why do you insist on bringing that up again and again when I clearly haven't said anything like that?

And I actually wasn't comparing any swords at all, my point was mainly aimed at the holding animations.
Again: The combat stance, weapon holding animation. Not the weapon itself.
 It kinda baffles me that you can't understand this simple fact and keep shifting the subject into something else like katana weight.

But I'll paraphrase:
I keep talking about the animations
You keep talking about the weapons

There is no direct reference to Witchers having augmented strength as most of the traing is based of dexterity, use of magic and herbal remedies.

In the first act of the game Geralt is using generic steel swords which aren't made from any special materials.

You might also want to note that Japansese katanas of the time were tailor made to the person needing them and often crafted by the persons them selves.

It's part of the game to make combat fun and dynamic,  these games aren't meant to realistic because if they were they would be rather dull.

There is. I suggest you to look it up(hint: original novels). Herbal remedies aren't everything, the trainees are also given strong mutagens and they either survive or die afterwards.
It is also known that Geralt was one of the few that was experimented on even more.
Since you are at it, you can also look up the different meteorite materials most of the weapons are made from in the game.


And please, you are the one here repeatedly bringing up the realism(such as the inability to swing a sword in a mentioned fashion in a fantasy realm), while I keep telling you it's a fantasy game.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 23 mai 2011 - 01:58 .

[Kroepoek]

Ottemis wrote...

Heh yeah, in DA2 I didn't much need the sex, there was ample buildup between the characters.
Asmuch as I can appreciate a good-looking sex-scene, not needing one makes it a more mature game in my book..

With ample buildup you mean how it's blatantly obvious shoved in your face. I see the scenes in TW2 more as cherry on the cake.

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

A mature rating doesn't mean it's better, ya know.

In this case, it is.

Modifié par Fix1o0, 23 mai 2011 - 01:25 .

[Chromie]

simonc4175 wrote...
In the first act of the game Geralt is using generic steel swords which aren't made from any special materials.

3 different coloured Meteorite swords, Aerdonite, Silver Swords doesn't silver weight less then steel etc. I can go on and on. 

Some swords are magic how the hell do you expect to judge fantasy weapons using real life?

[Dreadstruck]

Ringo12 wrote...

simonc4175 wrote...
In the first act of the game Geralt is using generic steel swords which aren't made from any special materials.

3 different coloured Meteorite swords, Aerdonite, Silver Swords doesn't silver weight less then steel etc. I can go on and on. 

Some swords are magic how the hell do you expect to judge fantasy weapons using real life?

Ugh, I dunno. I am half expecting he will answer with another argument blatantly ignoring the fantasy setting and the fact that I was talking about something completely different.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 23 mai 2011 - 01:44 .

[MassFrost]

Corto81 wrote...

To me, TW2 beat DAII even on that front, which is supposed to be BW's strongest point.

Loved this about TW2 as well. It was nice knowing that if you happened to find a particular character annoying, or just plain disliked them, you weren't really obligated to keep them around or stay with them. Countless options could lead you in an alternative direction away from them.

In DA2 I was just disappointed that I had to wait all the way until the end of the game to kill Anders.

[Maria13]

Firky wrote...

I think the TW2 characters are fine. (I think it's what Merrill says, for me. She's just a really believeable character because she is really out of the square.)

As to which is more powerful (and mature), sex or character, I'd add that Alistair didn't have a whole cult following because of his granny undies.

The point you make about TW and DA (sex v character) is quite valid overall, though perhaps I would cast it in terms of sex v romance (romance being talking and courting prior to sex).

However, while romance was excellently done in DA:O and left both male and female players gagging for more: be it of Alistair, Zev or Morrie... In DA2 although the characters were well done the romances were really, really lacking. The problem is that DA2 was rushed and they did not seem to think a ten year romance through properly. I've said several times before, I romanced Anders and he stood six years in my mansion... It was interesting that the one character you couldn't romance, Aveline, was the one that had the most satisfying and convincing marriage/romance in DA2. So the excellent portrayal of character is still there in DA2; but the romancing for the player... A real step back. 

BTW I for one liked Alistair's granny undies, I'd dispute they were such, actually, they were more of a makeship loincloth, because you could see some very pleasing bulges under them....

Modifié par Maria13, 23 mai 2011 - 01:48 .

[Perles75]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

TW2 is more mature in every way, and doesn't feel like it's made for 12 year old boys and girls.

A mature rating doesn't mean it's better, ya know.

I agree. And not even a sex scene.
Not to mention that DA2 allows multiple romances (which is a bit different than a sex scene), with different gender combinations.

Mind you, I'm currently playing the first witcher and I'm enjoying it very much, but I really hate the "everything good vs. everything bad" trend that always appears in the discussions that put together TW2 and DA2.
People that complained for months for the 'limited choice of character' in DA2 (just because you cannot choose the race) and now praise TW2 to heaven are simply not believable, just to mention one.


