645 réponses à ce sujet

[Corto81]

gotthammer wrote...
There isn't one, I think. The closest thing is the ability to skip cutscenes. (Right Mouse Button a couple of times)
There is a version which is 'edited', tho', but I don't know the extent of the censorship (the Aussie version, I think)

I don't even get what's there to edit or skip.

Nudity is not "bad". Sex is not "bad".
You only see breasts and bottoms, nothing else.
Game's rated 18+.
Most people don't have an issue with seeing breasts at 18, so why censor it???
By default, children shouldn't be playing it anyway.


Why is there a problem with grim settings RPGs having sex and violence when the age was about sex and violence?

And more importantly, why is there a problem with soft sex scenes when there are people in these games (DA2 included)  getting mutilated, beheaded, brutally tortured and murdered, etc....

Just seems out of whack to me.

[gotthammer]

Hey, don't look at me. I'm just stating facts.
As for the censorship in the Aussie version, I think it has something to do w/ their laws. (no R18 rating for games, I think...so anything that's for 18+ gets censored, or something like that. Ask an Aussie or google it)

Hehehe. Compared to stuff on HBO, the stuff in The Witcher 2 is kinda 'tame' (look at the last few episodes of 'Game of Thrones'. Great series, but I think they're kinda 'overdoing' the sex, at times lol)

as for the forums being down:
Yeah, that kinda sucks. On the other hand, their sister company's forums for TW2 ( http://www.gog.com/e.../the_witcher_2/ ) is quite active (and some folks from CDPR have posted there, too).
I dunno why they just linked to that one for the time being...
(and they are updating the 'community' page on the official site: I think they just added a link to the 'nexus' site for mods. Why they haven't linked the gog.com forum, I don't know... *shrugs* )

[Unichrone]

Elhanan wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

They really don't, though. There is nudity, and there is sex, but neither game is focused on either. The game's stories are not about Geralt going around having sex with as many women as possible. They aren't dating sims, and they aren't porn. There are no sex minigames, which mind you some games have had, but weren't labelled as being "focused" on sex. If anyone is inflating an issue, it's you regarding sexuality in The Witcher series.

Yet what I read occasionally posted for both games are the sex or nude related scenes. The difference is that the DA postings require mods or adolescent minded camera angles, while the TW games are more available, as it is set with a Toggle.

Yet this is not the sole reason I choose to spend my funds elsewhere; just a single factor in the product. As mentioned, there may be a Toggle for those mature enough to use it; same cannot be said for frequent profanity, and I have even less patience here.

While I am not holding myself as any kind of standard for others, to maintain my own character, I prefer to avoid it. And based on the somewhat frequent upper case numeral postings seen here  on the Forums, perhaps more should consider avoiding it, too.

The banter between Varric and Isabela, aside from being embarassingly contrived and infantile, is more vulgar than anything in TW2.  

[Chromie]

Unichrone wrote...
The banter between Varric and Isabela, aside from being embarassingly contrived and infantile, is more vulgar than anything in TW2.  

Well clearly Elnahan think's DA2 is somehow is with out flaws :sick::sick:

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ringo12 wrote...

Unichrone wrote...
The banter between Varric and Isabela, aside from being embarassingly contrived and infantile, is more vulgar than anything in TW2.

Well clearly Elnahan think's DA2 is somehow is with out flaws {smilie}{smilie}{smilie}{smilie}

Or the dirty carvings Isabela is supposed to have drawn in Hawke's estate.

And yea, I absolutely hate the fact that my Hawke just allows his "friends" to barge in his home with no permission (I don't mind Varric and Aveline doing that) and then vandalize it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 mai 2011 - 01:58 .

[Chromie]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Or the dirty carvings Isabela is supposed to have drawn in Hawke's estate.

And yea, I absolutely hate the fact that my Hawke just allows his "friends" to barge in his home with no permission (I don't mind Varric and Aveline doing that) and then vandalize it.

Should seriously be allowed to kick her @** for that.

[Elhanan]

marshalleck wrote...

Profanity is your own deal. There's a fair amount, sure, but it's not just there for no reason. Or, rarely in that sense at least. If you can't handle soldiers talking like soldiers--which means some pretty crude language at times--then that's your deal, and your right. In my opinion it would be a shame to miss out on excellent films or miniseries like Band of Brothers or Saving Private Ryan just because some soldiers have foul mouths, but it's up to you. I would characterize the profanity in TW2 very much the same--it's part of the context and the setting, it makes sense, it's not just there to thrill children ("oooh he said a dirty word!"). Just don't go pretending like you know what you're missing out on. Oh and weak dig at maturity there, with the comment about choosing to use a toggle or not. Just because someone may not choose to use a nudity toggle (I don't think TW2 has a toggle? I haven't seen it...) doesn't mean they're immature.

