278 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave666]

daqs wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Are you deliberately missing the point?  I said that in order to get your Headshots you had to strip all protections first, as in don't strip completely and you do almost no damage whatsoever and basically waste a bullet.  Would that be fair?

It would be nonsensical.

Why?

[Aimi]

Dave666 wrote...

daqs wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Are you deliberately missing the point?  I said that in order to get your Headshots you had to strip all protections first, as in don't strip completely and you do almost no damage whatsoever and basically waste a bullet.  Would that be fair?

It would be nonsensical.

Why?

Because then it wouldn't be one shot, one kill, by definition.  It would be "a bunch of shots and/or defense-stripping power uses, then one shot...one kill".

[Dave666]

daqs wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

daqs wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Are you deliberately missing the point?  I said that in order to get your Headshots you had to strip all protections first, as in don't strip completely and you do almost no damage whatsoever and basically waste a bullet.  Would that be fair?

It would be nonsensical.

Why?

Because then it wouldn't be one shot, one kill, by definition.  It would be "a bunch of shots and/or defense-stripping power uses, then one shot...one kill".

Indeed.  The Infiltrator at its core is about using the Sniper Rifle and getting headshots.  It can be played other ways, but thats its main role.

The Adept is about using Biotics to play with the enemies.  

So why is it fine for a class like the Infiltrator to play the role it was designed for, while the Adept is prevented from doing the same?

This is the problem with Protections, it is litterally just a coloured health bar to the gun-centric classes.

Modifié par Dave666, 27 mai 2011 - 11:27 .

[CajNatalie]

I've said in an earlier post... ultimately what you always need to do is kill everything before you.

If the Infiltrator can pick someone and make them dead or on the brink of being dead without squadmate assistance just like that, while the Adept is busy having to be a team player to get someone CC'd to set them up to then die more easily... there's a problem.

They are comparable.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 28 mai 2011 - 01:07 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

DieBySword wrote...

The thing is noone wants biotic to go back to the OP state of ME1 and work even on 3 protection bar enemies. We want biotics to work on some protections and not on others,and even if they work they should have different effects (lesser ones than the orginal on an unprotected enemie). Its a bit unfair gun centered classes have no problem with protections when certain biotics abilitys are tied to only one layer and other dont work on anything that had even 1 layer except health. Noone is saying biotics dont work, they do and do fine but if you need to strip naked your enemies to launch a biotic attack like throw then it becomes a chore

Biotic powers already work on some protection while others do no - Reave, Warp are great against armor and barriers; Stasis will hold everything in place; Singularity drains all defenses and holds enemies doing so. Pull, Throw, SW, Dominate and Slam only work on health. 4 work against defenses, 5 do not - not such a bad compromise imo.

If you have a better idea to ensure some sort of balance between biotic powers, please share. The way protection affect the other classes is irrelevant; the thing which matters most is to keep a class who has multiple powers available for different enemies / situation and not allowing one power to reduce all the others to junk.

yes, debuffs work like debuffs! but, i dont consider using debuffs as "playing an adept." really, is this the argument your trying to have: "warp and reave work on protections so biotics arent hindered by enemy protections."

am i wrong when i say singularity is the worst bonus power, sidearms are the worst weapons, enemy protections hinder the adept the most.

theres TONS of ideas BOZO! you really have never seen an idea how enemy protections could be improved? are your blinders that blinding?

[tjzsf]

IMO it ought to be:
Biotic barriers reduce biotics
Armor reduces tech
Shields reduce ammo powers (or just regen in addition to health like in ME1).
Nothing should cause immunity, only reduce the effects.

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...


Soldier: has to switch weapons (only a couple weapons can be used to one-shot-freeze enemies); activate ARush (duration + cooldown = ~5 seconds before power become available again); aim and shoot every enemy (~1 second per enemy); switch weapons again; shoot to kill every enemy one at a time.

And? The point was that ammo powers are reliable as biotics at crowdcontrol,what was proven by the vids.No one plays the adept for killing speed anyway.

[tonnactus]

MELTOR13 wrote...


If pull worked on protected enemies, but the duration was shortened or the cooldown was lengthened, then everyone would just come complain about how 'Pull doesn't last long enough' or 'Pull's cooldown is too long!'

I heavy pull works this way,it would be at least better then in the current game,where everyone with a braincell take pull field instead of heavy pull.

Bozorgmehr still dont answered the question why anyone in Mass Effect 2 should choose heavy pull instead of the area version.