P.S.: the characters preference is really so subjective! I for example liked the DA2 companions a lot, on the average more than DAO.

Modifié par Perles75, 23 mai 2011 - 02:01 .

[rak72]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

Corto81 wrote...

To me, TW2 beat DAII even on that front, which is supposed to be BW's strongest point.

Loved this about TW2 as well. It was nice knowing that if you happened to find a particular character annoying, or just plain disliked them, you weren't really obligated to keep them around or stay with them. Countless options could lead you in an alternative direction away from them.

In DA2 I was just disappointed that I had to wait all the way until the end of the game to kill Anders.

LOL, same here!

LOL, add me to the list, too.  If this were the case in DA2, it would have just been me, Varric, Avaline & Sebastian.

[Aargh12]

Witcher 2 took the same way as DA2, but CDPR managed to do it RIGHT:
[Spam image removed]

Modifié par JohnEpler, 23 mai 2011 - 03:58 .

[Ottemis]

Oh yeah, I happily stabbed Anders aswell. Took too long to be able to but happy I could in the end though, romanced or not, no matter.

Modifié par Ottemis, 23 mai 2011 - 02:15 .

[Chromie]

Aargh12 wrote...

Witcher 2 took the same way as DA2, but CDPR managed to do it RIGHT:
[Spam image removed]

Lol nice use of the Geralt bust.

Modifié par JohnEpler, 23 mai 2011 - 03:59 .

[_Aine_]

The weirdest thing about the Witcher 2 for me, is that I *regretted* having the love scene with Triss where in Dragon Age: Origins - I enjoyed what the romances brought to the story in terms of emotional investment. In TW2 I almost feel like it was a dalliance that merely sidetracked me from my goals. Despite the fact I felt the love scene in the Elven Gardens was pretty well done, and I thought tasteful, personally, given the crude nature of the low-society-rung setting in general for the game (which I also adore for what it is), I still feel like the next playthrough I will attempt to ignore that. After the big reveal in the Blue Stripes quest... it just felt wrong. Sorry Triss, it isn't you, it's me. LOL

[Paul E Dangerously]

The real answer is that TW2 just has better press. It's got the PC Master Race crowd slobbering all over it, so any real flaws are going to be glossed over in short order.

[Dragoonlordz]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

The real answer is that TW2 just has better press. It's got the PC Master Race crowd slobbering all over it, so any real flaws are going to be glossed over in short order.

Blahblahblah.. Believe what you want. The game is amazing therefore must be a conspiracy perpetrated by either blind fools or elitists! <_< Really...?

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 23 mai 2011 - 03:04 .

[Cyberstrike nTo]

erynnar wrote...

Morroian wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Yeah, but ME2 didn't throw out it's own backstories on characters making them completely different people. Not even when they get dead and resurrected. 

You mean Anders? Its not like they didn't give a good reason for the change.  

He's one (only one of many), but for no good reason threw out the lore and previous history or DAA. Anders had no interest in taking up the mantle of starting an uprising for mage freedom. He wanted his freedom. He was friendly, caring, funny, and charming. He may not have liked what happens to mages (very few seem to like it, and very few don't seem to harbor some resentment towards their jailors--human nature and all). But, he agrees with Wynne in DAA that it is foolish for mages to want to be completely free of the Chantry.

 
In Awakening Anders clearly states that he has no love for the Circle and the Templars (which are run by Chantry) he also states that he hates "Chantry oversight as much as the next mage" but at that time he thinks a rebellion or the Circle breaking away without a leader or a clear plan is wrong. By the end of DA2 he states he think that there is absoultely no choice left open to the mages other than to rebell.

What he says and his actions in DA2 is just taking his character's established POV to the extreme.  

He and Justice have conversations where Justice tells him he is disappointed Anders doesn't champion the cause and Anders tells him, "welcome to the real world spirit." Justice himself says he can't jump bodies again.

I recall conversations that Justice has where states he doesn't know what would happen to him when his body is decay. Anders is what I would a relucant revolutionary there are lines in DA2 where he said that he is not sure he start or lead a mage rebellion.
 

You can kill Anders but he comes back.

The same with Liliana, Zevron, and Howe. I think this has to with Bioware not wanting to create anymore  alternate versions than they could handle given the time they had to work with or maybe they wanted more a certian "default" cannon where player choices that don't mesh with theirs are maybe like an alternate reality.

And the Warden saves Anders from Rylock by making him a warden and gives him his cat. But that same Warden Commander would make him give up the cat and allow the Chantry to send a templar to the keep to watch him?

Actually Anders said the Wardens made him give up the cat. I don't recall him ever mentioning it was the Warden-Commander that ordered him to give up the cat, and even if that is the case, it's entirely possibly that it's a different Warden-Commander than one yours or my character from Awakening who leaves shortly after the events of Awakening.     

