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[Valcutio]

It's funny that this thread hasn't been locked yet. Every time I turn around I read a thread that gets locked because the original post doesn't contribute to a constructive conversation or some such nonsense.

And then we have this thread. Go figure.

[John Epler]

Valcutio wrote...

It's funny that this thread hasn't been locked yet. Every time I turn around I read a thread that gets locked because the original post doesn't contribute to a constructive conversation or some such nonsense.

And then we have this thread. Go figure.

Going by the less-than-complimentary tone of the OP, I think that this may be a poor place to make the 'BioWare is censoring us' point.

I left it open because, by the time I saw it, it contained discussion. I try not to shut down threads that involve actual discussion.

[LPPrince]

Ooh, nice sig John.

[In Exile]

mrcrusty wrote...

Yeah, I did find that part annoying. But it auto saved in each section and they weren't long.

But they forced you to use non-Geralt. It made the combat brutal, because I built Geralt differently and was forced to switch to blocking and slow, plodding melee. Not a good design at all. But it was risky, and I always give bonus points for a fun, risky design even if the implementation is poor. How else does the industry grow?

[Shirosaki17]

JohnEpler wrote...

Valcutio wrote...

It's funny that this thread hasn't been locked yet. Every time I turn around I read a thread that gets locked because the original post doesn't contribute to a constructive conversation or some such nonsense.

And then we have this thread. Go figure.

Going by the less-than-complimentary tone of the OP, I think that this may be a poor place to make the 'BioWare is censoring us' point.

I left it open because, by the time I saw it, it contained discussion. I try not to shut down threads that involve actual discussion.

You could have left that thread Laidlaw was posting in open. Most people were waiting for him to respond to the posts they replied to him with. Could have been a good thread once he got back to it.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

In Exile wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

Yeah, I did find that part annoying. But it auto saved in each section and they weren't long.

But
they forced you to use non-Geralt. It made the combat brutal, because I
built Geralt differently and was forced to switch to blocking and slow,
plodding melee. Not a good design at all. But it was risky, and I
always give bonus points for a fun, risky design even if the
implementation is poor. How else does the industry grow?

They had already done that for me earlier in the game, so I was already used to how it worked.

I wish that they fleshed out the "re-living the battle" aspects of it though.

As it was, there were only a handful of linear sections. I would've liked a larger and more open battle. Of course, I would've liked to manually save as well. Sections where Geralt fights as himself and sections where he takes over the <spoilers> and able to make decisions regarding the battle, for example, like not informing that the <spoiler> was taken or defecting altogether. These choices could've also maybe impacted the fight with the <spoiler>.

Like for example, if your choices in the battle prevented the <spoiler> from calling in <spoilers> because your choices led to <spoiler's> army being decimated. Conversely, aiding <spoiler> instead may net you a greater reward when you kill the <spoiler> at the end.

Now that would've been cool. IMO.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 30 mai 2011 - 02:35 .

[neppakyo]

mrcrusty wrote...

They had already done that for me earlier in the game, so I was already used to how it worked.

I wish that they fleshed out the "re-living the battle" aspects of it though.

As it was, there were only a handful of linear sections. I would've liked a larger and more open battle. Of course, I would've liked to manually save as well. Sections where Geralt fights as himself and sections where he takes over the <spoilers> and able to make decisions regarding the battle, for example, like not informing that the <spoiler> was taken or defecting altogether. These choices could've also maybe impacted the fight with the <spoiler>.

Like for example, if your choices in the battle prevented the <spoiler> from calling in <spoilers> because your choices led to <spoiler's> army being decimated. Conversely, aiding <spoiler> instead may net you a greater reward when you kill the <spoiler> at the end.

Now that would've been cool. IMO.

Now not-so evil twin you're <spolier> too much there. I think <spoiler> a fine job, but <spoiler> what you typed <spoiler> be cool too.

:innocent:

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Go <spoiler> yourself.

[neppakyo]

mrcrusty wrote...