If this isnt a serious problem in game design,then what else should be it???

The same is true with choosing between throw and heavy throw.I am quite sure not many people choose heavy throw instead of throw field...

Modifié par tonnactus, 28 mai 2011 - 08:04 .

[tonnactus]

Dave666 wrote...


My point is that Charge is the core element to Vangard play, without Charge they're nothing more than a gimped Adept with a Shotgun.  Charge is vital and yet Protections do absolutely nothing to hinder this.  For Adepts using Biotic abilities is the core element and yet Protections stop most of them.  A Soldier's core element is gun use, what do protections to to hinder them?  The Infiltrators core element is sniping (yes, they can use other guns, but their passive gives slowdown with Sniper Rifles), what do protections do to hinder sniping?  Sentinels are designed to deal with any protection, so I'll happilly pass on them.  Engineers only really suffer with Barriers, everything else they can deal with but they do feel the effects of protections.

Engineers not only suffer with barriers.Geth hunter also ignore the combat drone completly.

Every class needs to have a weakness.

Infiltrators-->could be decloaked by enemy engineers.

Soldiers--> Adrenaline rush could be disrupted by warp.

Just ideas.

[Bozorgmehr]

CajNatalie wrote...
Uh, Boz, when you listed anti-defense biotics, you were including bonus powers in there. You can't put all those in to one adept... at most you'll have Singularity, Warp, & a bonus. But usually just Sing/Warp.
Your point seemed little weakened because of that, I'm afraid.

Topic is about protection, it's not limited to Adepts only; it's also ridiculous to claim any class is 'weak' when faced with any type of defenses. Soldiers and Vanguards have nothing to strip defenses; Infiltrators can only strip armor; Engineers cannot remove barriers > does that make those classes weak in any way?

You have Shep's powers and weapons and two squadies to help with stuff Shep lacks; there is no difference whatsoever between classes regarding defenses, only different ways how to deal with defenses.

Good to hear there is some love for Shockwave

Dave666 wrote...
And why do we Crowd Control again? To give us breathing room before we kill them. For every class the ultimate aim is to kill the enemy.

iOnlySignIn wrote...
Some of us (most of the people whose video I just added links to in my previous post, and certainly Mr Boz) do Crowd Control simply for fun, you know. Watch those videos and you'll see. :-) I sometimes prefer to toy with the enemies instead of killing them outright.

CC is not just for fun (though it is); it's also highly effective. Fighting 4 enemies and CC ing 2 leaves only 2 you have to worry about. Killing enemies one at a time isn't better than fighting multiple enemies simultaneously using CC. I've also explained that OSOKs have NOTHING to do with powers; it's about weapons - they make the difference. The biggest flaw in ME2 design is the lousy starting weapons caster get at the start of the game; an Adept, Engineer or Sentinel starting with a shotgun, sniper-, or assault rifle isn't weaker than one of the combat classes; without decent weaponry they are lacking a little. This will be fixed in ME3 where anyone can use every weapon.

If you want to get an idea how weapons affect classes (early on); check Huckebein's www.youtube.com/user/Gun0fDis

If you want to get an idea how CC can make you an insane killing machine check www.youtube.com/watch ; this kind of gameplay is faster than OSOK ing with the Widow. Sniping Soldiers and Infiltrators look weak compared to an aggressive Engineer (or Sentinel/Adept); even Vanguards will have to give everything they've got to keep up with the killing speed.

To play ME2 at its best, you need to use powers and weapons in tandem - this is true for all classes. Powers are pretty evenly matched, weapons are not, that's the only real difference.

[Bozorgmehr]

tonnactus wrote...

And? The point was that ammo powers are reliable as biotics at crowdcontrol,what was proven by the vids. No one plays the adept for killing speed anyway.

The point wasn't about Soldiers not having any CC abilities at all, they have - the point was that those CC abilities are complete crap compared to the Adept's CC abilities. What does killing speed has to do with anything?

You claimed Soldier are great at CC; I claimed they are very poor at CC compared to Adepts. The vid you posted supports my claim, not yours.

tonnactus wrote...

I heavy pull works this way,it would be at least better then in the current game,where everyone with a braincell take pull field instead of heavy pull.

Bozorgmehr still dont answered the question why anyone in Mass Effect 2 should choose heavy pull instead of the area version.

If this isnt a serious problem in game design,then what else should be it???

