514 réponses à ce sujet

[Krypplingz]

Geralt was never my character. He was a premade character with a fixed persoanlity and an extended backstory. I simply took his role for a while and led him trough a part in his life. He still had his core values, he still had his own ideas but I was free to act within those boundaries.

Hawke was never really my character. He was a refugee from Lothering, he had a family and he did some stuff. His voice and general tones were fixed, so I couldn't really create a 'Brand new Hawke'.
But the stuff didn't matter, he just pushed on some events and they went on without any meaningful control from his side.
[Rant]
But because I could customize his look and I could mold his personality and ideas, I was inserted into this character and Hawke became me. So in the end when I saw that Hawke (I) had pretty much failed Hawke's (my) loved ones were all dead or distant and Hawke (I) was forced back on the run, I felt depressed. I felt no glee over finishing the game, I felt no sence of accomplisment, I felt sad and wanted to forget the whole game.
So honestly, I would have prefered that Hawke had no customization, his personality was a bit more defined and that he had some decided ideas of his own (He didn't like cats and Anders obsession with them scared him).
[End]

[Elhanan]

Khayness wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Big difference for me: not going to play TW games. A couple of reasons is that TW requires more reported twitch skills, and the focus on the so called Mature materials (eg; sex. nudity, profanity, etc) is not for me.

Those so called mature materials are more on the line of choices like saving your friend from a gruesome death or saving a kingdom and its subjects, let a man to fulfill his revenge or saving a ruler who is a bastard, but the status quo needs him.

I didn't get caught in the bias filter and actually looked beneath the surface.

Some of the fans here do that too evidently; camera was not meant for those reasons, and is certainly not mature.



DAO and DA2 have a fair share of mature plotlines including murder, rape, social-economical injustice, etc. No neew to wander deeper into the minefield of things I dislike anyway.

[laertid]

*Captain Obvious mode on* TW2 and DA2 are different games *Captain Obvious mode off*

I think people wanted DA2 to be more like DA:O and, for example, BG - freedom of choice, your own and unique character, your own and unique path. They didn't want DA2 to be like The Witcher. TW is based on the book, and Geralt is the main character of the book - so we play Geralt. But DA is based on... you know, world. The world of Thedas. You can be anything you want to be © in Thedas, you're not limited by Geralt's image. We already had enough games where we are playing fixed character, so we want a game where we can make our own character.

[blothulfur]

I felt divorced from Hawke during the first scene where it shows a person who is clearly not my Hawke and thus sets the tone for the game, there is no reason for this as Cassandra has a book with all the champions companions depicted in detail so she knows what he looks like and could have been solved by just sticking a helm on him.

However I don't mind fixed protagonists such as Geralt, the Avatar or the Nameless One and I actually like the voice acting provided by Nicholas Boulton (well the aggresive stuff anyway), it's just that Hawke reacts to the crap going down around him through yet more waves of awesome combat while the witcher acts and the world reacts to his deeds thus giving Geralt a much more decisive and appealing character.

Plus Geralts backstory and his quest to identify himself which is an ongoing part from the first game more solidly grounds him in the much more believable world of the witcher while with the doing nothing time skips, complete ignorance of your own or families history and the utter unimportance of Hawkes role in the game makes the champion just feels like a passenger in the story rather than the protagonist.

The dark and gritty world of the witcher is done right because just occasionally you can achieve a remarkably good ending for some quest that makes you think all of your toil and patience paid off and you have made a difference to realistic and likeable characters such as Vincent Meis and Carmen in the first game, the little victory count all the more because they are so few and far between.

The witcher 2 isn't perfect for me (but then again what game is), the combat feels slightly off with strange pauses before actions execute I suspect because of the console controller being enabled and the crafting and accumulation of junk just doesn't appeal to me because i've no desire to collect old bits of cloth and twine let the bloody armourer do that crap and i'll buy the finished product from him but overall with its living reactive world and byzantine machinations played out on such a beautiful stage I find it easy to immerse myself, get lost and wander through the game whereas with DA2 I just endured the endless waves of awesome until eventually growing sick of it and putting it aside.

