645 réponses à ce sujet

[byzantine horse]

 Note that I haven't played TW2, but maybe the flak that DA2 get but TW2 doesn't get regarding similar/the same design decisions is because CDProjekt implemented said new decisions better than Bioware did? Just a hunch. I for one liked DA2 (well, most of it) and it was worth the money, but the changes from Origins could have been implemented better.

[upsettingshorts]

I'm in the "expectations and implementation" explanation camp, myself. Because no other explanation yet offered makes any sense to me whatsoever.

It made even less sense back when people were saying things like, "The voiced protagonist, action combat, and cinematic approach angers me I'm going to cancel my preorder and get TW2 instead" before Dragon Age 2 or The Witcher 2 was even released.  

It boggles, truly.  That being said, there are a host of people who dislike both games and are some of this forums most vocal critics of DA2.  It's only the people who are critical of precise features of DA2 that then go on to endorse another game with those same features that demand some kind of "What?" explanation.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 mai 2011 - 01:43 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Another explanation could be liking both systems (voiced / silent, cRPG / Action...etc), and wanting the Dragon Age franchise to maintain its "unique" characteristics, while still being able to enjoy games like ME or TW.

I personally would have preferred DA2 basing itself more on Origins, which I love. I also love ME1&2 and TW1&2. Ideally, I would have wanted a game library consisting of different types of RPGs. Instead, we are seeing a convergence of ideas / systems for the most part and when that happens, implementation and quality becomes even more important.

So I am in the "wanting the DA franchise to remain what it is" camp, but more so in the "implementation and quality" camp.In both criteria, DA2 fails badly imo.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 mai 2011 - 02:07 .

[Tripedius]

Better story, no reused locations, no compromises and it's a hard game so no catering to some crowd to sell better. Also a pc exclusive so that shows in graphics. Sure TW2 has it's faults, but DA2 is much, much worse. Finaly, some Polish company who releases their second game don't have a reputation to live up to. What makes DA2 so incredibly painfull is the fact that we all know BW could have made a much, much better game but they didn't (just look at the difference between ME2 and DA2)

[erynnar]

I guess I fall into the "what" category. Though my complaints have been that DA2 stripped what was great about DAO and worked and did a 180.

The plot holes drive me batty, the combat is a little too fast but I could live with it (and I hope that DA3 is a nice in between of DAO and DA2 hyper kenetic speed). I despise the waves (TW2 doesn't have endless waves of repeating enemies, nor do they parachute or teleport). No one exlodes in a fountain of blood to fall at my feet in puzzle pieces like a broken game of tetris. The graphics aren't anime, cartoony (no one carries a sword that looks like a big piece of unwieldy lumber).

As to the framed narrative and non-epic kill the big baddie and save the world story of Witcher2, well, that is what Witcher is. A game based on books that already have a set story. So yeah, the expectation is different. I didn't mind BioWare trying a more home grown story, but they gave three stories in a disjointed manner with loose, so very loose, ties. Hawke was just not a well enough written (set narrative character) to make the ties that bind stick.

I was surprised that I am not bothered as much by not being able to choose how I look, nor my gender, but I put that down to great writing (which BioWare has, they just flubbed this time). The story in Witcher 2 is so well implemented, so tight, so tied together, it makes it enjoyable and fun. Add to that my Geralt can make things change, in game. Hawke was a dishrag who had no control over anything except who to shag, and how her companions stayed or left.

What little of Geralt's story that is told in flashback is told well, and completely believeable because Geralt is telling the story. There is no confusion about is this how it happened. Again, I applaude BioWare for trying something new, but it was just too much with Varric telling the whole damn thing in flashback and left to wonder if any of it was real, let alone worth it.

I'm sure there's more, but I am at work and I keep getting interrupted, so there's some things which are food for thought. I still say, TW2 was true to its own predecessor and story, and was actually more of a successor to DAO than DA2 was. It was (depite lack of race, origin, appearence, or gender choice) more like DAO.

[erynnar]

Tripedius wrote...

