645 réponses à ce sujet

[Quercus]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...
 And DA2 was not a button masher, whereas TW2 was.

Try button mashing on hard and see what happens to you.

Try Button mashing on "normal" and see what happens to you.

Ok, now we just need someone who played it on easy, I wonder if you can button mash on that difficulty.

[Bryy_Miller]

Aargh12 wrote...

Persephone wrote..

12 year olds have no business playing a game that adresses issues such as rape, domestic violence, serial killers, sexual abuse, demonic possession etc. 

Yet 12 year olds like to see blood splattering all over their hero. And DA2 delivers that.

I would like to direct you to any number of TW2 threads where people are saying that the use of swear words and naming of genitalia makes the game more mature.

Let's not throw stones here. TW2 is just as immature as DA2 is.

@KnightofPhoenix: What? TW2 *was* a button masher. You needed to press attack each time you wanted to attack.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 23 mai 2011 - 09:18 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

In Exile wrote...

The problem for Bioware, in a nutshell, is that they're not actually writing a fixed protagonist - they're writing the exact same style of protagonist as they would in their silent VO games and then adding a voice. Hawke is, essentially, the Warden but with a more fixed personality. That's how Bioware defines their characters.

I'd also bet really good money that DA2 was supposed to be a bridge game initially in development (i.e. let`s flashback to why the world changed for DA:O2) that eventualy morphed into a full version game and "sequel'' (resource wise) later on.

The Witcher 2 also shines an action RPG. Dragon Age II on the other hand comes off as a party based CRPG wanting to be an action game. It's kind of tactical and kind of actiony but it doesn't really excel in either area. It's just mediocre all around. Things like the isometric camera were needlessly removed in some insane bid for change and the overall impression is confused to put it mildly. What does BioWare want to do with the Dragon Age franchise? I think they need to figure that out before going ahead with Dragon Age III. They need a clearer vision and this is by no means limited to the gameplay.

I don't think the Witcher shines as an action RPG so much as it shines as a challenging game and word of mouth becomes very positive for it as a result.

There are actually lots of changes from TW1 I think are steps back in combat (e.g. how stuns and 1-hit KOs work, the changed inventory system, inability to use potions everywhere) and mechanical faults with it (e.g. it isn't clear what range enemies have to damage, certain signs are exploits on lower difficulties, you can't actually use potions before certain bosses because of cooldowns during cutscenes and forced meditation in safe areas, meaning a spike in difficulty and need to exploit rolling). 

But it's challenging, and tactics are rewarded very strongly.

Take the monster hunting contract from Act I. You're supposed to hunt these insects and destory their nests to make the queens come out. Reading about it, losts of players dodge and hit-and-run.

I layed 26 traps (the bear-trap looking things you find around for free). I just run away from the queen and it died without me lifting a finger.

It makes you feel like a true Witcher. It makes preparation feel worthwhile.

More generally, CD Projekt didn't alienate fans in the way Bioware did (e.g. by designing a new enging versus just changing the visual style of the game wholesale).

I thought the WItcher was an solid game... but I personally prefer the Witcher 2 to DA:O.

Except that Hawke ends up being a fixed protagonist, because no matter what choices the player makes, it doesn't matter, the game plays out the same regardless.

TW2 on the other hand, your choices directly affect the story down to who lives, who dies, what quest lines you get etc.

[Addai]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
@KnightofPhoenix: What? TW2 *was* a button masher. You needed to press attack each time you wanted to attack.

Not to mention the UTE's where you're literally pushing the same button over and over.  Apparently this is supposed to be "interactive," just as having to click for every sword strike and roll around all the time to avoid insta-death is meant to be more exciting as opposed to tedious.  Add in animation lag and it feels like you might as well be pushing only one button, for all the response you get.  Die-reload-die-reload and on it goes.

DA2: Push a button and something goofy happens.
TW2: Push a button and something awkward happens.  Then you die.

[Dragoonlordz]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Aargh12 wrote...

Persephone wrote..

12 year olds have no business playing a game that adresses issues such as rape, domestic violence, serial killers, sexual abuse, demonic possession etc. 

Yet 12 year olds like to see blood splattering all over their hero. And DA2 delivers that.

I would like to direct you to any number of TW2 threads where people are saying that the use of swear words and naming of genitalia makes the game more mature.

