514 réponses à ce sujet

[lobi]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Their arguments boil down to "Ha! We sure taught BioWare a lesson!"

the real argument boils down to "gee, i sure wish Bioware would actually learn from their mistakes, learn from the competition, and deliver on promises instead of giving players false hope"

Bioware does not exist in a vacuum, and these forums should not be a vacuum chamber of like-minded individuals

Not really an argument.  Then again, the people who loved TW but hated DA2 don't have any argument either.  It boils down to being mad at BioWare for daring to try and attract a larger crowd.  as other threads have pointed out, people who love aspects of TW have trashed DA2 for the exact same aspects.

"I had a chicken sandwich yesterday, I even put mustard on it. Adventurous am I."
"The whole thing took 5 minutes, including the crafting"
"I was very hungry"

[88mphSlayer]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Their arguments boil down to "Ha! We sure taught BioWare a lesson!"

the real argument boils down to "gee, i sure wish Bioware would actually learn from their mistakes, learn from the competition, and deliver on promises instead of giving players false hope"

Bioware does not exist in a vacuum, and these forums should not be a vacuum chamber of like-minded individuals

Not really an argument.  Then again, the people who loved TW but hated DA2 don't have any argument either.  It boils down to being mad at BioWare for daring to try and attract a larger crowd.  as other threads have pointed out, people who love aspects of TW have trashed DA2 for the exact same aspects.

or maybe they just don't like buying cheaply made games 

[wheelyjon]

Im sorry i like DA2, I liked the vioce it gave me a connect to MY Harke! I wasn't a face slack blank eyed ferelden (ok you didn't get ten choices but i olny ever choice two) you get to choisse you sex and and who you date and how you'd deal with the good folks of kirkwall. ok you couldn't change the story but I only got the feeling towards the end well it all bolted down hill by then it was to late.I think all the choices will lay in DA3 its a two part arc story its all about the war DA2 is just the build up to where you get to start your war you can even lose i surspect .... and it fun to be a mage at last - even i liked dao i must admited im one of the crowd they wanted to pull in and it worked not that it needed to lol.
sorry i added this again i didn't think it posted well last time

Modifié par wheelyjon, 23 mai 2011 - 02:38 .

[Elhanan]

Aargh12 wrote...

So you do not like seeing people "going on like rabbits", but you like them killing each other in different, very brutal manner?  

This world has gone mad.

I turn the gore settings down by choice, though did not mention them in a prior context. I mentioned murder, as in the Warden having his family slaughtered, their mother used for parts, or having their brother slain.

The world has indeed gone mad; lost it's shame. Losing the ability to blush at its de-evoution, forgettiing to be respectful towards any other, and demanding to parade their basest choices publically as a right.

It embraces the use of cameras to simulate sex and voyeurism, and brags immaturely to the world on looking up skirts and down the cleavage of a SIM character in a game. They make and post pics of SIM characters writhing about to stumlate their lack of imaginations, and complain like the elitists they are when the characters remain clothed; demanding free Toolsets to be able to make the SIM's themselves.

Me? I skipped the romance options in DA2, and some in DAO. I choose to do; call it self-censorship or awarenesss because I am confident I do not need it.

[Elhanan]

Khayness wrote...

I hope you know that the sex scenes are optional.

Just like I can prevent Hawke looking like a butcher who works in late saturdays because he/she has an unhealthy obsession for blood.

Yep; cause I do not have to get the game. Optional.

[Elhanan]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Since you like using the term often lately, sounds like "confirmation bias" on your part, since you go by "reported", and since it's obvious you haven't played them by using that remark. Yes, TW has those sex elements, but then so does DA:O and DA2 and the sex and sexual content is blatant in all of the games; you can avoid them as you please though. Twitch is rather used often for msot games but in my experience with TW it isn't just about twitching. The game is very involved on many levels.

I have avoided such in the DA series, by using my own choice and filters when available. And I last used CB with someone that tried a game for 10 min and disliked it; seemed to fit the definition of the term.
 
I do not believe I have that with TW, as after having read reviews and posts concerning the games, I chose not to invest in them; not for me.I expected nothing as I was getting nothing. Initially I was intrigued by the beauty seen in the detailing (eg; stained glass windows) of an engine many hold to be antiquated for gaming. But after reading future intel released on the game, chose not to bother.

[Elhanan]

Tommy6860 wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...
[
...I wonder if Gaider can teach him any new words.

HUH? If you're saying Elhanan is some kind of drone, I won't bite. I may disagree with the guy from time to time, but he has made some pretty good points here on the games. MY reply to him wasn't to say he is not his own person or that he follows the premise of another Bioware figure as you indicate. Just that using the term "confirmation bias" the way he he did here, is a bit mislguided, when he follows the very same premise of the term, with the reason why he wouldn't buy TW or TW2.

Thanks, but I think Jabba is ref my use of DG's catchy phrase as my new sig. But give him/it a break; tries so hard to be witty on an empty tank.

