514 réponses à ce sujet

[erynnar]

I wasn't expecting Geralt to be my character, OP. In fact I expected the fact to be playing a guy to bother me more than it did. But Geralt is a well told, fully fleshed out character with a personality.

Hawke (even though I could change the face and gender, and not really the face for me--just couldn't have a different face for the voice) was shallow. The back story was sparse, family ties were almost nil (you got thrown into battle with your family who were a bunch of strangers and one gets curb stomped before you even get far from Lothering).

Picking Happy, Sneezy, or Douchey for my tone just didn't really make me feel Hawke was a real person. And like 88mphSlayer said, I think it has to do with the story telling. WItcher 2 and DAO both had great story telling. I think the potential was there in DA2. In fact I know it was, the writers at BioWare are just too talented for it not to be. I saw it's epicness so many times. It just didn't quite get the chance to make it.

Modifié par erynnar, 01 juin 2011 - 02:26 .

[Lumikki]

Most the time if you want to know and feel you character it's up to player to make it happen. Because in these type of games, you spend a lot of time with that character. If player doesn't general way like the game it self, they aren't gonna like the character.

Basicly if some doesn't like something, they look everyting in that more negative ways, like starting to look more issues to support they feeling. If player likes something then they usually ignore the issues and look situation more postive ways. That's just basic human behavior.

[erynnar]

Oh and I should have added Shepard too that better voiced protagonist with a more fully formed personality. Shepard is very well written.

[erynnar]

Lumikki wrote...

Most the time if you want to know and feel you character it's up to player to make it happen. Because in these type of games, you spend a lot of time with that character. If player doesn't general way like the game it self, they aren't gonna like the character.

Basicly if some doesn't like something, they look everyting in that more negative ways, like starting to look more issues to support they feeling. If player likes something then they usually ignore the issues and look situation more postive ways. That's just basic human behavior.

While I agree with this on some level, Hawke is boring, flat, and bascially comes off as two dimensional. Hawke's decisions or actions not really having an impact where it counts doesn't help that at all.

[Morroian]

I've said it before but my Hawkes are fully formed although I do admit that my Hawkes are in large part formed out of my imagination which is informed by the in game dialogue and choices.

[Chromie]

erynnar wrote...
While I agree with this on some level, Hawke is boring, flat, and bascially comes off as two dimensional. Hawke's decisions or actions not really having an impact where it counts doesn't help that at all.

And that's what makes me not care for DA2. I thought Kirkwall was supposed to changed based off our decisions.

[Faust1979]

 I never feel the characters are actually mine in any roleplaying game voiced or silent. You're just pick from a list of potential things for the character to say that's not roleplaying

[Aesieru]

Actually... that is...

You're taking on the control of another person... they're simply giving you which choices to use as befits the set environment (less you start yelling about witches or porn all day) and so ... you're roleplaying in a limited yet expansive environment.

[TEWR]

erynnar wrote...

I wasn't expecting Geralt to be my character, OP. In fact I expected the fact to be playing a guy to bother me more than it did. But Geralt is a well told, fully fleshed out character with a personality.

Hawke (even though I could change the face and gender, and not really the face for me--just couldn't have a different face for the voice) was shallow. The back story was sparse, family ties were almost nil (you got thrown into battle with your family who were a bunch of strangers and one gets curb stomped before you even get far from Lothering).

Picking Happy, Sneezy, or Douchey for my tone just didn't really make me feel Hawke was a real person. And like 88mphSlayer said, I think it has to do with the story telling. WItcher 2 and DAO both had great story telling. I think the potential was there in DA2. In fact I know it was, the writers at BioWare are just too talented for it not to be. I saw it's epicness so many times. It just didn't quite get the chance to make it.

Sneezy is Anders. He sneezed and.... well..... boom.


Also, agreed. I'm thinking up new ways that Hawke's story could've been amazing. It's.... saddening really.

[erynnar]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

erynnar wrote...

I wasn't expecting Geralt to be my character, OP. In fact I expected the fact to be playing a guy to bother me more than it did. But Geralt is a well told, fully fleshed out character with a personality.

Hawke (even though I could change the face and gender, and not really the face for me--just couldn't have a different face for the voice) was shallow. The back story was sparse, family ties were almost nil (you got thrown into battle with your family who were a bunch of strangers and one gets curb stomped before you even get far from Lothering).

Picking Happy, Sneezy, or Douchey for my tone just didn't really make me feel Hawke was a real person. And like 88mphSlayer said, I think it has to do with the story telling. WItcher 2 and DAO both had great story telling. I think the potential was there in DA2. In fact I know it was, the writers at BioWare are just too talented for it not to be. I saw it's epicness so many times. It just didn't quite get the chance to make it.

Sneezy is Anders. He sneezed and.... well..... boom.


Also, agreed. I'm thinking up new ways that Hawke's story could've been amazing. It's.... saddening really.

Yeah and no handkerchief big enough for that sneeze! I know the BioWare writers are talented so it isn't them.

[In Exile]

erynnar wrote...