To be honest I would have preferred a combat system more like origins mixed with kotor/nwn but I can stick it to easy and endure the combat because there is so much more to the world than just that one aspect.

Modifié par blothulfur, 23 mai 2011 - 12:20 .

[Khayness]

Elhanan wrote...

Some of the fans here do that too evidently; camera was not meant for those reasons, and is certainly not mature.



DAO and DA2 have a fair share of mature plotlines including murder, rape, social-economical injustice, etc. No neew to wander deeper into the minefield of things I dislike anyway.

I don't expect from simple peasants and common footsoldiers in a Dark Fantasy setting to talk like upper class British gents from the 19th century, nor from common people to be extremely celibate and prude.

It fits the world.

Modifié par Khayness, 23 mai 2011 - 12:22 .

[Elhanan]

Khayness wrote...

I don't expect from simple peasants and common footsoldiers in a Dark Fantasy setting to talk like upper class British gents from the 19th century, nor from common people to be extremely celibate and prude.

It fits the world.

Personally, my focus is not the daily eating, bathing, and procreating of the world; tis more on the story being told within it. If you want to see nude pixelated characters going on like rabbits, there are plenty of mods that appear for such 'mature' indv soon enough.

[Khayness]

Elhanan wrote...


Personally, my focus is not the daily eating, bathing, and procreating of the world; tis more on the story being told within it. If you want to see nude pixelated characters going on like rabbits, there are plenty of mods that appear for such 'mature' indv soon enough.

I hope you know that the sex scenes are optional.

Just like I can prevent Hawke looking like a butcher who works in late saturdays because he/she has an unhealthy obsession for blood.

[laertid]

(after some thoughts)

If we had a DA-series game, where we play a fixed, but interesting pre-made character (but I suppose, it should be somebody whom we have already seen in the game... maybe young Duncan? Alistair? Cullen? Fenris, Zevran, Varric?) - for me it will be good too. Like Leliana's Song, but a full game, not DLC. Hawke just was... somewhere in between. Not a fixed character, like Geralt: not our own character, like The Warden.

(I like Hawke, and I like Geralt, so I'm feeling myself like a mabari trying to explain something in words. Well... maybe I'll get a cookie from Morrigan at least.)

[RangerSG]

First of all, I think many people who are unhappy with Hawke feel that way because they want the freedom Origins gave them, and they feel *that* is the identity of the Dragon Age franchise, as a "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate."

I said before, I think there's plenty of room in Bioware's stable for a "Witcher in Thedas" game. Just don't call it Dragon Age, because it isn't.

But even then, I have to agree that all the so-called 'choices' in DA2 end in the same place. How many quests actually close off opportunities? Witcher reacts to choices time and again. DA:O even had quests that took your choices seriously. I can only think of 2 places where your choice has any implication on gameplay down the road. One with the Deep Roads, the other in the brothel. And of those, only 1 is truly significant.

I like DA2, but it should have been much better. And it's not a worthy sequel to Origins.

[Aargh12]

Elhanan wrote...
Personally, my focus is not the daily eating, bathing, and procreating of the world; tis more on the story being told within it. If you want to see nude pixelated characters going on like rabbits, there are plenty of mods that appear for such 'mature' indv soon enough.

So you do not like seeing people "going on like rabbits", but you like them killing each other in different, very brutal manner?  

This world has gone mad.

[Tommy6860]

Elhanan wrote...

Big difference for me: not going to play TW games. A couple of reasons is that TW requires more reported twitch skills, and the focus on the so called Mature materials (eg; sex. nudity, profanity, etc) is not for me.

Since you like using the term often lately, sounds like "confirmation bias" on your part, since you go by "reported", and since it's obvious you haven't played them by using that remark. Yes, TW has those sex elements, but then so does DA:O and DA2 and the sex and sexual content is blatant in all of the games; you can avoid them as you please though. Twitch is rather used often for msot games but in my experience with TW it isn't just about twitching. The game is very involved on many levels.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 23 mai 2011 - 01:35 .

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Aargh12 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...
Personally, my focus is not the daily eating, bathing, and procreating of the world; tis more on the story being told within it. If you want to see nude pixelated characters going on like rabbits, there are plenty of mods that appear for such 'mature' indv soon enough.

