278 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Mesina2 wrote...

Da Mecca wrote...

Nice concept, but done wrong.

Shield do not make you immune to biotics.

Barriers should be the only thing that can negate biotics(Unless it's warp


Armor should resist damage not negate it.

What?

ME2 system is good.

If they did that then Biotic classes would be overpowered again.

And that was the reason they nerfed biotics in the first place, I might add.

They could improve it in ME3, though.

Barriers and shields aren't supposed to stop everything that hits them.

[Ahglock]

Da Mecca wrote...

Who cares if something is oveerpowered anyway?

It's not a multiplayer game.

I care at least.  There are levels of overpowered but if something is too overpowered it is no longer fun.

[Someone With Mass]

Da Mecca wrote...

Who cares if something is oveerpowered anyway?

It's not a multiplayer game.

BioWare cares, because overpowered classes makes people play them more and ignore the rest. Which is something I don't think they want, since people are paid to design those classes and it'd be pretty pointless to have them if there's a class that outmatches them.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 24 mai 2011 - 05:15 .

[aimlessgun]

Da Mecca wrote...

Who cares if something is oveerpowered anyway?

It's not a multiplayer game.

And who cares if biotics are slightly underpowered? Are people seriously arguing that its single player so its ok if biotics are OP, but its not OK if they are underpowered?

The current system has biotics being slightly underpowered. SLIGHTLY. Because you actually have to think a little instead of just pointing and shooting. It is actually more fun.

So current system: underpowered but more fun than ME1.

[The Spamming Troll]

Tamahome560 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

It was an interesting idea but the execution just left a sour taste in my mouth. As others have stated time and again insanity is much more difficult with caster classes than combat classes, which can still faceroll through the game with minimal effort (compared to the caster classes.) That alone is a problem, when one of your methods for raising difficulty involves dropping hammers on one half of the classes and giving more colorful health bars for the enemies of the other classes. IMO that is a sign the the system needs major retooling or needs to get the axe.

My ideal system would be something like this.

Barriers no longer exist ala ME2 style. They are now a power than any biotic can employ for a short period of time, functioning almost identically to barriers in ME1; with the exception that when barriers are up they nullify all biotic attacks with the exception of singularity.

Shields protect against bullets, pure and simple. They do no more and no less, someone shoots you, your shields take damage; enemy bites you, hits you, uses a tech/biotic power on you, uses a weapon that does not uses small fast moving projectiles, you directly take the damage.

Armor functions as amour should; no more of this armor absorbs a certain amount of damage then completely fails bs; the exception being armor pieces you can shoot off, which cease to provide protection when they are dislodged. Enemies would no longer have an armor bar, instead their health bar is either bright red (no armor) or orange (armor). Armor would continually absorb a percentage of the damage dealt to the health; so for example your foe has armor that nullifies 50% of damage dealt, your attack does 100 points of damage, 50 points of damage are dealt to said foe. The percentage of damage mitigated by armor is determined by the type of enemy, thugs if they have armor at all would have minimal damage protection, mercs would have slightly more, elite units would have significantly more and so on and so forth. When armor is removed the overall percentage of damage protection the armor affords is lost. Also armor no longer nullifies biotics so throw will still toss a person around whether they have armor equipped or not, the only difference is that now armor almost completely mitigates the damage done by the biotic attack and lessens the impact. So using throw as an example again lets say it does 60 points of damage, and tosses the target ten feet, with armor equipped the damage is reduced to 15 and the target will only be knocked back 3 feet. For powers that have a duration like pull the amount of time that a target is affected by the power is reduced when wearing armor; so for arguments sake lets say that pull lasts for 6 seconds normally, on a foe with armor the time spent floating without a care in the world is reduced to 2 seconds.

As an added bonus enemies that are equipped with armor gain limited health regeneration. The health bar is now represented in segments for enemies, enemies can regenerate partially damaged segments only, so once a segment of health is empty it cannot be regenerated, similar to the Resistance system or the Reach system. The more prestigious the enemy the fewer segments there are that make up their health bar, so for example elite enemies would have 2-4 segments, whereas mooks could have anywhere from 5-10; meaning that elite enemies will regenerate much more health if given the opportunity, making it imperative to get them down fast and permanently.