Let's not throw stones here. TW2 is just as immature as DA2 is.

@KnightofPhoenix: What? TW2 *was* a button masher. You needed to press attack each time you wanted to attack.

The game is not immature, some players are this applies to both DA2 and TW2.

[Icinix]

What makes the combat in TW2 so good, is if you try to play it like you do a HUGE range of other games - it feels like a button masher. If you play it with applied logic, its fantastic.

The traps is a great example, the bombs are another one, particularly when you start using them with signs. Some awesome combinations that are so easy to do on the fly. Its possible to beat so much of the combat without even swinging your sword if you play it smart.  Throw in potions and you can dominate a battlefield in seconds.

Yeah, its got its flaws, but those flaws are so dwarfed by positives.  Its a game that treats players like they have a brain, like it knows that they're going to pay attention and use their noggin rather than have a their hands held for the journey.  Because of this, its not for everyone, and thats fair enough.  But by golly batman, I'm in total awe of it.

[tonnactus]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Except that Hawke ends up being a fixed protagonist, because no matter what choices the player makes, it doesn't matter, the game plays out the same regardless.

That is wrong.Either siding with mages and templars at the beginning of act 3 decides what sidequests you get.
One example.
Magistrate orders: Kill the son of the magistrate and the elf girl stays in the city and became part of the guard(otheriwse think all men are monsters and the father got out of the city).While these are for sure not big choices,they alter the game nonetheless.

[Icinix]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I would like to direct you to any number of TW2 threads where people are saying that the use of swear words and naming of genitalia makes the game more mature.

Let's not throw stones here. TW2 is just as immature as DA2 is.

Its not the language or sex that makes TW2 mature. Its the dealing of some very adult themes.  Its the fact right or wrong change depending on what side of the fence you sit.

I don't think mature is the right way to describe it...how about...The Witcher 2 is more for adults than DA2 is.

[In Exile]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...
 And DA2 was not a button masher, whereas TW2 was.

Try button mashing on hard and see what happens to you.

Hell, for that matter, try button mashing on normal against any half-decent crowd or monster.

[Addai]

Icinix wrote...
The traps is a great example, the bombs are another one, particularly when you start using them with signs. Some awesome combinations that are so easy to do on the fly. Its possible to beat so much of the combat without even swinging your sword if you play it smart.  Throw in potions and you can dominate a battlefield in seconds.

What's the difference between this and DA?  Granted, DA2 also got rid of some tactical flexibility by eliminating traps, stealth, and by taking away the iso camera.  At least you could still pause/play.  TW2 took away pause/play and the iso camera.  You had signs, bombs, potions and different blade preparations in TW1 too, you just didn't need them as much on lower difficulties- as was explained in the beginning of TW1.

Yeah, its got its flaws, but those flaws are so dwarfed by positives.  Its a game that treats players like they have a brain, like it knows that they're going to pay attention and use their noggin rather than have a their hands held for the journey.  Because of this, its not for everyone, and thats fair enough.  But by golly batman, I'm in total awe of it.

No, it rewards/punishes reflexes far more than brain power.  That's why it's a twitch game.  The positives are dwarfed by the big negative for me.  DA2 was disappointing, but it was at least playable.

Modifié par Addai67, 23 mai 2011 - 09:51 .

[Gavinthelocust]

Addai67 wrote...

Not to mention the UTE's where you're literally pushing the same button over and over.  Apparently this is supposed to be "interactive," just as having to click for every sword strike and roll around all the time to avoid insta-death is meant to be more exciting as opposed to tedious.  Add in animation lag and it feels like you might as well be pushing only one button, for all the response you get.  Die-reload-die-reload and on it goes.

DA2: Push a button and something goofy happens.
TW2: Push a button and something awkward happens.  Then you die.

It's a shame because I've been looking at the story and Witcher definitely has that down, but even with the small amount of time I've had with the game I can tell the gameplay was designed poorly. A game shouldn't be hard because of bad controls, Demon's Souls was hard but the controls were perfect so it was actually fisable to accomplish. TW2 had you laggingly roll around, hit someone, then get killed by someone behind you or a surprise counter instakill move that you have no chance to stop. Just playing the game makes me feel angry, but it's not Castlevania angry where when I won it felt great, it was the kind where I feel I just wasted my time.