Better story, no reused locations, no compromises and it's a hard game so no catering to some crowd to sell better. Also a pc exclusive so that shows in graphics. Sure TW2 has it's faults, but DA2 is much, much worse. Finaly, some Polish company who releases their second game don't have a reputation to live up to. What makes DA2 so incredibly painfull is the fact that we all know BW could have made a much, much better game but they didn't (just look at the difference between ME2 and DA2)

And there's this^.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Another explanation could be liking both systems (voiced / silent, cRPG / Action...etc), and wanting the Dragon Age franchise to maintain its "unique" characteristics, while still being able to enjoy games like ME or TW.

I personally would have preferred DA2 basing itself more on Origins, which I love. I also love ME1&2 and TW1&2. Ideally, I would have wanted a game library consisting of different types of RPGs. Instead, we are seeing a convergence of ideas / systems for the most part and when that happens, implementation and quality becomes even more important.

So I am in the "wanting the DA franchise to remain what it is" camp, but more so in the "implementation and quality" camp.In both criteria, DA2 fails badly imo.

LOL! And this too!

Modifié par erynnar, 25 mai 2011 - 02:50 .

[_Aine_]

I have sat and thought about DA2 (probably too often for my friends and family as I frequently quiz them on their opinions about games in general) and i finally came to this feeling that if I took away every detail I used to make a point of what I thought worked and didn't that I was left with one thing: Between DAO and DA2 - the MOOD changed. So, despite anything, it didn't feel "right". I say this as a person who played and at first was pretty upset at some things. Then I found ways to enjoy it "differently" and played it through several times. I probably will play it through several times again for that matter, because it is just what I do and I do like some aspects quite a bit. But I think there was something fundamentally different in the overall mood that made it feel like a discarding of what came before it. The witcher 2 seemed like an improvement but not a departure from the mood of its predecessor.

To some, it may be a slight thing. But I think it is one of those things that hits you somewhat subconsciously so it affects you and you just don't know why.

SOME of the changes I liked anyway. I enjoyed the skill trees much better for example, although I think a good part of the UI changes did not keep in mind the flavour and style of the predecessor so the two games did not come across as being of the same ilk. The UI in DA2 would fit very nicely in something like ME though, future-d up a bit Maybe it is because I come from a different design background where those subtle things mattered and were noticed. Maybe in games it doesn't. I would disagree however, but that is a personal opinion, I am aware of it.

Little things. So small. But they do count, to me.

Modifié par shantisands, 25 mai 2011 - 02:56 .

[In Exile]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Another explanation could be liking both systems (voiced / silent, cRPG / Action...etc), and wanting the Dragon Age franchise to maintain its "unique" characteristics, while still being able to enjoy games like ME or TW.

I think we shouldn't downplay pandering at this point. I've seen so many designed for PC first or really challenging gameplay comments that, honestly, I'm starting to wonder if some people have played the game. In selling DA2, Bioware really managed to ****** the fanbase off. Liking both systems goes under expectation, though. They expected DA2 and TW2 to be different games.

I played the hell out of the game for the last week or so, and at this point I can't help but the combat really, easy. The only difficultly left for me to try would be their insane mode, but I'm just not going to touch that die-and-lose-your-save feature.

Modifié par In Exile, 25 mai 2011 - 03:14 .

[RhythmlessNinja]

I just finished the TW2 myself, and honestly...DA2 does not even come remotely close to the quality of TW2. There were no similarities in the game besides the combat & still, even then done so very much better. After playing I can honestly say, I doubt another RPG will impress me very much for a long time. I could go into full detail about why this is, but I doubt anyone wants a wall of text to read. People can defend to the end trying to compare DA2 to TW2, but in all honesty arguing about these two games is totally pointless, as the witcher is a totally different game & in a league of its own. There is no argument to be had, what we can do...is hope bioware plays the witcher 2 & learns alot from it.

[Maria13]

shantisands wrote...

I have sat and thought about DA2 (probably too often for my friends and family as I frequently quiz them on their opinions about games in general) and i finally came to this feeling that if I took away every detail I used to make a point of what I thought worked and didn't that I was left with one thing: Between DAO and DA2 - the MOOD changed. So, despite anything, it didn't feel "right". I say this as a person who played and at first was pretty upset at some things. Then I found ways to enjoy it "differently" and played it through several times. I probably will play it through several times again for that matter, because it is just what I do and I do like some aspects quite a bit. But I think there was something fundamentally different in the overall mood that made it feel like a discarding of what came before it. The witcher 2 seemed like an improvement but not a departure from the mood of its predecessor.

