278 réponses à ce sujet

[NackterGolfer]

quick math:

heavy pull: 12 seconds * 1.35 (Bastion extra 15% + Upgrade extra 20%) = 16.2 seconds
on an YMIR that will be: 16.2 seconds * 0.6 = 9.72 seconds

cooldown: 3 seconds * 0.55 (100% - Archon Visor 5%, Bastion 20%, Upgrade 20%) = 1.65 seconds.

10.08 seconds / 1.8 seconds = ~5.89 uses of Pull.

So actually you can have 5 YMIRs floating around.

Edit: I'll admit though I never read anything about power durations reduced on insanity. Somebody knows about this?
Edit: I fixed some numbers, I messed up a little.

In short: No bull****

Modifié par NackterGolfer, 25 mai 2011 - 10:59 .

[aimlessgun]

Bluko wrote...
Also Adept would be helpless on Insanity were it not for the ability of Singularity to hold enemies like Harbinger. Seriously if Singularity didn't have the ability to hold down regular trooper types so you could warp bomb them how would you hope to get through the game?

It's useful, especially for Harby, but hardly key to getting through the game. Frankly Pull was by far my most used power going through insanity as an Adept, because it was a OHKO in so many situations. As soon as you see enemies, Area Overload into Pull Field and you've instantly killed 1-2 of them, and only have to wait 1.8s to lay down more powers. In those 1.8s, spray down a shield with the Locust (the locust is absurdly good at shield stripping, very doable) and then One-shot another enemy with pull. 

Singularity is useful for the stagger vs Harby, but against most enemies you really need them bunched up in a group of at least 3 to be worth it. The actual effects are less useful than Pull, tossing enemies around in a way that's harder for me to shoot, CCing them for a shorter amount of time, and (usually) not able to kill them by throwing them off ledges. 

Modifié par aimlessgun, 25 mai 2011 - 10:59 .

[XyleJKH]

yes, agreed. But lets be honest I doubt it will change now. Thats too much rpg, lol

[tonnactus]

NackterGolfer wrote...

Edit: I'll admit though I never read anything about power durations reduced on insanity. Somebody knows about this?
Edit: I fixed some numbers, I messed up a little.

In short: No bull****

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/1143264
Power duration is reduced by 20 percent and the archon visor didnt work(ed) as far as i know.
I have yet to see a heavy mech floating around for even 3 seconds.
Didnt matter.It wouldnt be hard to simply reduce the power duration even more if an enemy have shields/armor intact.

Modifié par tonnactus, 25 mai 2011 - 11:23 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

Heavy Pull lifts YMIRs 5-6 roughly seconds on insanity with all the duration and cooldown modifers accounted for. Boz is correct, you can pull 3 all at once. I think can come close to freezing 3 YMIRs with Cryo Blast (maybe 2.5) with my Sentinel if there were no defenses, and that only has a 7 sec duration.

[lazuli]

The exact duration doesn't matter all that much, as with squadmates or without, you'd still be able to completely remove the most dangerous opponents from the battlefield, unless Bioware starts throwing groups of YMIR's at us in every mission.

[Dave666]

Personally I've never been an advocate of all Biotic abilities bypass all protections all the time.  What I've always asked for is that if you're going to nulify three classes abilities with protections then offer a similar impediment to the other three.

Thats why I suggested changing Shields so that they function the way they're supposed to.  Make guns all but useless against Shields 'cause thats what Shields are designed for.  Not to stop Biotic abilities.  If an enemy only has a Shield then they should be ripe for the picking for Biotics.  I can see an argument for Armour blocking abilities somewhat (though certainly not all abilities) because there were mods that could be added to Armour in ME:1 and I can see an argument for Barriers (if an enemy has a Barrier its 'cause they themselves are Biotic and could potentially counter you).  But Shields are designed to stop bullets, plain and simple.  I was in a discussion about this ages ago and someone tried to claim that its because technology had advanced, well to me Shield technology is far more likely to advance along stopping bullets than Biotics, since everyone and his dog as a gun, but there aren't many Biotics in comparison.

If it took almost your entire supply of ammo to strip a Shield or you could bring along someone who could strip it with Overload, which would you choose?

