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"I don't feel Hawke is my character," vs The Witcher?


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#426
Realmzmaster

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Ringo12 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...

So you tell me that CDPR should make another stupid, hollow "hero" ?


YES

Of course I don't mean hollow, but it's seem to be only way to make some people understand.
Without ability customize you character as player likes, you don't have good RPG at all, you have adventure game.


This coming from someone who thinks Tomb Raider is an rpg.


I do believe the actual quote was:

Like Tomb Raider is about Lara Croft's and her adventures in the world.


Followed at the end by

All above games are 3rd person RPG's. (Tomb Raider is more adventure.)


So a qualification about Tomb Raider was made.

#427
Lumikki

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MDT1 wrote...


I see a difference between character customisation and appereance customization.
The first form of cutomizationis far more important to me (decisions etc.) and very present in TW2.
Though I surely agree that full appereance customization often helps and is generally  a valuable feature.
Da2 feels like I can customize my appereance to a certain extend but not my character.


I'm not talking just customize the appereance, but also customize the profession what affects how the character is played in combat. Lets call it from simplifyed ways: class choise

class choise allows player to play differently they character. Like example DA2 has Warrior, rogue and mage. They play differently and give players different kind of experience and define they character to be different. It's totally different if I'm Geralt the warrior or Geralt the mage, because combat will play totally different ways.

In my opinion there is multible aspect how character is defined, not just visual and gameplay, but also emotional ways as connection to player. So, it comes all these little aspect how to define character. What you people say here is that Hawke in DA2 allowed to customize you character, but failed. What's I'm saying is that TW doesn't even allow, it force you pre-define character. Can player feel Geralt as good own charcater is based how does player in generally like playing that character. In my opinion forcing for players pre-define character isn't good way to do any RPG.

Now don't get me wrong Geralt is well writen character and story telling is great, but it doesn't change the situation that it force players in one pre-define character, what isn't good thing. What if player doesn't like this kind of Geralt, never consider that? Example my problem is, I don't like male character or melee character or scars or muscular and so on.. How I can like character what has multible attributes what I hate. Do I have choise, no because pre-define character. Real good RPG's are from start define so that player can customize they charcater so that they like to play that character.

Now if story and game fail to bring that character alive for player, then that's other question, but at least there was possibility for it. In pre-define character it's totally based does player like the pre-define character or not.

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 juin 2011 - 07:47 .


#428
Lumikki

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Realmzmaster wrote...


I do believe the actual quote was:

Like Tomb Raider is about Lara Croft's and her adventures in the world.


Followed at the end by

All above games are 3rd person RPG's. (Tomb Raider is more adventure.)


So a qualification about Tomb Raider was made.

First list was showing "named" characters adventuring in the world.

Second was commenting them to be 3rd person games, but because sentense had RPG in end, I had to add the comment about Tomb Raider, because it wasn't RPG in the list. You assume the meaning to be different, because you choose to take it the way you wanted.

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 juin 2011 - 07:30 .


#429
Dariuszp

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Roleplaying game. Its about taking a role. In Witcher you take role of the Wicher. Gerald of Rivia. Main character from the witcher saga. End of story.
Character customization is imposible because you got well described character. Just because of that.

I know that everyone like character customization but look at Planetscape Tourment or Gothic.

If you dont like role that you need to play then just dont play it. I dont like Call of Duty. I dont play Call of Duty. Also i dont know ANYONE who would not like Gerald :P
Anyway, you cannot dislike him for his chocies or his character because all chocies are yours. And consequences as BIG (missing a town ? never happened in any game), So you can dislike scars or white hair but this is Gerald. It is about Gerald. Sorry.

#430
MDT1

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@ Lumikki

Don't get me wrong, I was very hesitant to play TW because I also prefer female characters as they are just so refreshing (though I'm straight male). But in TW2 I fast realized that I could solve problems the way I would have imagined it, perhaps thats just sheer luck because of a mental simmilarty with their writer, but Geralt of Rivia quickly becam "my Geralt".