Atleast that would be the system I would like to see.

I agree with this system + a regenerative shields system.

The way protections work now is bad and need to be changed and I think Bioware has already seen complaints about this and are taking them into consideration.

why does barrier trump every ability besides singularity? whats makes barrier so special that it could completely stop my heavy throw? is it just because its a defensive ability, and throw is an offensive ability. id rather see barrier absorb some of the effects of biotics, but saying barrier is supreme to all biotics just doesnt really make sense to me.

also, is shepard going to be immune to biotics if he pops barrier too?

[The Spamming Troll]

Mesina2 wrote...

Da Mecca wrote...

Nice concept, but done wrong.

Shield do not make you immune to biotics.

Barriers should be the only thing that can negate biotics(Unless it's warp


Armor should resist damage not negate it.

What?

ME2 system is good.

If they did that then Biotic classes would be overpowered again.

are you saying soldiers and immunity werent OP too?

what did it take in ME1 to kill a soldier? 38 rocket blasts to the face er something like that???

come on dude, every class was OP. the only reason you remember the adept being OP is because it was the "funnest" type of being OP.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 24 mai 2011 - 05:37 .

[The Spamming Troll]

aimlessgun wrote...

Da Mecca wrote...

Who cares if something is oveerpowered anyway?

It's not a multiplayer game.

And who cares if biotics are slightly underpowered? Are people seriously arguing that its single player so its ok if biotics are OP, but its not OK if they are underpowered?

The current system has biotics being slightly underpowered. SLIGHTLY. Because you actually have to think a little instead of just pointing and shooting. It is actually more fun.

So current system: underpowered but more fun than ME1.

so reducing my abilites to warp and singularity is a slight difference? turning HEAVY THROW into a half second stagger is a slight differnece???

it doesnt take more thinking to play an adept on insanity, it takes less thinking. just throw singularity and follow with warp 3 seconds latter. the fundamentals of adepts on insanity doesn add any tactical levels, unless you consider a limitaion in the adept to be some sort of tactics.

[aimlessgun]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

Da Mecca wrote...

Who cares if something is oveerpowered anyway?

It's not a multiplayer game.

And who cares if biotics are slightly underpowered? Are people seriously arguing that its single player so its ok if biotics are OP, but its not OK if they are underpowered?

The current system has biotics being slightly underpowered. SLIGHTLY. Because you actually have to think a little instead of just pointing and shooting. It is actually more fun.

So current system: underpowered but more fun than ME1.

so reducing my abilites to warp and singularity is a slight difference? turning HEAVY THROW into a half second stagger is a slight differnece???

it doesnt take more thinking to play an adept on insanity, it takes less thinking. just throw singularity and follow with warp 3 seconds latter. the fundamentals of adepts on insanity doesn add any tactical levels, unless you consider a limitaion in the adept to be some sort of tactics.

It's a large difference in mechanics from ME1. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm referring to balance vs. other classes in ME2. I played the game twice. Then I played the game through 6 more times, with each class, on insanity. So I've played the game with every class, after learning everything about the game. And the Adept did not feel significantly less powerful than other classes, and was in fact extremely fun to play.

And yes, it does take more thinking than ME1. Because you have to strip protections. If you put even a little thought and effort into it, stripping protections is really really easy. But it is still more thinking than being a solider and dur dur point and shoot, or the ME1 adept who doesn't have to worry about protections at all.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 24 mai 2011 - 05:42 .

[The Spamming Troll]

how does stripping protections add tactics to an adept? regardless of what protections im facing, my options are still warp or singularity or using my gun. so whats there to think about?

[aimlessgun]

You have squadmates. You have to figure out which squadmates you want to bring and when/where to use their abilities.

You have to also choose which enemies to strip. Using which gun. What your tradeoff is of using Warp immediately to maybe strip the armor off a LOKI and then shoot it, or if you're better served shooting off the armor and then Pulling it.