The problem with Pull has NOTHING to do with protection; Heavy Pull is bugged - half the time its duration is shorter than Pull Field. Also 9 vs 12 seconds duration is minor (even if it did work the way it should) - changing duration into 6 (Field) vs 12 (Heavy) is enough to set them apart.

The thing you fail to understand is that the whole combat / power system is a delicate and complex structure; changing one (small) thing can result in the whole place crashing down. I already explained what Heavy Pull works through defenses does to the system (it breaks it). Singularity becomes redundant; to compensate you suggested to increase Pull's cooldown. CD must be higher than Sing to keep that power useful, so let's put it on a 6 seconds cooldown instead. That doesn't help, in fact it gimps the Adept doing so. Enemies will be without defenses longer than with defenses (normal Pull = better overall CC); you can Pull (the ME2 version) two enemies in 6 seconds when using weapons or squadmates = better CC (than pulling only one); the increased cooldown will put more focus on gunplay (I believe that's not something you'd like). In short, such a system solves nothing, instead is only reduce Pull's usefulness.

[CajNatalie]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

If you want to get an idea how CC can make you an insane killing machine check www.youtube.com/watch ; this kind of gameplay is faster than OSOK ing with the Widow. Sniping Soldiers and Infiltrators look weak compared to an aggressive Engineer (or Sentinel/Adept); even Vanguards will have to give everything they've got to keep up with the killing speed.

One thing screams at me from that vid.

Engineer + Claymore requires Hax. That video is flawed as an example.

Sorry if I'm only picking out certain parts of posts in this thread. I'm shifting around on the fence overall so I have no real place in arguing one side or the other except for the occasional moment when I try to yell balance at someone.
Anyway, your argument about how a heavy pull/throw can't be balanced by longer cooldowns seems to make sense... I can see how it may not be so simple to balance things afterall. Hopefully BW will figure something out that works better the way things are right now... alternatively... maybe with the way ME3 will work combat-wise, I'm open to surprises (fixes that wouldn't work in ME2, but somehow fit perfectly in ME3, are possible?).

Anyway...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Good to hear there is some love for Shockwave

...yes, I like Shockwave. You just have to know how to use it.
I also found it useful in Arrival at keeping pyros steady (while also stopping everyone else shooting at me for a moment) so I could de-shield them and pop their tanks. Saved my Shep's hide a few times by doing that.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 28 mai 2011 - 01:53 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

CajNatalie wrote...
Uh, Boz, when you listed anti-defense biotics, you were including bonus powers in there. You can't put all those in to one adept... at most you'll have Singularity, Warp, & a bonus. But usually just Sing/Warp.
Your point seemed little weakened because of that, I'm afraid.

Topic is about protection, it's not limited to Adepts only; it's also ridiculous to claim any class is 'weak' when faced with any type of defenses. Soldiers and Vanguards have nothing to strip defenses; Infiltrators can only strip armor; Engineers cannot remove barriers > does that make those classes weak in any way?

You have Shep's powers and weapons and two squadies to help with stuff Shep lacks; there is no difference whatsoever between classes regarding defenses, only different ways how to deal with defenses.

your such a strawman boz.

soldiers have ammo powers for every defensive type, and also have the frickin revenant. thats a bit better then relying on (creating your own!)warp bombs and the locust. ive never seen a vanguard player concerned about protections. a vanguard has no concerns for protections unless it stops playing as a vanguard. these are mainly adept players in here, wanting more out of their adepts.

there is a huge difference between classes and protections and it has everything to do with how we can deal with those protections!!! thats the exact point of this topic. to deny that this doesnt exist in ME2 is simply wrong.

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

You claimed Soldier are great at CC;

4 enemies,frozen for 7 seconds is definetly decent.More crowd control isnt needed.
You also completly refuse to realize that the protection system completly gimp most squadmates with biotics even more then shepardt.Samara,the "biotic godess",could do absolutly nothing when a krogan or varren with "protections" charge her. And not forget that they have double cooldowns at least compared with shepardt to gimp them even further.

A soldier shepardt is better at crowd control then all biotic squadmates.

The thing you fail to understand is that the whole combat / power system is a delicate and complex structure; changing one (small) thing can result in the whole place crashing down. I already explained what Heavy Pull works through defenses does to the system (it breaks it). Singularity becomes redundant; to compensate you suggested to increase Pull's cooldown. CD must be higher than Sing to keep that power useful, so let's put it on a 6 seconds cooldown instead. That doesn't help, in fact it gimps the Adept doing so.