[Elhanan]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Not much more you can expect from someone with two crafting ingredients in his head: elixir of defence, band of mediocrity.

At least I have two....

[The Earl Of Bronze]

"Fixed voice: Both games
Fixed gender: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character look: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed class: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character personality: Neither, both allow for interpretations of the same character
Fixed sexuality: Only the Witcher, not in DA2"

I don't like the idea of not being able to choose how the character looks, or what class I am in the game, thats two of the most important parts of this type of game, so I'm essentially playing as someone elses character. And people were complaining DA:2 wasn't an rpg, how can this be an rpg when you can't decide who or what your character is? Double standards me thinks.

[Khayness]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

And people were complaining DA:2 wasn't an rpg, how can this be an rpg when you can't decide who or what your character is? Double standards me thinks.

It is since PS:T showed that it can be done.

[Aargh12]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...
I don't like the idea of not being able to choose how the character looks, or what class I am in the game, thats two of the most important parts of this type of game, so I'm essentially playing as someone elses character. And people were complaining DA:2 wasn't an rpg, how can this be an rpg when you can't decide who or what your character is? Double standards me thinks.

That's because Witcher gives you more freedom in plot-developing than Dragon Age 2. That's what makes it better RPG than Bioware's production. 

Play Planescape: Torment to see how it works.

[Elhanan]

I have PS:T, and have NWN1; the reasin I still have yet to play the former. Will pass on TW due to multiple problems not seen in these others.

[The Earl Of Bronze]

Aargh12 wrote...

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...
I don't like the idea of not being able to choose how the character looks, or what class I am in the game, thats two of the most important parts of this type of game, so I'm essentially playing as someone elses character. And people were complaining DA:2 wasn't an rpg, how can this be an rpg when you can't decide who or what your character is? Double standards me thinks.

That's because Witcher gives you more freedom in plot-developing than Dragon Age 2. That's what makes it better RPG than Bioware's production. 

Play Planescape: Torment to see how it works.

How is there more freedom when you can't play as your character? Sure freedom in plot development is a great idea, but why force a character on the player? The character is the most important part of any rpg, if you can't create your own character then thats a severe drawback. You can claim what you like about plot development but if you can't create your own character it is not better than bioware's production.

[Addai]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

I'm confused. Browsing these forums, there's a whole lot of posts where people who don't like voiced protagonists go on about how they never felt Hawke was "their" character, rather a character they just borrowed for a while. Yet even so, the Witcher is praised all over the place. I don't mean to belittle the Witcher - I haven't even played the game so what do I know in reality - but from what I've gathered you have far less control in the Witcher than in DA2.

That's because we're comparing DA2 to Origins, not to The Witcher.

[Aargh12]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...
How is there more freedom when you can't play as your character? Sure freedom in plot development is a great idea, but why force a character on the player? The character is the most important part of any rpg, if you can't create your own character then thats a severe drawback. You can claim what you like about plot development but if you can't create your own character it is not better than bioware's production.

IMO it is. What's the point of creating character, when you can't do what you want with it?

[88mphSlayer]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

Aargh12 wrote...

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...
I don't like the idea of not being able to choose how the character looks, or what class I am in the game, thats two of the most important parts of this type of game, so I'm essentially playing as someone elses character. And people were complaining DA:2 wasn't an rpg, how can this be an rpg when you can't decide who or what your character is? Double standards me thinks.

That's because Witcher gives you more freedom in plot-developing than Dragon Age 2. That's what makes it better RPG than Bioware's production. 

Play Planescape: Torment to see how it works.

How is there more freedom when you can't play as your character? Sure freedom in plot development is a great idea, but why force a character on the player? The character is the most important part of any rpg, if you can't create your own character then thats a severe drawback. You can claim what you like about plot development but if you can't create your own character it is not better than bioware's production.

you don't really "create your own character" in any Bioware game made in recent years, you simply get some say on how they move through the pre-defined story

Hawke is never not Hawke, there's sarcastic Hawke, serious Hawke, appreciative Hawke, male Hawke, female Hawke, etc. but never not Hawke, Hawke always becomes champion the same way, Hawke always picks up the same companions, Hawke always ventures into the Deep Roads and always gets a mansion, Hawke always fights the same people at the end, Hawke always loses relatives, etc.

if you're a developer and feel it's necessary to strip away some illusion of choice for some real plot-changing choice, then that's your choice, if you do it well people will appreciate the effort even if they might want more freedom in future games... if on the other hand you handle the illusion of choice poorly then people won't care even if the concept was right up their alley

also i'm pretty sure "role" is the most important part of any rpg, not the color of the player character's skin

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 23 mai 2011 - 03:46 .

[Khayness]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

How is there more freedom when you can't play as your character? Sure freedom in plot development is a great idea, but why force a character on the player? The character is the most important part of any rpg, if you can't create your own character then thats a severe drawback. You can claim what you like about plot development but if you can't create your own character it is not better than bioware's production.