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Except that Hawke ends up being a fixed protagonist, because no matter what choices the player makes, it doesn't matter, the game plays out the same regardless.

TW2 on the other hand, your choices directly affect the story down to who lives, who dies, what quest lines you get etc.

The fixed protagonist moniker (on this forum) was always used to refer to personality, not choices. This was back when we took it for granted DA2 would have them (whoops!).

Geralt is Geralt. It just happens to matter what Geralt does. Some of the time. Everything always boils down to the north in chaos and war with Nilfgaard, but the Witcher 2 makes it feel like you change the world in some small way along the way. Just like Witcher 1 does.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
You had signs, bombs, potions and different blade preparations in TW1 too, you just didn't need them as much on lower difficulties- as was explained in the beginning of TW1.

I played TW1 on the highest difficulty and I never used bombs, traps and used only 2 signs (aard and igni). Rarely used blade coating.

TW2 forced me to vary my gameplay style and be a lot more flexible. I use bombs, use all signs except 1 (igni) and traps occasionally (prefer Yrden personally).

It is challenging and I can understand some hating it, but for those who have the reflexes and quick thinking, it's enjoyable as hell.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 23 mai 2011 - 09:57 .

[In Exile]

tonnactus wrote...
That is wrong.Either siding with mages and templars at the beginning of act 3 decides what sidequests you get.
One example.
Magistrate orders: Kill the son of the magistrate and the elf girl stays in the city and became part of the guard(otheriwse think all men are monsters and the father got out of the city).While these are for sure not big choices,they alter the game nonetheless.

... I'm going to assume you've either not played Witcher 2 or this is a joke, becuase you get a totally different Act 2 depending on your choices in Act 1.

As in almost all your quests are different (something like 15 new and different quests?). You have a totally different party, you team up with different people, someone else dies instead of lives, etc. etc. etc.

Bioware's never done choice of that scope.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Gavinthelocust wrote...
 TW2 had you laggingly roll around, hit someone, then get killed by someone behind you or a surprise counter instakill move that you have no chance to stop.

You're responsable for not checking your flanks and blinding rushing to hit a foe.
Positioning is everything in this game. At least on hard.

[Icinix]

Addai67 wrote...

Icinix wrote...
The traps is a great example, the bombs are another one, particularly when you start using them with signs. Some awesome combinations that are so easy to do on the fly. Its possible to beat so much of the combat without even swinging your sword if you play it smart.  Throw in potions and you can dominate a battlefield in seconds.

What's the difference between this and DA?  Granted, DA2 also got rid of some tactical flexibility by eliminating traps, stealth, and by taking away the iso camera.  At least you could still pause/play.  TW2 took away pause/play and the iso camera.  You had signs, bombs, potions and different blade preparations in TW1 too, you just didn't need them as much on lower difficulties- as was explained in the beginning of TW1.

Never said the combat was bad in DA2..in fact I'm a huge fan of the combat in DA2 - I think its one of the few things they nearly got bang on perfect.
I was only responding to the comments that its a twitch, button mashing game - Such as below 

Yeah, its got its flaws, but those flaws are so dwarfed by positives.  Its a game that treats players like they have a brain, like it knows that they're going to pay attention and use their noggin rather than have a their hands held for the journey.  Because of this, its not for everyone, and thats fair enough.  But by golly batman, I'm in total awe of it.

No, it rewards/punishes reflexes far more than brain power.  That's why it's a twitch game.  The positives are dwarfed by the big negative for me.  DA2 was disappointing, but it was at least playable.

Like I said, if you plan ahead and think, you don't even need to swing your sword. Thats not a reflex game. Thats a thinking game, a game of chess..if you will. Besides, I  shoud have differentiated that comment, the brain power was in regards to the quests and storyline itself rather than the combat..but it can be applied to both.

[Merced652]

postin in a thread where you being bad at a video game means the game is bad.

[Luvinn]

You can pause/play on DA2 but its pretty useless to do so. My friend beat every non boss mob on hard just using the awesome button. I have it on PC, so i cant verify this

[In Exile]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
TW2 forced me to vary my gameplay style and be a lot more flexible. I use bombs, use all signs except 1 (igni) and traps occasionally (prefer Yrden personally).