First,its a decision of the player to build a character in this way.An option.
For someone to keep enemies like ymirs at bay and would like to have more options then stasis alone for that.
But not even if the duration of heavy pull is going to be double as long as pull field i wouldnt take it. Because pull field allows to disable multiple enemies instantly negating any advantage pull field had.
Heavy pull needs a significant advantage for players to take it.

Modifié par tonnactus, 28 mai 2011 - 03:57 .

[ComputerEnthusiast]

If pull worked on protected enemies, but the duration was shortened or the cooldown was lengthened, then everyone would just come complain about how 'Pull doesn't last long enough' or 'Pull's cooldown is too long!'

Then make sure that the heavy pull effect's duration is equal to pull's cooldown

   

Boz wrote:

Computer Enthusiast wrote:
I hate this line. How long will you understand that the problem of adept is not about killing speed or Insanity is HARDER for Adept than Vanguard, Infiltrator, vv...., but the way you beat the game via Adept. People have many ways to finish the game, do these ways come to satisfaction??? You can try to play Solder and take Stasis as bonus power, and clean the level very fast, but does it feel right??
    Let me make it clear. When i watched your vid about the Shockwave Adept (www.youtube.com/watch), while very amusing, still AWKWARD in term of gameplay. It is just like after trying shooting enemy's defense down (you always end up shooting defense since defense-stripping power not available all the time), you use cyro blast on your single target, and then try to use concussive shot to shatter frozen enemy. The result is fun to watch, but THE EFFORT IS NOT, you just have wasted the two powers on just SINGLE enemy and HOPE target will be shattered, and one power has terrible cooldown (concussive shot - 12 secs), and there are still DOZEN of guys shooting at you.
    Shockwave in your vid is completely a finisher, no more.

A lot is personal preference, I think it's a good thing you can play the game in so many different ways - which way is the funniest is up to the player. Some like to kill fast, others like to play with enemies first. Some like to shotgun enemies in the face, others prefer sniping at range. I can't tell you which way feels right - that's up to you

I don't understand what you believe awkward there; it's a matter of teamwork. The main thing about that vid was to show Shockwave - which is considered utterly worthless on Insanity (including me, before giving it a try) - can be pretty effective and fun to watch

Tell me what effectiveness you are talking about. If it's just fun to watch, then i dont buy it. I told you it is AWKWARD because you tried to demonstrate the usefulness of shockwave when most enemies around you were disabled or didn't shoot at you. At that time, it doesnt matter what your method is. You could use area concussive shot on rag-dolled enemies and enemies would fly higher, or you could slam to make sure enemies bounce harder.

Boz wrote:
Enemies don't do the fire-dance all the time, in fact they ignore it more often than not - Inferno ammo has no panic effect against a lot of enemies (Krogan, Varren, Klixen, husks, and all synthetics) - biotics always take out enemies = much better. Biotic CC effects also last 2-5 times longer.

No, i found it pretty useful for my engineer on collector missions without the use of biotics. Just use SMG, and they will fire-dance, which means that you can kill them a lot quicker and suffer less attacks.

Modifié par ComputerEnthusiast, 28 mai 2011 - 04:00 .

[JayhartRIC]

Dave666 wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

And why do we Crowd Control again?  To give us breathing room before we kill them.  For every class the ultimate aim is to kill the enemy.

*Edit* In regards to what you said about protections stopping an outright one shot kill with the Widow, its true, but it leaves the enemy so close to death that its not that much of a hindrance really, is it?

Some of us (most of the people whose video I just added links to in my previous post, and certainly Mr Boz) do Crowd Control simply for fun, you know. Watch those videos and you'll see. :-) I sometimes prefer to toy with the enemies instead of killing them outright. But Widow headshots are satisfying too, in a different way.

Like Boz pointed out in an earlier post, an enemy with 1 HP can easily kill you within a split second. Not 1S1K Eclipse Vanguards often mean you get one extra Scimitar/Claymore blast to the face that will very likely kill you.

All 3 of those CC Infiltrator builds (Cryo, Dominate/Hack, Neural Shock) play similar to Adept. In fact all the CC builds play similar to each other in terms of tactics. Sometimes players play this way by choice, not because they are forced to. ME2's gameplay design received so much kudos because it provided variety and re-playability. If the ultimate goal of every class and every build is simply to kill with the best gun you have, then it would have been no different from COD.