Go <spoiler> yourself.

How about you <spoiler> that straight up your <spoiler>

[In Exile]

mrcrusty wrote...

They had already done that for me earlier in the game, so I was already used to how it worked.

That section overpowered one character versus the other, and a few blows ended it. Not so with the enemies there.

My point, though, is that it suddenly and without warning switches gameplay on you, and many of the abilities of Geralt transfer. So a mage or alchemy path Geralt is screwed (actually, alchemy is triple screwed since it removes all your buffs permanently and you have no chance to re-apply them) wheras all of the bonuses of swordmanship Geralt are retained. It's unbalanced, and not very well executed.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I was playing a swordsman-magic hybrid type character, so I was fine with it.

But that's a fair point you raise.

[PaulSX]

TW2's scripting and graphics are better than DA2, everything else is as bad as DA2

[Nexpeed]

Pretty much like DA2 hype before hitting the market, what if Skyrim fails up to expectations too? DA2 may have some flaws but it's still an addictive game, I still remember ES4 was soo good until boredom hits me and I rushed to finish the game, ES series never really got me immersed, I did just a single playthrough and no more.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Nexpeed wrote...

Pretty much like DA2 hype before hitting the market, what if Skyrim fails up to expectations too? DA2 may have some flaws but it's still an addictive game, I still remember ES4 was soo good until boredom hits me and I rushed to finish the game, ES series never really got me immersed, I did just a single playthrough and no more.

Oblivion massively failed to live up to my expectations and it was still hailed GOTY by many many people and publications.

So Skyrim's got a pretty good shot.

[In Exile]

I was just never a Bestheda fan. New Vegas was an okay game because of the role Obsidian played in upping the RPG elements (even if I don't like their take on RPGs) but NV Skyrim is being done by the 'core' team.

Modifié par In Exile, 30 mai 2011 - 05:28 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I've seen you say that you dislike open world exploration, so that makes it clear to me why you don't like Bethesda games.

But out of curiosity, what are your favorite RPGs?

Also, what do you mean by "NV is being done by the 'core' team"?

[DSGrant]

Thought I'd echo some sentiments here that DA2 is in no way, shape, or form a contender for GOTY. I also agree that GOTY will be between TW2 and Skyrim.

Having played Witcher 2, I can say without reservation that it is hands down better than DA2 in nearly every way despite a couple of glaring flaws, and apparently that opinion is widely shared. Skyrim is therefore facing some stiff competition with TW2 and will have to be truly amazing to win, but I have high hopes for it.

(Hopefully Bioware considers the mountain of feedback we provided for DA2 in the context of what makes TW2 and Skyrim successful and appealing to the RPG fanbase.)

Modifié par DSGrant, 30 mai 2011 - 04:54 .

[neppakyo]

DSGrant wrote...
(Hopefully Bioware considers the mountain of feedback we provided for DA2 in the context of what makes TW2 and Skyrim successful and appealing to the RPG fanbase.)

Depends if EA allows them to.

[In Exile]

mrcrusty wrote...

I've seen you say that you dislike open world exploration, so that makes it clear to me why you don't like Bethesda games.

But out of curiosity, what are your favorite RPGs?

Also, what do you mean by "NV is being done by the 'core' team"?

That was a typo. I was thinking Skyrim, but since we were talking about New Vegas, I wrote the wrong game.

If I had to list my favourite RPGs, it would be (and I honestly can't rank order choices) the Bioware style story-based RPGs:

KoTOR
NWN (HoTU) - and the many, many NWN modules whose names I can't recall; NWN OC sucked, but fans did brilliant things with the toolset. I don't think we'll ever so much amazing and free user created content, though I have never replayed any of them, as they are filled with the D&D ruleset which needs to die in fire.
DA:O
NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer (though I can't replay it with the horror of D&D - man, I hate that ruleset).
PS:T
ME    (despite hating the combat mechanics)
ME2  (despite lamenting that they fixed the combat by going in the opposite direction I would have liked)

I take a very different philosophical outlook on what makes RP actually RP, so I consider things like ME and ME2 to be a radical new take on character interaction. You can see some of that if you ever look in the VO threads and see the debates between Sylvius and me. Basically, I don't believe you can ever control tone and voice in an RPG as a player, and so I prefer PC VO to SP.

