514 réponses à ce sujet

[Chugster]

ok...so how many people didnt kill the archdemon in DAO?

the point is, no game has real choices, just different ways of ending up where the devs want you...dont kid yourselves...even with games with multiple endings, its still the endings the devs choose for you

@Ringo...so finishing a game with only 5 people recruited...or telling the Arishok to take isabela arent choices? There are choices in this game, the same type of choices in DAO, just not quite as many of them

Just wondering...how many endings does TW2 have?

[Siegdrifa]

Chugster wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Hawke on the other hand, will get 3 options, say 3 different things, and generally, the NPC will utterly ignore which option Hawke used, and just say the same thing anyway.

That is to say, most of the time, Hawke fails to get a different reaction, regardless of whether they are a 'comical', 'nice', or 'aggressive' Hawke.

Feeling that most of your choices have little to no effect stops me personally from being immersed in a character.

You didnt seem to notice that your character changes depending on your dialogue choices...as the game progreses your Hawke initiates conversations based on the 3 types of dialogue...if you always choose aggresive Hawke starts conversations aggresively.

If that isnt dialogue choices changing your character then i dont know what is

I care more about what i want to say rather than how i want to express.
Giving the oportinity to be good / sarcastic /rude is fine, if it was in a modorate or appropriate circomstance, wich is not the case in DA2, its overused so much and without real impact on the story, it is a waste.

They made Hawke comment on everything like a dog crap everywhere on the street, i would have loved if NPC could answer "Hawke, if you have nothing intresting to say on the subject then shut up".

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 27 mai 2011 - 01:40 .

[Chromie]

Chugster wrote...

ok...so how many people didnt kill the archdemon in DAO?

the point is, no game has real choices, just different ways of ending up where the devs want you...dont kid yourselves...even with games with multiple endings, its still the endings the devs choose for you

@Ringo...so finishing a game with only 5 people recruited...or telling the Arishok to take isabela arent choices? There are choices in this game, the same type of choices in DAO, just not quite as many of them

Just wondering...how many endings does TW2 have?

Witcher 2 has 16 different endings.

And that's what I'm saying there are how many ways to get the Arishok to leave? Kill them or let them take Isabella.

In Witcher 2 just in the PROLOGUE you have more decisions. The prologue is short in spil into a framed narrative during that part of the game before escaping prison. But depending on what you have done you can already change the political state of the Northern Kingdoms.

There is a war going on and your nearing the end of it. Geralt is tasked with stopping some archers from picking off Temerian soilders so you go all sneaky like to the top of a tower to either kill the Archers and the leader, the leader only or get them to all surrender.

If you kill the archers and the leader well they're dead and later in the game you see the leader's (Aaryn La Valette) mother who is the baroness either forced to say she had an incentuious realathionship with her son or with the King of Temeria. There is a 3rd party waiting to invade and who took the baronesse captive so she can either sign or die but you can stop it.

Now if you dueled Aaryn La Valette he dies but his soilders surrender unfortunately this time you won't be able to stop the Baroness from signing the document claiming she had children with her son. So her children aren't able to take the Temerian throne.

If you convinced Aaryn La Valette the mother has been taken by Temerian Special Forces into protective custody of the King, who is now dead, but Aaryn is now in the prison with Geralt and you can help him escapes but instead he decides to burn the castle with lots of oil and gunpowder.


Witcher 2 has a lot ALOT of choices. It's amazing really how the little things can change your experience. Something like choosing to give someone a sword can change the entire game , not an exaggeration.

Modifié par Ringo12, 27 mai 2011 - 01:47 .

[Elhanan]

Open Question: Besides DAO and TW2, what games have had what you consider to be imporant multiple choices?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elhanan wrote...

Open Question: Besides DAO and TW2, what games have had what you consider to be imporant multiple choices?

Alpha Protocol.

[Dreadstruck]

It's Aryan, not Aaryn.

[TheStrand221]

DA2 had a good number of choices compared to other games, all things considered. The only place I think it failed in that respect was at the end, where no matter who you sided with you had to kill everybody anyway. It could have used some sort of mage / templar / neutral end choice moment.

Where TW2 really shines over DA2 is the immersiveness and reactive nature of the environments and NPCs. DA2 has a less defined character, which is a plus for many people, though others have made good arguments that your ability to differentiate Hawke within the game is somewhat limited.

[TheStrand221]

Elhanan wrote...

Open Question: Besides DAO and TW2, what games have had what you consider to be imporant multiple choices?

