379 réponses à ce sujet

[Renoscott]

neppakyo wrote...

EEmotion wrote...

Actually the engine for Dragon age 2 is pretty old since it's the same engine used for Neverwinter Nights 2...

Wrong.

DAO Was a brand-new engine. Roughly started around 2004-2006 time period. NWN2 uses a modified Aurora engine (nwn1's engine).

Still, either way the DAO/2 engine is approaching a decade

To me it just seams like they need people who know how to work with there engines well, like bethesda's team dos with there tech, they saw the gambrio engine comeing toa  fail in fallout new vages and made a new one for there new elder scrolls game, and who knows maybe the next fallout will have the Creation engine in it

[neppakyo]

Renoscott wrote...
To me it just seams like they need people who know how to work with there engines well, like bethesda's team dos with there tech, they saw the gambrio engine comeing toa  fail in fallout new vages and made a new one for there new elder scrolls game, and who knows maybe the next fallout will have the Creation engine in it

I agree. CD Projekt did a better job with biowares own aurora engine with The Witcher 1 than they themselves could of.

I still think there isn't enough talented programmers in BW to handle an engine properly. imho, license an engine from another company, and hire more competent people.

[Renoscott]

neppakyo wrote...

Renoscott wrote...
To me it just seams like they need people who know how to work with there engines well, like bethesda's team dos with there tech, they saw the gambrio engine comeing toa  fail in fallout new vages and made a new one for there new elder scrolls game, and who knows maybe the next fallout will have the Creation engine in it

I agree. CD Projekt did a better job with biowares own aurora engine with The Witcher 1 than they themselves could of.

I still think there isn't enough talented programmers in BW to handle an engine properly. imho, license an engine from another company, and hire more competent people.

And theres the problem the people who made the Witcher 2 is a SMALL company and yet they turned out a truly epic RPG with a story as dirty as DAO but there is a bit more midevil real, I just dont see why Bioware dosnt hire them to do the Dragon age games, The mass effect series is fine by its self i think its perfice for what it is.

[csfteeeer]

ScepticMatt wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...
-snip-
Thedas with the Frostbite 2.0? that would be SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!....
but i REALLY  don't think that's gonna happen, maybe in the next generation....

why not?

well, to begin, the Frostbite 2.0 has currently been used only on FPSs (the only one being Battlefield 3), so, right now, it would require a very heavy modification, that alone would take a good deal of time, unlike engines like the RED Engine, which are designed for this kinda game, also, as of now, i don't someone would use the Frostbite 2.0 how it should until the next generation (same thing  thing happened with the Cryengine), and the engine is just not very versatil for now(i don't the consoles will handle Bf3 very well compared to the pc, just imaging if how many troubles would have creating a game as big and with as much content as an RPG....).
that's what i think anyway, i could be wrong, but i won't deny it, seeing worlds like Thedas (And not just Thedas, others too like Tamriel(TES), or planets from ME) with the Frostbite 2.0 would make me S&*t myself.

[In Exile]

The problem is that Bioware does not invest heavily in the environment, instead pushing a lot into character models. That's how Bioware 'cheats' when it comes to textures and graphics. In DA2, the engine couldn't handle enough of the background to even have filler NPCs rendered properly.

[In Exile]

csfteeeer wrote...
well, to begin, the Frostbite 2.0 has currently been used only on FPSs (the only one being Battlefield 3), so, right now, it would require a very heavy modification, that alone would take a good deal of time, unlike engines like the RED Engine, which are designed for this kinda game, also, as of now, i don't someone would use the Frostbite 2.0 how it should until the next generation (same thing  thing happened with the Cryengine), and the engine is just not very versatil for now(i don't the consoles will handle Bf3 very well compared to the pc, just imaging if how many troubles would have creating a game as big and with as much content as an RPG....).
that's what i think anyway, i could be wrong, but i won't deny it, seeing worlds like Thedas (And not just Thedas, others too like Tamriel(TES), or planets from ME) with the Frostbite 2.0 would make me S&*t myself.

RED is not good at all. It would need to be made CC compatible (we have no idea what facegen tools it uses) and the quality between your random TW2 elf or human and Geralt/Triss was a wide Gulf. Your average TW2 NPC looks much worse than what you can get out of the DA2 CC with high textures.

[neppakyo]

CC compatible? Character Creation?

The engine is very scalable, an was designed with limted console hardware in mind, yet keeping the amazing PC graphics for that platform.

I disagree. All the NPCs in TW2 look fine. Not as awesome as the main characters, which happens in all games. DA2 with the laughable hi-texture pack and DX 11 doesn't come close to looking as good as TW2.

[csfteeeer]

In Exile wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...
well, to begin, the Frostbite 2.0 has currently been used only on FPSs (the only one being Battlefield 3), so, right now, it would require a very heavy modification, that alone would take a good deal of time, unlike engines like the RED Engine, which are designed for this kinda game, also, as of now, i don't someone would use the Frostbite 2.0 how it should until the next generation (same thing  thing happened with the Cryengine), and the engine is just not very versatil for now(i don't the consoles will handle Bf3 very well compared to the pc, just imaging if how many troubles would have creating a game as big and with as much content as an RPG....).
that's what i think anyway, i could be wrong, but i won't deny it, seeing worlds like Thedas (And not just Thedas, others too like Tamriel(TES), or planets from ME) with the Frostbite 2.0 would make me S&*t myself.

