39 réponses à ce sujet

[Jadebaby]

So im about to start my 2nd playthrough of both Mass Effects. Having done my first playthrough as a soldier i want to go with something different. Mainly biotics. But I can decide which is better out of Adept and Vanguard.
Not particularly fond of close range combat which Vanguards use but Adepts can only use light armor.

Can any1 list some other differences between the two?
Much appreciated, thank u. x

[Jamesnew2]

Well Vanguards are more up close and personal with shotguns and tend to be heavy hitters but you want mainly biotics? So adept would be good for you tho you might want to look up sentinal cuz i heard their biotics but have tech armor so it might be what your looking for. but for your preference out of the two it would be adept but it will be harder to stay alive...

[Clonedzero]

keep in mind, you dont need to use your shotgun all the time as a vanguard. personally i prefer using SMG's and AR's over the shotgun in most fights. i have no idea why people so heavily associate vanguards with shotguns.

instead think of vanguards as a hybrid between soldier and adept. great for an aggressive playstyle where you push forward, flank, use powers and weapons to an equal degree.

an adept is basically a pure caster. their weapons are mostly there to give you something to do during cooldowns.they have alot of options when it comes to abilities. but they arent nearly as tough or aggressive as vanguards, they are however extremely good at controlling the flow of the battlefield.

[Severyx]

A lot of what you ask depends on your planned difficulty level. If you only plan on going as high as veteran, many of the play aspects of both classes remain the same. Here, it's simply a decision of whether you want to balance out biotics and weapons or focus more on biotics with some lesser weapons. Vanguards can be more aggressive in their approach, while are generally a 'beat them from behind cover' class.

If you plan on hardcore or insanity, though, then there's a particularly major difference - Difficulty curve. For the first half of the game, Vanguards handle themselves pretty well. They have ammo powers to help them change gunnery tactics on the fly, and are a bit more weapon-focused which helps big time against shielded and armored enemies. They do better with health gains at each level of their class power, I believe. They get fairly destructive late-game as well. (I don't have more than one playthrough's worth of experience on this class, so I apologize for the short detail.)

Adepts, on the other hand, face a very, very sharp initial difficulty curve. Low level biotics are more or less useless on targets with armor or shields, and even the most basic starting enemies come loaded with those. In fact, most of the fight time on an enemy is whittling down their shields or armor (or both), so keep this in mind when choosing your bonus power at the beginning. Warp can only do so much with the long cooldowns of early-game content. And adept is rough busisness.

But as soon as you start getting to the second half of the game, the tables turn pretty fast. A mindful, strategic player can absolutely wreck a battlefield, usually while utilizing only one or two well-located pieces of cover. However, remember that adepts have absolutely no effective offense against shields, so I often go for Tali's shield-drain bonus power. Overload does more damage to a shield, but it does not replenish vital shield points. Armor-focused enemies can be overwhelmed using heavy warp a number of times, and is often more effective than most guns. It may get repetitive, but when you're crushing armored enemies with heavy warp, you stop caring so much.

Also note that Adepts have the massive advantage of warp-explosion combos. This is where an adept shines. A well placed Pull Field on a single or group of shield-less, armorless enemies both renders the unit harmless for the moment, but makes their groupies liable to be be hit by the explosive AoE force of destabalization combos. Singularity works as well and does a better job of holding an affected enemy in place, but its cooldown is ungodly long compared to pull field.

Okay, so tl;dr: Up to veteran difficulty - Different playstyles, similar difficulty. Hardcore to Insanity difficulty - different playstyles, but Adept is definately the biggest challenge, but very satisfying late game.

Obviously I have a bit of a bias, but I hope it was still instrumental to your decision.

inb4 relocation to the gameplay forum

Modifié par Severyx, 23 mai 2011 - 01:37 .

[Brewtiful]

The most fun i've had in Mass Effect 2 was with my female vanguard shep with the geth shotgun.

