514 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Tommy6860 wrote...

But, you all but said by reading "reports" on the game, that all but screams CB. You already formed an opinion based on something you didn't expoerience, and CB fits that billing. Especailly when you used the "sex" part as the primary reason to pass, when DA is rife with it and you can opt not to engage in it. Anyway you want to spin your reasoning, it still is not based with you having an experience with the game, but on extraneous factors.

Not according to this link I have been using, I believe:

http://en.wikipedia....nfirmation_bias

I had no preconceptions of TW; simply knew it was a CRPG using the NWN1 engine. I then saw some screenshots which were impressive.

But I do have personal standards, and when reading of the materials that would be in the game that I would find problematic, I gave the game a pass.  If anyone has confirnation bias from informed shopping, then perhaps I am guilty; no need to try a product that I believe to be personally unenjoyable.

AFWIW, profanity has more to do with the lack of a sale then pixelated nudity, though both are not qualities I seek in a game. I would like to think that maturity is not something one gains from a ECRB label.

[Chromie]

Elhanan wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

But, you all but said by reading "reports" on the game, that all but screams CB. You already formed an opinion based on something you didn't expoerience, and CB fits that billing. Especailly when you used the "sex" part as the primary reason to pass, when DA is rife with it and you can opt not to engage in it. Anyway you want to spin your reasoning, it still is not based with you having an experience with the game, but on extraneous factors.

Not according to this link I have been using, I believe:

http://en.wikipedia....nfirmation_bias

I had no preconceptions of TW; simply knew it was a CRPG using the NWN1 engine. I then saw some screenshots which were impressive.

But I do have personal standards, and when reading of the materials that would be in the game that I would find problematic, I gave the game a pass.  If anyone has confirnation bias from informed shopping, then perhaps I am guilty; no need to try a product that I believe to be personally unenjoyable.

AFWIW, profanity has more to do with the lack of a sale then pixelated nudity, though both are not qualities I seek in a game. I would like to think that maturity is not something one gains from a ECRB label.

Fine you can't handle anything that isn't aimed for children we get it.

[tariq071]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

Aargh12 wrote...

IMO it is. What's the point of creating character, when you can't do what you want with it?

Whats the point having a character forced on you? Thats no freedom at all.

@Aargh

Some people don't like to think, they want to be held for their hand, since that's what they are use to.I don't see why are you even wasting time and effort here.He will get it(one would hope) after he finally plays more then couple of RPG eventually, but right now don't bother.


@The Earl Of Bronze:

You Sir,i don't give a damn do you like or dislike DA 2,but to call other RPG games that are known classics limited because of your personal (yes personal) preference is showing complete lack of any knowledge about genre.

Go and play Gothic 2 NOTR, or 1 ,3 and tell that there is no freedom.If you find G2 very hard for you, which i can bet you will , people here can provide you with quite long list of other RPG's that have preset PC (only in gender offcourse)There are games beyond Bioware you know.

Until then stop using that as excuse for defending of whatever you are trying to defend because you can't come up with something less dellusional.You are just insulting other fine games with your plain ignorance.

Modifié par tariq071, 23 mai 2011 - 05:25 .

[Elhanan]

Ringo12 wrote...

Fine you can't handle anything that isn't aimed for children we get it.

Yep; that's it. I prefer to be considered a child and have fun, rather than be thought of as 'Mature' and produce the kinds of 'adult' posts from TW fans seen over here. I cannot handle the troops!

[Chromie]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

Aargh12 wrote...

IMO it is. What's the point of creating character, when you can't do what you want with it?

Whats the point having a character forced on you? Thats no freedom at all.

Planescape torment. If that game isn't an rpg then just stop playing games. My imagination isn't dead I read books I can't imagine what's going on even though it's not my character I can see say what Jessica and Paul go through in Dune.

I can't connect to Hawke because it's such a huge departure from the original it's not like Witcher ever decided to give us a character creator.

