514 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I don't yet know much about Geralt and TW, but so far I don't even know why anyone would call this RPG. Sure you can roleplay Geralt, but only as fixed pre-define character.

I think one of RPG's main feature is ability customize your own character to be what player likes. In TW you are forced to this one character type and that's it. I call that adventure game, like Tomb Raider: Lara Croft. Pre-define character and style. What if I don't want to be male melee character?

Most of Biowares games allows variety as what you are, even if it's of course same role. Player can choose gender, look and profession. They aren't forced to be just one pre-define style.

While you're correct that in TW, you are forced to play one character and play that out the whole game, you at least do role play with Geralt more than you can role play in DA2. In the TW, you at least make chocies that affects plots and how you act out during the game. Not much anything along those lines can be said about DA2. What I am saying is, role playing isn't just about being about to choose and create your own character, like choosing  gender, race, etc.

While I agree that you can roleplay fine with fixed character.

How ever, that doesn't mean every player can be conform to be one specific character type. Example I don't like much of playing male character and I hell don't like melee characters, even in DA series.

Also affect the plot, it not same as "I don't feel my character", it's more like " I don't feel my characters affect to story".  In TW you don't have personal feel of character unless you are fine with the "class and gender" what you are forced to play. I mean if player likes to play male melee fighter, then Geralt can be great character to play. How ever, I don't like it at all. People don't assume that everyone is fine with all styles and genders. That's why RPG's has customized characters.

It would be same as in DA series, we would remove character creation and allowed players to play just fixed male human warrior. That's limiting players ability be the character they want to be. What is also limiting players emotional connection to they characters as feel the character as they own.

Point here is that to really have GOOD RPG, you need both. Ability have character player likes to play and ability affect to story with action (choises) player does.

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 juin 2011 - 11:15 .

[Chromie]

Lumikki wrote...

Also affect the plot, it not same as "I don't feel my character", it's more like " I don't feel my characters affect to story".  In TW you don't have personal feel of character unless you are fine with the "class and gender" what you are forced to play. I mean if player likes to play male melee fighter, then Geralt can be great character to play. How ever, I don't like it at all. People don't assume that everyone is fine with all styles and genders. That's why RPG's has customized characters.

It would be same as in DA series, we would remove character creation and allowed players to play just fixed male human warrior. That's limiting players ability be the character they want to be. What is also limiting players emotional connection to they characters as feel the character as they own.

Point here is that to really have GOOD RPG, you need both. Ability have character player likes to play and ability affect to story with action (choises) player does.

Wha? In The Witcher 1 around Act II Geralt finds himself asking Shani or Triss, I forget, who he is and what kind of person he is. Based on your actions Geralt can find his motivation for finishing his quest or find what he believes in.
Ie: Helped Yaevain in the swamp contact Vivaldi. Geralt's journal updates "I believe in what the Scoia'tel are fighting for is this the right decision?" and that quest chain lasts until Act V I believe.

In Dragon Age 2 same difference really. We make our own Hawke but it's still a predefined character after all. We know less about Hawke then we do Geralt. in Origins at least we can see why our character has become a Warden so we have our motivation. Hell you can decline as many times as you want and you'll be conscripted.

[Lumikki]

You people are talking like story choises is all what defines you character. How about ability choose what kind of combat style you are using in combat parts of the story. I would assume that been mage or warrior or archer is little bit different. In TW you are forced as playing melee character. That is limiting players options as feel the character as you own or even define it as way you like.

Pre-define character as Hawke, yes, but not with pre-define gender or class like in TW. Can I play mage or archer in TW?

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 juin 2011 - 01:19 .

[marshalleck]

Lumikki wrote...

Pre-define character as Hawke, yes, but not with pre-define gender or class like in TW. Can I play mage or archer in TW?

Not an archer, but Geralt's magic signs have an entire major tree (one of three) dedicated to buffing up those abilities. The other two being swordsmanship and alchemy.

Modifié par marshalleck, 02 juin 2011 - 01:24 .

[neppakyo]

Lumikki wrote...

Pre-define character as Hawke, yes, but not with pre-define gender or class like in TW. Can I play mage or archer in TW?