Similarly, if enemy Biotics were heavy hitters but Barriers were very vulnerable to gunfire then it keeps it balanced.
Think about Harbinger in ME:2, on his own he wasn't that much of a problem, sure if you were silly he could kill you, but if you took a little care you were fine.  What added some challenge was Harby's friends.  If you mis-timed a dodge on his singularity (the black ball) and got hit then his friends would cut you to ribbons.  So having enemy Biotics being quick to take down with gunfire but also being powerful would add challenge to encounters with them.

Modifié par Dave666, 26 mai 2011 - 02:29 .

[Seraphithan]

Haven't read the whole thread, so my ideas might have already been discussed or miss the current topic entierly , but this is how I think protections should work:

Gun damage has to go through all protection layers to affect health, some weapons like flamethrowers might ignore some layers.
Power damage always affects health, unless specific protection is available.
You die when your health is depleted, except for bigger creatures that might only have armor.

Health:
First layer, gets hit by a bullet last. Everything damages and affects you, unless you are immune (organics vs hacking), or have the right protection.

Armor:
Second layer, everyone has it but not everyone can/wants to wear the heaviest armor, think ME1 regarding who has what. Effective against high rof weapons but weak against single shot weapons. Negates/reduces biotic damage, but not biotic effects ie you can lift an armored enemy but warp wont do a lot of damage. Negates/reduces tech effects, but not tech damage. Armor protects your health against fire damage but is weak against it.

Biotic barriers:
Third layer, only biotics can have it. By default does not affect weapons. Negates/reduces biotic effects, but not biotic damage but protects your health against warp and is weak against it. Does not affect tech.

Shields/Kinetic barriers:
Fourth layer, gets hit by a bullet first, everyone has it, base strength the same for everyone. Effective against slow firing weapons but weak against weapons with a high rate of fire. Does not affect biotics or tech, but protects a synthetics health against overload and is weak against it.

Some of my reasoning:

Why does armor protect against biotic damage? Unless it works on a cellular level, in which case a biotic warps your brain and is done with it, the damage can be reduced, even nullified, by increasing the force requiered to break you. Concussive shot and physical damage would fall into the same category I think, it takes you of your feet but your armor protects you against most of the damage.

Why do biotics have regular shields? Using biotics is extremly high maintenance, constantly straining yourself to do something a piece of tech can do just as good is not a sound strategy. Using the barrier in short bursts during critical moments on the other hand is. In other words only an active barrier skill would protect you against guns.

What do you think?

Modifié par Seraphithan, 26 mai 2011 - 02:19 .

[The Spamming Troll]

bozo,
when your playing your adept in ME3 would you like to use your super evolved version of limb-busting-throw, or maybe the evolved version of slam actually slams the enemy into the most nearby enemy and causes totally awesome blood splatter, or do you just want to setup warpbombs with singularity, again?

i mean maybe biotcs will have the abilty to crush skulls and leave red mist clouds floating through the air, or throw can tar off limbs....

.....but nope, you just want to warp bomb your singularities.

WWEEEEEEEEEE!!!
warpbombs.
.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 26 mai 2011 - 02:35 .

[Parah_Salin]

I like the idea of having shields be primarily for bullets and fire/ice, biotic barriers as not interfering with pure tech (like overload, AI hacking, etc...though these powers wouldn't be useful on most enemies with barriers) and having protection against all other forms of damage, but not as much as other types of protection. Armor would be split between bullets (depending on the gun...) and physics damage/effects (AKA the damage potential from all non-warp biotic powers). Also shields/barriers should regenerate.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Dave666 wrote...

Make guns all but useless against Shields 'cause thats what Shields are designed for.  Not to stop Biotic abilities.  If an enemy only has a Shield then they should be ripe for the picking for Biotics.  I can see an argument for Armour blocking abilities somewhat (though certainly not all abilities) because there were mods that could be added to Armour in ME:1 and I can see an argument for Barriers (if an enemy has a Barrier its 'cause they themselves are Biotic and could potentially counter you).  But Shields are designed to stop bullets, plain and simple.  I was in a discussion about this ages ago and someone tried to claim that its because technology had advanced, well to me Shield technology is far more likely to advance along stopping bullets than Biotics, since everyone and his dog as a gun, but there aren't many Biotics in comparison.