Would I prefer to play "A Witcher 2" (or A witchess (?!?)), or a sorceress, scoia'thel, quite sure, but for me TW2 is still a great RPG experience.

Modifié par MDT1, 02 juin 2011 - 08:05 .


#431
marshalleck

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Dariuszp wrote...

Roleplaying game. Its about taking a role.

That's casting the net a bit wide, don't you think? I mean, in Gears of War you take on the role of Marcu Fenix. Does that make Gears of War a role-playing game?

#432
Mr.House

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marshalleck wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...

Roleplaying game. Its about taking a role.

That's casting the net a bit wide, don't you think? I mean, in Gears of War you take on the role of Marcu Fenix. Does that make Gears of War a role-playing game?

Do you make choices with Marcus? Do you define his personality? No, thus Gears is not a RPG, it's a crappy shooter with horrid controls.

Modifié par Mr.House, 02 juin 2011 - 08:04 .


#433
marshalleck

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Mr.House wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...

Roleplaying game. Its about taking a role.

That's casting the net a bit wide, don't you think? I mean, in Gears of War you take on the role of Marcu Fenix. Does that make Gears of War a role-playing game?

Do you make choices with Marcus? Do you define his personality? No, thus Gears is not a RPG, it's a crappy shooter with horrid controls.

Exactly my point. RPGs are about more than merely assuming a role. Choice and consequence matters, and in this regard Witcher 2 succeeds, even with a somewhat predefined protagonist like Geralt. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 02 juin 2011 - 08:07 .


#434
erynnar

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MDT1 wrote...

@ Lumikki

Don't get me wrong, I was very hesitant to play TW because I also prefer female characters as they are just so refreshing (though I'm straight male). But in TW2 I fast realized that I could solve problems the way I would have imagined it, perhaps thats just sheer luck because of a mental simmilarty with their writer, but Geralt of Rivia quickly becam "my Geralt".

Would I prefer to play "A Witcher 2" (or A witchess (?!?)), or a sorceress, scoia'thel, quite sure, but for me TW2 is still a great RPG experience.


I am a woman and I like playing female roles too. I felt the same way you did about Geralt and TW2. I was hesitant, but now that I am playing it, he is my Geralt. And it is more fun than I thought I would have. Colore me surprised.

#435
marshalleck

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erynnar wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

@ Lumikki

Don't get me wrong, I was very hesitant to play TW because I also prefer female characters as they are just so refreshing (though I'm straight male). But in TW2 I fast realized that I could solve problems the way I would have imagined it, perhaps thats just sheer luck because of a mental simmilarty with their writer, but Geralt of Rivia quickly becam "my Geralt".

Would I prefer to play "A Witcher 2" (or A witchess (?!?)), or a sorceress, scoia'thel, quite sure, but for me TW2 is still a great RPG experience.


I am a woman and I like playing female roles too. I felt the same way you did about Geralt and TW2. I was hesitant, but now that I am playing it, he is my Geralt. And it is more fun than I thought I would have. Colore me surprised.

Likewise, I'm a guy and FemShep is my preferred Shepard. Projecting your own identity onto a character is certainly one valid way to roleplay, but it definitely limits one's options and precludes a wealth of possibilities from being willing to try a character that's not you.

Modifié par marshalleck, 02 juin 2011 - 08:12 .


#436
Mr.House

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marshalleck wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...

Roleplaying game. Its about taking a role.

That's casting the net a bit wide, don't you think? I mean, in Gears of War you take on the role of Marcu Fenix. Does that make Gears of War a role-playing game?

Do you make choices with Marcus? Do you define his personality? No, thus Gears is not a RPG, it's a crappy shooter with horrid controls.

Exactly my point. RPGs are about more than merely assuming a role. Choice and consequence matters, and in this regard Witcher 2 succeeds, even with a predefined protagonist like Geralt. 