Magic user? yes. Archer? No. Its based on a book, unless they make another game in the universe which would allow that (by book author's permission of course). All witchers are swordsmen primarily anyways.

[marshalleck]

In before neppakyo!

[neppakyo]

marshalleck wrote...

In before neppakyo!

You son-of-a-female dog!

[Lumikki]

Okey, let see when I try to progress Geralt as mage when leveling up as not taking any sword related melee "talents". See how it works.

People are complaining, how DA2 has lack of choises. What is valid fine complain. How ever, saying it's okey TW to have limited choises in other part of RPG, that's hypocrisy.

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 juin 2011 - 01:31 .

[neppakyo]

Lumikki wrote...

People are complaining, how DA2 has lack of choises. What is valid fine complain. How ever, saying it's okey TW to have limited choises in other part of RPG, that's hypocrisy.

Not at all. Not within the limits of each game universe. The TW universe is limited to what the books have described what a witcher can do.

DAO described you can do anything, then DA2 limited it.

So in the context of each universe, your hypocrisy statement is invalid 

[Lumikki]

So, it's okey to complain in one game how it's not offering enough choises, because universe is "larger". While it's fine to create "smaller linear" universe where player has no class or gendre choises, even if mages, archers and female character exist there. Are you saying I have no right to complain it?

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 juin 2011 - 02:10 .

[neppakyo]

Lumikki wrote...

So, it's okey to complain in one game how it's not offering enough choises, because universe is "larger". While it's fine to create "smaller linear" universe where player has no class or gendre choises, even if mages, archers and female character exist there. Are you saying I have no right to complain it?

You can complain all you want! The two games offer vastly different experiences for the main character. One is a set bioware character with a short leash on how you develop him/her. The other is based on a book with a set personality that you can alter in different driections, and who's every choice affects everything around him.

Hrm, hope i explained that alright.

[Lumikki]

Yes, you have explained it. In technical design base, we agree, other ways we disagree.

[neppakyo]

Lumikki wrote...

Yes, you have explained it. In technical design base, we agree, other ways we disagree.

I'd like to hear more on your disagreements.

[Lumikki]

neppakyo wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Yes, you have explained it. In technical design base, we agree, other ways we disagree.

I'd like to hear more on your disagreements.

1. Race (if game has those)
2. Gendre (choise of male or female)
3. class or skills (to define different kind fo character as profession and gameplay wise)
4. Alligment (as ability have different kind of attitude when playing the story.)
5. Customation (as characters look)
6. Items (Customation and tools, looting or/and buyign them)
7. Choises (in story)

DA2 has 2,3,4,5, 6 and limited 7
TW has 4, 6 and 7

This is why we disagree. You put HIGH value on 7, while totally say 2,3,5 has no meaning as "Characters feel". This thread is about compare "feel of character", so you can't just dismiss attributes what is affecting it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 juin 2011 - 04:20 .

[neppakyo]

Lumikki wrote...

1. Race (if game has those)
2. Gendre (choise of male or female)
3. class or skills (to define different kind fo character as profession adn gameplay wise)
4. Alligment (as ability have different kind of attitude when playing the story.)
5. Customation (as characters look)
6. Items (Customation and tools, looting or/and buyign them)
7. Choises (in story)

DA2 has 2,3,4,5, 6 and limited 7
TW has 4, 6 and 7

This is why we disagree. You put HIGH value on 7, while totally say 2,3,5 has no meaning as "Characters feel". This thread is about compare "feel of character", so you can't just dismiss attributes what is affecting it.

TW2 has 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Better crafting system than DA2. You can create your own armor, swords. Not to mention crafting bombs, potions etc, along with buying what I listed.

I do somewhat agree, but imho going into the Witcher you have to be aware of the race/gender portion that doesn't exist. Again because of the books and of the main character who is central to the story. Note, Geralt isn't human, he's a mutant, and lives far longer than a regular human. With the non-human races being suppressed and hunted, it wouldnt make sense to be able to play one of them, as you would be jailed and/or killed. Would make for a very short game.

[Chromie]

*Grabs popcorn*

I like where this is going.

