95 réponses à ce sujet

[TobyHasEyes]

I think the value of the morality bar is in and of itself, rather than its Mass Effect 2 link to persuasion. Roleplaying the actions, seeing the consequences and being given a rough rating (which doesn't counteract the other aka light side / dark side) is what I get from the division. This comes from a guy who plays his Shepard largely Paragon, and it just feels a bit rubbish that because, for example, I think Mordin did the right thing on the genophage, I can't convince Miranda and Jack that I don't wanna take sides..

[Fixers0]

Thanks everybody for commenting, I wil surely take a look at the suggestion posted.

This is and many other ideas is part of a Mass Effect 2 redesign document i'm currently working ond which primary goal is to improve gameplay experiance, and i will post it on my blog once it's finished.

Back ontopic, i think that PR System can stay, but that it's rather underused right now, as the only thing it affects right now are weather or not you can select certain dialouge options which isn't even the point of a morality system.

As i said before Morality should have a more long-term effect, and should impact how people react to your shepard and how certain situations resolve and maybe things like ''actions of morality''. in this sytem your shepard will develop him/herself in three general directions (Paragon-Neutral-Renegde) as sees how the world reacts to it.

Modifié par Fixers0, 23 mai 2011 - 11:45 .

[Kusy]

FOR MASS EFFECT 3 I WOULD LIKE PEOPLE TO CHECK IF THERE ALREDY IS A THREAD ABOUT WHATEVER THEY HAVE TO SAY BEFORE THEY MAKE THEIR OWN.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 23 mai 2011 - 11:47 .

[alx119]

Although I always play paragon on my first playthroughs, I still felt that there should be another in the middle, in simple words, and puting everything in essence, Paragon = Good, Renegade = Bad, if we're talking in black and whites that's fine, but decisions aren't made just in "black and white" Shepard himself says it a couple of times, we have to take time to look at the greys. That's why seems logical to have another "path" in the middle of those two.

I'd call it Rectitude :B

[Dangerfoot]

Agreed as much as a person can possibly agree. It's just a silly system that completely railroads you into acting one of two incredibly vague ways. That is a complete cop-out of RP. Why even bother? Just give me choice of P or R at the beginning and never let me make a choice in dialogue again if that's how you want the game to go. (Please don't do that)

[Fixers0]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

FOR MASS EFFECT 3 I WOULD LIKE PEOPLE TO CHECK IF THERE ALREDY IS A THREAD ABOUT WHATEVER THEY HAVE TO SAY BEFORE THEY MAKE THEIR OWN.

For Mass Effect 3 i would like to see that people who can't control their temper are send to a mental hospital.

That Aside, Is their a thread that Suggest adding perssuasion back as and independant skills and changing Morality into a way to define you're characters, or did you just read the title and thought: ZOMG ANOTHER PR THREAD LET'S DERAIL IT! 

Modifié par Fixers0, 23 mai 2011 - 01:33 .

[jellmoo32]

I honestly didn't think there was an issue until my second playthrough. My first was a vanilla Paragon style game. Superhero Shepard.

My second though, I decided to have him have a bit of a chip on his shoulder. He was Paragon with old friends like Tali, Garrus and Joker, but was decidedly hostile with all Cerberus agents. He recognized the need to have murderers, mad scientists and hitmen on his crew, but he didn't like it, and treated them accordingly.

This split my Paragon/Renegade score pretty hard. While he still wound up being more Renegade, it reduced some dialogue options and felt... wrong.

The system isn't broken, but I think that there needs to either be added leeway, or additional dialogue options to sort of help round out the conversations.

[TobyHasEyes]

I genuinely wouldn't mind if the success of your persuasion was dependent on how Paragon/Renegade.. but for the sake of role-playing you could attempt to persuade a character and have it fail

Basically it bugs me that if my Shepard is to any degree morally grey, then you have to pick between squad mates in conflicts

[88mphSlayer]

no, lying does not exist in the mass effect universe

whatever shepard says he/she believes to the core, bro

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 23 mai 2011 - 02:11 .