Question.  Would you say it was fair if in order for the Infiltrator to get OSOK's they had to first completely strip all protections?

Infiltrators do get affected by protections. With full protection, it usually isn't a OSOK.  So you have to either shoot another of your sniper rounds or switch weapons, hoping the enemy isn't back in cover.  Sometimes you may not get another shot on that enemy until their shields regen.  That's why a lot of the people complain about the ammo.  People who try to use the Widow all game complain when they have to pull out another weapon.  

[tonnactus]

JayhartRIC wrote...

Infiltrators do get affected by protections. With full protection, it usually isn't a OSOK.

??
http://www.youtube.c...u/2/_nDA22JZV1Y

This isnt a concern with the widow.

[Tony Gunslinger]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
soldiers have ammo powers for every defensive type,

They have nothing against barriers except concussive shot.

and also have the frickin revenant. thats a bit better then relying on (creating your own!)warp bombs and the locust.

- The Revenant is better at killing one enemy and damaging someone else nearby at the cost 5 seconds of cooldown.

- The locust and warp bomb can almost kill one enemy and knock down everything in 5-7 meters at the cost of 3.7 seconds of cooldown.

And also, what was that you said about killing speed?

The Spamming Troll Wrote...

wrong. FUN is the core thing that people are complaining about with classes. killing speed means nothing to me if im not playing that class to its fullest potential, which is its funnest. the complaints about the soldier killing faster then the adept are minumal.

I'm not even sure if you know what you're saying anymore.

ive never seen a vanguard player concerned about protections. a vanguard has no concerns for protections unless it stops playing as a vanguard. these are mainly adept players in here, wanting more out of their adepts.

Vanguards put themselves in harms way to get blank range damage bonus. I think that risk is a fair trade off.

there is a huge difference between classes and protections and it has everything to do with how we can deal with those protections!!! thats the exact point of this topic. to deny that this doesnt exist in ME2 is simply wrong.

It has everything to do with how you, the player, deal with protections. Not the classes or the powers.

Modifié par Tony Gunslinger, 28 mai 2011 - 04:33 .

[Dave666]

tonnactus wrote...

JayhartRIC wrote...

Infiltrators do get affected by protections. With full protection, it usually isn't a OSOK.

??
http://www.youtube.c...u/2/_nDA22JZV1Y

This isnt a concern with the widow.

Thank you.  For an Infiltrator Protections simply amount to:

Ooo Blue Bar! Power Wheel, Disruptor Ammo, Aim, Headshot.

Ooo Purple Bar! Power Wheel, Warp Ammo, Aim, Headshot.

Ooo Yellow Bar!  Power Wheel, AP Ammo (or Warp Ammo), Aim, Headshot.

This is not the way you should balance how protections hinder classes.

[ComputerEnthusiast]

The thing you fail to understand is that the whole combat / power system
is a delicate and complex structure; changing one (small) thing can
result in the whole place crashing down. I already explained what Heavy Pull works through defenses
does to the system (it breaks it). Singularity becomes redundant; to
compensate you suggested to increase Pull's cooldown. CD must be higher
than Sing to keep that power useful, so let's put it on a 6 seconds
cooldown instead. That doesn't help, in fact it gimps the Adept doing
so. Enemies will be without defenses longer than with defenses (normal
Pull = better overall CC); you can Pull (the ME2 version) two enemies in
6 seconds when using weapons or squadmates = better CC (than pulling
only one); the increased cooldown will put more focus on gunplay (I
believe that's not something you'd like). In short, such a system solves
nothing, instead is only reduce Pull's usefulness.

Singularity doesn't become redundant. If pull only penetrates one layer of defense, that means pull cannot do anything to blue sun commander, habinger while singularity still be able to lock them

[Tony Gunslinger]

Dave666 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

JayhartRIC wrote...

Infiltrators do get affected by protections. With full protection, it usually isn't a OSOK.

??
http://www.youtube.c...u/2/_nDA22JZV1Y

This isnt a concern with the widow.

Thank you.  For an Infiltrator Protections simply amount to:

Ooo Blue Bar! Power Wheel, Disruptor Ammo, Aim, Headshot.

Ooo Purple Bar! Power Wheel, Warp Ammo, Aim, Headshot.

Ooo Yellow Bar!  Power Wheel, AP Ammo (or Warp Ammo), Aim, Headshot.

