514 réponses à ce sujet

[Kidd]

I'm confused. Browsing these forums, there's a whole lot of posts where people who don't like voiced protagonists go on about how they never felt Hawke was "their" character, rather a character they just borrowed for a while. Yet even so, the Witcher is praised all over the place. I don't mean to belittle the Witcher - I haven't even played the game so what do I know in reality - but from what I've gathered you have far less control in the Witcher than in DA2.

Checklist time! And feel free to correct my checklist if I'm wrong about something, cause I totally don't mean to throw mud around here. I'm merely curious about people's reactions.

Fixed voice: Both games
Fixed gender: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character look: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character personality: Neither, both allow for interpretations of the same character
Fixed sexuality: Only the Witcher, not in DA2

Now I'm not hating on fixed main characters. I play and enjoy way too many jrpgs to do that! But it just strikes me as odd. Perhaps the ones hating on DA2 in this regard dislike the Witcher even more than DA2? I would assume as much if it wasn't for the fact I see people pulling the "Hawke doesn't feel like my character" card so darn often and also see the "the Witcher is a lot better rpg" card as well. Figure two things that pop up in every second thread ought to have at least some people who nod at both statements.

So please, enlighten me =) Depending on how in depth some of these answers can get, it might really help BioWare to craft games with voiced protagonists in the future, and we all want more and better games, no? =)

EDIT: Originally I had a line that implied you had a fixed class in TW2. This is not true, the two games just handles character progression in different ways. Sorry for the misunderstanding and not treating me like some troll when I was just uninformed ^^

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 24 mai 2011 - 08:11 .

[Aargh12]

I will tell you - TW2 gives you way more freedom in doing things than DA2. Plus Geralt is a better character than Hawke.

/thread

[Dave of Canada]

Aargh12 wrote...

I will tell you - TW2 gives you way more freedom in doing things than DA2. Plus Geralt is a better character than Hawke.

/thread

I disagree.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 23 mai 2011 - 09:52 .

[Kidd]

Aargh12 wrote...

I will tell you - TW2 gives you way more freedom in doing things than DA2. Plus Geralt is a better character than Hawke.

/thread

That'd have to be a -whole- lot more freedom within the quite narrow confines you're put in to make up for Hawke's seemingly much greater freedom. But indeed, I have not played the game, so I'm not saying I disagree =)

[Tommy6860]

While your checklist is a valid one for comparison, most RPGers aren't limited to those aspects as the defining differences between the two games. Some though, as myself, has to have the ability to at least play a character I want to play, my choice of a name (minor thorough), my gender, even a different race. As I have noted before, I loved TW, but the static character limitation is putting me off buying TW2 for now and prevented me from doing a complete second run through TW.

Anyway, the main praise TW2 is getting over DA2 isn't so focused on what you list, it's mainly the fact that in DA2, your questing choices have little impact on the story. In TW2, you actually role play your character where your decisions have consequences, this makes the game an RPG. DA2 really didn't do this, and most times, the game holds the hand of the player as they quest on.. Your choices, though seemingly important when you make them in DA2, turn out vacuous and, for me anyway, left me feeling empty for a game that claims that it "shapes itself around every decision I make.".

That's really the differences most will state here, not so much character building though.

[Kidd]

Leave it to the nerdy asari scientist to lay out the facts in such an orderly fashion =)

[Tommy6860]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Leave it to the nerdy asari scientist to lay out the facts in such an orderly fashion =)

Thanks!

Anyway, read a post here second from the top by Shadow of Light Dragon, though different from what I gave here, she does a great job of breaking dowm some the differences.

[Khayness]

People are forgetting that they aren't playing that character, they are guiding it.

I have no problems with that.

"What would Hawke/Geralt/Shepard/Nameless Hero/Raptorjesus do?", instead of "What would I do?". It still leaves room for roleplaying.

Modifié par Khayness, 23 mai 2011 - 10:24 .

[Corto81]

Geralt feels like a real character in a real world, and his behavior/decisions matter.

Hawke feels like a character in a fake setting made for you to quest in... Only the decisions made during the quests matter not at all.

TW2 is a great game, and Geralt helps it being great (with other factors).
DA2 is a bad one and Hawke just sorta loses whatever charm he/she has in the blandness and the shallowness (while not a bad character, Hawke definitely isn't as memorable as Shepard).

[Cutlasskiwi]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Aargh12 wrote...

I will tell you - TW2 gives you way more freedom in doing things than DA2. Plus Geralt is a better character than Hawke.

/thread

I disagree.

I agree with your disagreement.  

ETA:
I had problems completing TW1 and I'm having the same problem with TW2. No matter how much I want to like it I have to realize that it's not for me. Geralt not feeling like my character is a part of that but not the sole reason. It's a great series of games and really well made and I can see why people love both games.

