379 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

relhart wrote...

The difference being, DA2 is designed to run on a consoles 2gigs of shared memory, that means **** textures, **** enviromental and level designs, **** camera options and **** AI schemes. You aren't going going to make a playable PC game (by modern standards) limiting it to 1/16 of it's hardware capabilities.

Wow, ignorent comment is ignorent. There are plenty of console games that have great enviromental and level designs and have good textures.

[ObserverStatus]

Agamo45 wrote...

A better engine and a less cartoony art style for sure. They were going for "gritty" in DA2 but I thought Origins pulled that off better.

if by that, you mean DA:O's textures look like water colors painted onto coffee filters.....

[ObserverStatus]

Mr.House wrote...

relhart wrote...

The difference being, DA2 is designed to run on a consoles 2gigs of shared memory, that means **** textures, **** enviromental and level designs, **** camera options and **** AI schemes. You aren't going going to make a playable PC game (by modern standards) limiting it to 1/16 of it's hardware capabilities.

Wow, ignorent comment is ignorent. There are plenty of console games that have great enviromental and level designs and have good textures.

Exactly! If it used unreal 3 and had us much detail in the artwork as ME2, only people with the most expensive pc's would be complaining.

[Merci357]

Mr.House wrote...

relhart wrote...

The difference being, DA2 is designed to run on a consoles 2gigs of shared memory, that means **** textures, **** enviromental and level designs, **** camera options and **** AI schemes. You aren't going going to make a playable PC game (by modern standards) limiting it to 1/16 of it's hardware capabilities.

Wow, ignorent comment is ignorent. There are plenty of console games that have great enviromental and level designs and have good textures.

Yep, there are. Do you think consoles could run TW2 on ultra settings? I doubt it, somehow. And yet people compare these graphics to a multiplatform title.

[inkjay]

Mr.House wrote...

DA2 uses the same engine as DAO which was a PC game. The engine was used for TW, which was a PC game. It's not a console engine. Nice try.

It might be the case, but there is a real difference in assests created with PC limitations in mind, then ported to consoles than the other way around. DA2 in scope is created first and foremeost from a console perspective, from the layout of the world, to the low poly count of models and low fidelity textures, and even things like where to have loading screens. Bioware games in general are guilty of this (see Mass Effect armor blurry textures on PC), it doesn't matter if the game CAN be played on PC, it matters how.

To many DA:O still looks better on PC than DA2 due to this.

Mr.House wrote...

Wow, ignorent comment is ignorent. There
are plenty of console games that have great enviromental and level
designs and have good textures.

Ok, you seemed fixed in this idea. Care to name a few examples of multiplatform games like this?

Modifié par inkjay, 23 mai 2011 - 07:47 .

[hexaligned]

They also seem to have missed the part where DAO had to be completely redone to even get it to run on consoles, and even with all the cuts it was still a stuttering lagy mess.  It was also on the lower end of the scale as far as PC requirements in the first place.

Modifié par relhart, 23 mai 2011 - 07:48 .

[xX N7 Xx]

Let's be frank, Bioware wants to sell 5 mill+ copies but they don't want to take the time like Blizzard or Bethesda do or put the people and expenses behind the development like Ubi does with AC, so the only thing they got left is streamlining the game to attract new audiences. A new engine is completely out of the plans for that.

]
As long as I can be George.

Modifié par xX N7 Xx, 23 mai 2011 - 07:47 .

[Romantiq]

bobobo878 wrote...

I never understood why the Dragon Age series couldn't just use Unreal 3 like Mass Effect.

ME2's loading times are awful. Don't know if it has something to do with the engine though.

[Mr.House]

Merci357 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

relhart wrote...

The difference being, DA2 is designed to run on a consoles 2gigs of shared memory, that means **** textures, **** enviromental and level designs, **** camera options and **** AI schemes. You aren't going going to make a playable PC game (by modern standards) limiting it to 1/16 of it's hardware capabilities.

Wow, ignorent comment is ignorent. There are plenty of console games that have great enviromental and level designs and have good textures.

Yep, there are. Do you think consoles could run TW2 on ultra settings? I doubt it, somehow. And yet people compare these graphics to a multiplatform title.

Yup, if TW2 is brought to the console it won't look as good as the PC but that does not mean it will be an ugly game or it's level deisgn will be crappy=]

[Teredan]

inkjay wrote...

Ok, you seemed fixed in this idea. Care to name a few examples of multiplatform games like this?

Crysis 2, MW, Deus Ex 3, Fallout 3, Darksiders, ME2, AC2 etc etc...

Not saying that consoles don't hold PC games back but that's not the point. Point is multiplatform games looking better than DA2 are out there.

Modifié par Teredan, 23 mai 2011 - 07:54 .

[ObserverStatus]

Romantiq wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

I never understood why the Dragon Age series couldn't just use Unreal 3 like Mass Effect.

ME2's loading times are awful. Don't know if it has something to do with the engine though.