It isn't rocket science but it isn't nothing. If you're seriously not thinking while playing an adept, I can understand why people think they're bad on Insanity. Because people are just bad at the game.

[The Spamming Troll]

i understand you can use warp before you use your gun or you can use your gun, then use warp. but your kidding yourself if you think something that limits your classes potential, like the adept and enemy protections, can in some way make that class more tactical.

its very simple gameplay for an adept. my weapon choices are the predator or the carnafax. my biotic choices are singularity or warp.

so, whats to think about.

[Trinity66]

I agree with all what The Spamming Troll said.
I don't even need squadmates in ME2. I fact, I don't remember when was the last time I opened power wheel and use squaddies powers. So, for me, ME1 was more tactical, since i had to stop for a bit, open power wheel, choose liara's singularity and wrex's wrap and BAM, finish them of with shot gun..
In ME2 you spend a lot of time behind cover and squaddies just love to take bullets and die often, unless you tell them to sit tight.
And like some others, I don't understand why armor blocks my pull/throw. So, let'0s say I'm playing vanguard and 85% of time I'm using charge, while in ME1 all powers was enjoyable and usefull.
Adept has crappy weapons, so give me the chance to use my damn biotics!
Also, pardon my english.

[Someone With Mass]

aimlessgun wrote...
And who cares if biotics are slightly underpowered? Are people seriously arguing that its single player so its ok if biotics are OP, but its not OK if they are underpowered?

The current system has biotics being slightly underpowered. SLIGHTLY. Because you actually have to think a little instead of just pointing and shooting. It is actually more fun.

So current system: underpowered but more fun than ME1.

Unless you're playing on harder difficulties. Then they're pretty much useless against everything.

[aimlessgun]

Someone With Mass wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...
And who cares if biotics are slightly underpowered? Are people seriously arguing that its single player so its ok if biotics are OP, but its not OK if they are underpowered?

The current system has biotics being slightly underpowered. SLIGHTLY. Because you actually have to think a little instead of just pointing and shooting. It is actually more fun.

So current system: underpowered but more fun than ME1.

Unless you're playing on harder difficulties. Then they're pretty much useless against everything.

If you'll read my posts above, you'll see how I only play this game on insanity. I played the game with every class on insanity, after playing through the game twice on insanity and getting used to the game. And the adept did not feel underpowered, and was very very fun.

[aimlessgun]

Trinity66 wrote...

I agree with all what The Spamming Troll said.
I don't even need squadmates in ME2. I fact, I don't remember when was the last time I opened power wheel and use squaddies powers. So, for me, ME1 was more tactical, since i had to stop for a bit, open power wheel, choose liara's singularity and wrex's wrap and BAM, finish them of with shot gun..
In ME2 you spend a lot of time behind cover and squaddies just love to take bullets and die often, unless you tell them to sit tight.
And like some others, I don't understand why armor blocks my pull/throw. So, let'0s say I'm playing vanguard and 85% of time I'm using charge, while in ME1 all powers was enjoyable and usefull.
Adept has crappy weapons, so give me the chance to use my damn biotics!
Also, pardon my english.

Do you think Adepts are underpowered in ME2? If you think they're underpowered in ME2, and you're not using squadpowers, there's your problem right there.

You can use your biotics. I used them constantly, all the time, 24/7. Just know how to play the game, and enemy protections are gone in an instant.

[Leonia]

For what it's worth, all this talk has convinced me to finish my adept on insanity.

I certainly use more than warp and pew pew (actually, I limit myself to only using abilities and no heavy weaponry, who needs guns when you have space magic?).

For anyone who thinks it is simply too easy on Insanity, good for you. I find it to be a good challenge. You don't have to spam warp over and over.

I don't fnd them under or overpowered, but then.. I don't find any of the classes to be either of those things. Squadmates do help a lot in maintaining the balance for every playthrough, if you know how to use them.

Modifié par leonia42, 24 mai 2011 - 06:27 .

[aimlessgun]

I certainly hope nobody plays the adept by just spamming Warp. That's a terrible idea and would definitely make you think the class is underpowered.

[CroGamer002]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Da Mecca wrote...

Nice concept, but done wrong.