SInce I have not played TW2 I really can't agree or disagree with you :lol:

#437
marshalleck

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Mr.House wrote...
SInce I have not played TW2 I really can't agree or disagree with you :lol:

Not to worry, I wasn't seeking validation. I've read your other posts around these forums and I think you and I have similar expectations. :police:

#438
Mr.House

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marshalleck wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
SInce I have not played TW2 I really can't agree or disagree with you :lol:

Not to worry, I wasn't seeking validation. I've read your other posts around these forums and I think you and I have similar expectations. :police:

I don't like Geralt my self, but I have heard Geralt is alot better in TW2 so that's good. I personly love Hawkle for many reasons. Do I wish her choices mattered and she was more important? You bet, but at the same time I liked that she was just there and she had to fix this big mess her "friend" or lover made.

In the end Hawke and Geralt(TW and books I'm going by) has nothing on the Bhaalspawn, Namless one and Courier IMHO, but I do like Hawke my self.

Now Shepard......well you probaly have read my rants on how Walters ruined everything I liked about her :P

But that's going off topic :D

Modifié par Mr.House, 02 juin 2011 - 08:21 .


#439
marshalleck

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Mr.House wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
SInce I have not played TW2 I really can't agree or disagree with you :lol:

Not to worry, I wasn't seeking validation. I've read your other posts around these forums and I think you and I have similar expectations. :police:

I don't like Geralt my self, but I have heard Geralt is alot better in TW2 so that's good. I personly love Hawkle for many reasons. Do I wish her chocies mattered and she was more important? You bet, but at the same time I liked that she was just there and she had to fix this big mess her "friend" or lover made.

In the end Hawke and Geralt(TW and books I'm going by) has nothing on the Bhaalspawn, Namless one and Courier IMHO, but I do like Hawke my self.

Now Shepard......well you probaly have read my rants on how Walters ruined everything I liked about her :P

But that's going off topic :D

Heh. Without intending to flagellate this poor dead horse yet again, I felt that DA2 despite its flaws was much more an RPG than ME2 could ever hope to be. 

#440
Mr.House

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marshalleck wrote...
Heh. Without intending to flagellate this poor dead horse yet again, I felt that DA2 despite its flaws was much more an RPG than ME2 could ever hope to be. 

Could be because Gaider is not a hack like a certain ME writer ;)

#441
erynnar

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Mr.House wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
Heh. Without intending to flagellate this poor dead horse yet again, I felt that DA2 despite its flaws was much more an RPG than ME2 could ever hope to be. 

Could be because Gaider is not a hack like a certain ME writer ;)


Okay Mr. House, you made me giggle with that one. Alas, like Mr. House with TW2 I haven't played ME yet (well a little of ME2, but I want to try ME1 first on the recs of those here). So I can't say if ME is less of an RPG. But you both give me food for thought. Thanks! Image IPB

#442
Chromie

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Mr.House wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
Heh. Without intending to flagellate this poor dead horse yet again, I felt that DA2 despite its flaws was much more an RPG than ME2 could ever hope to be. 

Could be because Gaider is not a hack like a certain ME writer ;)


Ha...sure whatever you say. :sick:

#443
Realmzmaster

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Lumikki wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...


I do believe the actual quote was:

Like Tomb Raider is about Lara Croft's and her adventures in the world.


Followed at the end by

All above games are 3rd person RPG's. (Tomb Raider is more adventure.)


So a qualification about Tomb Raider was made.

First list was showing "named" characters adventuring in the world.

Second was commenting them to be 3rd person games, but because sentense had RPG in end, I had to add the comment about Tomb Raider, because it wasn't RPG in the list. You assume the meaning to be different, because you choose to take it the way you wanted.


Actually I was responding to Ringo12 pointing out where you made the qualification about Tomb Raider. I was agreeing with you.

#444
Arrtis

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KiddDaBeauty wrote...

I'm confused. Browsing these forums, there's a whole lot of posts where people who don't like voiced protagonists go on about how they never felt Hawke was "their" character, rather a character they just borrowed for a while. Yet even so, the Witcher is praised all over the place. I don't mean to belittle the Witcher - I haven't even played the game so what do I know in reality - but from what I've gathered you have far less control in the Witcher than in DA2.