I think that had more to do with hardware limitations.  Personally I'm hoping that the next generation of consoles will do away with optical formats alltogether, the loading screens would be a lot faster if they shipped the games on usb 3.0 flash memory.  Blu ray discs can hold a lot of data, but when the playstation tries to load from it, it's like someone trying to eat a wagon of pudding with a straw.

Modifié par bobobo878, 23 mai 2011 - 07:55 .

[Mr.House]

inkjay wrote...



Ok, you seemed fixed in this idea. Care to name a few examples of multiplatform games like this?

Why does multiplatform make a diffrence. Yes the PC version of the game that's out for the console will look better but that does not mean the console version will look horrible, nor does it mean the level design will be bad.

If you really think that then you need to play more games.

[inkjay]

Teredan wrote...

inkjay wrote...

Ok, you seemed fixed in this idea. Care to name a few examples of multiplatform games like this?

Crysis 2, MW, Deus Ex 3, Fallout 3, Darksiders, ME2, AC2 etc etc...

Clearly you've yet to see how this games run in PC vs consoles, but one by one:

CryEngine 3 is made with porteability in mind. It is made with consoles in mind first clearly shown by the lack of DX11 support. It runs at 24fps~ at the lowest PC settings. It is a commendable effort, and the better looking of the lot and the fact remains that environments are very small compared to Crysis 1 just for the game to run acceptably in consoles.

MW runs laughably bad on consoles, the fact that you don't know (or don't seem to care) that in order to run at 60fps in consoles it deosn't even renders at 720p is telling. It uses a modified Quake engine for christs sake, hardly the better looking software out there. It is also a corridor shooter with very small areas.

Fallout 3... yeah, go see this game on a PC at 1080p and then see if you still think textures are "high res" on consoles.

Darksiders framerate is horrible on consoles and it is not big in scope at all. PC only benefits of higher res textures.
ME2 I've mentioned it before. Blurry textures are blurry... that version of UE3 hardly pushes PC hardware anymore.

AC2 is impressive on consoles to say the least if it were not that it lacks a comprehensive AA solution. Your only good example so far...

And Deus Ex isn't even out yet so I fail to see how you know this game can run. If you've mentioned Just Cause 2 I may have believed you, were it not for the fact that its development was PC centric, and not consoloe centric.

[inkjay]

Mr.House wrote...

inkjay wrote...



Ok, you seemed fixed in this idea. Care to name a few examples of multiplatform games like this?

Why does multiplatform make a diffrence. Yes the PC version of the game that's out for the console will look better but that does not mean the console version will look horrible, nor does it mean the level design will be bad.

If you really think that then you need to play more games.

I'm merely talking about PC centric vs console centric development. My point is that due to this limitations DA2 on PC looks actually worse than what the engine is capable of, simply because Bioware didn't think it was worth it to produce assets that benefit current PC software, that is ALL I'm saying, not that a game is inherently good or bad due to this. There are clearly excellent console based games like Uncharted 2 and excellent PC based games like Shogun.

Modifié par inkjay, 23 mai 2011 - 08:06 .

[ObserverStatus]

inkjay wrote...
Fallout 3... yeah, go see this game on a PC at 1080p and then see if you still think textures are "high res" on consoles

I'll give you that one, fallout 3 actaully looked better on my sd tv than my 1080p one, the blurriness helped make the textures look less pixelated.

Modifié par bobobo878, 23 mai 2011 - 08:05 .

[Kuroi Kenshi]

I vote on frostbite II engine, DICE already said that the engine is avaliable for other EA parterns, also the engine is more future proof since it doesn't use the DX9 API, and before someone says, frostbite is a shooter engine, the engine is also used on the new Need for Speed: Run
Also you doen's want an RPG with awesome physics image the destruction a mage could unleash

[bleetman]

Romantiq wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

I never understood why the Dragon Age series couldn't just use Unreal 3 like Mass Effect.

ME2's loading times are awful. Don't know if it has something to do with the engine though.

Mass Effect 2's loading screens aren't actually loading screens. They're .bik movies. The load times are so long because the game effectively waits until they're done playing before you're taken to the next level.

You can tinker with an .ini file to replace which movie plays when loading levels, and they're done in seconds. It's bizarre.

[Teredan]

inkjay wrote...

Teredan wrote...

inkjay wrote...

Ok, you seemed fixed in this idea. Care to name a few examples of multiplatform games like this?

Crysis 2, MW, Deus Ex 3, Fallout 3, Darksiders, ME2, AC2 etc etc...

Clearly you've yet to see how this games run in PC vs consoles, but one by one:

CryEngine 3 is made with porteability in mind. It is made with consoles in mind first clearly shown by the lack of DX11 support. It runs at 24fps~ at the lowest PC settings. It is a commendable effort, and the better looking of the lot and the fact remains that environments are very small compared to Crysis 1 just for the game to run acceptably in consoles.