@Elhanan  Well it's about as adult as DA2 fan posts.

Modifié par Ringo12, 23 mai 2011 - 05:34 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Elhanan wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Fine you can't handle anything that isn't aimed for children we get it.

Yep; that's it. I prefer to be considered a child and have fun, rather than be thought of as 'Mature' and produce the kinds of 'adult' posts from TW fans seen over here. I cannot handle the troops!

Notice how fast they result to ad hominem?  It's about the only argument they can muster.  Their other favorite tactic is "Your opinion is an opinion!  My opinion is a fact!"  :lol:

[erynnar]

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

"Fixed voice: Both games
Fixed gender: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character look: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed class: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character personality: Neither, both allow for interpretations of the same character
Fixed sexuality: Only the Witcher, not in DA2"

I don't like the idea of not being able to choose how the character looks, or what class I am in the game, thats two of the most important parts of this type of game, so I'm essentially playing as someone elses character. And people were complaining DA:2 wasn't an rpg, how can this be an rpg when you can't decide who or what your character is? Double standards me thinks.

Not being able to choose my look and my gender (prefer female, myself) did not bother me as much as I thought in Witcher 2. While I like being able to choose my look, and gender, the reasons are that I can overlook it as the world is so immersive, my actions have consequences (even farther in the future, small things too).

Geralt may be a male, and a fixed voiced PC, but he makes me feel epic when I play him.  His actions carry weight in the world I am put into. Hawke was some poor schlub that everything happened to or around. Hawke was about as epic as a dishtowel in the end...alwayay mopping up and cleaning up, but accomplishing very little and in the end...nothing. Geralt isn't out to save the world, it can't be. But there a lot of things he can do to makes changes, for good or ill.

This surprised me, so I honestly have to conclude, for me personally that the character selection is lovely ( I still prefer it) but in the end it is shallow in comparison to choices or the illusion of choice (if you will since most stories have and ending they are driving you to). I like pimping my ride, but I prefer driving that ride going where I want to go with it. I prefer bumper cars to riding the choo choo.

[Chromie]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Fine you can't handle anything that isn't aimed for children we get it.

Yep; that's it. I prefer to be considered a child and have fun, rather than be thought of as 'Mature' and produce the kinds of 'adult' posts from TW fans seen over here. I cannot handle the troops!

Notice how fast they result to ad hominem?  It's about the only argument they can muster.  Their other favorite tactic is "Your opinion is an opinion!  My opinion is a fact!"  :lol:

Your doing it now.

[Chromie]

erynnar wrote...

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

"Fixed voice: Both games
Fixed gender: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character look: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed class: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character personality: Neither, both allow for interpretations of the same character
Fixed sexuality: Only the Witcher, not in DA2"

I don't like the idea of not being able to choose how the character looks, or what class I am in the game, thats two of the most important parts of this type of game, so I'm essentially playing as someone elses character. And people were complaining DA:2 wasn't an rpg, how can this be an rpg when you can't decide who or what your character is? Double standards me thinks.

Not being able to choose my look and my gender (prefer female, myself) did not bother me as much as I thought in Witcher 2. While I like being able to choose my look, and gender, the reasons are that I can overlook it as the world is so immersive, my actions have consequences (even farther in the future, small things too).

Geralt may be a male, and a fixed voiced PC, but he makes me feel epic when I play him.  His actions carry weight in the world I am put into. Hawke was some poor schlub that everything happened to or around. Hawke was about as epic as a dishtowel in the end...alwayay mopping up and cleaning up, but accomplishing very little and in the end...nothing. Geralt isn't out to save the world, it can't be. But there a lot of things he can do to makes changes, for good or ill.

This surprised me, so I honestly have to conclude, for me personally that the character selection is lovely ( I still prefer it) but in the end it is shallow in comparison to choices or the illusion of choice (if you will since most stories have and ending they are driving you to). I like pimping my ride, but I prefer driving that ride going where I want to go with it. I prefer bumper cars to riding the choo choo.