It is challenging and I can understand some hating it, but for those who have the reflexes and quick thinking, it's enjoyable as hell.

Cheap as hell sometimes, though. Like when enemies stagger you to death. And sometimes you have to fight the camera.

It's rewarding, though. Setting up traps and then leading enemies there is great. Or if you're trying to build up your knowledge base to hunt a foe, instead of buying books, you can lay traps and a lure and then meditate, and you've built your knowledge in a way that makes you feel like a Witcher.

[88mphSlayer]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
You had signs, bombs, potions and different blade preparations in TW1 too, you just didn't need them as much on lower difficulties- as was explained in the beginning of TW1.

I played TW1 on the highest difficulty and I never used bombs, traps and used only 2 signs (aard and igni). Rarely used blade coating.

TW2 forced me to vary my gameplay style and be a lot more flexible. I use bombs, use all signs except 1 (igni) and traps occasionally (prefer Yrden personally).

It is challenging and I can understand some hating it, but for those who have the reflexes and quick thinking, it's enjoyable as hell.

yeah, on top of signs the swordplay requires actually paying attention to your surroundings, in the first game you could switch to group style and never have to worry about anybody flanking you

[Maria13]

Addai67 wrote...

Icinix wrote...
The traps is a great example, the bombs are another one, particularly when you start using them with signs. Some awesome combinations that are so easy to do on the fly. Its possible to beat so much of the combat without even swinging your sword if you play it smart.  Throw in potions and you can dominate a battlefield in seconds.

What's the difference between this and DA?  Granted, DA2 also got rid of some tactical flexibility by eliminating traps, stealth, and by taking away the iso camera.  At least you could still pause/play.  TW2 took away pause/play and the iso camera.  You had signs, bombs, potions and different blade preparations in TW1 too, you just didn't need them as much on lower difficulties- as was explained in the beginning of TW1.

Yeah, its got its flaws, but those flaws are so dwarfed by positives.  Its a game that treats players like they have a brain, like it knows that they're going to pay attention and use their noggin rather than have a their hands held for the journey.  Because of this, its not for everyone, and thats fair enough.  But by golly batman, I'm in total awe of it.

No, it rewards/punishes reflexes far more than brain power.  That's why it's a twitch game.  The positives are dwarfed by the big negative for me.  DA2 was disappointing, but it was at least playable.

I agree with a fair amount of this although I am enjoying TW2, I decided to knock everything down to easy and plugged in my gamepad. It is really a gamepad game and the fighting is much better with it.  I simply couldn't cope with the keyboard mouse.

[Gavinthelocust]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...
 TW2 had you laggingly roll around, hit someone, then get killed by someone behind you or a surprise counter instakill move that you have no chance to stop.

You're responsable for not checking your flanks and blinding rushing to hit a foe.
Positioning is everything in this game. At least on hard.

It gets a bit ridiculous when the great hero is hopping around occasionally hitting things continued by more hopping. Strategy is definitely key but if the controls have a lag to them when the enemies aren't designed for the lag it leads to a quick death followed by me chucking my friend's new pc out the window. But if you've managed to make it work than more power to ya, you've found fun in something I can't.

[In Exile]

Luvinn wrote...

You can pause/play on DA2 but its pretty useless to do so. My friend beat every non boss mob on hard just using the awesome button. I have it on PC, so i cant verify this

Only if you use tactics. Which I'd never do. You can't point & click on consoles so, really, pausing doesn't have anywhere as much value (and I have no idea how real-time DA:O played on consoles) .

I can say that at least on nightmare I needed to pause frequently... but I'd probably pause often on easy. That's just how I play.

[FieryDove]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

I don't see it as inconsistancies just as taking what was established in Awakening to the extreme. Remember: People do change over time.    

People do change, but not that much. (imho)

I think the warden commander was already abducted by aliens by the time the templar spies/give up cat problems occured. At least that's my guess.

on topic...sort of

Some people like TW2, some people like DA2, some like BOTH. Peace.

[tonnactus]

In Exile wrote...


... I'm going to assume you've either not played Witcher 2 or this is a joke, becuase you get a totally different Act 2 depending on your choices in Act 1.

Maybee you should read the post i responded too.I never claimed that the decisions in Da2 have the same weight as in the Witcher game.(neither did those in Origins by the way)

But some of them altered the game despite being minor changes.