MW runs laughably bad on consoles, the fact that you don't know (or don't seem to care) that in order to run at 60fps in consoles it deosn't even renders at 720p is telling. It uses a modified Quake engine for christs sake, hardly the better looking software out there. It is also a corridor shooter with very small areas.

Fallout 3... yeah, go see this game on a PC at 1080p and then see if you still think textures are "high res" on consoles.

Darksiders framerate is horrible on consoles and it is not big in scope at all. PC only benefits of higher res textures.
ME2 I've mentioned it before. Blurry textures are blurry... that version of UE3 hardly pushes PC hardware anymore.

AC2 is impressive on consoles to say the least if it were not that it lacks a comprehensive AA solution. Your only good example so far...

And Deus Ex isn't even out yet so I fail to see how you know this game can run. If you've mentioned Just Cause 2 I may have believed you, were it not for the fact that its development was PC centric, and not consoloe centric.

That's not what your have argued against. You argued against this

Mr.House wrote...

Wow, ignorent comment is ignorent. There
are plenty of console games that have great enviromental and level
designs and have good textures.

and I've proven you wrong.
I've not argued about performance issues that's also why I can make a statement about Deus Ex 3 where plenty of screens are out. That said, I have Darksiders for PS3 which runs perfectly fine. I don't get your AC2 argument, I mean that game looks still good among all current releases. Where did you get that I thought that Fallout 3 looked high res on consoles? I stated it looks better than DA2 does. High res textures don't make up for blandness textures.

*edit ok sorry for that last sentence it was inappropriate but I kind of got annoyed this being the 10th time where stuff gets interpreted into my posts that I didnt write*

Modifié par Teredan, 23 mai 2011 - 08:16 .

[inkjay]

Kuroi Kenshi wrote...

I vote on frostbite II engine, DICE already said that the engine is avaliable for other EA parterns, also the engine is more future proof since it doesn't use the DX9 API, and before someone says, frostbite is a shooter engine, the engine is also used on the new Need for Speed: Run

Well an engine also manages other stuff under the hood like AI, memory allocation, sound (which DICE are particularly excellent about), even NPC pathfinding and quests input, networking etc.They are rarely rendering and physics solutions only.

The Dragon Age engine can look good provided they put the time and resources behind it, but I agree that is a terribly outdated engine, especially if you take into account the kind of game Bioware wants to make. It worked very well for isometric strategic combat, but my guess is that it really can't keep up with the detailed action and animations they went for in DA2, thus they had to cut back the number of NPCs on screen at any given time, the view distance and texture work.
This might also explain other stupid decisions like having waves of enemies instead of good AI scripted ones. Or it might just have been lazyness/release date pressure on their part.

Teredan wrote...

and I've proven you wrong. I've not argued about performance issues that's also why I can make a statement about Deus Ex 3 where plenty of screens are out. That said, I have Darksiders for PS3 which runs perfectly fine. I don't get your AC2 argument, I mean that game looks still good among all current releases. Where did you get that I thought that Fallout 3 looked high res on consoles? I stated it looks better than DA2 does. High res textures don't make up for blandness textures.

*edit ok sorry for that
last sentence it was inappropriate but I kind of got annoyed this being
the 10th time where stuff gets interpreted into my posts that I didnt
write*

Probably should expalin myself better but "good environmental design and good textures" are awfuly subjective terms, and in any case dependant on the performance of the game. So yes, I don't see how one can argue good environmental design or textures from screens if you can't even see ow the game runs first hand.
Also that consoles are not limiting PC games, when they have to be designed with a strict RAM limitation and for video cards more than five years old, is a dumb argument and that was my point towards the other poster.

Many of the games you mentioned simply  are very limited in scope due to that. AC2 is the only really good example  of nice draw distances, good textures for consoles and nice amount of geometry. To me it is more impressive than things like Killzone or even Uncharted sometimes.

Modifié par inkjay, 23 mai 2011 - 08:37 .

[Sir Caradoc]

Dragon Age engine is not bad. they just don't use it well. If it doesn't support large cities, well don't use large cities as a setting. I have to question this though. Just look at the latest Warden's fall episodes on youtube and compare it to DA2. Those amateurs proved that Dragon age engine has tons of untapped potential. Even the dragon orgins used the engine far batter than the updated sequel.

Modifié par Sir Caradoc, 23 mai 2011 - 08:25 .

[Realmzmaster]

I have a question does any one know if the Red engine can handle a Party based game and if so how may members could the party have? Or is the engine optimized for a single character? If it can be used how much customization would be necessary? Because that will automatically add to the development time. Also giving the fact that the development team would have to learn the new engine. It is easy to say you need a new engine, but that will most definitely mean you may not see DAIII for quite sometime.

[astrallite]

More likely DA3 will reuse DAO assets for it's units and weapons, same engine, and recycle areas again. EA is probably happy about their sales for an 18 month development time, and this is going to be like a $60 premium module franchise.