To some, it may be a slight thing. But I think it is one of those things that hits you somewhat subconsciously so it affects you and you just don't know why.

SOME of the changes I liked anyway. I enjoyed the skill trees much better for example, although I think a good part of the UI changes did not keep in mind the flavour and style of the predecessor so the two games did not come across as being of the same ilk. The UI in DA2 would fit very nicely in something like ME though, future-d up a bit Maybe it is because I come from a different design background where those subtle things mattered and were noticed. Maybe in games it doesn't. I would disagree however, but that is a personal opinion, I am aware of it.

Little things. So small. But they do count, to me.

I like what you say about a change in mood, and I agree, difficult to define though that is.  I did not dislike DA2 as much as many here, but it just wasn't a patch on DA:O. Be it that the romances were poorer, the story less epic and/or weaker, the backdrops less detailed, Hawke less defined than the Warden, less 'mine'... It just failed to impress me as much as DA:O did or be as enjoyable as TW2.

[Maria13]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Another explanation could be liking both systems (voiced / silent, cRPG / Action...etc), and wanting the Dragon Age franchise to maintain its "unique" characteristics, while still being able to enjoy games like ME or TW.

I personally would have preferred DA2 basing itself more on Origins, which I love. I also love ME1&2 and TW1&2. Ideally, I would have wanted a game library consisting of different types of RPGs. Instead, we are seeing a convergence of ideas / systems for the most part and when that happens, implementation and quality becomes even more important.

So I am in the "wanting the DA franchise to remain what it is" camp, but more so in the "implementation and quality" camp.In both criteria, DA2 fails badly imo.

Well put.

[erynnar]

Maria13 wrote...

shantisands wrote...

I have sat and thought about DA2 (probably too often for my friends and family as I frequently quiz them on their opinions about games in general) and i finally came to this feeling that if I took away every detail I used to make a point of what I thought worked and didn't that I was left with one thing: Between DAO and DA2 - the MOOD changed. So, despite anything, it didn't feel "right". I say this as a person who played and at first was pretty upset at some things. Then I found ways to enjoy it "differently" and played it through several times. I probably will play it through several times again for that matter, because it is just what I do and I do like some aspects quite a bit. But I think there was something fundamentally different in the overall mood that made it feel like a discarding of what came before it. The witcher 2 seemed like an improvement but not a departure from the mood of its predecessor.

To some, it may be a slight thing. But I think it is one of those things that hits you somewhat subconsciously so it affects you and you just don't know why.

SOME of the changes I liked anyway. I enjoyed the skill trees much better for example, although I think a good part of the UI changes did not keep in mind the flavour and style of the predecessor so the two games did not come across as being of the same ilk. The UI in DA2 would fit very nicely in something like ME though, future-d up a bit Maybe it is because I come from a different design background where those subtle things mattered and were noticed. Maybe in games it doesn't. I would disagree however, but that is a personal opinion, I am aware of it.

Little things. So small. But they do count, to me.

I like what you say about a change in mood, and I agree, difficult to define though that is.  I did not dislike DA2 as much as many here, but it just wasn't a patch on DA:O. Be it that the romances were poorer, the story less epic and/or weaker, the backdrops less detailed, Hawke less defined than the Warden, less 'mine'... It just failed to impress me as much as DA:O did or be as enjoyable as TW2.

I agree with both of you! And Shanti, that something I have been trying to put my finger on! I knew there was something else, something, subliminal, if you will. And you just nailed it for me (hehe, nailed...oh you cheeky monkey)--it's mood. The mood is so different from DAO. And the mood in DA2 is so...bipolar? It has this happy anime, cartoony  arcade going on in art and the relationships, but it is suposed to have dark, edgier adult  themes. It is as if there are two different moods vying for my attention. One adult and mature, the other more like tweens humor and maturity humor mood.

DAO had pain, sorrow, loss, anger, dark and edgy, along with light hearted moments. But those moments of humor were still...adult? Keeping with the darker themes still going on, if that makes any sense.

[KnightofPhoenix]

erynnar wrote...
And the mood in DA2 is so...bipolar? It has this happy anime, cartoony  arcade going on in art and the relationships, but it is suposed to have dark, edgier adult  themes. It is as if there are two different moods vying for my attention. One adult and mature, the other more like tweens humor and maturity humor mood.

