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[jds1bio]

Kuroi Kenshi wrote...

Diceyy wrote...

It'd be both awesome and ironic if they used cdprojekts new engine. Even if you don't like the story in witcher 2 you can't deny that the visuals in that game are drop dead gorgeous

It has the best forest that i saw in a videogame, even better than the one in crysis 

Agreed.  And I still think the first Witcher's swamp is the best videogame swamp to date (but it didn't make having to traverse it 100 times any easier)

The overhaul engine-wise that I think Dragon Age could use (and many games, frankly) is in facial animation.  You can bump up the tessellation and texture resolution on characters and scenery all you want, but when angry or sad or shouted lines get delivered with the same eyebrow-raised, lip-curled, and otherwise lip-synced stone-face, dramatic and emotional opportunities for presentation and gameplay are missed.  Imagine being able to choose a particular facial expression as part of a response to an NPC, perhaps avoiding an unintended ambiguity in words.

[daemon1129]

I am no expert on game engines or only anything related to it, so here it goes. Why can't Dragon age use the unreal engine? ME uses it, and it runs well and look fairly well (textures are a bit low res).

[Zanallen]

daemon1129 wrote...

I am no expert on game engines or only anything related to it, so here it goes. Why can't Dragon age use the unreal engine? ME uses it, and it runs well and look fairly well (textures are a bit low res).

From what I recall, the Unreal engine doesn't allow for optimal companion control. Which is why ME doesn't allow you to switch to your companions and use them in the same manner you can Shepard.

[dino1980]

devSin wrote...

Diceyy wrote...

It'd be both awesome and ironic if they used cdprojekts new engine.

Disregarding that this wouldn't even be an option, they can't use an engine that doesn't have working console support. Period.

Actually CD Projects new engine is designed to also work on consoles.

[Zanallen]

dino1980 wrote...

devSin wrote...

Diceyy wrote...

It'd be both awesome and ironic if they used cdprojekts new engine.

Disregarding that this wouldn't even be an option, they can't use an engine that doesn't have working console support. Period.

Actually CD Projects new engine is designed to also work on consoles.

Well, the real issue would be if the Red engine can be optimized to allow for companion control.

[In Exile]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

They need to call up CDP Red and ask for the Red engine. They used the Aurora engine for TW1, why shoulldn't CDP Red return the favor?

Red won't work for Bioware. Faces are generic (and aside from main characters like Geralt, Triss, etc. are very poor quality) in Red, and it may not be capable of using face morph software for a create a character, both of which are crucial to Bioware. Even if they'd license Red, they'd need to heavily modify it to make it work for DA3.

[dino1980]

Zanallen wrote...

dino1980 wrote...

devSin wrote...

Diceyy wrote...

It'd be both awesome and ironic if they used cdprojekts new engine.

Disregarding that this wouldn't even be an option, they can't use an engine that doesn't have working console support. Period.

Actually CD Projects new engine is designed to also work on consoles.

Well, the real issue would be if the Red engine can be optimized to allow for companion control.

Isnt that just about programming, and not the engine itself? Ive read about FPS-engines being used in racing-games so why couldnt this "companion control" be done?

[SwordsmanofShadow]

Dragon Age needs either a new engine, or a massive update to the one they are currently using.

Look at screens from some major RPG releases this year:

Skyrim


Deus Ex HR


The Witcher 2


DA2



Graphically, which one stands out? At a glance, I would think DA2 was last Gen.

Graphics aren't everything, but they are becoming a more important factor in games as technology evolves. If the Dragon Age universe is to survive and compete, it has to improve its graphics, especially as time goes on and competitors build bigger and better engines for their RPG's.

Modifié par SwordsmanofShadow, 24 mai 2011 - 07:04 .

[Esbatty]

NO new engine, thats gonna slow things down. The engine is not a problem. If the time scale is going to be the same for DA3 as was DA2, we don't need to introduce a new time consuming part to the game creation period.

[Diceyy]

Esbatty wrote...

NO new engine, thats gonna slow things down. The engine is not a problem. If the time scale is going to be the same for DA3 as was DA2, we don't need to introduce a new time consuming part to the game creation period.