[Lumikki]

neppakyo wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

1. Race (if game has those)
2. Gendre (choise of male or female)
3. class or skills (to define different kind fo character as profession adn gameplay wise)
4. Alligment (as ability have different kind of attitude when playing the story.)
5. Customation (as characters look)
6. Items (Customation and tools, looting or/and buyign them)
7. Choises (in story)

DA2 has 2,3,4,5, 6 and limited 7
TW has 4, 6 and 7

This is why we disagree. You put HIGH value on 7, while totally say 2,3,5 has no meaning as "Characters feel". This thread is about compare "feel of character", so you can't just dismiss attributes what is affecting it.

TW2 has 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Better crafting system than DA2. You can create your own armor, swords. Not to mention crafting bombs, potions etc, along with buying what I listed.

I wasn't talking TW2, because I haven't played it yet. I'm talking TW1. Actually my list seem to miss one, but it doesn't matter as both games have it.

8. Character progression ( As ability advance in profession selected)

I do somewhat agree, but imho going into the Witcher you have to be aware of the race/gender portion that doesn't exist.

Yeah, we know this.

Again because of the books and of the main character who is central to the story.

Here we go again, this is excuse that something doesn't exist. There is no excuse that basic RPG feature's are missing in game. In computer game you can change the main characters gender easyly and even the class, in the book it's allways fixed to be one of other. That's limitation of books, but not games. Computer based RPG's offer more freedom in main character. So, there is no excuse to have so limited main character lore. Meaning Developers choose to do so, they did not have to do so.

Note, Geralt isn't human, he's a mutant, and lives far longer than a regular human. With the non-human races being suppressed and hunted, it wouldnt make sense to be able to play one of them, as you would be jailed and/or killed. Would make for a very short game.

What Geralt is, has no meaning, it's still one "race" and that's all, but DA2 has also one race so they are even in that front.

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 juin 2011 - 06:35 .

[Chromie]

Lumikki wrote...

Here we go again, this is excuse that something doesn't exist. There is no excuse that basic RPG feature's are missing in game. In computer game you can change the main characters gender easyly and even the class, in the book it's allways fixed to be one of other. That's limitation of books, but not games. Computer based RPG's offer more freedom in main character. So, there is no excuse to have so limited main character lore. Meaning Developers choose to do so, they did not have to do so.

Are you serious? The games are based on a book series! You expect CDProjekt to just start pulling stuff out their ***? What do you think this is Dragon Age 2?

[Elhanan]

Ringo12 wrote...

Are you serious? The games are based on a book series! You expect CDProjekt to just start pulling stuff out their ***? What do you think this is Dragon Age 2?

Books based on games? A better game than some acknowledge? A game with Forums?
 
A game without squirrels?

[Corto81]

Lumikki wrote...

Again because of the books and of the main character who is central to the story.

Here we go again, this is excuse that something doesn't exist. There is no excuse that basic RPG feature's are missing in game. In computer game you can change the main characters gender easyly and even the class, in the book it's allways fixed to be one of other. That's limitation of books, but not games. Computer based RPG's offer more freedom in main character. So, there is no excuse to have so limited main character lore. Meaning Developers choose to do so, they did not have to do so.

At no point was The Witcher series advertised as anything other than a Geralt-centerted story.

Even comparing Hawke to Geralt is ridiculous - the comparison should be between Hawke and the Warden.

However, I can honestly say Geralt felt more "me" than any of my Hawkes - because when I did something, the world reacted and changed.
Something that never happened with Hawke.

The Witcher 2 succeded in the type of game the devs were trying to make (and the Week 1 sales certainly prove that, as well as the general critical acclaim).
And having Geralt in that game works.
( I prefer custom character and companions - BW style -  but I also prefer a good RPG game over a bad one)

Dragon Age 2, on the other hand, did not - at least according to the critics and the sales, before someone comes in again shouting "opinion!!!!".
And Hawke feels detached, not realistic, and not involved - a mediocre character to fit into a mediocre game.

Modifié par Corto81, 02 juin 2011 - 07:14 .

[Chromie]

Elhanan wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Are you serious? The games are based on a book series! You expect CDProjekt to just start pulling stuff out their ***? What do you think this is Dragon Age 2?

Books based on games? A better game than some acknowledge? A game with Forums?
 
A game without squirrels?

Squirrel or Scoia'tael?