If it took almost your entire supply of ammo to strip a Shield or you could bring along someone who could strip it with Overload, which would you choose?

Well, the way protections vs. powers work in ME2 is this:

- Tech counters tech
- Biotics counter biotics
- Combat is straight-up brute force

Which makes sense to me. The only person who can easily disable shields should be a tech specialist, not a biotic or a combat specialist. Likewise, tech specialists should be the weakest person to disable barriers, and only a biotic can easily handle another biotic in the way only a Spectre can take out another Spectre. Armor is a material, which means it’s fair game for anyone. Notice that all classes comes with abilities or arsenal to deal with armor.

Combat is guns. Some guns deal more damage to shields/barriers than armor, and vice versa. All classes have guns. Combat is skill-based; how much damage you’re dealing/how much defenses you’re stripping depends on how good you are at shooting/dodging bullets/flanking. Combat, more importantly, is the opposite of crowd control. Pure combat is about killing speed, not locking down groups of enemies. It’s only when you apply ammo powers with CC properties that you are changing the role of your gun from killing to locking down multiple targets at once.

And this I think is the core of the problem: some people don't understand powers. They are used for crowd control. Guns are for damage. If you think you can kill really fast before they kill you, then that's great. But this game is not a shooter. You can believe it's a shooter and play like it, but you're engaging only half the gameplay. If you know how powers work and integrate them into your gunplay, you'll be off, you won't be complaining about crappy squad AI that much and you'll be more mobile and less stressed out than before.

Modifié par Tony Gunslinger, 26 mai 2011 - 03:13 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

bozo,
when your playing your adept in ME3 would you like to use your super evolved version of limb-busting-throw, or maybe the evolved version of slam actually slams the enemy into the most nearby enemy and causes totally awesome blood splatter, or do you just want to setup warpbombs with singularity, again?

i mean maybe biotcs will have the abilty to crush skulls and leave red mist clouds floating through the air, or throw can tar off limbs....

.....but nope, you just want to warp bomb your singularities.

WWEEEEEEEEEE!!!
warpbombs.
.

Don't worry TST, because btiotics are the most effective powers against Reapers' minions, I'm looking forward to pwn them in ME3

Modifié par Tony Gunslinger, 26 mai 2011 - 03:04 .

[The Spamming Troll]

im actually looking for biotics to be the most effective powers against reapers.

not their minions.

i want to bring down starcruisers, maybe.......

[ComputerEnthusiast]

The reason "enemies are as good as dead once their protections are gone" is NOT becuase their HP is easy to shoot down. It's because they can be dealt with using your biotics. They still have lots of HP, but biotics can take them out of the fight instantly.

In ME1, there weren't a lot of opportunities to kill people by throwing them off stuff. In ME2, almost every single environment has such opportunities. The level designers did a great job of incorporating this into the game.

I disagree. There are many places in a level you cannot push/pull enemy off map. Even in open map such as Tuchanka, enemy should be close to map boundary to make throw/pull/pull+throw work because the force is much reduced in Insanity.

Boz wrote:
How long it takes depends on the mission. Adepts can run through the first part of the Suicide Mission (open the valves - Insanity) in a little over 3 minutes. Without using weapons, it will be around 5 minutes (possibly less) > using weapons and powers, instead of powers only, nets a ~40% increase in speed. Not much imo, which means powers do play an important role in combat performance (like they should).

I aggree, some levels, or some enemies favor particular class.
For example, the fight against YMIR is much easier (if not trivial) for Engineer than Adept or Sentinel since you can lock it until it explodes.
For someone who said that (s)he could use biotics without spamming wrap explosion, i will tell you that you are limping yourself because wrap explosion:
- make enemy fly just like shockwave or throw
- the effective radius is much larger than shockwave, throw, pull.
- cause great damage to enemies, as opposed to throw, shockwave.
- you dont have to SHOOT rag-dolled enemy
And for someone who said that (s)he doesnt use singularity when denfense stripping power is not available. Singularity can:
- lock one enemy so you can take less damage when out of cover
- drain enemy' shield
- prepare to set up wrap explosion, with a lot benefit listed above.

Sure, there are certain places where you can throw enemy off map (Collector ship, Collector base...), but they are not much present in entire game, making throw, shockwave situational.