[Sailears]

Well the main advantage of vanguards (besides damage and resilience) in ME1 is adrenaline burst, allowing you to reset cooldowns every so often.

But in any case, I wouldn't worry about adepts only being able to use light armour - once you've got barrier up there, plus the cc of singularity, lift and stasis (if you like stasis), means you don't have to worry about taking hits so much.
And then there is bastion stasis mastery (and barrier mastery), which is a big argument in its favour.

If you'd prefer going nemesis, I'd pick vanguard over adept (mainly because of AB and offensive capabilities), but there are arguments in favour of nemesis adept with decryption bonus, used in tandem with liara (with electronics).

But in any case, they aren't too dissimilar in ME1 - you can force a style of play on either class depending how you build it.


And ME2 - plenty already mentioned here.
Main difference is charge vs singularity. Also the ME2 adept can be made to play like the ME1 vanguard, but not the opposite. ME2 vanguard, although far more efficient, is more... dare I say it... limited in scope compared to ME2 adept. My personal feelings yes, so take from that what you will.

[Bozorgmehr]

If you have unlocked Singularity in ME1; and/or Shotguns there isn't much difference between em. You'll need both Singularity and Lift for max CC in ME1, though you can also bring Liara to help out. All in all it doesn't really matter much which one you chose for ME1, things change rather drastically in ME2. Here the Vanguard has become a CQC monster whist the Adept remains more or less the same (in playstyle).

I recommend playing one of em in ME1 and play ME2 with both a Vanguard and Adept. They offer two great, and completely unique experiences - well worth the time imo

[Darkstar Aurora]

My first character was an Adept (Bastion) in ME1, however I more or less played like a ME2 Vanguard by using Barrier and sprinting in to finish enemies off and immobilizing elite enemies with Stasis.

Because of this, and the reiassignment of Barrier/Stasis as Advanced Training powers, I considered converting to a Vanguard during the Lazarus project rebuild. Ultimately chose to stick with my orginal class and am glad to have done so.

Against human sized enemies a Heavy Singularity can function as a substitute as Stasis of the ME1 Bastion. It immobilizes enemies even if they have resistances and is effective against armor, barriers, and shields. Meanwhile Warp still inflicts its standard damage against all targets, it just deals double damage against armor/barriers and targets that are biotically lifted (Although you are still better off using Singularity and the SMG)

In terms of shields and higher levels I would simply note that you are intended to use your weapons as well, even if you are an Adept. The SMG Shield Piercing upgrade can be researched after visiting the Citadel and completing the first two Dossier missions on Omega. Combined with the stagger and shield-draining properties of Singularity you should be more than capable of handling Blue Suns, Geth, or 1/3 of Eclipse forces. Moreover, at this point you have Miranda & Garrus, possibly Kasumi & Zaeed, and up to+30% tech damage upgrades. Even Mordin is effective against Shields thanks to his +20% tech damage upgrade and the +50% damage boost against shields that tech powers gain (other than Overload/Energy Drain which are +100%). Plus Mordin has more health and shields than any of those characters, which lets him return fire more steadily, and compensates for the minor difference in shield damage output. Even without DLC you could handle shield heavy missions if you plan accordingly.

[Senior Cinco]

The pros/cons have been ran, for the most part. To keep the redundancy down, I'll comment like this. I just started my 5th ME1/ME2 campaign. I have been playing on insanity since it was unlocked. The Adept and Sent are the only ones I haven't experienced, in prev playthroughs. I posted in another forum, my intentions on starting a female Adept on insanity, and the reaction was 'THAT's INSANE!'

Good...Then it will pose the challenge I was looking for. No matter what build I go with, the Sniper Rifle is always trained. I have yet to kill anything with that (sigh) diesel powered rover. So far that girl has been takin' care of biss. She is comparable to the Vang char of my prev game. BTW the Vang in ME2 was the most fun I have had, with the builds thus far. I'm looking forward to ME2 with my current Lady Adept.