As opposed to nudity, sex, violence, and game mechanics? They are all My Deal; my opinions, and I prefer to game elsewhere.

Pls do not begin to lecture someone about their possible lack of tolerance without knowledge, Francis. I served 7 yrs in the USNG as enlisted, and finished as an E-6. Yes; there was pervasive profanity; even tainted my own language from being 'immersed' into it, and is a major factor in why I dislike it now. That said, the inclusion of profanity is not needed to give military films realism; events like the release of Jewish concentration prisoners in BoB did that just fine.

Again, by placing focus on the story, and not on the predisposition for swearing, nudity, sex, and the tedium of daily life is make makes materials mature.

[Elhanan]

Corto81 wrote...

I don't even get what's there to edit or skip.

Nudity is not "bad". Sex is not "bad".
You only see breasts and bottoms, nothing else.
Game's rated 18+.
Most people don't have an issue with seeing breasts at 18, so why censor it???
By default, children shouldn't be playing it anyway.

Why is there a problem with grim settings RPGs having sex and violence when the age was about sex and violence?

And more importantly, why is there a problem with soft sex scenes when there are people in these games (DA2 included)  getting mutilated, beheaded, brutally tortured and murdered, etc....

Just seems out of whack to me.

As this post is fairly typical of those that support the inclusion of so-called adult materials, I simply wanted to point out that your vision does not equate to everyones.

Nudity and sex are not bad as a rule; can be if mishandled, and both are meant to be intimate, and not simply used as fodder for the entertainment industry.

Game labels may help informed shoppers; does little to nothing about those Don't Get It despite age.

And violence is often misused, too. Piling dung on top of more dung may feed the roses, but it certainly does not help them smell like flowers.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elhanan wrote...
Again, by placing focus on the story, and not on the predisposition for swearing, nudity, sex, and the tedium of daily life is make makes materials mature.

And TW2's story is very well done. For  me, it easily surpasses DA2's story which I consider to be a debacle.
And politics wise, TW2 is much more mature than DA2 can dream of being.

To think that sex, nudity and swearing necessarily has any bearing on the complexity and maturity of a story (both positive and negative) is a false dichotomy.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 mai 2011 - 03:14 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elhanan wrote...
And violence is often misused, too. Piling dung on top of more dung may feed the roses, but it certainly does not help them smell like flowers.

Don't you mind that Hawke essentially becomes a mass killer who constantly keeps killing waves upon waves upon waves of enemies, ultimately reaching a body count of thousands? When compared to how useless he is in things other than killing?

Is that violence used well?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 mai 2011 - 03:16 .

[TEWR]

Unichrone wrote...

The banter between Varric and Isabela, aside from being embarassingly contrived and infantile, is more vulgar than anything in TW2.  

Well Isabela is a vulgar person

[Elhanan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Unichrone wrote...
The banter between Varric and Isabela, aside from being embarassingly contrived and infantile, is more vulgar than anything in TW2.

Well clearly Elnahan think's DA2 is somehow is with out flaws {smilie}{smilie}{smilie}{smilie}

Or the dirty carvings Isabela is supposed to have drawn in Hawke's estate.

And yea, I absolutely hate the fact that my Hawke just allows his "friends" to barge in his home with no permission (I don't mind Varric and Aveline doing that) and then vandalize it.

I also disliked the extended use of profanity and vulgarity seen in DA2; a factor in rating it lower than earlier games. But I handled it as much as I would in life; did not associate with Isabella much past her quests. This also cuts out much of Varric's lesser choice of speech. 

And at least I attempt to think....

Hawke's friends might have done their vandalism when they helped move the family into the estate. I know I wasn't going to carry all that....

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Elhanan wrote...
And violence is often misused, too. Piling dung on top of more dung may feed the roses, but it certainly does not help them smell like flowers.

Don't you mind that Hawke essentially becomes a mass killer who constantly keeps killing waves upon waves upon waves of enemies, ultimately reaching a body count of thousands? When compared to how useless he is in things other than killing?

Is that violence used well?

I for one don't mind that and I do think that thousands is highly exaggerated. If I'm attacked by thugs in an RPG, I kill them. 

I do not mind nudity in games. TW2 does it well for the most part. Even though the elven garden scene wasn't half as amazing as I'd hoped. I also don't mind swearing in either game.

I like both game's stories very much, even though DAII's Act III could have been done better. A debacle? Never play any of what passes for an "adventure game" these days, KOP. Adventures SUPPOSEDLY build on their stories. Just look at "Belief and Betrayal".......DAII is Shakespeare compared to that trash.