Checklist time! And feel free to correct my checklist if I'm wrong about something, cause I totally don't mean to throw mud around here. I'm merely curious about people's reactions.

Fixed voice: Both games
Fixed gender: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character look: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character personality: Neither, both allow for interpretations of the same character
Fixed sexuality: Only the Witcher, not in DA2



THose are tiny things that make little to no difference to those who are not very shallow.

#445
Elhanan

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Arrtis wrote...

THose are tiny things that make little to no difference to those who are not very shallow.


Then explain your disinterest.... Image IPB

#446
marshalleck

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Ringo12 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
Heh. Without intending to flagellate this poor dead horse yet again, I felt that DA2 despite its flaws was much more an RPG than ME2 could ever hope to be. 

Could be because Gaider is not a hack like a certain ME writer ;)


Ha...sure whatever you say. :sick:


David Gaider worked on Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, KotOR, Dragon Age..what has Mac done? Character writer for Jade Empire and Mass Effect, before partially taking over from Drew Karpyshyn?

#447
Guest_simfamUP_*

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Mr.House wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...

Roleplaying game. Its about taking a role.

That's casting the net a bit wide, don't you think? I mean, in Gears of War you take on the role of Marcu Fenix. Does that make Gears of War a role-playing game?

Do you make choices with Marcus? Do you define his personality? No, thus Gears is not a RPG, it's a crappy shooter with horrid controls.

Exactly my point. RPGs are about more than merely assuming a role. Choice and consequence matters, and in this regard Witcher 2 succeeds, even with a predefined protagonist like Geralt. 

SInce I have not played TW2 I really can't agree or disagree with you :lol:


I think you will really like it. But that's the problem with predefined characters. They have their personality. So the player might like that personality or not. As opposed to characters *you* define.

#448
Aaleel

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KiddDaBeauty wrote...

I'm confused. Browsing these forums, there's a whole lot of posts where people who don't like voiced protagonists go on about how they never felt Hawke was "their" character, rather a character they just borrowed for a while. Yet even so, the Witcher is praised all over the place. I don't mean to belittle the Witcher - I haven't even played the game so what do I know in reality - but from what I've gathered you have far less control in the Witcher than in DA2.

Checklist time! And feel free to correct my checklist if I'm wrong about something, cause I totally don't mean to throw mud around here. I'm merely curious about people's reactions.

Fixed voice: Both games
Fixed gender: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character look: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character personality: Neither, both allow for interpretations of the same character
Fixed sexuality: Only the Witcher, not in DA2

Now I'm not hating on fixed main characters. I play and enjoy way too many jrpgs to do that! But it just strikes me as odd. Perhaps the ones hating on DA2 in this regard dislike the Witcher even more than DA2? I would assume as much if it wasn't for the fact I see people pulling the "Hawke doesn't feel like my character" card so darn often and also see the "the Witcher is a lot better rpg" card as well. Figure two things that pop up in every second thread ought to have at least some people who nod at both statements.


Well what's more important, controlling what the character looks like, or controlling what happens in the story, and having the game shape on your decisions. 

Geralt is a pre built character but you had more control over events in his story, and your decisions carried more weight short and long term.

Once you create your character, that aspect is done, but shaping the game with decisions is ongoing.

#449
Maverick827

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Aaleel wrote...

Well what's more important, controlling what the character looks like, or controlling what happens in the story, and having the game shape on your decisions.

I'll take the third option: controlling who your character is, and what he or she believes, values, and cares about.

#450
Aaleel

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Maverick827 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Well what's more important, controlling what the character looks like, or controlling what happens in the story, and having the game shape on your decisions.

I'll take the third option: controlling who your character is, and what he or she believes, values, and cares about.


Well aside from playing as female and typing out a name that's never used, deciding what the character values, believes in and cares about is in both games.