[Sarah_SR2]

First of all I am new to this forum and also ME2 is my first video game playthrough since playing Doom on the playstation 1 ages ago. A friend bought me ME2 to try and tempt me into gaming and I've been playing it for about 8 weeks as a vanguard. Now I'm not brilliant at close range combat yet but I'm getting there and and only have the reaper iff, legion's loyalty and the final mission to complete on normal difficulty. The great thing I've found with the vanguard is the sheer versatility of the class. I generally fight from medium range with the M12 Locust and either cryo or incendiary ammo and use biotics a lot as well, either shepard's or the ones available via the squad. Charge is great but I'm not yet quick enough in my reactions and timing at close range to be entirely safe so I'm taking my time with that although it's great for me when there are only a few weak enemies left. I think this shows that playing vanguard is not all about being in their faces with a shotgun and that you can still play a more balanced game with a multi-ranged combat style. I beat the shadow broker boss usning a combination of charge and the shotgun and Liara's warp and singularity as well as ranged attacks with the M97 Viper sniper rifle so it's all good for the vanguard. It's certainly a class I'd play it through with again.

[termokanden]

Using Charge is a bit of a leap of faith sometimes. You can often survive more than you would expect.

I started out very cautious. Now I feel like a pinball bouncing all over the place on insanity. It's well worth more than a few deaths getting to that point, because then the Vanguard becomes truly fun to play.

Modifié par termokanden, 24 mai 2011 - 08:45 .

[Sarah_SR2]

termokanden wrote...

Using Charge is a bit of a leap of faith sometimes. You can often survive more than you would expect.

I started out very cautious. Now I feel like a pinball bouncing all over the place on insanity. It's well worth more than a few deaths getting to that point, because then the Vanguard becomes truly fun to play.

Well I've had plenty of moments in the game where I've been red veined and wondered how the hell I'd survived!  It does add to the fun of it though and makes it all the more satisfying.  I am very cautious with using charge at the moment but I agree with you in that the only way to learn how to do it  property is to get in the there with it and die a load of times until the knack starts to become second nature.  I could try this actually because I have loads of saved slots in my saved game so I could just jump back to some of my favourite missions and try playing them again using plenty of charge and with no risk of affecting my overall position in the game.  I know I'm not really doing my vanguard shep proper justice at the moment (

[Senior Cinco]

Playing A Van in ME2, using Charge can mean a quick death sometimes. On the other hand it has also allowed me to escape certain death. Being overwhelmed in a crowd and targeting a weak guy outside the pocket, or even on another level, has saved me more times than a few.

EDIT: The sweet Dance of Death, or Dance of Life I should say...

Modifié par Senior Cinco, 24 mai 2011 - 02:47 .

[Zilod]

well me1 both are pretty good, with adept you are more into cc with vanguard people generally opt for a tankish build but you can also go for a nemesis cc one... and remember that in me1 the pistol is the best weapon in the game (even if AR can be ok for a bastion adept with tight rotation)

in me2 well... between the 2 i will pick the adept but i really dont like ME2 vanguard, also between mob invul to cc till they are in red and global cooldown (terrible choice on this one imo) biotic classes suffered a lot... still adept is quite viable and safe, just be prepared to spend most of your time behind some cover and to spam sing (or eventually pull) + warp

Modifié par Zilod, 24 mai 2011 - 04:04 .

[The Spamming Troll]

ME1: vanguard with singularity

ME2: adept with stasis and shotguns.

those are the two builds that will play very similarily between both games.

[atheelogos]

Vanguards man. Go for more guns since Biotics got nerfed in ME2.

[Dangerfoot]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

ME1: vanguard with singularity

ME2: adept with stasis and shotguns.

those are the two builds that will play very similarily between both games.

Yeah, since you can use your file but change classes, I'd do something like this.

[EbonyStarr]

Brewtiful wrote...

The most fun i've had in Mass Effect 2 was with my female vanguard shep with the geth shotgun.