Modifié par Yellow Words, 23 mai 2011 - 10:24 .

[Xewaka]

It's more of an expectations thing. The customizability in DA2 suggests a more personal approach to the character, as opposed to the Witcher's set protagonist. Therefore, the lack of in-game personalitazion in the decision making and the set voice is offputting in DA 2, while expected in the Witcher. Each game presentation creates a different set of expectations for the player; the Witcher fits these expectations better on average than DA2.

[Serpieri Nei]

@KiddDaBeauty

Curious, did you not ask this question when you were reading those posts on "why they didn't feel Hawke is my character"? Most of those posts were comparisons made between Hawke and the Warden, not Geralt.

If you just want to compare Dragon age 2 to Witcher 2 then I would suggest first playing the game so that your capable of making a comparison between the two and keep in mind their predecessors when making your list.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 23 mai 2011 - 10:26 .

[JabbaDaHutt30]

I imagine after the Witcher's 2 success there will be a whole lot of: "Why does Dragon Age 2 suck so much when the Witcher also does X?" type of questions here.

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 23 mai 2011 - 10:29 .

[element eater]

Well i'm one of the people that slags of the use of Hawke and ill say yes TW2 has the some of the same issues which is why i'm yet to buy it. For me creating my own character is part of the rpg genre that I particularly enjoy and something I expect from Bioware. Obviously I cant have it my way all the time (or in the case of Biowares current direction at all) but, while there are some notable exceptions to the rule I still generally enjoy games more when I do. The character creation process is part of what led me to be a Bioware fan in the first place to see them remove this feature from there games is disappointing.

like ive said on numerous other posts alot of it's about players expectations.

Modifié par element eater, 23 mai 2011 - 10:47 .

[Wittand25]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

I imagine after the Witcher's 2 success there will be a whole lot of: "Why does Dragon Age 2 suck so much when the Witcher also does X?" type of questions here.

Isn´t it obvious ?
Bioware is an established developer with a whole decade to collect disgruntled fans.
The Witcher games are developed by a relatively unknown studio.

For some reason the only people sticking to the forums on the internet are either fans or haters while the vast majority does not stay part of this kind of community. So a flaw in a game by an established Developer will always get harsher reactions by the "gaming community" than one by a new Developer team that has not had the possibility to gather disappointed fans and can therefore get away with far more.

Also the short development time really hurt DA2 and prevented from all the features to be brought to the standard one is used by BioWare.

[fchopin]

No to the op.

I would be happier if Bioware concentrated on creating more unique player characters and less customisation as that is the only way to create a good story with role playing choices in the game.

I thought that when they named Hawke with fewer selections than DAO we would have a more unique individual with more choices but alas that was not the case.

[Riloux]

Customization only for the sake of customization is stupid. Sure, you can change your look, gender and name but if it has absolutely zero impact on the story and romances, why bother including it at all? All the characters are bisexual, so whether you're a boy or a girl, the romance will play out the same way. The story has a single ending, and whether you're ugly as sin or the most handsome man in the world, it'll play out the exact same way.

You also mentioned class, and that's just laughable. What difference does it make if you're a mage in Kirkwall if no one acknowledges it. When you enter Flotsam in Witcher 2, guards become hostile if your sword is sheathed. What ho! Logic? In a video game? Blasphemy!

Here's a quote by erynnar from another thread on this page that I think expresses the difference between the fixed voiced protagonist in the Witcher and the voiced protagonist in DA2.

In Witcher 2, it makes sense, not only because Witcher 1 was about Geralt, but because the games are based on the Polish series of novels. So people can understand why it's there. In this sense, it's no different to the Mass Effect games. There's also plenty of choices involved to allow you to shape that character. No one complains about Shepard because having the character is understandable and you're given enough freedom to shape them as yours.

Hawke is not a protagonist as strong as Geralt or Shepard, but he is much more defined than the Warden. What is he then? Your character? Bioware's character? Why make things like that? You don't get the freedom of a "blank slate" character, but you don't get the depth of a "fixed protagonist" either.

Modifié par Riloux, 23 mai 2011 - 11:17 .

[BomimoDK]

Tommy6860 wrote...

While your checklist is a valid one for comparison, most RPGers aren't limited to those aspects as the defining differences between the two games. Some though, as myself, has to have the ability to at least play a character I want to play, my choice of a name (minor thorough), my gender, even a different race. As I have noted before, I loved TW, but the static character limitation is putting me off buying TW2 for now and prevented me from doing a complete second run through TW.