Shield do not make you immune to biotics.

Barriers should be the only thing that can negate biotics(Unless it's warp


Armor should resist damage not negate it.

What?

ME2 system is good.

If they did that then Biotic classes would be overpowered again.

are you saying soldiers and immunity werent OP too?

what did it take in ME1 to kill a soldier? 38 rocket blasts to the face er something like that???

come on dude, every class was OP. the only reason you remember the adept being OP is because it was the "funnest" type of being OP.

I rarely used immunity since weapons we OP in ME1 which made that game very boring.

I hate stuff being OP, unless it's just a small portion of the game. Otherwise it's a bad game design. Game becomes too damn easy even on hardest difficulty.


Also I even hate Mattock in ME2. Very OP.

[Trinity66]

aimlessgun wrote...

Trinity66 wrote...

I agree with all what The Spamming Troll said.
I don't even need squadmates in ME2. I fact, I don't remember when was the last time I opened power wheel and use squaddies powers. So, for me, ME1 was more tactical, since i had to stop for a bit, open power wheel, choose liara's singularity and wrex's wrap and BAM, finish them of with shot gun..
In ME2 you spend a lot of time behind cover and squaddies just love to take bullets and die often, unless you tell them to sit tight.
And like some others, I don't understand why armor blocks my pull/throw. So, let'0s say I'm playing vanguard and 85% of time I'm using charge, while in ME1 all powers was enjoyable and usefull.
Adept has crappy weapons, so give me the chance to use my damn biotics!
Also, pardon my english.

Do you think Adepts are underpowered in ME2? If you think they're underpowered in ME2, and you're not using squadpowers, there's your problem right there.

You can use your biotics. I used them constantly, all the time, 24/7. Just know how to play the game, and enemy protections are gone in an instant.

I know i can use biotics. I didn't said adept are underpowred, it's just not that fun to play, like you're saying. Most biotic are useless until you strip of shield and armor. Even husks have armor and you have to running around battlefield and take down their shield, so you can throw them back. Again, I'm not saying i'ts too hard to take them down, but its not that fun, really. 

[Someone With Mass]

The Mattock makes up for the high damage with low ammo capacity, though.

[CroGamer002]

Da Mecca wrote...

Who cares if something is oveerpowered anyway?

It's not a multiplayer game.

In multiplayer that's annoying.

In singleplayer that's boring.

[aimlessgun]

Trinity66 wrote...
I know i can use biotics. I didn't said adept are underpowred, it's just not that fun to play, like you're saying. Most biotic are useless until you strip of shield and armor. Even husks have armor and you have to running around battlefield and take down their shield, so you can throw them back. Again, I'm not saying i'ts too hard to take them down, but its not that fun, really. 

Oh. Well I thought it was great fun :happy: Especially the Derelict Reaper, that was the most fun and easiest with an Adept. Drop down a Singularity and start spamming the Area Reaves and Incinerates! Husk blender

[Trinity66]

Yeah, that was easy, since they were so crowded.

[Bozorgmehr]

Removing protection = rendering 90% of all powers useless + renders all enemies useless + combat gone > game ruined

Anyone claiming "moan-moan, powers should always work, moan-moan" have no clue whatsoever what that will do to the game, thus are not to be taken serious.

Biotic (and other powers) are the MOST EFFECTIVE on Insanity, anyone too ignorant to deal protection (read unable to press one button, before the next), play on Casual coz that's the difficulty level which suits your abilities.

[Symji]

Meh, I think they should let enemy biotics use singularity on you in ME3, and add the ability to create a gravity altering field around yourself to the adept class, similar to what we see Samara, Liara and the asari spectre use, which could be used to counter it. And as far as Push goes, according to the scale in ME1, the maximum force generated by push is 1250 newtons which equates to a measley 281 pounds of force. By comparison, an professional boxer can punch with a force up to 1300 pounds, or 5782 newtons. This has always bothered me that with the given force being shown as so extreme, but the actual stated force being so incredibly weak, anyone in armor would just sit there and laugh.

Modifié par Symji, 24 mai 2011 - 07:07 .