I would consider slowing things down a good thing at this point. Less development time does not a high quality game make.

Modifié par Diceyy, 24 mai 2011 - 07:06 .

[PlumPaul93]

agreed. The only downside is it might give them another excuse to make a lackluster game saying they put a lot of effort into a new engine. Using the same engine again while outdated would only be acceptable if the gameplay and story are much better than DA2. Still won't happen though...

[Esbatty]

Diceyy wrote...

Esbatty wrote...

NO new engine, thats gonna slow things down. The engine is not a problem. If the time scale is going to be the same for DA3 as was DA2, we don't need to introduce a new time consuming part to the game creation period.

I would consider slowing things down a good thing at this point. Less development time does not a high quality game make.

If EA wants a fast development time, we don't want Bioware to go doing fancy schmancy time consuming stuff (like learning how to deal with a new game engine) that will eat into the development time of a proper DA sequel. I do want them to have a longer dev time but that might not be the case.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

IMO, Bioware does not need a new engine. It simply needs to better utilise the one it has.

If Witcher 1 was made on the Neverwinter Nights engine and Fallout 3/NV were still made on the Morrowind engine, it's definitely not an issue of limited technology, yet.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 24 mai 2011 - 07:11 .

[mesmerizedish]

mrcrusty wrote...

If Witcher 1 was made on the Neverwinter Nights engine and Fallout 3/NV were still made on the Morrowind engine, it's definitely not an issue of limited technology, yet.

Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas were made on Oblivion's engine. Oblivion was made on an up-to-date version of Morrowind's engine.

Fallout 3 looked bad in 2007. New Vegas looks absolutely horrendous.

The reason the franchise needs a new engine doesn't really have anything to do with graphics. But it does need a new engine.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I dunno, I think Fallout 3 looked pretty good when it came out and both games with a texture mod slapped on look great.

I would think that a new engine would do them some good, but it's not something I'd consider necessary, especially with the idea of EA trying to push for more games being released quickly.

Why do you think they need one, though?

[mesmerizedish]

mrcrusty wrote...

Why do you think they need one, though?

First, every reason 'Shorts brings up. DAII's engine can't tell DAII's story. We're told that Kirkwall is a huge, bustling city. Merrill says she's never been anywhere as crowded as the alienage (have you seen the alienage? riiiiight). This isn't because the devs couldn't be bothered to stick more NPCs around. It's because the engine can't support that many NPCs at once.

And here's my reason: DAII is not substantially different from Origins in terms of how it's made. But it's just different enough that it simply doesn't fit into the Origins framework. All the changes feel tacked-on to a system that isn't designed to support them. It doesn't break the game, but it shows. They talked tough about how they were really working at the engine to make DAII "super hot." That was the biggest line of marketing bullsh*t.

They tried to fit DAII into Origins' box. What they needed to have done (and need to do for DAIII) is make a new box. Build the foundation for the game, the framework, etc. with that game's design in mind. They don't want to write a new engine with every game, because that's ridiculous. But the engine needs to support the design philosophy. DAII's doesn't. It supports Origins' design philosophy. The changes are slight, but they're big enough, and there are a lot of them. This would have been the perfect time for a new engine that can support the franchise's new direction.

What I see tossed around the boards every now and again is that BioWare suck at writing engines and should license a better one. That absolutely cannot happen. If they suck at writing engines, they need to hire better programmers. Because once they start licensing their engine, we're never going to get a toolset again. And as I've explained elsewhere, support for the modding community needs to become a vital part of the DA franchise's business strategy.

[upsettingshorts]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

First, every reason 'Shorts brings up. DAII's engine can't tell DAII's story.

To be fair there's actually two potential solutions to this.  One of them is make a new engine capable of telling such stories.

The other one is to limit the writers to stories the engine is actually capable of effectively delivering. 

The latter would, presumably, require less development resources.

[KazenoKoe]

inkjay wrote...

ME_Fan wrote...

st6212 wrote...

With the timeframe they have till expected release, I doubt it.