I totally agree with Corto81 . A bad rpg with customization is still a bad rpg. Geralt's actions had consequences and he reacted to his world and his decisions. Hawke never even mourned his mother. All we get is "Mother's room I can't bring myself to change anything" big deal. Everything is so static. And I'll say this just so you know I like DA2 if Ihad to rate it somewhere from a 7-8 at most. I was expecting a great rpg but nope Witcher 2 gave it to me.

Modifié par Ringo12, 02 juin 2011 - 07:20 .

[Elhanan]

Ringo12 wrote...

Squirrel or Scoia'tael?

I totally agree with Corto81 . A bad rpg with customization is still a bad rpg. Geralt's actions had consequences and he reacted to his world and his decisions. Hawke never even mourned his mother. All we get is "Mother's room I can't bring myself to change anything" big deal. Everything is so static. And I'll say this just so you know I like DA2 if Ihad to rate it somewhere from a 7-8 at most. I was expecting a great rpg but nope Witcher 2 gave it to me.

The TW2 poster said squirrels, and I am still chuckling....

But DA2 is not a bad RPG. My Hawke mourned his Mother; the visits from friends and codolences from the staff were touching, and in the aftermath was better than the quest that saw her demise. IMO.

[Chromie]

Elhanan wrote...

The TW2 poster said squirrels, and I am still chuckling....

But DA2 is not a bad RPG. My Hawke mourned his Mother; the visits from friends and codolences from the staff were touching, and in the aftermath was better than the quest that saw her demise. IMO.

Squirrels are what the humans in Witcher call the non-humans who are fighting for their civil rights...or terrorists depends on who you ask.

I'm not saying DA2 is terrible I meant was why should a developer make a game based off a book and then change a lot of it? What point was the book then. If we didn't play as Geralt or a Witcher I could understand but Witcher's are male.

Yes yes in you opinion but Hawke didn't really seem to care after that or even after losing a sibling. While Geralt tries really harder to find his lover and to clear his name. Being mistaken for a kingslayer makes it hard to live. All the while he has memories returning to him and is seeking help to understand whats going on. It just adds to the character. Geralt may be predefined but he feels more fleshed out then Hawke. Imo both games are set protagonist since you don't know Hawke's backstory or can change anything or anyone or even yourself.

[Elhanan]

Ringo12 wrote...

Squirrels are what the humans in Witcher call the non-humans who are fighting for their civil rights...or terrorists depends on who you ask.

I'm not saying DA2 is terrible I meant was why should a developer make a game based off a book and then change a lot of it? What point was the book then. If we didn't play as Geralt or a Witcher I could understand but Witcher's are male.

Yes yes in you opinion but Hawke didn't really seem to care after that or even after losing a sibling. While Geralt tries really harder to find his lover and to clear his name. Being mistaken for a kingslayer makes it hard to live. All the while he has memories returning to him and is seeking help to understand whats going on. It just adds to the character. Geralt may be predefined but he feels more fleshed out then Hawke. Imo both games are set protagonist since you don't know Hawke's backstory or can change anything or anyone or even yourself.

I know now, but as everyone keeps reminding me, I have not played the game. So when I read this, I get a smile:

Now for the matter at hand the 2 confrontational groups.
IN DA2 it is the mages and the Knights in TW2 it starts out as Squirrels vs Roche's guys. OF course that spins into a kings vs kings, Mages vs Kings, vergen vs Henselt, Mages vs the Witcher, the witcher vs the king slayer and of course Nilfgard vs EVERY ONE!!!.

Hawke seemed to care in my game; both times. I agree that more in depth dialogue would have been nice, so I was pleased to discover that Dog offered a bit more interaction with family and friends. And while Hawke may not have gotten a lot of options to mope, we certainly heard about the loss of the siblings from others, and had the opp to play off of that.

And I enjoy the notion that we produce Hawke's past; not everything laid out in Power Point displays. RPG is about imagination; not just possible character recreation.

[fchopin]

How can i feel that Hawke is my character when Hawke is just a pawn in the game without any influence in anything important? I also have no choice in what my character says as there is no way of knowing what will come out of Hawke’s mouth.

I don’t call a character i have no control on what he or she says as my character and never will.