Ninja Gaiden.

I could choose to quit and do something productive with my life while bearing the onus of my shame forever, or I could keep playing until I achieved enlightenment and beat the game as my earthly body atrophied.

[Marionetten]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Open Question: Besides DAO and TW2, what games have had what you consider to be imporant multiple choices?

Alpha Protocol.

The Witcher, VtM: Bloodlines, Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magick Obscura and Deus Ex to add to that list.

[Chromie]

Marionetten wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Open Question: Besides DAO and TW2, what games have had what you consider to be imporant multiple choices?

Alpha Protocol.

The Witcher, VtM: Bloodlines, Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magick Obscura and Deus Ex to add to that list.

I'll add Fallout 1 and 2.

@Avalla'ch  Give me a break!

Modifié par Ringo12, 27 mai 2011 - 03:06 .

[Arppis]

TheStrand221 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Open Question: Besides DAO and TW2, what games have had what you consider to be imporant multiple choices?

Ninja Gaiden.

I could choose to quit and do something productive with my life while bearing the onus of my shame forever, or I could keep playing until I achieved enlightenment and beat the game as my earthly body atrophied.

That game really did open up for me after awhile. To be honest, it only did that when I started playing second game of the series. The camera was my worst enemy in the first game. But after learning how the second game works, I could beat the first game just as easy. Was nice.

[Damariel]

hehehe

[Siegdrifa]

Elhanan wrote...

Open Question: Besides DAO and TW2, what games have had what you consider to be imporant multiple choices?

 What kind of multiple choice?
Multiple choice to finish a quete in one way, or multiple choice that lead to different plot devloppement later ?

[BrunoB1971]

I personnally think that the witcher 2 has raised the bar real high for dragon age 3 to achieve. The devs have to really sit down and think:

"will we do dragon age 3 for money"

or

"are we doing this to create something special"

Dragon age 2 was made for the money and it shows...yes it got rave reviews and it is beteer than lots of game of the same genre out there but it just got its behind whipped by a studio that has less resources than Bioware. I would say that the people who made the decisions on DA2 should take a backseat on the third part because if the third game does not deliver it may spell the end of the franchise. The game will need a lof of work and effort and Bioware "could" bounce back if the leadership has their head straight for the next game...

Change is ok for a game but you cannot take shortcuts when making a game because it will show in your final product. Skyrim is also coming and looks extremely promising might even be way better than the witcher 2...bioware has to sit down and look at what made these game great while retaining the flavor of the original game...

honestly i would not like to be in their shoes right now because i am sure that some people are scrambling to come up with a plan but by the same token i hate the fact that some people at bioware seem to think that they didn't do anything wrong in DA2 and that everyone is happy because the game has received high scores on a lot of website.

what they seem to forget is that a score is set by one individual and the individual might be biased when giving out his score and it does not represent a proper sample of the general opinion of the population....just because Joe telle me that the shrimp is good at a specific restaurant doesnt mean that it is good.

by the same token just because a game gets high reviews a company should not get pompous aout their product or discouraged if they get low scores.

companies should listen to their fans first and get some input from their fans first before commiting to expand the game...i hope that bioware has read these forums over and over and learned a hard lesson about what they have done with the dragon age franchise so far towards its fans.

and again repeating myself...dont just do a game for the sake of making a quick buck...you may make some money for a little bit but you will lose your fans down the road after they realized that they have been exploited.... if you are honest to fans and what they want or need the rewards and benefits will come in naturally...


my 2 cents

Modifié par BrunoB1971, 27 mai 2011 - 04:41 .

[Elhanan]

Siegdrifa wrote...

 What kind of multiple choice?

Multiple choice to finish a quete in one way, or multiple choice that lead to different plot devloppement later ?

Choices that you as an indv Player consider to be of importance. Personally, I generally tend to believe both are valid (eg; DAO Quest related choices like the Deep Roads and Ashes; multiple epilogues possible).

[Tommy6860]

Elhanan wrote...

Open Question: Besides DAO and TW2, what games have had what you consider to be imporant multiple choices?

I really cannot answer the question simply based on what was just important, I mean deciding to kill an NPC is an important choice to be honest, but if it has no effect on the game state or plots, it is menaingless otherwise.  Simply put, I would want to know if it were important in the game's plots. I guess the appropriate question would be, How many important choices are available in the game that have effects., so here goes:

BG1&2
PS:T (<------ This the most of all of them!)
IWD
NWN
Fallout 1, 2 and 3 and Vegas
Daggerfall
Morrowind
Kotor
Jade Empire
Mass Effect 1&2
First 6 Ulitma games (stopped fter VI)
Might and Magic Series

I can list quite a few more older games (like from the mid 80 to the early 90s) taht offer these choices as well, but I think you get the idea.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 27 mai 2011 - 05:54 .