So you do not like seeing people "going on like rabbits", but you like them killing each other in different, very brutal manner?  

This world has gone mad.

Not much more you can expect from someone with two crafting ingredients in his head: elixir of defence, band of mediocrity.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Big difference for me: not going to play TW games. A couple of reasons is that TW requires more reported twitch skills, and the focus on the so called Mature materials (eg; sex. nudity, profanity, etc) is not for me.

Since you like using the term often lately, sounds like "confirmation bias" on your part you go by "reported", and since you haven't played them by using that remark.

...I wonder if Gaider can teach him any new words.

[Tommy6860]

BomimoDK wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

While your checklist is a valid one for comparison, most RPGers aren't limited to those aspects as the defining differences between the two games. Some though, as myself, has to have the ability to at least play a character I want to play, my choice of a name (minor thorough), my gender, even a different race. As I have noted before, I loved TW, but the static character limitation is putting me off buying TW2 for now and prevented me from doing a complete second run through TW.

Anyway, the main praise TW2 is getting over DA2 isn't so focused on what you list, it's mainly the fact that in DA2, your questing choices have little impact on the story. In TW2, you actually role play your character where your decisions have consequences, this makes the game an RPG. DA2 really didn't do this, and most times, the game holds the hand of the player as they quest on.. Your choices, though seemingly important when you make them in DA2, turn out vacuous and, for me anyway, left me feeling empty for a game that claims that it "shapes itself around every decision I make.".

That's really the differences most will state here, not so much character building though.

I'm playing TW2 right now, and this is true! It IS a stronger RPG and the SET character is actually a character you can roleplay. You're given a proper exposition as to who he is and what he's about and you're reminded once in a while, by himself too, that his proffession goes above anything else.
At some points, the roleplaying exceeds that of Origins where your first playthrough left you without a mentor 8 hours in and some apprentice Gray Warden telling you to "Warden Away" while no one ever explained to you what wardens do beyond what you hear on the surface. You're never reminded how wardens usually tackle a situation and you're not guided. You're not playing your role, you're just "being there".
In that regard, Witcher 2 is stronger since you actually KNOW when you're doing what the average witcher would be doing. It's a shame that Origins held out on the Gray Warden info until the battle of Denerim was about to kick off and you'd already taken your character far off the rails! You'd already broken the whole Gray Warden code right there!

I agree with you except with your claim that TW exceeding Origins in role playing. Origins is by far the deeper game for role playing, IMO. You can choose races, genders and not only that your Origins beginnings. You also build your characters according to class and the games companion and NPC view you accordingly. The Warden's purpose was very well explained not only by Duncan, but also by the codex and Flemeth, so I don't know where you get the vaguery of the purpose of the Wardens.

Both games do very well at choices being made having effect on plot state and having consequences. I haven't played TW2 yet, but from what most say it follow along the same lines as TW, of which I have played, so I can get gist to some familiarity from it. If that is the case, for me, Originswould still be the better role playing experience. But that leans towards more my preferences since Origins offer more character builds than does the TW series.

[Tommy6860]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Big difference for me: not going to play TW games. A couple of reasons is that TW requires more reported twitch skills, and the focus on the so called Mature materials (eg; sex. nudity, profanity, etc) is not for me.

Since you like using the term often lately, sounds like "confirmation bias" on your part you go by "reported", and since you haven't played them by using that remark.

...I wonder if Gaider can teach him any new words.

HUH? If you're saying Elhanan is some kind of drone, I won't bite. I may disagree with the guy from time to time, but he has made some pretty good points here on the games. MY reply to him wasn't to say he is not his own person or that he follows the premise of another Bioware figure as you indicate. Just that using the term "confirmation bias" the way he he did here, is a bit mislguided, when he follows the very same premise of the term, with the reason why he wouldn't buy TW or TW2.

[Tommy6860]

Rojahar wrote...

Riloux wrote...

I wouldn't like it. The reason it works for the Witcher is because the games are based on the books. Bioware is known for their open-ended games that offer choices and different endings, and I don't want to see that change. The voiced protagonist feels like a step in the wrong direction for Bioware.