I played both Adept and Engineer, and i can tell you that engineer is the weakest class of all. Most major missions (particularly collector missions), enemies are organic, so you have to use combat drone exclusively. But the drone itseft cause little damage, and only distract single enemy, so under heavy fight, you spend a lot of time taking cover to wait for shield regen (which i hate most) or use medigel. The engineer is only great when they can use AI hacking on sythetic enemies.
On the other hand, with the help of wrap explosion, most fights a trivial for adept, if not that easy.

[Dave666]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Make guns all but useless against Shields 'cause thats what Shields are designed for.  Not to stop Biotic abilities.  If an enemy only has a Shield then they should be ripe for the picking for Biotics.  I can see an argument for Armour blocking abilities somewhat (though certainly not all abilities) because there were mods that could be added to Armour in ME:1 and I can see an argument for Barriers (if an enemy has a Barrier its 'cause they themselves are Biotic and could potentially counter you).  But Shields are designed to stop bullets, plain and simple.  I was in a discussion about this ages ago and someone tried to claim that its because technology had advanced, well to me Shield technology is far more likely to advance along stopping bullets than Biotics, since everyone and his dog as a gun, but there aren't many Biotics in comparison.

If it took almost your entire supply of ammo to strip a Shield or you could bring along someone who could strip it with Overload, which would you choose?

Well, the way protections vs. powers work in ME2 is this:

- Tech counters tech
- Biotics counter biotics
- Combat is straight-up brute force

Which makes sense to me. The only person who can easily disable shields should be a tech specialist, not a biotic or a combat specialist. Likewise, tech specialists should be the weakest person to disable barriers, and only a biotic can easily handle another biotic in the way only a Spectre can take out another Spectre. Armor is a material, which means it’s fair game for anyone. Notice that all classes comes with abilities or arsenal to deal with armor.

Combat is guns. Some guns deal more damage to shields/barriers than armor, and vice versa. All classes have guns. Combat is skill-based; how much damage you’re dealing/how much defenses you’re stripping depends on how good you are at shooting/dodging bullets/flanking. Combat, more importantly, is the opposite of crowd control. Pure combat is about killing speed, not locking down groups of enemies. It’s only when you apply ammo powers with CC properties that you are changing the role of your gun from killing to locking down multiple targets at once.

And this I think is the core of the problem: some people don't understand powers. They are used for crowd control. Guns are for damage. If you think you can kill really fast before they kill you, then that's great. But this game is not a shooter. You can believe it's a shooter and play like it, but you're engaging only half the gameplay. If you know how powers work and integrate them into your gunplay, you'll be off, you won't be complaining about crappy squad AI that much and you'll be more mobile and less stressed out than before.

Erm...whats that got to do with what you quoted?

[Tony Gunslinger]

Dave666 wrote...

Erm...whats that got to do with what you quoted?

If you agree with what I said, would making guns weaker against shields make any sense? Combat is a neutral 'power', anyone can use it. To make them even less effective only make tech powers more powerful without reason, and you're also effectively making the shields vs. health ratio 2:1 when using guns, which is the opposite of the whole point of choosing to use SMGs vs. pistols vs. SRs vs. SGs.

BTW, I don't think shields stop just bullets. They're kinetic barriers. Bullets deal kinetic force, throwing someone is a kinetic force.

Protections are generated by either tech (shields), biotics (barrier), or material (armor), and they are designed to absorb kinetic impact. The fact that the majority of biotics are physics-based, these protections will absorb them. When you’re shooting your bullets at a person with shields, they do not stagger because the kinetic forces and its damage are absorbed into the protection layer. But apply a big enough force (by heavy weapon, a biotic mass effect field, a shot to a weakpoint such as the head) should affect the enemy to the point that they are stunned and interrupt their actions.

I think when some people think of a power like throw, they commonly assume that it’s like throwing a bus at a target, but the fact is, we don’t know exactly how one can apply ‘Mass Effect’ to a target to make them have less mass and then hurl them like a feather. But what we do know is that protections absorb kinetic impact, and if you want to delve into lore, ME armors have things such as kinetic exoskeleton padding to counter direct mass effect fields around them, as you've sorta mentioned. So the fact that protections (regardless if their tech- biotic- or material-based) cancels out all but a stagger on the enemy isn’t exactly an invalid one.