Hawke didn't grow or change as a person. Hawke wasn't even affected at all by his or her mother's death. I don't really remember Hawke ever have a problem that changed him/her. Every just rolls of his back seriously.

Geralt at least is trying to clear his name in Witcher 2. He misses Yennefer and is trying to find out what happened to her and becomes connected to the political strife of the Witcher world.

[erynnar]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Fine you can't handle anything that isn't aimed for children we get it.

Yep; that's it. I prefer to be considered a child and have fun, rather than be thought of as 'Mature' and produce the kinds of 'adult' posts from TW fans seen over here. I cannot handle the troops!

Notice how fast they result to ad hominem?  It's about the only argument they can muster.  Their other favorite tactic is "Your opinion is an opinion!  My opinion is a fact!"  :lol:

And you yourself are guilty of all of those. Funny, I notice you like to state your opinion as fact all the time. As if, what you think is the majority, total fact, eveyrone else is wrong...smileys or no.

Am I guilty of it, probably, though unintentionally and on occasion. Where as most of your post come off that way. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[_Aine_]

I don't mind any game that forces me to be a set character (even a male when I am not) as long as it makes logical sense and is entertaining. Geralt: He is a flawed and an interestingly rounded atypical character. But, in the game, you feel like Geralt. you don't feel like Geralt is a car and you are the driver - or even a director managing an actor. I had no problem feeling completely absorbed in the world. Sure, I LOVE creating my own characters, so much. But when a game is done well, you are immersed it in, you become the character and the real-world differences cease to matter as much as you suspend reality for a bit. I guess it all depends on how easily you can suspend your own reality though, AND if you choose to do so along with the strength of the games ability to set it all up for you and then maintain it.

I personally have no trouble slipping into skin and life of the protagonist as long as there aren't constant reminders of things that break my immersion somehow. So, maybe because of that it means less to me in games where the story and characters mesh easily into another world...

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

erynnar wrote...

And you yourself are guilty of all of those. Funny, I notice you like to state your opinion as fact all the time. As if, what you think is the majority, total fact, eveyrone else is wrong...smileys or no.

Am I guilty of it, probably, though unintentionally and on occasion. Where as most of your post come off that way. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

If you see my opinion as a fact, I'm honored.  I actually clarify a lot of my posts with "I think."  ;)

I don't think most people are wrong.  But a lot of the acusation people make aren't true for most people I know. 

[erynnar]

Ringo12 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

The Earl Of Bronze wrote...

"Fixed voice: Both games
Fixed gender: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character look: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed class: Only the Witcher, not in DA2
Fixed character personality: Neither, both allow for interpretations of the same character
Fixed sexuality: Only the Witcher, not in DA2"

I don't like the idea of not being able to choose how the character looks, or what class I am in the game, thats two of the most important parts of this type of game, so I'm essentially playing as someone elses character. And people were complaining DA:2 wasn't an rpg, how can this be an rpg when you can't decide who or what your character is? Double standards me thinks.

Not being able to choose my look and my gender (prefer female, myself) did not bother me as much as I thought in Witcher 2. While I like being able to choose my look, and gender, the reasons are that I can overlook it as the world is so immersive, my actions have consequences (even farther in the future, small things too).

Geralt may be a male, and a fixed voiced PC, but he makes me feel epic when I play him.  His actions carry weight in the world I am put into. Hawke was some poor schlub that everything happened to or around. Hawke was about as epic as a dishtowel in the end...alwayay mopping up and cleaning up, but accomplishing very little and in the end...nothing. Geralt isn't out to save the world, it can't be. But there a lot of things he can do to makes changes, for good or ill.