I would also add I really like, but recognize as very flawed games, DA2 and KoTOR II. DA2 becaue I happen to like the way the combat feels (though if only there were no waves, ugh) and KoTOR II because it's similar enough to PS:T but just has a more... tolerable setting. On paper, DA2 sounded like the kind of game that would implemented everything I wanted in an RPG. They are both very fun heavily modded, and in a sense the antithesis of each other. KoTOR II is unfinished but well written, DA2 is finished but... well, you get the picture.

You'll notice the BG series isn't there. It has two strikes for me: it's filled with mechanics I found Bioware did better later, and it has D&D in it, which is a horror to play for me and a ruleset I believe needs to die in fire. BG II is just too similar to so many other Bioware games but it's just missing some basic party interaction features that make me not like the game as much.

[neppakyo]

You list NWN1 and NWN2 which is D&D 3rd and 3.5 edition ruleset, then go on that D&D ruleset needs to die in a fire

Modifié par neppakyo, 30 mai 2011 - 05:48 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

http://deadlystream....file/13-tslrcm/

Might help with KotOR 2.

[In Exile]

neppakyo wrote...

You list NWN1 and NWN2 which is D&D 3rd and 3.5 edition ruleset, then go on that D&D ruleset needs to die in a fire

You may note that I also said, I could never replay the game, and the rulset needs to die in fire as I mention those games.

It might shock you, but I can like the game even if I hate the combat with a passion that words can't account for. I can just tune the difficulty down to easy and go through the game that way. I'd just never want to replay it.

mrcrusty wrote...

http://deadlystream....file/13-tslrcm/

Might
help with KotOR 2.

Wow. Modders have done great work since I last played the game, years ago. Thanks!

Modifié par In Exile, 30 mai 2011 - 07:03 .

[neppakyo]

In Exile wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

You list NWN1 and NWN2 which is D&D 3rd and 3.5 edition ruleset, then go on that D&D ruleset needs to die in a fire

You may note that I also said, I could never replay the game, and the rulset needs to die in fire as I mention those games.

It might shock you, but I can like the game even if I hate the combat with a passion that words can't account for. I can just tune the difficulty down to easy and go through the game that way. I'd just never want to replay it.

mrcrusty wrote...

http://deadlystream....file/13-tslrcm/

Might
help with KotOR 2.

Wow. Modders have done great work since I last played the game, years ago. Thanks!

Ahh I misread what you typed. I still like to play NWN2: MoTB. One of the best games I've played. Personally, I quite like the 3.5 ed rules.

Now if a toolset is released for DA2, modders will work miracles for making DA2 a playable game. Even without one, they're doing a fine job.

[thedistortedchild]

DA2 will NOT be RPG goty. Unless both Deus Ex and Skyrim contian huge amounts of fail.
I'm gonna put my money on Skyrim as rpg of the year.

[In Exile]

neppakyo wrote...
Ahh I misread what you typed. I still like to play NWN2: MoTB. One of the best games I've played. Personally, I quite like the 3.5 ed rules.

Now if a toolset is released for DA2, modders will work miracles for making DA2 a playable game. Even without one, they're doing a fine job.

I was a little snarky too, no worries.

DA2 actually becomes a a much game, IMO with mods. All I need now is a mod to remove the waves, and I think DA2 can be a solid 7.5. There would still be fundamental flaws like the absolute lack of choice and recycled areas, but mods take the edge off that.

Of course, I'm including things like diversified followers armour, the companion ability unlock, coherent outfits for mages (using the Hawke finery skin), ability tweaks that bring in mage skills in line with lore, much longer cooldown on assassin, and likely many more I can't recall.