The ridiculous amount of gore is also cartoony and childish and not dark.

I personally think that a big problem with DA2 vis-a-vis story, implementation, combat, art style, structure of the plot, themes, in other words everything, is that it doesn't know what it wants to be.
Or it tried to be a game of mass appeal by doing everything. 

Which it may have done, but mediocrily. You know what they say about trying to make everyone happy.

[Zjarcal]

erynnar wrote...
It has this happy anime, cartoony  arcade going on in art and the relationships, but it is suposed to have dark, edgier adult  themes. It is as if there are two different moods vying for my attention. One adult and mature, the other more like tweens humor and maturity humor mood.

The relationships were cartoony?

DAO had pain, sorrow, loss, anger, dark and edgy, along with light hearted moments. But those moments of humor were still...adult? Keeping with the darker themes still going on, if that makes any sense.

So did DA2, and I felt that it was handled just as well as in Origins.

I will agree that things like animations and excessive gore do feel more cartoony.

[Corto81]

[quote]Zjarcal wrote...


DAO had pain, sorrow, loss, anger, dark and edgy, along with light hearted moments. But those moments of humor were still...adult? Keeping with the darker themes still going on, if that makes any sense.[/quote]

So did DA2, and I felt that it was handled just as well as in Origins.
[quote]



I'm happy for you, but it does appear that people who felt emotionally involved in DA2 are in the minority.
Certainly when compared to DA:O.

Personally, I didn't get involved at all.
The characters (most of them) were non-believable, single-minded, immature and I never felt I got to know any of them. What's worse, you're stuck with some of them because the plot says so.

You can talk to them when they want about stuff they want you to fetch/kill.
I couldn't connect that way to any one of them...

They feel like everything else in DA2 - a world set for you to quest in and gain levels...
Not a world (unlike DA:O or TW2) that exist and you happen to be there and the world reacts to you and you react to it.

Modifié par Corto81, 25 mai 2011 - 04:39 .

[erynnar]

Zjarcal wrote...

erynnar wrote...
It has this happy anime, cartoony  arcade going on in art and the relationships, but it is suposed to have dark, edgier adult  themes. It is as if there are two different moods vying for my attention. One adult and mature, the other more like tweens humor and maturity humor mood.

The relationships were cartoony?

DAO had pain, sorrow, loss, anger, dark and edgy, along with light hearted moments. But those moments of humor were still...adult? Keeping with the darker themes still going on, if that makes any sense.

So did DA2, and I felt that it was handled just as well as in Origins.

I will agree that things like animations and excessive gore do feel more cartoony.

I said that DA2 had dark, edgy, adult themes too, but it has this cartoony, shallow, mood that also goes with it and the cartoony art style (gore and exploding enemies which I forgot) don't help that dark adult themed mood we are supposed to get.

Oh and relationships...I want a sandwich?  I don't ever want you to leave?  I don't know if it's the line, or the way it was delivered or both. But those are just two examples. So, yeah a little on the tween or Harlequin romance side. Not all, or all lines but yeah. Or Fenris and my Hawke having sex one night and for three years nothing, but a red pair of undies on his arm and the Amell crest on his belt. If I have another relationship it's quits? Unless said boinking is a one night stand only. But my Hawke is supposed to pine for 3 years otherwise?  Other characters like Merrill become so clingy and move in right away. Anders is the male version of that. 

Or maybe like all the other things, those would have been less silly mood if they'd had more time? Dunno, seemed to go with the new audience they were going for, rather than the one they had. DAO had it's silly relationship moments too, and could have been handled better in some ways, but it still did better (again) than DA2. 

[rak72]

^^
don't forget, your pretty hot for a demon right after Anders kills Karl. *face palm*

And "what about love"? which always gets the song by "Heart" stuck in my head.

Modifié par rak72, 25 mai 2011 - 04:51 .

[erynnar]

[quote]Corto81 wrote...

[quote]Zjarcal wrote...


DAO had pain, sorrow, loss, anger, dark and edgy, along with light hearted moments. But those moments of humor were still...adult? Keeping with the darker themes still going on, if that makes any sense.[/quote]

So did DA2, and I felt that it was handled just as well as in Origins.
[quote]



I'm happy for you, but it does appear that people who felt emotionally involved in DA2 are in the minority.
Certainly when compared to DA:O.