This is not the way you should balance how protections hinder classes.

Only for one guy at a time. Did you remember the scenario about the 6 guys in one room? Which team will soak up more damage, Joe the Infiltrator or Tom the Adept?

[Dave666]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

JayhartRIC wrote...

Infiltrators do get affected by protections. With full protection, it usually isn't a OSOK.

??
http://www.youtube.c...u/2/_nDA22JZV1Y

This isnt a concern with the widow.

Thank you.  For an Infiltrator Protections simply amount to:

Ooo Blue Bar! Power Wheel, Disruptor Ammo, Aim, Headshot.

Ooo Purple Bar! Power Wheel, Warp Ammo, Aim, Headshot.

Ooo Yellow Bar!  Power Wheel, AP Ammo (or Warp Ammo), Aim, Headshot.

This is not the way you should balance how protections hinder classes.

Only for one guy at a time. Did you remember the scenario about the 6 guys in one room? Which team will soak up more damage, Joe the Infiltrator or Tom the Adept?

I'm gonna say the one without the ability to turn themselves invisible...

[Tony Gunslinger]

Dave666 wrote...

I'm gonna say the one without the ability to turn themselves invisible...

From here:

Tony Gunsligner wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

I understand what you're saying but we both know that its very situational at best.  If you can get enemies grouped close enough together to be caught in a warp explosion (which will usually just strip the protections of his friends and throw them apart), then well done, you've managed to kill one enemy.  You now need to use another pull on the two that survived (while hoping that they're still close enough to both get caught in a Pull's radius) and now you need to throw another warp for another explosion to finish them off.

You tell me, in that time could an Infiltrator have gotten three head stots?

Let's say there are 6 guys in a room.

Joe the Widow Infiltrator:
Turn 1: Snipe merc > 5 left shooting at you
Turn 2: Snipe merc > 4 left shooting at you
Turn 3: Snipe merc > 3 left shooting at you
Turn 4: Snipe merc > 2 left shooting at you
Turn 5: Snipe merc > 1 left shooting at you
Turn 6: Snipe merc > end of battle

After 6 turns, Joe’s team has been shot at 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 0 = 15 times

Tom the Adept:
Turn 1: Singularity on left side > 3 mercs get caught in it > 3 left shooting at you
Turn 2: shoot right side merc + Pull Field > 2 left shooting at you
Turn 3: Warp bomb right side, 1 dies while 2 left damaged and staggering > 0 left shooting at you
Turn 4: shoot left side mercs + Pull Field + Singularity on right side > 0 left shooting at you
Turn 5: Warp bomb left side, 3 dies > 0 left shooting at you
Turn 6: Warp bomb right side, 2 dies > end of battle

After 6 turns, Tom’s team has been shot at 3 + 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 5 times

The above is simplified, but the point is: Joe may kill faster, but his team is soaking up more damage than Tom. Joe's strategy is to outdamage the opponent in a game of attrition, while Tom's strategy is multitasking. Everytime you say that CCing is very situational, I can say that sniping is also very situational. Neither way is empirically 'better' because the game deliberately offers you multiple ways to suit whatever style of play you desire. You may believe killing speed trumps all, while I think crowd-controlling is the smarter and cooler way to play. You may be completely set in your mind that this game is just a shooter, while I completely believe that is game combines shooting and tactical turn-based fighting that's rendered in real time.

And the reason why I don’t think the casters need a OSOK ability is because Tom’s way of playing be done by all classes, but not all classes are as good at it than Tom. When Vanguards and Infiltrators switch weapons to use teamwork crowd-controlling tactics, they’re half-Engineers and half-Adepts relying on squadmates to do what Engineers and Adepts can already do by themselves.

[lazuli]

Dave666 wrote...

Thank you.  For an Infiltrator Protections simply amount to:

Ooo Blue Bar! Power Wheel, Disruptor Ammo, Aim, Headshot.

Ooo Purple Bar! Power Wheel, Warp Ammo, Aim, Headshot.

Ooo Yellow Bar!  Power Wheel, AP Ammo (or Warp Ammo), Aim, Headshot.

This is not the way you should balance how protections hinder classes.

But if you're bringing up bonus powers, then couldn't someone just counter with:

"For an Adept, protections simply amount to:

Ooo Blue Bar!  Power Wheel, Energy Drain.

Ooo Purple Bar!  Power Wheel, Warp.

Ooo Yellow Bar!  Power Wheel, Warp."