Anyway, the main praise TW2 is getting over DA2 isn't so focused on what you list, it's mainly the fact that in DA2, your questing choices have little impact on the story. In TW2, you actually role play your character where your decisions have consequences, this makes the game an RPG. DA2 really didn't do this, and most times, the game holds the hand of the player as they quest on.. Your choices, though seemingly important when you make them in DA2, turn out vacuous and, for me anyway, left me feeling empty for a game that claims that it "shapes itself around every decision I make.".

That's really the differences most will state here, not so much character building though.

I'm playing TW2 right now, and this is true! It IS a stronger RPG and the SET character is actually a character you can roleplay. You're given a proper exposition as to who he is and what he's about and you're reminded once in a while, by himself too, that his proffession goes above anything else.
At some points, the roleplaying exceeds that of Origins where your first playthrough left you without a mentor 8 hours in and some apprentice Gray Warden telling you to "Warden Away" while no one ever explained to you what wardens do beyond what you hear on the surface. You're never reminded how wardens usually tackle a situation and you're not guided. You're not playing your role, you're just "being there".
In that regard, Witcher 2 is stronger since you actually KNOW when you're doing what the average witcher would be doing. It's a shame that Origins held out on the Gray Warden info until the battle of Denerim was about to kick off and you'd already taken your character far off the rails! You'd already broken the whole Gray Warden code right there!

[culletron1]

Honestly I never had a problem with the fixed main character...

If Bioware had put in as much effort into DA2 as CDProjekt did with the TW2 Hawke could have been a great character... The ingredients were there but everything was underdeveloped.

Alas chapter one in TW2 has more depth than the whole of DA2

[Riloux]

Rojahar wrote...

I'm curious how people would feel if Bioware got rid of character creation and went with an even more defined protagonist like in The Witcher. Though I didn't have a problem with DA2, I liked it, it seems like people have an issue with DA2 allegedly having one foot in one camp, and the other fit in another, with Hawke kind of being half-defined, half-custom. Bioware often mentions how there's a lot of things they're unable to do in their games because of the choices they offer, and so I'm curious what they'd do and how well it would work out if they decided to much more solidly commit to putting quality above quantity of choice.

I wouldn't like it. The reason it works for the Witcher is because the games are based on the books. Bioware is known for their open-ended games that offer choices and different endings, and I don't want to see that change. The voiced protagonist feels like a step in the wrong direction for Bioware.

[Envor44]

Nevertheless in both games...you'd play "as" this character, and it isn't your own character because real original role-playing game meant that you start from scrap. It's always often "random" person rise to be a hero or villian.

You choose your races, gender, appreance...no background story at all, it's old school RPG and Origins loosen some strictly in modern RPG nowadays it does bring freedom(not fully) of creating character back, and to be honest...Hawke personalties is broken...you choose diplomatic behavior...he'd ended up as goody two shoes...a middle option turned out as snarky jerks...a mixed complex personality like a real person isn't exist in DA2 while Geralt from the Witcher series more like a real person with complex personality.

[Elhanan]

Big difference for me: not going to play TW games. A couple of reasons is that TW requires more reported twitch skills, and the focus on the so called Mature materials (eg; sex. nudity, profanity, etc) is not for me.

[ruttunenn]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

...

So please, enlighten me =) Depending on how in depth some of these answers can get, it might really help BioWare to craft games with voiced protagonists in the future, and we all want more and better games, no? =)

The fixed and voiced character does not bother me in TW2 because in TW2 I can actually make Geralt make the choices I would make.

Comparing that to DA2 Hawke where all my decisions pretty much lead to same look at this AWESOME BUTTON combat splatter every time.

So in short TW2`s fixed character can actually portray my choises and I can actually ROLE PLAY through the game instead of having fixed on trails experience no matter what I would make Hawke say:

DA2
1: I come in peace -> Awesome button smash
2: DERP -> Awesome button smash
3: I kell u -> Awesome button smash

TW
1: Mind control the person to resolve situation peacefully -> Possible success
2: Intimidate the person to resolve situation peacefully -> Possible success
3: Use wits/charm to resolve the situation peacefully -> Possible success
4: Kill the person outright
and more possible dialogue options ...

Modifié par ruttunenn, 23 mai 2011 - 11:51 .

[Khayness]

Elhanan wrote...

Big difference for me: not going to play TW games. A couple of reasons is that TW requires more reported twitch skills, and the focus on the so called Mature materials (eg; sex. nudity, profanity, etc) is not for me.

Those so called mature materials are more on the line of choices like saving your friend from a gruesome death or saving a kingdom and its subjects, let a man to fulfill his revenge or saving a ruler who is a bastard, but the status quo needs him.

I didn't get caught in the bias filter and actually looked beneath the surface.