Yes...with the inferno ammo on.  If that doesn't finish 'em, I follow up with Reave or concussive blast from Zaeed. Good times....

[JaegerBane]

Clonedzero wrote...

keep in mind, you dont need to use your shotgun all the time as a vanguard. personally i prefer using SMG's and AR's over the shotgun in most fights. i have no idea why people so heavily associate vanguards with shotguns.

instead think of vanguards as a hybrid between soldier and adept. great for an aggressive playstyle where you push forward, flank, use powers and weapons to an equal degree.

an adept is basically a pure caster. their weapons are mostly there to give you something to do during cooldowns.they have alot of options when it comes to abilities. but they arent nearly as tough or aggressive as vanguards, they are however extremely good at controlling the flow of the battlefield.

There's a lot that's misleading with this post.

1) The reason Vanguards are associated with Shotguns so much is that, alone of all the classes, they are best suited to using the shotguns optimally i.e. at point blank. No other class can create as many situations where they can do this as regularly as the Vanguard. To avoid it isn't a particularly good idea, as your ignoring one of the biggest advantages. SMGs and ARs are fine, but neither operate as well as shotguns do at the ranges the Vanguard can fight at (though the hilariously overpowered Mattock performs just as well, I'd wager, but that's more to a lack of balance rather than anything inherent to ARs).

2) Vanguards are soldier/adept hybrids in name only. In reality they do not play anything like either class. They have neither the selection of weapons and AR to achieve the all-round combat performance of the Soldier nor do they have the combo'ing abilities of an Adept. In fact their powers are poorly matched compared to both those classes. They are specialised virtually entirely towards close combat, and don't function well outside that niche. They, are however, when in that niche, virtually unstoppable.

3) According to the devs, there are no such things as 'pure casters' in ME2. All classes are apparently intended, to a certain degree, to employ both powers and weapons - the degree to which they use both is dictated by the class, but no class is supposed to 'just cast'.

4) Adepts may not be able to move as fast as Vanguards, but whether they are played as agressively depends entirely on the player. They certainly have everything they need to be played that way, provided the bonus power is chosen well.

This video demonstrates precisely what I'm talking about with regards to the Adept. This is not a class that needs to be played as a pure caster, or at the back, to achieve it's potential. It is very much the opposite.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 27 mai 2011 - 02:58 .

[kingcake777]

vangaurd + geth shotgun= rape

[Odoyle]

Vanguard has pretty much ruined me on playing any other class. Nothing beats a biotic charge followed up by a shotgun blast to the face.

Only problem is I play with noise cancelling headphones on. This leads to me shouting BAM! a lot louder than I realize at times, and me bashing the buttons on my mouse a lot harder than I should. Wonder how long the new Logitech G500 will last, or when I'll get my first noise complaint in the new place. Wife has to keep on telling me "Shhhh... honey... you're doing it again..."

>.>

[JaegerBane]

Odoyle wrote...

Vanguard has pretty much ruined me on playing any other class. Nothing beats a biotic charge followed up by a shotgun blast to the face.

I found that fun for the first few hours, but just got bored of it afterward... and the only other thing the Vanguard can do is to play like a gimped Adept. Shame, really.

[Lord Exar]

These are my two favorite classes to play. Severyx's post was probably the most informational about difficulty which is really important. If you're just playing casually and you want something fun, either class is great. I think it breaks down to Adepts are meant to play at a bit of a distance while Vanguards are meant to be up close and personal. Do they need to be played that way? Of course not, but that's what the designers were thinking when they created them, I think.

[Clonedzero]

JaegerBane wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

keep in mind, you dont need to use your shotgun all the time as a vanguard. personally i prefer using SMG's and AR's over the shotgun in most fights. i have no idea why people so heavily associate vanguards with shotguns.

instead think of vanguards as a hybrid between soldier and adept. great for an aggressive playstyle where you push forward, flank, use powers and weapons to an equal degree.

an adept is basically a pure caster. their weapons are mostly there to give you something to do during cooldowns.they have alot of options when it comes to abilities. but they arent nearly as tough or aggressive as vanguards, they are however extremely good at controlling the flow of the battlefield.