Personally, I didn't get involved at all.
The characters (most of them) were non-believable, single-minded, immature and I never felt I got to know any of them. What's worse, you're stuck with some of them because the plot says so.

You can talk to them when they want about stuff they want you to fetch/kill.
I couldn't connect that way to any one of them...

They feel like everything else in DA2 - a world set for you to quest in and gain levels...
Not a world (unlike DA:O or TW2) that exist and you happen to be there and the world reacts to you and you react to it.





[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't get as emotionally involved this time. Don't get me wrong. Companions are still one of BioWare's strong suit. I loved all of them, save the fake Anders. They did get a little over the top in their moods...broody, whiny, judgemental, clingy. But they were funny and enjoyable too. Again, they seemed to be made over the top a little for the audience they were going for. And talking to them only when they needed me for something not exactly condusive to bonding with them. Could they, like the game itself, have used more time? Yes, yes it could have.

[AngryFrozenWater]

shantisands wrote...

I have sat and thought about DA2 (probably too often for my friends and family as I frequently quiz them on their opinions about games in general) and i finally came to this feeling that if I took away every detail I used to make a point of what I thought worked and didn't that I was left with one thing: Between DAO and DA2 - the MOOD changed. So, despite anything, it didn't feel "right". I say this as a person who played and at first was pretty upset at some things. Then I found ways to enjoy it "differently" and played it through several times. I probably will play it through several times again for that matter, because it is just what I do and I do like some aspects quite a bit. But I think there was something fundamentally different in the overall mood that made it feel like a discarding of what came before it. The witcher 2 seemed like an improvement but not a departure from the mood of its predecessor.

To some, it may be a slight thing. But I think it is one of those things that hits you somewhat subconsciously so it affects you and you just don't know why.

SOME of the changes I liked anyway. I enjoyed the skill trees much better for example, although I think a good part of the UI changes did not keep in mind the flavour and style of the predecessor so the two games did not come across as being of the same ilk. The UI in DA2 would fit very nicely in something like ME though, future-d up a bit Maybe it is because I come from a different design background where those subtle things mattered and were noticed. Maybe in games it doesn't. I would disagree however, but that is a personal opinion, I am aware of it.

Little things. So small. But they do count, to me.

Uh, oh. My reply may be a bit abstract. Here we go...

Your post is very well written. I agree with it. It brings me closer to figure out what I miss in DA2 (love, attention, detail). DA:O felt different indeed and it probably has something to do with that. You describe it like "the mood has changed". In TW2 it looks like the devs wanted to make up for the EE affair and added some more love, attention, and detail. And because the mood and feeling were still there the experience improved.

I feel this is important, because TW2 isn't a perfect game, but because it feels good I give the game more credit and can overlook more; and because DA2 lost in all that I look more critical at it.

Does that make sense?

[Blastback]

Maria13 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Another explanation could be liking both systems (voiced / silent, cRPG / Action...etc), and wanting the Dragon Age franchise to maintain its "unique" characteristics, while still being able to enjoy games like ME or TW.

I personally would have preferred DA2 basing itself more on Origins, which I love. I also love ME1&2 and TW1&2. Ideally, I would have wanted a game library consisting of different types of RPGs. Instead, we are seeing a convergence of ideas / systems for the most part and when that happens, implementation and quality becomes even more important.

So I am in the "wanting the DA franchise to remain what it is" camp, but more so in the "implementation and quality" camp.In both criteria, DA2 fails badly imo.

Well put.

Thirded.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'm in the "expectations and implementation" explanation camp, myself. Because no other explanation yet offered makes any sense to me whatsoever.

It made even less sense back when people were saying things like, "The voiced protagonist, action combat, and cinematic approach angers me I'm going to cancel my preorder and get TW2 instead" before Dragon Age 2 or The Witcher 2 was even released.  

It boggles, truly.  That being said, there are a host of people who dislike both games and are some of this forums most vocal critics of DA2.  It's only the people who are critical of precise features of DA2 that then go on to endorse another game with those same features that demand some kind of "What?" explanation.