This surprised me, so I honestly have to conclude, for me personally that the character selection is lovely ( I still prefer it) but in the end it is shallow in comparison to choices or the illusion of choice (if you will since most stories have and ending they are driving you to). I like pimping my ride, but I prefer driving that ride going where I want to go with it. I prefer bumper cars to riding the choo choo.

Hawke didn't grow or change as a person. Hawke wasn't even affected at all by his or her mother's death. I don't really remember Hawke ever have a problem that changed him/her. Every just rolls of his back seriously.

Geralt at least is trying to clear his name in Witcher 2. He misses Yennefer and is trying to find out what happened to her and becomes connected to the political strife of the Witcher world.

Yeah, he is written as a real person. Hawke is missing something. Funny, I thought it was the set characeter. but I have to admit, I may have been wrong about that. Now I am on a journey to figure out why Geralt is better than my Hawke ever thought of being. Hawke is shallow, and Geralt (despite having amnesia and still piecing things together) has a more fully formed personality.

Again, love DA universe, very confused by DA2 and my feelings of meh about it.

[Persephone]

I love both characters for very different reasons.

Yes, I'm weird. I like black AND white. Shocking.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

[Chromie]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
If you see my opinion as a fact

Lol no one does. :pinched:<_<:kissing::innocent::alien:<3:unsure::lol:=]:happy:

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Worse insult

Modifié par Ringo12, 23 mai 2011 - 05:53 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Ringo12 wrote...

[spam snipped]

Try to stay on topic, please.  This should give you a refresher on what this thread is about.

[tariq071]

Elhanan wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Fine you can't handle anything that isn't aimed for children we get it.

Yep; that's it. I prefer to be considered a child and have fun, rather than be thought of as 'Mature' and produce the kinds of 'adult' posts from TW fans seen over here. I cannot handle the troops!

Now, now, some people don't want nudity because of their own religious beliefs , other's don't care.They both should respect each others view.

I grew up in '80 Europe, plus i'm half Italian so nude body for me is nothing unusual, not even worth of noticing.

At the same time, i played  ME1&2 , DA:O and DA 2 without persuing any relationships, because if i want one i will talk to my girlfrind made of flesh and blood and not some pixels(that is something really desparate, you know).

You can also play Witcher without having even glimpse of nudity(escape button for cutscenes), which i intend since again, if i want that i'll talk to wife or g/f.

Although, i don't understand how one can be "offended" by pixelated nudity one game, but not by open dating, same gender dating and all the erotic talk in another, sounds same to me

P.S. @Elhanan

i gather you can't watch most of the HBO programme because it's insulting to your views, right ?

Modifié par tariq071, 23 mai 2011 - 06:02 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Both DA2 and TW2 have a voiced PC and a third person view.

In third person view I look at the PC and I hear him or her talk. Because the PC doesn't look and sound like me I don't feel the PC is me. I am controlling another character. That's fine with me, because there is an obvious distance between me and the PC it allows me to play the role of someone else. It makes it easier for me to play with a character that has a different role and moral makeup than me.

A silent PC wouldn't change much, unless the view was changed from third person to first person. In that view I am using the eyes of the PC and that would give me the illusion that I am the PC. A voice that isn't mine would distract from that.

So why do I object to DA2's voice?

One thing that BW tries is to give the voice an illusion of reality, but it fails for various reasons:

The PC's class is not recognized properly. There are too many silly situation in which mage Hawke interacts as if he or she wasn't a mage at all. Every mage is hunted down for what he or she is, except Hawke. This is especially irritating in the half part of the game. It gets more acceptable after Hawke is granted immunity from Meredith.

The PC's role is not recognized properly. Again, this has to do with mage Hawke. The game has no clue whether Hawke is a blood mage or not. The game acts as if Hawke is aware that blood mages are the most evil creatures in Thedas, even when Hawke is a blood mage. This makes it nearly impossible to play the role properly.