There's a lot that's misleading with this post.

1) The reason Vanguards are associated with Shotguns so much is that, alone of all the classes, they are best suited to using the shotguns optimally i.e. at point blank. No other class can create as many situations where they can do this as regularly as the Vanguard. To avoid it isn't a particularly good idea, as your ignoring one of the biggest advantages. SMGs and ARs are fine, but neither operate as well as shotguns do at the ranges the Vanguard can fight at (though the hilariously overpowered Mattock performs just as well, I'd wager, but that's more to a lack of balance rather than anything inherent to ARs).

2) Vanguards are soldier/adept hybrids in name only. In reality they do not play anything like either class. They have neither the selection of weapons and AR to achieve the all-round combat performance of the Soldier nor do they have the combo'ing abilities of an Adept. In fact their powers are poorly matched compared to both those classes. They are specialised virtually entirely towards close combat, and don't function well outside that niche. They, are however, when in that niche, virtually unstoppable.

3) According to the devs, there are no such things as 'pure casters' in ME2. All classes are apparently intended, to a certain degree, to employ both powers and weapons - the degree to which they use both is dictated by the class, but no class is supposed to 'just cast'.

4) Adepts may not be able to move as fast as Vanguards, but whether they are played as agressively depends entirely on the player. They certainly have everything they need to be played that way, provided the bonus power is chosen well.

This video demonstrates precisely what I'm talking about with regards to the Adept. This is not a class that needs to be played as a pure caster, or at the back, to achieve it's potential. It is very much the opposite.

1.) I was merely offering alternitive playstyles. however the vanguard has almost the same weapon potiential as a soldier. post collector ship you're only a single weapon less than the soldier. counting in the vanguards powerful ammo abilities ( two of the best in the game) and 15% passive ability to weapon damage and they can preform just as well at range as a soldier minus the adrenaline rush. i also didnt say to completely ignore the shotgun.

2.) the single only ability that makes them specialize in close combat is charge. shockwave and pull are both very useful abilities should you learn how to use them correctly. like i said, with the vanguards inferno ammo and +15% to weapon damage they are pretty damn good with any weapon, so limiting them to only the shotgun seems a bit silly. the lack of ability combos doesnt mean they suck out of charging though. the early on lack of an assault rifle isnt that big of a deal honestly, its only maybe a 1/3rd of the game? less if you know how to trigger the collector ship earlier (firewalker missions lol).

3.) well duh. i only said that because the entire class is focused entirely on castable abilities and all their passives are focused on those as well. thus the entire class is focused on using abilites. doesnt mean you cant use a gun.

4.) yup, adepts can be played differently than normal as well.

i admit playing a more ranged vanguard may not be 100% optimial but all i was saying was that it was perfectly viable and actually loads of fun. thats waht the game is entirely about. fun. personally i have fun with my off-base vanguard builds. i find the whole charge-shotgun charge -shotgun charge-shotgun spam to be quite tedious but i still love charge. i just use it differently than most people. i can say with full confidiance that using an AR focused vanguard (with the avenger no less) is fully possible on insanity, i'd make youtube videos but i dont have a method of video capture.

the vanguard doing more than shotgunning may not be optimial but its great fun, its like the infiltratior doing more than sniping and cloaking over and over. could the infiltratior cloak and sneak up on dudes and blast them in the face cqc style? sure, hell its more fun than sniping constantly lol.

[JaegerBane]

Clonedzero wrote...
1.) I was merely offering alternitive playstyles. however the vanguard has almost the same weapon potiential as a soldier. post collector ship you're only a single weapon less than the soldier. counting in the vanguards powerful ammo abilities ( two of the best in the game) and 15% passive ability to weapon damage and they can preform just as well at range as a soldier minus the adrenaline rush. i also didnt say to completely ignore the shotgun.