[Elhanan]

Tommy6860 wrote...

I really cannot answer the question simply based on what was just important, I mean deciding to kill an NPC is an important choice to be honest, but if it has no effect on the game state or plots, it is menaingless otherwise.  Simply put, I would want to know if it were important in the game's plots. I guess the appropriate question would be, How many important choices are available in the game that have effects., so here goes:

BG1&2
PS:T (<------ This the most of all of them!)
IWD
NWN
Fallout 1, 2 and 3 and Vegas
Daggerfall
Morrowind
Kotor
Jade Empire
Mass Effect 1&2
First 6 Ulitma games (stopped fter VI)
Might and Magic Series

I can list quite a few more older games (like from the mid 80 to the early 90s) taht offer these choices as well, but I think you get the idea.

From NWN and KOTOR. what do you consider to be the imporatnt choices?

[Dariuszp]

BrunoB1971 wrote...

I personnally think that the witcher 2 has raised the bar real high for dragon age 3 to achieve. The devs have to really sit down and think:

"will we do dragon age 3 for money"

or

"are we doing this to create something special"

Well, they try to go for money and what they get ? I don't know how it's right now but DA II fist start with the same amount of buyers like DAO (pre-orders - you know, those who dont know what will hit them). Then sales drop very fast. Something special == good money. Witcher 2 is an example. They drop DRM in 1.1 patch. They sell it online on GOG without DRM from the start and it's still best selling game out there right now.
W2 is not perfect (i got monster, not pc and game run on 60 FPS but some folks cant see how stuning the graphic is in W2) but game right now is great and dev after 1 week release 1.1 patch and they tell us that soon there will be another.
ALSO all DLC for this game will be free. We will pay only for expansions. Something you dont see too often.

BrunoB1971 wrote...
Dragon age 2 was made for the money and it shows...yes it got rave reviews and it is beteer than lots of game of the same genre out there but it just got its behind whipped by a studio that has less resources than Bioware. I would say that the people who made the decisions on DA2 should take a backseat on the third part because if the third game does not deliver it may spell the end of the franchise. The game will need a lof of work and effort and Bioware "could" bounce back if the leadership has their head straight for the next game...

Only idiots dont learn on their mistakes. And Bioware have no idiots i hope. They learn their lesson. Still, RPG games these days move to bigger audience. That's why offten combat is more action oriented. But there is difference. In W2 you got to use brain (playing sudden death right now). First of all, you need to dodge a loot. You are no super hero who just kill everything that moves and dont die from 100 hits. For example some monsters take me more than 50% with one hit. And on sudden death when you are dead - it's over. You got little mana (2-5 spells you can use at once depend of your character), you got swords (diferent for diferent monsters), traps (that can hit you if you are not careful) etc. You need to plan sometimes.
I own DA II but that game was just button smasher. You just spam spells from mage, spam potions and you are waiting for the next wave... it's just not enough for me. Chocies was poor. Game was something about 6/10 or 7/10.
Anyway, both games still have rpg elements and all that statistics and calculation. And I think that Bioware just experiment with DA II. And they will make DA III like it should be.

BrunoB1971 wrote...
Change is ok for a game but you cannot take shortcuts when making a game because it will show in your final product. Skyrim is also coming and looks extremely promising might even be way better than the witcher 2...bioware has to sit down and look at what made these game great while retaining the flavor of the original game...

It depends. If Skyrim will be another Oblivion with better graphic then sorry - i will pass. If they serve me brand new RPG with open world and good story - i will definitly play it. We will see who will be better in 2011 but this year Bioware is one of the last in line.

BrunoB1971 wrote...
honestly i would not like to be in their shoes right now because i am sure that some people are scrambling to come up with a plan but by the same token i hate the fact that some people at bioware seem to think that they didn't do anything wrong in DA2 and that everyone is happy because the game has received high scores on a lot of website.

Yeah. Reviews. More important are player reviews. And they are poor. There are loot of ugly mad hardcore rpg gamers who want to kill someone for DA II. And in the same year they got W2 who just destroy DA II in almost every aspect and there will by Skirim soon. It's a shame that legendary company in RPG teritory must lose over company that release their second game in last 4 years. I hope that Bioware will think what they are doing because if DA III will be failure then RPG market will be lost for them for few years.