Creating your own characters has very little impact on the games of late (mostly cosmetic, and minor dialogue changes, and since bi winning is the new trend, it will have even less in the future).

It's not like D&D, when you have racial bonuses/disadvantages or Arcanum where you have a bazillion of backgrounds to chose from.

[The Earl Of Bronze]

Aargh12 wrote...

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...
How is there more freedom when you can't play as your character? Sure freedom in plot development is a great idea, but why force a character on the player? The character is the most important part of any rpg, if you can't create your own character then thats a severe drawback. You can claim what you like about plot development but if you can't create your own character it is not better than bioware's production.

IMO it is. What's the point of creating character, when you can't do what you want with it?

Whats the point having a character forced on you? Thats no freedom at all.

[Elhanan]

Khayness wrote...

Creating your own characters has very little impact on the games of late (mostly cosmetic, and minor dialogue changes, and since bi winning is the new trend, it will have even less in the future).

It's not like D&D, when you have racial bonuses/disadvantages or Arcanum where you have a bazillion of backgrounds to chose from.

One thing for certain seen lately on these forums: folks like their choices. Be it Character Creation, weapon prof and usage, major plot elements, etc; people can get testy when they expected it, and were forced to play sans freedom of choice.

[Aargh12]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...
Whats the point having a character forced on you? Thats no freedom at all. 

And then what's the point chaning character looks when you know his/her history (Hawke, Shepard) and you - as player - have little impact on story? That's not what makes a game a RPG.

[Huntress]

Rojahar wrote...

I'm curious how people would feel if Bioware got rid of character creation and went with an even more defined protagonist like in The Witcher. Though I didn't have a problem with DA2, I liked it, it seems like people have an issue with DA2 allegedly having one foot in one camp, and the other fit in another, with Hawke kind of being half-defined, half-custom. Bioware often mentions how there's a lot of things they're unable to do in their games because of the choices they offer, and so I'm curious what they'd do and how well it would work out if they decided to much more solidly commit to putting quality above quantity of choice.

If bioware go with a fixed character then it I'll not buy it, I do not have TW1 or TW2 because of that. It looks good? who cares still not what I want.
Other RPG games coming out soon, and still have the options of making you're own character and sex.
If I can't find any good RPG then.. I'll go back to WoW many high lvl characters and tons of gold.

[Khayness]

Huntress wrote...

If bioware go with a fixed character then it I'll not buy it, I do not have TW1 or TW2 because of that. It looks good? who cares still not what I want.
Other RPG games coming out soon, and still have the options of making you're own character and sex.

With posts like this I wonder if people think that roleplaying = *I* want to be the hero rather than I play as the hero.

Big goddamn difference.

[Addai]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Not really an argument.  Then again, the people who loved TW but hated DA2 don't have any argument either.  It boils down to being mad at BioWare for daring to try and attract a larger crowd.  as other threads have pointed out, people who love aspects of TW have trashed DA2 for the exact same aspects.

These mythical "some people" aren't necessarily praising the same things in TW that they're criticizing in DA2.  I liked TW1, but it was in spite of the fixed character and voiced PC.  I still prefer to play a female and have some say over appearance and background.

I do think there is a tendency to give CDPR a pass, maybe because they're perceived as being a scrappy indie developer rather than a corporate sellout, but that doesn't change the fact that DA2 has glaring flaws and is woefully inadequate compared to its own predecessor, let alone any other game.

You can compare the two sequels in that gameplay became less tactical (more action-oriented, isometric camera taken away in both games) and both were consolized.  I think that just shows that the realities of the market are what they are.

[Tommy6860]

Elhanan wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Since you like using the term often lately, sounds like "confirmation bias" on your part, since you go by "reported", and since it's obvious you haven't played them by using that remark. Yes, TW has those sex elements, but then so does DA:O and DA2 and the sex and sexual content is blatant in all of the games; you can avoid them as you please though. Twitch is rather used often for msot games but in my experience with TW it isn't just about twitching. The game is very involved on many levels.

I have avoided such in the DA series, by using my own choice and filters when available. And I last used CB with someone that tried a game for 10 min and disliked it; seemed to fit the definition of the term.
 
I do not believe I have that with TW, as after having read reviews and posts concerning the games, I chose not to invest in them; not for me.I expected nothing as I was getting nothing. Initially I was intrigued by the beauty seen in the detailing (eg; stained glass windows) of an engine many hold to be antiquated for gaming. But after reading future intel released on the game, chose not to bother.

But, you all but said by reading "reports" on the game, that all but screams CB. You already formed an opinion based on something you didn't expoerience, and CB fits that billing. Especailly when you used the "sex" part as the primary reason to pass, when DA is rife with it and you can opt not to engage in it. Anyway you want to spin your reasoning, it still is not based with you having an experience with the game, but on extraneous factors.