I wasn't expecting Geralt to be my character, OP. In fact I expected the fact to be playing a guy to bother me more than it did. But Geralt is a well told, fully fleshed out character with a personality.

Hawke (even though I could change the face and gender, and not really the face for me--just couldn't have a different face for the voice) was shallow. The back story was sparse, family ties were almost nil (you got thrown into battle with your family who were a bunch of strangers and one gets curb stomped before you even get far from Lothering).

Bioware did this on purpose. Part of the backlash against Shepard was that Shepard was too fixed as a protagonist, whereas the Warden was such an empty cup that people could imagine lots of concepts.

So Hawke was designed as having three basic approaches to a talk (joke, be polite or suck up, be aggressive or dismissive) with three ways to deal with people (diplomatic, charismatic, direct)

The idea was that the player would fill in as much as possible and then mix and match responses, and you'd see yourself grow into a type of person based on the choices you'd make. So you act really aggressive and you see Hawke take on that character.

[erynnar]

Morroian wrote...

I've said it before but my Hawkes are fully formed although I do admit that my Hawkes are in large part formed out of my imagination which is informed by the in game dialogue and choices.

And that was how I felt about my Wardens. BioWare gave me enough of a foundation to build on, then my imagination made them who they were, not some icons  from a wheel and some cinematics. Mr. Gaider is right. There is no technology that will ever compete with the human imagination.

[erynnar]

In Exile wrote...

erynnar wrote...

I wasn't expecting Geralt to be my character, OP. In fact I expected the fact to be playing a guy to bother me more than it did. But Geralt is a well told, fully fleshed out character with a personality.

Hawke (even though I could change the face and gender, and not really the face for me--just couldn't have a different face for the voice) was shallow. The back story was sparse, family ties were almost nil (you got thrown into battle with your family who were a bunch of strangers and one gets curb stomped before you even get far from Lothering).

Bioware did this on purpose. Part of the backlash against Shepard was that Shepard was too fixed as a protagonist, whereas the Warden was such an empty cup that people could imagine lots of concepts.

So Hawke was designed as having three basic approaches to a talk (joke, be polite or suck up, be aggressive or dismissive) with three ways to deal with people (diplomatic, charismatic, direct)

The idea was that the player would fill in as much as possible and then mix and match responses, and you'd see yourself grow into a type of person based on the choices you'd make. So you act really aggressive and you see Hawke take on that character.

And something got seriously lost in translation for a lot of people it seems. Myself included. I prefer my cup that I can fill how I chose. The three choices seemed to work best when you choice one. When I tried to mix and match like a real person, my Hawke sounded psycotic. So Happy, Sneezy, or Douchey were the only personalities my Hawke had. Hence, shallow.

[In Exile]

erynnar wrote...
And something got seriously lost in translation for a lot of people it seems. Myself included. I prefer my cup that I can fill how I chose. The three choices seemed to work best when you choice one. When I tried to mix and match like a real person, my Hawke sounded psycotic. So Happy, Sneezy, or Douchey were the only personalities my Hawke had. Hence, shallow.

It fit very well with my gameplay style, but then I never thought RPGs supported characters that were more complex than a single word personality description with branches.

I didn't find that the styles didn't fit well, unless you fliped them around in the same conversation. And at that point a character should sound unbalanced. 

Certainly it might be that Hawke didn't work as intended. But the intention was to provide a looser character than Shepard, not a Shepard variant in the DA-verse.

[srieser]

I thought the DA:2 system was an improvement over Origins and Mass Effect. I formed a character who was largely diplomatic but could joke with friends in private (Joking with Varric and teasing Aveline). I also decided my Hawke had little patience for threats against his family, friends, and later the city. I would usually go with red options in those cases.

[neppakyo]

In Exile wrote...

Certainly it might be that Hawke didn't work as intended. But the intention was to provide a looser character than Shepard, not a Shepard variant in the DA-verse.

I thought personally it was the intent to dress shepard in fantasy clothing.

Just an opinion mind you. *points to his sig and dares you to click it*

[erynnar]

In Exile wrote...

erynnar wrote...
And something got seriously lost in translation for a lot of people it seems. Myself included. I prefer my cup that I can fill how I chose. The three choices seemed to work best when you choice one. When I tried to mix and match like a real person, my Hawke sounded psycotic. So Happy, Sneezy, or Douchey were the only personalities my Hawke had. Hence, shallow.

It fit very well with my gameplay style, but then I never thought RPGs supported characters that were more complex than a single word personality description with branches.

I didn't find that the styles didn't fit well, unless you fliped them around in the same conversation. And at that point a character should sound unbalanced. 

Certainly it might be that Hawke didn't work as intended. But the intention was to provide a looser character than Shepard, not a Shepard variant in the DA-verse.

Well, I don't know why they bothered then. They basically tried to give me ME in medieval drag. Why not just go with a well formed, complete, well told Shepard for DA instead of trying looser and winding up with paper doll Hawke?

I wasn't interested in filling the gaps for Hawke like I did my Warden too much of Hawke was already spoken for, but never reached for the all out like Shep. It seems they tried to do two different things and mix them and it fell flat again. 