How long a development cycle do people think it will be? I hope it is much longer than what DA2 had. DA2 was okay, but I'm bit dissapointed by it. (Haven't finished it) However, I have very high hopes for DAIII.

It will be 6 months longer than before, not more. DA 2 = 18 months, DA 3 = 2 years.

They just "delayed" ME2 to keep it in a 2 year cycle, and that is using the Unreal Engine they are already very used to. The development of a new engine together with DA3 would take at least a couple of years longer and frankly EA & Bioware can't don't want to afford it, especially for the third game in a series they intend to ship while this generation is still relevant. (I don't think it will be limited to a trilogy tho).

Let's be frank, Bioware wants to sell 5 mill+ copies but they don't want to take the time like Blizzard or Bethesda do or put the people and expenses behind the development like Ubi does with AC, so the only thing they got left is streamlining the game to attract new audiences. A new engine is completely out of the plans for that.

This is what Bioware will do: make a list of the most vocal criticisms like tiered stories, useless MMO like quests and repetiton of dungeons/enemy waves and "fix" them by getting rid of them completely and basically make the same game on top of those "new ideas". That is how ME2 happened. It will be a shorter, more focused game, with hopefully a different/better environmental artists and it will  include another redesign that moves away from DA2. Bows still won't have bowstrings and NPCs will still look like cardboard cutouts because development will still be console based.

I can't anticipate what the reception will be yet, it might be good (I doubt it) but it won't be a different game, which is basically what The Witcher 2 is. That game took 4 years, new technology and real passion to make. With SWTOR moneysink coming out "soon" and the console cycle moving on Bioware can't be distracted by thing like passion and careful gamemaking, when they have to be pleasing investors who approved this company be bought at almost 1 billion dollars, of which they have yet to make a cent back.

Amen,he speaks the truth.

[Xewaka]

mrcrusty wrote...
Why do you think they need one, though?

Kirkwall, allegedly, is bustling with refugees, and before that is was already a bustling, highly populated city. Due to engine limitations (at least, that's the official version), what we actually see in game is a ghost town.

[Zeevico]

I'd be happier with a game that's finished as opposed to a game that looks sparkly. But that's just imo.

[mesmerizedish]

Zeevico wrote...

I'd be happier with a game that's finished as opposed to a game that looks sparkly. But that's just imo.

Well, I'm of the mind that a good portion of why the game feels "unfinished" is because all the new stuff is tacked-on to the old stuff.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I'm not really 100% sure.

This was exactly the same complaint leveled at New Vegas. The city was not only small, but it was far from bustling. It was the very definition of "underwhelming". "Bustling casinos" had 3-4 gamblers, etc etc. A few mods later and that problem is fixed. The city is no longer split up into 3 tiny cells and each casino has over a dozen people at the tables, slots and what have you.

Yes, the engine is different, but I don't believe that the engine isn't powerful enough. It's likely a technical limitation brought on by consoles and lower power PCs. I think though, that NPC scaling via main menu settings would've been a nice touch.

So the problem becomes, can you re-code the engine to become efficient enough to get the job done as opposed to getting a new one.

But personally, I find the holographic NPCs to be outright lazy or indicative of a rushed job. There's no excusing that in a AAA game. I've seen more detail in the "crowds" of sports games.

I am just not buying the "the engine isn't powerful enough" line a whole lot. I mean, Denerim felt more lively with those kids running around and people talking.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 24 mai 2011 - 07:48 .

[upsettingshorts]

I don't think its the engine's power that is in question, it's how it can handle things. I mean, drive around LA Noire and you'll see a larger, better textured, more expansive and populated environment than Kirkwall and it's a console exclusive game.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't think its the engine's power that is in question, it's how it can handle things. I mean, drive around LA Noire and you'll see a larger, better textured, more expansive and populated environment than Kirkwall and it's a console exclusive game.

Which is the point I was talking about. It's not that the engine can't do it, it's just that they haven't gotten it efficiently enough to work on all platforms. To me, it's a matter of optimisation. Not an outright engine change.

IMO, that would take a lot of time, especially if EA wants a quick release.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 24 mai 2011 - 07:54 .