[Elhanan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And TW2's story is very well done. For  me, it easily surpasses DA2's story which I consider to be a debacle.
And politics wise, TW2 is much more mature than DA2 can dream of being.

To think that sex, nudity and swearing necessarily has any bearing on the complexity and maturity of a story (both positive and negative) is a false dichotomy.

The inclusion of such material may or may not have direct bearing on the material, but I doubt strongly that doing so does anything to improve the politics and the story.

Have fun killing the Squirrels! *not going to get old for some time*

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
I for one don't mind that and I do think that thousands is highly exaggerated. If I'm attacked by thugs in an RPG, I kill them.

But when you are spending hours killing waves and waves and waves of thugs who materialize literally from thin air, I think you have a problem.

A debacle? Never play any of what passes for an "adventure game" these days, KOP. Adventures SUPPOSEDLY build on their stories. Just look at "Belief and Betrayal".......DAII is Shakespeare compared to that trash.

Yea I am pretty sure the feces of pigs smells worse than the feces of humans. Doesn't make the feces of humans that much mroe pleasant.

Exagerration, but if I have to compare DA2 to trash for me to enjoy it, then here also you have a problem. As an RPG, specifically an RPG made by Bioware, I will only compare it to RPGs that DA2 aspired to be like or be on the same caliber as. And on that basis, I cannot but consider the story as a debacle.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 mai 2011 - 03:33 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elhanan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And TW2's story is very well done. For  me, it easily surpasses DA2's story which I consider to be a debacle.
And politics wise, TW2 is much more mature than DA2 can dream of being.

To think that sex, nudity and swearing necessarily has any bearing on the complexity and maturity of a story (both positive and negative) is a false dichotomy.

The inclusion of such material may or may not have direct bearing on the material, but I doubt strongly that doing so does anything to improve the politics and the story.

It may not improve it, but it does not weaken it either.
And ultimately, only those who played the game can know how the story is.

And the story with the Squirrels that you like to mock that much is infintely better than the idiotic idol, transformer statues with flamethrowers, and soul edge to be blunt. 

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

A debacle? Never play any of what passes for an "adventure game" these days, KOP. Adventures SUPPOSEDLY build on their stories. Just look at "Belief and Betrayal".......DAII is Shakespeare compared to that trash.

Yea I am pretty sure the feces of pigs smells worse than the feces of humans. Doesn't make the feces of humans that much mroe pleasant.

Exagerration, but if I have to comapre DA2 to trash for me to enjoy it, then here also you have a problem. As an RPG, specifically an RPG made by Bioware, I will only compare it to RPGs that DA2 aspired to be like or be on the same caliber. And on that basis, I cannot but consider the story as a debacle.

I believe this is where we agree to disagree and part ways, KOP. (On the discussion, not in general) I care about DAII and its characters&story and you despise it. Let's...leave it at that. At least we agree when it comes to TW2.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
I believe this is where we agree to disagree and part ways, KOP. (On the discussion, not in general)

Whew, you had me worried there

 I care about DAII and its characters&story and you despise it. Let's...leave it at that. At least we agree when it comes to TW2.

Just out of curiosity. Be honest. Which story you think was better, in terms of writing and presentation? DA2 or TW2?
Of course both have their pros and cons, but in general lookign back at both, which did you feel was more mature and well-written?

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And TW2's story is very well done. For  me, it easily surpasses DA2's story which I consider to be a debacle.
And politics wise, TW2 is much more mature than DA2 can dream of being.

To think that sex, nudity and swearing necessarily has any bearing on the complexity and maturity of a story (both positive and negative) is a false dichotomy.

The inclusion of such material may or may not have direct bearing on the material, but I doubt strongly that doing so does anything to improve the politics and the story.

It may not improve it, but it does not weaken it either.
And ultimately, only those who played the game can know how the story is.

And the story with the Squirrels that you like to mock that much is infintely better than the idiotic idol, transformer statues with flamethrowers, and soul edge to be blunt. 

How about NOT mocking either game and treating each material, game, discussion like the smart people I know you both are? Why this "My game is better than yours!" mentality? Can't both be enjoyed for different reasons? And if you can't, can't you at least respect each other's opinions?

Modifié par Persephone, 30 mai 2011 - 03:36 .

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
I believe this is where we agree to disagree and part ways, KOP. (On the discussion, not in general)

Whew, you had me worried there

 I care about DAII and its characters&story and you despise it. Let's...leave it at that. At least we agree when it comes to TW2.

Just out of curiosity. Be honest. Which story you think was better, in terms of writing and presentation? DA2 or TW2?
Of course both have their pros and cons, but in general lookign back at both, which did you feel was more mature and well-written?

TW2. Without a doubt. When it comes to an overarching plot with choices & consequences, TW2 wins.