And if the Warden can defy Rylock and make Anders a warden too, then they can defy having Chanry templars on their property.

 
It's the Warden-Commander invoking the Rite of Conscription and getting permission from Alistar/Anora/Loghain that saves Anders from Rylock. 

Rylock also ambushes the party in a warehouse in the city and states that: "For too long Wardens have sheltered blood mages and criminals" which basically meant that Anders being a Warden isn't a guaratee that he is free from the Templars.  

Sorry just too many inconsistancies for me, too many plot holes. But I did like DA2 as a mage (despite it, go figure).

I don't see it as inconsistancies just as taking what was established in Awakening to the extreme. Remember: People do change over time.    

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 23 mai 2011 - 10:58 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

The real answer is that TW2 just has better press. It's got the PC Master Race crowd slobbering all over it, so any real flaws are going to be glossed over in short order.

Blahblahblah.. Believe what you want. The game is amazing therefore must be a conspiracy perpetrated by either blind fools or elitists! <_< Really...?

Did I say that? No. Simply that a lot of people were pre-biased against DA2 and pre-biased in favor of TW2. Even the flaws it does have will be ignored because it's got better press among the fan community because CDP is the little company that could against the evil corporate giant. Plus it's a PC exclusive, so it has to be better because it wasn't dumbed down for those poor sods that don't own a PC capable of sucking enough juice to power a small house.

I'm still facepalming at the people who look back at DAO as this shining achievement when they were bashing it for not being BG2 at it's launch.

[Aargh12]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Plus it's a PC exclusive, so it has to be better because it wasn't dumbed down for those poor sods that don't own a PC capable of sucking enough juice to power a small house.

Funny thing, cause true PC Gamer Master Race thinks of Witcher 2 as a disgrace to PC gaming. Pad support and interface that looks very "consolish", only 16:9 resolutions, inability to change graphic options in-game, running poorly on some comps, yuo name it.

The engine was multi-platform from the start, but budget didn't allow CDPR to make the game for consoles.

Modifié par Aargh12, 23 mai 2011 - 03:22 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

The real answer is that TW2 just has better press. It's got the PC Master Race crowd slobbering all over it, so any real flaws are going to be glossed over in short order.

Blahblahblah.. Believe what you want. The game is amazing therefore must be a conspiracy perpetrated by either blind fools or elitists! <_< Really...?

Did I say that? No. Simply that a lot of people were pre-biased against DA2 and pre-biased in favor of TW2. Even the flaws it does have will be ignored because it's got better press among the fan community because CDP is the little company that could against the evil corporate giant. Plus it's a PC exclusive, so it has to be better because it wasn't dumbed down for those poor sods that don't own a PC capable of sucking enough juice to power a small house.

I'm still facepalming at the people who look back at DAO as this shining achievement when they were bashing it for not being BG2 at it's launch.

First of all this bias you assume was there is not based on people saying "I was pre-biased against DA2" or "I was pre-biased in favour of TW2" its just your opinion that such bias exists. Second the game TW2 itself has been quoted as might be ported to the consoles and the developers themselves said they won't have to dumb down or streamline anything for a console port other than maybe toning down the graphics. Lastly I do not myself know anyone personally by name or ID on here who falls into your last catagory and especially to the extent where they call DAO the shining achievement in Biowares history or their gaming catalogue.

People may have disliked aspects of it but I know of noone who claims it was the best thing since sliced bread after DA2 came out, DAO still had it's flaws but DA2 had far more thats all. However DA2 in my opinion and many others DA2 doesn't stand well enough on it's own merits let alone when comparing with other titles such as TW2 or even DAO for some. Yet you claim it's because we or they are all biased eh? No, sorry but the title just was not as good as other ones or even for some good enough on it's own without comparisons.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 23 mai 2011 - 03:26 .

[MonkeyLungs]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

DA2 doesn't try to go for the realistic style so you can't fault it there. TW2 does however.

This is true, too.  I get the impression that the DA universe is more comic booky while CDPR was going for a more realistic vibe with TW series.  The cartoon body explosions kind of give it away, in DA2.

Well that is not what we thought about it when DA:O launched. This comment by Hammer6767 just really speaks for itself about the expectatations that Bioware's new direction has instilled in people. I thought DA was supposed to be gritty dark fantasy?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Corto81]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Did I say that? No. Simply that a lot of people were pre-biased against DA2 and pre-biased in favor of TW2.

Dude, I never played Witcher 1 and I awaited DA2 like the second coming of Michael Jordan after the awesomeness of Origins.

In short, Witcher 2 turned out to be nothing short of great.
DA2? Turned out to be bad. Not mediocre, not average. By MY standards (regardless of BW standards, which used to be high) it was a bad game, severely lacking in nearly every important area.