Either they need to just stick with a Shepard (or Geralt) type character and forget the loose part, or let it be a cup we fill. This mixing crap only seems to give mixed messages.

edited due to spelling. UGH, too tired.

Modifié par erynnar, 01 juin 2011 - 05:31 .

[erynnar]

srieser wrote...

I thought the DA:2 system was an improvement over Origins and Mass Effect. I formed a character who was largely diplomatic but could joke with friends in private (Joking with Varric and teasing Aveline). I also decided my Hawke had little patience for threats against his family, friends, and later the city. I would usually go with red options in those cases.

I tried to be that varied and deep and Hawke couldn't take it. She wound up sounding like a psycho with personality affect disorder. I gave it up on my mage Hawke and went snark with a very light dash of diplomacy. She was amusing in her shallowness.

[Kidd]

srieser wrote...

I thought the DA:2 system was an improvement over Origins and Mass Effect. I formed a character who was largely diplomatic but could joke with friends in private (Joking with Varric and teasing Aveline). I also decided my Hawke had little patience for threats against his family, friends, and later the city. I would usually go with red options in those cases.

I feel the same way =\\ I got the benefits of ME's voice over for dramatic and cinematic effect, yet I wasn't as bound to be consistent in my dialogue choices as in ME. I picked what I felt was fitting for my character in every situation (and I'm not seeing the "psychotic" thing, ofc your tone will be slightly different when you joke for instance) and that was all there was to it.

I'll be so sad to see it revert back to a list of text which is basically the same thing only I have more to read and conversations sound kinda awkward since my character isn't responding in the same medium the NPCs are (I've actually had that issue ever since BG2:ToB introduced all its voice over, even though I still welcome this slight disconnect over having no voices at all).

[Lumikki]

I don't yet know much about Geralt and TW, but so far I don't even know why anyone would call this RPG. Sure you can roleplay Geralt, but only as fixed pre-define character.

I think one of RPG's main feature is ability customize your own character to be what player likes. In TW you are forced to this one character type and that's it. I call that adventure game, like Tomb Raider: Lara Croft. Pre-define character and style. What if I don't want to be male melee character?

Most of Biowares games allows variety as what you are, even if it's of course same role. Player can choose gender, look and profession. They aren't forced to be just one pre-define style.

[Chromie]

Lumikki wrote...

I don't yet know much about Geralt and TW, but so far I don't even know why anyone would call this RPG. Sure you can roleplay Geralt, but only as fixed pre-define character.

Are you telling me Planescape Torment is not an rpg?

A RPG is definately NOT defined by the fact you can create your own character ...

Definiton of a RPG :

A role-playing game (RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of  characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out  these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a
process of structured decision-making or character development. [1] Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines

Modifié par Ringo12, 01 juin 2011 - 09:40 .

[Aaleel]

Lumikki wrote...

I don't yet know much about Geralt and TW, but so far I don't even know why anyone would call this RPG. Sure you can roleplay Geralt, but only as fixed pre-define character.

I think one of RPG's main feature is ability customize your own character to be what player likes. In TW you are forced to this one character type and that's it. I call that adventure game, like Tomb Raider: Lara Croft. Pre-define character and style. What if I don't want to be male melee character?

Most of Biowares games allows variety as what you are, even if it's of course same role. Player can choose gender, look and profession. They aren't forced to be just one pre-define style.

What good is any of that if you have less control over the character's story.  Geralt may be a set character but your decisions and choices even the small ones have immediate and long term consequences.

Yes you can control what Hawke looks like and his/her job, but as far as the story, you're really following events and not controlling anything. 

I mean it all boils down to what your definition of role-playing is.

[Shazzie]

I'm also in the party of:

I wasn't expecting Geralt to be 'my character'. He's already his own character, just like he was in the first Witcher.

I was expecting Hawke to be my character. Like the Warden was in DA:O, since DA2 was its sequel. Imagine my (very unhappy) surprise.

The saddest thing? With Geralt, who is his own character and not my own, I was still able to make gameworld-altering decisions.... something that never happened with Hawke.

[Elhanan]

Different games; different environs. I am content with both the Wardens and Hawke.; no need to compare.

[Tommy6860]

Lumikki wrote...

I don't yet know much about Geralt and TW, but so far I don't even know why anyone would call this RPG. Sure you can roleplay Geralt, but only as fixed pre-define character.

I think one of RPG's main feature is ability customize your own character to be what player likes. In TW you are forced to this one character type and that's it. I call that adventure game, like Tomb Raider: Lara Croft. Pre-define character and style. What if I don't want to be male melee character?

Most of Biowares games allows variety as what you are, even if it's of course same role. Player can choose gender, look and profession. They aren't forced to be just one pre-define style.

While you're correct that in TW, you are forced to play one character and play that out the whole game, you at least do role play with Geralt more than you can role play in DA2. In the TW, you at least make chocies that affects plots and how you act out during the game. Not much anything along those lines can be said about DA2. What I am saying is, role playing isn't just about being about to choose and create your own character, like choosing  gender, race, etc.