RED is not good at all. It would need to be made CC compatible (we have no idea what facegen tools it uses) and the quality between your random TW2 elf or human and Geralt/Triss was a wide Gulf. Your average TW2 NPC looks much worse than what you can get out of the DA2 CC with high textures.

the scenarios in The Witcher 2 ALONE make me forget about this, though i do agree that lyp sinc is AWFUL, but it simply bothers because everything else SOOOOO GOOOOOD!!!

[Atakuma]

neppakyo wrote...

CC compatible? Character Creation?

The engine is very scalable, an was designed with limted console hardware in mind, yet keeping the amazing PC graphics for that platform.

Huh? Character creation has nothing to do with how scalable the game is.

[csfteeeer]

Savber100 wrote...

A new engine for DA3?

YES! Please Bioware... We can wait for 3-4 years if you would only just make a prettier game!

you completely missed the point, no one says that should just make a prettier game, obviously they have to make it better in general, but this is about the graphic aengine and nothing else, don't change the subject,
oh and btw, we(the people who were disappointed with DA2) DO can wait years, there are plenty games out there that we had to wait for years, and it was worth it, if you can't wait then that's too bad for you, but keep it to yourself.

[neppakyo]

Atakuma wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

CC compatible? Character Creation?

The engine is very scalable, an was designed with limted console hardware in mind, yet keeping the amazing PC graphics for that platform.

Huh? Character creation has nothing to do with how scalable the game is.

It was asking in response to exiles post stating "CC compatible" And I was wondering what he meant, and if it was character creation.

And a few of us do have the patience for game releases. Take Starcraft 2 and Duke Nukem for example.

[Anathemic]

neppakyo wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

CC compatible? Character Creation?

The engine is very scalable, an was designed with limted console hardware in mind, yet keeping the amazing PC graphics for that platform.

Huh? Character creation has nothing to do with how scalable the game is.

It was asking in response to exiles post stating "CC compatible" And I was wondering what he meant, and if it was character creation.

And a few of us do have the patience for game releases. Take Starcraft 2 and Duke Nukem for example.

Please don't compare a good game like SC2 to a gimmicky franchise that is Duke Nukem.

[neppakyo]

Anathemic wrote...

Please don't compare a good game like SC2 to a gimmicky franchise that is Duke Nukem.

I'm talking about years of waiting, and they are the two newest games out that had a +10 year wait!

I liked Duke Nukem 3D. Fun, crude and hilarious!

Oh, and Diablo 3 is gunna be out soon.

[Anathemic]

neppakyo wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Please don't compare a good game like SC2 to a gimmicky franchise that is Duke Nukem.

I'm talking about years of waiting, and they are the two newest games out that had a +10 year wait!

I liked Duke Nukem 3D. Fun, crude and hilarious!

Oh, and Diablo 3 is gunna be out soon.

Diablo 3 **** yeah!  I can't wait until Blizzard restarts the StarCraft: Ghost project, was really looking forward to it during its production.

[In Exile]

neppakyo wrote...

CC compatible? Character Creation?

Yes

The engine is very scalable, an was designed with limted console hardware in mind, yet keeping the amazing PC graphics for that platform.

If you play it on low-med with some features missing on med, the graphics are solid but not phenomenal. But that's not the point.

I disagree. All the NPCs in TW2 look fine. Not as awesome as the main characters, which happens in all games. DA2 with the laughable hi-texture pack and DX 11 doesn't come close to looking as good as TW2.

I didn't say they looked bad. I said that Geralt, Iorverth et al. look phenomenal at max settings. But the other NPCs look much worse for wear. And Bioware can't hand sculpt most of the NPCs in-game.

The technical problems that RED solves are different than those that Bioware builds games around.

[neppakyo]

In Exile wrote...


I didn't say they looked bad. I said that Geralt, Iorverth et al. look phenomenal at max settings. But the other NPCs look much worse for wear. And Bioware can't hand sculpt most of the NPCs in-game.

The technical problems that RED solves are different than those that Bioware builds games around.

I'm sure there are tools in the SDK that handle what you're talking about, but its really moot unless we can see more tech details of the various engines.

But I think we both can agree that BW needs to hire more people or become better at doing environments and NPCs.

[Lyrandori]

DA3's development already started, it will most likely be released on multi-platforms, namely (and again) the XBOX 360 and the PS3 (and of course the PC), which in turn means that all they can do is to perhaps enhance the current engine a bit more from what it is in DA2 (which is already an enhanced version of DAO's engine). I highly doubt that DA3 will run under a completely new engine, if that's the case we won't have DA3 until a good 4+ years from now (if they do lots of work on that alone like they did to create the engine for DAO in the first place which took lots of time).