[Five Seven Five]

I sincerely hope persuade isn't P/R dependent in ME3. I think there has been significant fan support for such a change since the first ME.

[Labrev]

Agreed. ME2's system was wrong on so many levels, I hope they realize that.

[xIxDarkWolfxIx]

Agreed, though my main character is predominantly paragon and can do the high-level persuasion it never made sense to me that morality effects persuasion. Morality can still have its place in that certain individuals maybe more or less likely to follow you etc. I never understood why I had to be High Renegade or High Paragon to fix the mess with Legion & Tali and/or Jack & Miranda. Where does morality come into that?

Modifié par xIxDarkWolfxIx, 23 mai 2011 - 02:35 .

[Da Mecca]

I said this as soon as I started playing ME2.

I don't know why they thought this was a good idea.

[Liec]

The Charm/Intimidate skills in ME1 were horrible point sinks and should stay buried D=

[Da Mecca]

God forbid you spend points on non combat related things in a RPG.

[FKA_Servo]

Just ditch the whole thing. The end result Renegade and Paragon decisions won't change if they are completely uncoupled from any sort of "meter" or skill investment. Let us make whatever decision we want to. It would make for a more realistic character.

Besides, I'm Commander Shepard. I shouldn't need a requisite number of "points" to shoot a fool in the foot.

[theelementslayer]

I dont know why people have a problem with it. I played both games, ME1, and ME2 with not using any of the red/blue options in the left hand side of the wheel and I was able to come out with everyone alive of the SM and most of my choices in tact.

[xentar]

lolwut666 wrote...

I agree, but I think that some Paragon/Renegade actions/choices should only be available to those who have a very high value in the respective alignment, as to indicate that only someone extremely ruthless/compassionate would consider that course of action.

I don't think you should be able to cheerily troddle up and down the morality road as you please.

Why shouldn't you, you can do this freely in real life, why should the game arbitrarily limit your freedom when there are no technical reasons to do so?

As for reducing the difficulty of the checks, something nasty awaits if they  were to be implemented: feedback loops. That is, as long as the difficulty is not nonexistent, you have a rather non-negligible chance to lose one of the persuasion abilities eventually. After that you will be forced to select between explicitly inferior answers and those that are "morally correct"... which, unless you are fond of failures, will further reinforce the morality you ended up with and reduce your alternative persuasion ability.

That's what happened to me, in fact: about 2/3 of the way through I lost the ability to intimidate, and ended up a bit more paragon than I should have been had I had freedom to persuade independently from my morality.

As for the function of the morality system itself, do you people really want someone to arbitrarily grade your actions? Are you sure that kind of grading isn't going to lead to more metagaming than really necessary for satisfaction? In my opinion, morality shouldn't have more influence in conversations than your class or background. Ideally, those bars should actually be hidden until the end of the game in order to avoid encouraging people to actually "choose for the grades" and not for themselves.

[Aumata]

People aren't simple creatures, that what annoyed me in Mass Effect 2. Hell the whole system annoyed me, because even with having a full intimidation or paragon score, I still couldn't convince people because of the retarded system that was in place. I rather have a persuasion skill so I can role play, and either remove P/R system, or have it come with minor benefits.

[MassStorm]

I hate how Paragons want to be nice and at the same time having violent cool-looking persuasion moves.....this is utterly ridiculous of them

[Da Mecca]

Shepard isn't nice no matter how paragon you are.

By the end of each game he has killed several hundred people, no matter what "alignment" he is, he is a very threatening individual.

[Raizo]

I agree as well.

[AlanC9]

Aumata wrote...
 Hell the whole system annoyed me, because even with having a full intimidation or paragon score, I still couldn't convince people because of the retarded system that was in place..

What are you talking about? Are you complaining because the devs didn't let you talk anyone in the game into doing what you wanted them to?

[Kusy]

Fixers0 wrote...
[...] or did you just read the title and thought: ZOMG ANOTHER PR THREAD LET'S DERAIL IT! 

Pretty much that, apololgies.

[Bluefuse]

This gives the player more freedom. Make it happen, BioWare.