The side which Hawke has chosen is not recognized properly. No matter what side Hawke has chosen the game acts as if Hawke has chosen to support the templars. There aren't many (if at all) mutually exclusive quest lines specific for a given side. The PC can do all available. In the main story there are some roundabouts to make the side selection more acceptable, but this only happens at the very end of the game.

In DA2 there is a voice system which is supposed to remember what kind of answers the PC has chosen in the past. Based on that the intonation or the actual lines delivered should change slightly to give a better illusion of reality. The main problem with it is that it feels like a wasted effort, because I have the feeling that it isn't there most of the time and when it is I can do without.

If DA2 didn't have a voiced PC then many of the above problems wouldn't be there or would be minimized. Also, DA2 is already very short. And according to DA:O's senior technical designer Georg Zoeller having a voice acted PC would shorten the game by 50%. Of course this isn't mentioned again and certainly not in DA2's promotion.

In TW2 the voice acting may not be that ambitious, but at least it delivers what it promises. It has been improved compared to the first game. TW2 is a shorter game than TW1 and that clearly cannot be attributed to voice acting. But the marketing information is clear about that. CDPR makes it obvious by telling in the ad for the game: "A truly epic, intense, emotionally charged adventure with non-linear game narration. Three independent plot lines with several alternative events are dependent on the player’s choices and lead to multiple different game endings and several additional plot forks. This time gameplay time will be shorter than The Witcher 1, but more intense and packed with events." Even though it is beautified with marketing mumbo jumbo at least we now know where that comes from before buying the game.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 23 mai 2011 - 06:11 .

[Chromie]

tariq071 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Fine you can't handle anything that isn't aimed for children we get it.

Yep; that's it. I prefer to be considered a child and have fun, rather than be thought of as 'Mature' and produce the kinds of 'adult' posts from TW fans seen over here. I cannot handle the troops!

Now, now, some people don't want nudity because of their own religious beliefs , other's don't care.They both should respect each others views.

Acting like your forced to watch it though? Your forced to watch it the same way Dragon Age 2 forces you...wait it doesn't.

[DragonRageGT]

It's so wierd the proliferation of threads about The Witcher. Geralt is as awesome as the Nameless Hero of Gothic, only he's not nameless! TW2 has elements that Gothic introduced. DA2 has elements that... "the way of the audience" introduced. BW really should not pay much attention to metrix!

[Wolfborn Son]

Ringo12 wrote...

Fine you can't handle anything that isn't aimed for children we get it.

Comments like this always make me want to pull out my freaking hair.

I'm not a fan of sex and nudity in video games either.    Why?  Because I've never seen it handled in a mature manner.  It's often just used as exploitation, much like violence.  Even in Origins, which has fairly tasteful sex scenes, it felt a little silly watching pixils get it on.  Fading to black would serve the same purpose, especially considering that the relationships seems fairly shallow and one demensional.

[Elhanan]

tariq071 wrote...

Now, now, some people don't want nudity because of their own religious beliefs , other's don't care.They both should respect each others view.

I grew up in '80 Europe, plus i'm half Italian so nude body for me is nothing unusual, not even worth of noticing.

At the same time, i played  ME1&2 , DA:O and DA 2 without persuing any relationships, because if i want one i will talk to my girlfrind made of flesh and blood and not some pixels(that is something really desparate, you know).

You can also play Witcher without having even glimpse of nudity(escape button for cutscenes), which i intend since again, if i want that i'll talk to wife or g/f.

Although, i don't understand how one can be "offended" by pixelated nudity one game, but not by open dating, same gender dating and all the erotic talk in another, sounds same to me

Did not say I was offended per se; think it something to avoid, as I do in the DA series. You are not the only one with an Esc key, or the ability to not take an option.

P.S. @Elhanan

i gather you can't watch most of the HBO programme because it's insulting to your views, right ?

Y & N; do not have cable, so I avoid the discussion. But I have not seen an episode of Deadwood or The Sopranos on DVD by choice. As for the sneak peeks, got past those some 30 yrs ago.