BrunoB1971 wrote...
what they seem to forget is that a score is set by one individual and the individual might be biased when giving out his score and it does not represent a proper sample of the general opinion of the population....just because Joe telle me that the shrimp is good at a specific restaurant doesnt mean that it is good.

by the same token just because a game gets high reviews a company should not get pompous aout their product or discouraged if they get low scores.

companies should listen to their fans first and get some input from their fans first before commiting to expand the game...i hope that bioware has read these forums over and over and learned a hard lesson about what they have done with the dragon age franchise so far towards its fans.

They will learn. BW will loose market over fresh blood or make serious steps to do something we will remember for few years like Baldurs Gate. Whatever the option - we will win because we will get good games.

BrunoB1971 wrote...
and again repeating myself...dont just do a game for the sake of making a quick buck...you may make some money for a little bit but you will lose your fans down the road after they realized that they have been exploited.... if you are honest to fans and what they want or need the rewards and benefits will come in naturally...

Meaby Bioware forget about something. Games are for gamers. We are the gamers. If you try to make action-strategy-fps-rpg-puzzle then you will fail because there is better action in Devil May Cry, better strategy in Total War series, better fps in Battlefield, better rpg in Witcher or Skyrim and better puzzle in my closet.

And it will not sell. BW probably test if they can release new game in 1-2 year like COD or FIFA and make some money for it. And their fail. 

[EugeneBi]

Ringo12 wrote...

[
Witcher 2 has 16 different endings.

And that's what I'm saying there are how many ways to get the Arishok to leave? Kill them or let them take Isabella.

In Witcher 2 just in the PROLOGUE you have more decisions. The prologue is short in spil into a framed narrative during that part of the game before escaping prison. But depending on what you have done you can already change the political state of the Northern Kingdoms.

...

NO SPOILERS. Please.

[EugeneBi]

Elhanan wrote...

Open Question: Besides DAO and TW2, what games have had what you consider to be imporant multiple choices?

KOTOR, Jade Empire, Alpha Protocol

[Maverick827]

Ringo12 wrote...
In Witcher 2 just in the PROLOGUE you have more decisions. The prologue is short in spil into a framed narrative during that part of the game before escaping prison. But depending on what you have done you can already change the political state of the Northern Kingdoms.

Really?  Because I remember, like, four times where I was able to even say anything at all in the prologue.  In fact, that's one of my largest criticisms of TW2: I don't nearly get to partake in conversations as much as in DAO or DA2.  They just seem to go by, and then I'll get to say one thing at the end or something.
I just got to Flotsam and I've been released from Triss' terrible voice acting leash (will I ever be released from Geralt's? ), so I suppose it will get better now that I'm the only person talking to these NPCs.

[Chromie]

Maverick827 wrote...
Really?  Because I remember, like, four times where I was able to even say anything at all in the prologue.  In fact, that's one of my largest criticisms of TW2: I don't nearly get to partake in conversations as much as in DAO or DA2.  They just seem to go by, and then I'll get to say one thing at the end or something.
I just got to Flotsam and I've been released from Triss' terrible voice acting leash (will I ever be released from Geralt's? ), so I suppose it will get better now that I'm the only person talking to these NPCs.

You know sometimes what you do is more important then what you say.

[TheStrand221]

Plenty of people like TW2's voice acting, I think it's decent all the way around. Geralt is dry and channels Clint, which is appropriate. Triss isn't effusive, but I like her measured tone and think it's appropriate for someone of her powers and who has been an adviser to kings.

Roche (Ser Jory) is awesome, as are Foltest and Zoltan (and I don't like the "Dwarves are Scottish" trope).

A lot of this is preference though, I mean there are people who can't stand Merrill, but I think it's hard to make the case the acting is bad.

The prologue is setting up the story, so there aren't a lot of choices to make in dialogue it's more cut-scene style. However the conversation you have with Aryan is awesome and important, brief though it may be.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm not disappointed by The Witcher 2 because I had no plans to play it. And I'm not playing it. Because it makes many of the same mistakes as DA2, and then adds to that what sounds like a terrible action combat mechanic.

I couldn't make it even an hour into The Witcher, so TW2 doesn't really interest me at all. CD Projekt has already demonstrated that they're not making games I want to play.

Whereas, BioWare does generally make games I want to play. So when DA2 completely misses the mark in some ways, I need to complain about it.

I suspect there's a selection bias in the OP's analysis.