DAII had relationships, personal tragedy and it hit closer to home. But writing wise TW2 wins without a doubt.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And TW2's story is very well done. For  me, it easily surpasses DA2's story which I consider to be a debacle.
And politics wise, TW2 is much more mature than DA2 can dream of being.

To think that sex, nudity and swearing necessarily has any bearing on the complexity and maturity of a story (both positive and negative) is a false dichotomy.

The inclusion of such material may or may not have direct bearing on the material, but I doubt strongly that doing so does anything to improve the politics and the story.

It may not improve it, but it does not weaken it either.
And ultimately, only those who played the game can know how the story is.

And the story with the Squirrels that you like to mock that much is infintely better than the idiotic idol, transformer statues with flamethrowers, and soul edge to be blunt. 

How about NOT mocking either game and treating each material, game, discussion like the smart people I know you both are? Why this "My game is better than yours!" mentality? Can't both be enjoyed for different reasons? And if you can't, can't you at least respect each other's opinions?

You can certainly enjoy both, but I really can't look at the "climax" of Act 3 and either not chuckle or facepalm.  If that's considered mocking, then yes I am mocking (the game, not anyone).

The differences is, my mockery has substance. And is based on me actually playing the game. 

And I am not disrepecting his opinion at all. I am questionig what he is basing it on rather.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And TW2's story is very well done. For  me, it easily surpasses DA2's story which I consider to be a debacle.
And politics wise, TW2 is much more mature than DA2 can dream of being.

To think that sex, nudity and swearing necessarily has any bearing on the complexity and maturity of a story (both positive and negative) is a false dichotomy.

The inclusion of such material may or may not have direct bearing on the material, but I doubt strongly that doing so does anything to improve the politics and the story.

It may not improve it, but it does not weaken it either.
And ultimately, only those who played the game can know how the story is.

And the story with the Squirrels that you like to mock that much is infintely better than the idiotic idol, transformer statues with flamethrowers, and soul edge to be blunt. 

How about NOT mocking either game and treating each material, game, discussion like the smart people I know you both are? Why this "My game is better than yours!" mentality? Can't both be enjoyed for different reasons? And if you can't, can't you at least respect each other's opinions?

You can certainly enjoy both, but I really can't look at the "climax" of Act 3 and either not chuckle or facepalm.  If that's considered mocking, then yes I am mocking (the game, not anyone).

The differences is, my mockery has substance. And is based on me actually playing the game. 

And I am not disrepecting his opinion at all. I am questionig what he is basing it on rather.

I certainly agree that the climax could have been better WITHOUT the idol. How Meredith switched from a zealot (I loved her "If you cannot show me another way, do NOT brand me a tyrant!" line) with occasional flashes of sympathy to an utter nutcase within an hour REALLY wasn't done well. Same goes for Orsino whom I originally had much sympathy for.

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Persephone.
So we're in agreement, except that I dislike DA2 and you don't. Which is perfectly fine.

Alistairlover94 wrote...

@Knight: I generally felt TW2 had a much more mature tone, politics and racism were handled much better, actual consequences to your actions, a coherent storyline, better cliff-hanger ending, better antagonist(who was actually present throughout the game, instead of sone damned Idol), and a much more compelling narrative.

One thing that I've been thinking about in terms of politics in Bioware games when compared to TW2, and why I think the former cannot compare.

Bioware games are generally too bipolar. As in they ultimately end up with two sides. Some are built up well. Some are built up extremily poorly (like DA2). But ultimately, you really had only 2 factions (maybe a minor third as well at best) at play and the PC was in between. Off the top of my head, Mass Effect 1 might have been slightly different vis-a-vis human / council relations in that you had several alternatives. But I can't really think of a better example, not even Origins (though it's much better than DA2 for me).

And this is the case for both minor and major plots. For instance, Freyr vs Chundaar or Bhelen vs Harrowmont.
That is not to say that bipolarity is impossible to have. Sometimes some issues can be narrowed down to two factions. But for the most part, politics is much more complicated than this.

In TW2 however (spoilers!)


you had several factions at play. You had Redenia and Radovid. You had Kaedwen and Henselt (Dethmold as well). You had Vergen / Saskia. You had constable Natalis of Temeria and its nobility (mostly La Valette that Geralt deals with). You had the mages aspiring to rebuild the conclave. You had the Lodge. You had the assassins. And you had Nilfgaard.

All those factions bound in a web of intrigue, political and diplomatic relations (and of course backstabbing) coupled with secretive conspiracies, almost flawlessly.  That's how real and mature politics are.

Most certainly not the rail roading we got in DA2 at the very end, only to turn both factions into insane lunatics by unknown outside forces.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 mai 2011 - 03:57 .