The number of weapons they have alone isn't really relevant, it's the fact that they can pick whatever weapon on the Collector ship they want, and AR boosts their combat performance regardless of what they pick. This isn't the same potential as the Vanguard by a long shot. I'm not sure what you mean saying 'I didn't say ignore the shotgun' - I was pointing out that every time you're not using the shotgun in a situation where you could Charge you're essentially gimping yourself (particularly with a Inferno Claymore), so to state that you should 'play like a soldier', or a combo of soldier and something else, isn't really good advice.

I recognise that classes don't need to be played optimally to be fun, yes, but that's missing the point in this kind of thread. You could play the whole game as pistol-wielding, AR-less, Concussive Shot-bot soldier and still succeed, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to advocate it. What you find 'fun' may not be what others find fun, as it's subjective.

2.) the single only ability that makes them specialize in close combat is charge. shockwave and pull are both very useful abilities should you learn how to use them correctly. like i said, with the vanguards inferno ammo and +15% to weapon damage they are pretty damn good with any weapon, so limiting them to only the shotgun seems a bit silly. the lack of ability combos doesnt mean they suck out of charging though. the early on lack of an assault rifle isnt that big of a deal honestly, its only maybe a 1/3rd of the game? less if you know how to trigger the collector ship earlier (firewalker missions lol).

The point is that single ability is vastly better than anything else they have. Shockwave is widely considered to be one of the worst abilities in the game on Insanity and Pull, while useful, doesn't really work that well over very long ranges (compared to things like Reave and Drone). Both biotic abilities work far better at short ranges. Since your other powers are ammos and you've got no specialised long-range stuff beyond the basics, there's no good reason to say the class works well at long range.

It may *work* at long range, but practically anything in the game can be made to work in situations it isn't very good at. That doesn't make it a good idea to advise it.

3.) well duh. i only said that because the entire class is focused entirely on castable abilities and all their passives are focused on those as well. thus the entire class is focused on using abilites. doesnt mean you cant use a gun.

I'm not really sure what you expect, here - stating something is a 'pure caster' and then claiming you didn't mean to imply they purely cast isn't being very clear, is it? The thread is supposed to be advice for the OP, it doesn't really help to bash out statements like that and then claim you meant something else. You also mentioned that weapons were there 'just to give Adepts something to do on cooldown', which is nonsense. On insanity the class wouldn't work if it didn't have weapons, as they're the best things for stripping defences.

4.) yup, adepts can be played differently than normal as well.

The difference is that adepts played different to 'normal' (by that I assume you mean right at the back) play extremely well, i.e. they play optimally (such as time spent on level, number of kills etc). You can play a Vanguard in the opposite way to their specialism, yes, but you won't get the same success as their powers aren't as flexible as the Adept's (or the Sentinel, or the Infiltrator, or anything else for that matter).

i admit playing a more ranged vanguard may not be 100% optimial but all i was saying was that it was perfectly viable and actually loads of fun. thats waht the game is entirely about. fun. personally i have fun with my off-base vanguard builds. i find the whole charge-shotgun charge -shotgun charge-shotgun spam to be quite tedious but i still love charge. i just use it differently than most people. i can say with full confidiance that using an AR focused vanguard (with the avenger no less) is fully possible on insanity, i'd make youtube videos but i dont have a method of video capture.

the vanguard doing more than shotgunning may not be optimial but its great fun, its like the infiltratior doing more than sniping and cloaking over and over. could the infiltratior cloak and sneak up on dudes and blast them in the face cqc style? sure, hell its more fun than sniping constantly lol.

I don't doubt it's possible to play a Vanguard in another fashion. It's just that most people dont like having to gimp themselves to play a different style, something every other class doesn't require. I'm not trying to tell you that you must play optimally or whatever, all I'm saying is that in an advice thread, it's best to stick with facts so the OP dude and any other readers can make up their own minds

Modifié par JaegerBane, 28 mai 2011 - 02:19 .