I think that's really the core of a lot of complaints Bioware receives. People have certain expectations that they have a Bioware that they don't have of any other company. They want Bioware to keep doing the same things in every game, more or less making the same game again and again, rather than experiment in trying new things for better or worse.

When it comes down to it, I think people are just afraid that if Bioware doesn't keep making the kind of game they specifically prefer in every way, then it that type of game won't exist anymore, since it's not like anyone really makes games closer to Origins rather than DA2 anymore. People can appreciate something new when it's from another company, because other companies don't make "traditional Bioware games" , but when Bioware deviates, they see it as at the expense of their ideal kind of Bioware game. Some fans see it almost as a "duty" for Bioware to keep making the same kind of game they've made in the past, because nobody else will.

Hmm, that's an interesting point, but I am going to offer a different take on this. Bioware, in a sense, painted itself into those expectations and has been relatively consistent in delivering the games that appeal to a rather large core base of gamers they built during the past 12+ years. In that sense, I don't blame the backlash, as Bioware created that large fan-base, on the consistency of their games, and then seemingly abandoned that for whatever reason. I also find it interesting that with the backlash ME2 got, though the game sold incredibly well, that Bioware stated they are going back to ME RPG elements while improving the ME2 system more, for ME3. Having seen how badly DA2 did and how well Origins did, I wonder if that's the reasoning behind the ME3 reversal back to ME1's elements.

I think Bioware may want to stick with their style "consistency" for a bit longer.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 23 mai 2011 - 01:55 .

[88mphSlayer]

both Dragon Age 2 and The Witcher 2 have set-in-stone player characters (as does the Mass Effect franchise)

the big difference is that you can actually change the story in The Witcher 2, while in Dragon Age 2/Mass Effect you get to choose the color of skin

the one area CDProjektRED goofed up on was making romancing Shani not continue into TW2, because otherwise The Witcher 2 would be a foreshadowing of what people want out of Mass Effect 3 - which is to say more closely focused on a tied-up relationship from the previous game

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 23 mai 2011 - 02:03 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Their arguments boil down to "Ha! We sure taught BioWare a lesson!"

[88mphSlayer]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Their arguments boil down to "Ha! We sure taught BioWare a lesson!"

the real argument boils down to "gee, i sure wish Bioware would actually learn from their mistakes, learn from the competition, and deliver on promises instead of giving players false hope"

Bioware does not exist in a vacuum, and these forums should not be a vacuum chamber of like-minded individuals

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 23 mai 2011 - 02:07 .

[lobi]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Their arguments boil down to "Ha! We sure taught BioWare a lesson!"

"I had a chicken sandwich yesterday, I even put mustard on it. Adventurous am I."

[wheelyjon]

Sorry I Liked Dragon Age 2 - I liked the voice, use could chose how youlooked who you dated how you talked to the folks of kirkwall
I get the not changing the game but i didn't realy get that feeling till we were ruing down hill.... but I think the change game bit will come in DA3 it a to part ach anyone can see that, ths just sets up how you start in the war.
Plus it fun to be a mage at last

[lobi]

wheelyjon wrote...

Sorry I Liked Dragon Age 2 - I liked the voice, use could chose how youlooked who you dated how you talked to the folks of kirkwall
I get the not changing the game but i didn't realy get that feeling till we were ruing down hill.... but I think the change game bit will come in DA3 it a to part ach anyone can see that, ths just sets up how you start in the war.
Plus it fun to be a mage at last

"I had a chicken sandwich yesterday, I even put mustard on it. Adventurous am I."
"The whole thing took 5 minutes, including the crafting"

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

88mphSlayer wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Their arguments boil down to "Ha! We sure taught BioWare a lesson!"

the real argument boils down to "gee, i sure wish Bioware would actually learn from their mistakes, learn from the competition, and deliver on promises instead of giving players false hope"

Bioware does not exist in a vacuum, and these forums should not be a vacuum chamber of like-minded individuals

Not really an argument.  Then again, the people who loved TW but hated DA2 don't have any argument either.  It boils down to being mad at BioWare for daring to try and attract a larger crowd.  as other threads have pointed out, people who love aspects of TW have trashed DA2 for the exact same aspects.