In my humble opinion I think that DA2's engine is sufficient. A couple of more upgrades here and there would be enough, better shadow and light effects, full DX11 support, perhaps more (or "better") physics effects for clothes and hair, bigger environments, better vegetation (à-la SpeedTree, with leaves moving to simulate the presence of wind)... I mean I'm sure that enhancing DA2's engine a bit would be enough. Surely a new engine would be "better" for overall improvement but at this point in time it'd be unrealistic to do (not to wish) considering that BioWare already started the development for it.

[csfteeeer]

Lyrandori wrote...

DA3's development already started, it will most likely be released on multi-platforms, namely (and again) the XBOX 360 and the PS3 (and of course the PC), which in turn means that all they can do is to perhaps enhance the current engine a bit more from what it is in DA2 (which is already an enhanced version of DAO's engine). I highly doubt that DA3 will run under a completely new engine, if that's the case we won't have DA3 until a good 4+ years from now (if they do lots of work on that alone like they did to create the engine for DAO in the first place which took lots of time).

In my humble opinion I think that DA2's engine is sufficient. A couple of more upgrades here and there would be enough, better shadow and light effects, full DX11 support, perhaps more (or "better") physics effects for clothes and hair, bigger environments, better vegetation (à-la SpeedTree, with leaves moving to simulate the presence of wind)... I mean I'm sure that enhancing DA2's engine a bit would be enough. Surely a new engine would be "better" for overall improvement but at this point in time it'd be unrealistic to do (not to wish) considering that BioWare already started the development for it.

Actually, they haven't actually started the development yet, or at least haven't said anything, the Twitter of the announcement of DA3 was that they were HIRING people to work on DA3, and once they do, they would start, i think they still have time to change engine, and they really should imo, technically the DA series is extremely lacking, and i don't care if i have to wait years, i got plenty other games that i can play while i wait, i just want them to redeem the series for everybody and make the best game they can deliver.

[In Exile]

At any rate, I think graphics fall under `nice perks` for me. The real question, IMO, is how Bioware can exploit the DA2 engine to get the proper feel for the game. If it comes down to the engine being entirely incapable of rendering the type of big city environments that the DA team wants, then Bioware needs to return to the modular traveling sets of DA:O.

It just seems like Bioware believed that story took precedent and set the game in a place where the engine just was not capable of building properly.

[In Exile]

neppakyo wrote...

I'm sure there are tools in the SDK that handle what you're talking about, but its really moot unless we can see more tech details of the various engines.

But I think we both can agree that BW needs to hire more people or become better at doing environments and NPCs.

Yes. They also need better map designers. Kirkwall didn't look like a city, even in the small sections that we saw.

That being said, I don't mind the cartoony style for NPCs. They can get decent facial structures. The problem is the face texture. I'm going to post a picture of one PC I have to show what I mean.

Modifié par In Exile, 31 mai 2011 - 04:53 .

[neppakyo]

In Exile wrote...

Yes. They also need better map designers. Kirkwall didn't look like a city, even in the small sections that we saw.

That being said, I don't mind the cartoony style for NPCs. They can get decent facial structures. The problem is the face texture. I'm going to post a picture of one PC I have to show what I mean.

Damn.. You had to remind me of the maps, didn't you? Even GPS' would go "*throws hands up in the air* Eff it. You're on your own"

[In Exile]

neppakyo wrote...
Damn.. You had to remind me of the maps, didn't you? Even GPS' would go "*throws hands up in the air* Eff it. You're on your own"

It's a fundamental design problem.

ETA:

Here's a picture of one of the Hawke's I designed with some better textures via mods. Nothing fancy, but certainly the engine could get decent faces.

tinypic messed with the resolution. It's not 1920x1280 but that's my native resolution so it looks scaled down.

Modifié par In Exile, 31 mai 2011 - 04:57 .

[ScepticMatt]

csfteeeer wrote...
well, to begin, the Frostbite 2.0 has currently been used only on FPSs (the only one being Battlefield 3), so, right now, it would require a very heavy modification

EA Plans to use it for multiple genres. Right now, Need for Speed: The run is confirmed using it. It would still use some work to adapt RPG features true, but if you read some publications or the other Thread you'll notice how adaptable it is.

i don't the consoles will handle Bf3 very well compared to the pc, just imaging if how many troubles would have creating a game as big and with as much content as an RPG....

If there is one thing frostbite can do well, it's huge environments.


Not saying Frostbite 2 is without negatives (no Windows XP or 32 bit Support, high requirements, modding problematic for a while), but it is a damn nice Engine if they want to adapt one. At least beats developing a new one.

Modifié par ScepticMatt, 31 mai 2011 - 05:02 .

[neppakyo]

In Exile wrote...


ETA:

Here's a picture of one of the Hawke's I designed with some better textures via mods. Nothing fancy, but certainly the engine could get decent faces.

tinypic messed with the resolution. It's not 1920x1280 but that's my native resolution so it looks scaled down.

That is a better looking one. I see what you're saying, but yeah. They'd need to invest a few resources to get the most out of the current engine, if we can have good character models and good environments and npcs.

[In Exile]

Just to show the variety the engine is capable of, here's a wizen old man:

Modifié par In Exile, 31 mai 2011 - 05:18 .