I believe it had more to due with the removal of things like a tactical camera, lack of  friendly fire on anything but nightmare, and that they stripped out a portion of customization across the board for a "static" companion "look" that only those who defended DA2 left and right, wanted. I mean you only control Geralt obviously in TW2, yet he has far more customization options when it comes to looks/gear and the character or the story doesn't suffer because of it.

Personally I don't mind VO if it doesn't end up heavily feeling like you're limiting dialog, unfortunately DA2 to me felt very limited in the sense that your choices barely affect anything during the plot at all, cept now the player's dialog options essentially consist of snarky one liners, for 99.9% of the game.

[upsettingshorts]

Those issues don't directly correlate to features contained in TW2 though, and therefore aren't really what I was talking about there.

There's plenty of criticisms that don't really require additional explanation.

The one-liner thing is a new critique to me.  It's valid, but it was pretty much the same in DAO and a lot of BioWare games though.  It's not like we've had paragraph-length responses since, what, Baldur's Gate 2?  NWN?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 mai 2011 - 06:50 .

[fightright2]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Another explanation could be
liking both systems (voiced / silent, cRPG / Action...etc), and wanting
the Dragon Age franchise to maintain its "unique" characteristics, while
still being able to enjoy games like ME or TW.

I personally
would have preferred DA2 basing itself more on Origins, which I love. I
also love ME1&2 and TW1&2. Ideally, I would have wanted a game
library consisting of different types of RPGs. Instead, we are seeing a
convergence of ideas / systems for the most part and when that happens,
implementation and quality becomes even more important.

So I am
in the "wanting the DA franchise to remain what it is" camp, but more so
in the "implementation and quality" camp.In both criteria, DA2 fails
badly imo.

This^^ exactly.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

erynnar wrote...
And the mood in DA2 is so...bipolar? It has this happy anime, cartoony  arcade going on in art and the relationships, but it is suposed to have dark, edgier adult  themes. It is as if there are two different moods vying for my attention. One adult and mature, the other more like tweens humor and maturity humor mood.

The ridiculous amount of gore is also cartoony and childish and not dark.

I personally think that a big problem with DA2 vis-a-vis story, implementation, combat, art style, structure of the plot, themes, in other words everything, is that it doesn't know what it wants to be.
Or it tried to be a game of mass appeal by doing everything. 

Which it may have done, but mediocrily. You know what they say about trying to make everyone happy.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that. I really believe that they went so far out to be unique and yet tried to please everyone that it choked itself on it.

Now the question for me is: Was it the "meet the deadline rush" or the "wearing too many hats" the blame/cause of the failure of DA2? I always wondered about that.

If they had more time to develop a game that tried to wear too many hats, would it have still been unsuccessful?

I have oftened wondered if they knew ahead of time how long they had to develop the game or whether they were under the impression they were going to get to take a lot more time than they had and just got surprised with a shorter deadline in the middle of all their new ideas.
Because they apparently had so many ideas for the game that you can see they tried to implement them all but never got them to fruition.
 

[tallon1982]

I can see the similarities between the two games in the concept such as the three acts for example. The thing is TW2 had a lot more time to develop and I think that is what made it seem like the better game. The other thing is The Witcher has an established lore so to speak whereas with Dragon Age it's being built still. Why does this matter? Well when you have established lore you have more of a map to go off of and what expectations there are amongst the fan base. With Dragon Age it still seems to be finding it's niche. Origins was going in the right direction and the prequel novels helped give some background as well which is what made me enjoy the game more. I was sort of expecting the same depth of story and characters in DA2 but it seemed to fall short. What I think caused this was the rushing of the game itself to help ride the wave of the popularity of DAO and trying to do too many things at once to 'improve' upon Origins.

Can Bioware take away some ideas from TW2? Sure why not? It's done all the time. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. I think there is much to learn from the experience of DA2. I believe most of us would like to see the choices we make matter and influence the game more as well as a storyline that flows rather than feel choppy. If it takes longer to make a game so be it. It took TW2 four years to come out? Quality over quantity. DA2 was a pretty decent game but it's overshadowed by DAO and TW2 in my opinion.

[In Exile]

rak72 wrote...

^^
don't forget, your pretty hot for a demon right after Anders kills Karl. *face palm*

And "what about love"? which always gets the song by "Heart" stuck in my head.

Why would you flirt with Anders if you were weirded out by his murder?