Modifié par Tony Gunslinger, 26 mai 2011 - 03:46 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

ComputerEnthusiast wrote...
I played both Adept and Engineer, and i can tell you that engineer is the weakest class of all. Most major missions (particularly collector missions), enemies are organic, so you have to use combat drone exclusively. But the drone itseft cause little damage, and only distract single enemy, so under heavy fight, you spend a lot of time taking cover to wait for shield regen (which i hate most) or use medigel. The engineer is only great when they can use AI hacking on sythetic enemies.
On the other hand, with the help of wrap explosion, most fights a trivial for adept, if not that easy.

Here's what I think about Tech vs. Biotics:

Tech powers = Crowd Control

- Compared with biotics, tech powers deal less damage
- Tech powers’s damage is a fixed amount
- Tech power’s duration effects are predictable (enemies will firedance 3 seconds, Cryoblast freezes 5-7 seconds, Overload overheats weapons and synthetics in a set time)
- Tech powers are self-contained powers that cannot be combined to create new effects (ie, frozen enemies do not take extra damage from incinerate)
- The main tech powers often have multiple effects (damage, plus CC properties), and the damage gets applied first. This means that if an enemy has 129 shields, my Level 1 Incinerate will destroy the shields and the poor bastard will start dancing. The same applies to Overload, Energy Drain. Flashbang is a half-tech power, but it behaves the same.


Biotics = Crowd Chaos

- Compared with tech powers, biotics deal the most potential damage
- Biotics’ damage is more unpredictable because it mostly relies physics and enviroment (ie, enemies can either receive negligable damage or insta-killed when they fly off the map)
- Biotics CC durations are also unpredictable because they are based on physics; a pulled enemy can be pulled so high that its ragdoll duration lasts longer than the pull field.
- Biotics can be combine with other powers to create new effects (warp bombs, frozen enemies receive double physics damage it seems)
- The main biotic powers by themselves only have one effect, and they are ‘all-or-nothing’ powers. This means that if an enemy has 1pt shields left, using Pull will destroy the shields but will not pull the enemy. The exception is Singularity as it has multiple effects. Reave may also behave like Incinerate/Overload as it has multiple effects, but I’m not sure at this point if the health-drain part activates after the damage part destroys the defense layer.

When you look at tech powers, they can be summed up as: less damage, less dynamic, but produces predictable results. Tech powers will kill enemies the slowest, their CC durations are shorter, but they are better for planning your moves ahead.

When you look at biotics, they can be summed up as: a gambler’s power set, able to deal a lot of damage under the right circumstances. They are harder to control, but their CC durations are long, they f*cks sh*t up much faster than tech.

IMO, I think Pull/Throw/Slam should act like tech powers more in that the damage part should be applied first, so that if it penetrates the defense layer, the CC effect then activates just like Incinerate/Overload do. This may get rid of the glitchiness that we often experience, and it would speed up the gameplay because we don't need to 'wait-and-see' what happens, and plan our moves in advance with more precision.

Modifié par Tony Gunslinger, 26 mai 2011 - 04:24 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Bluko wrote...

So what do you do all knowing-one? Spam Throw at enemies til they die even if they have Shields up? Or are you someone who abuses stuff like Stasis or just Reaves away instead of using Warp?

No, but I do feel like a one-eyed man in a world of blind people sometimes, when it comes to 'biotics are gimped on Insanity' nonsense. My apologies for being rude.

Why would you want to use Throw against shields? Have you heard of squadmates, bonus powers and weapons? Seriously, start any ME2 battle, pause the game whenever you want to, look around and you will spot enemies who've lost defenses, Throw the bastard (Pull him first for extra fun). Combat is not static, enemies will lose defenses very fast which means you can almost use powers such as Pull, Throw, Slam and Shockwave all day long. You have to look around first - what is so hard about that?

Reave is redundant, Adepts have Warp which I think is a lot better than Reave anyway. Stasis is bugged - can you explain what this has to do with Adepts? Both are bonus powers available to anyone. Are Vanguards with Reave or Stasis 'abusing' anything?

Okay true, the regular grunt enemies that have protections added to them on the higher difficulties do have more a bit more Health. (Though I don't know how you know it's a 2:1 ratio given there are no explicitly labeled numbers for such.) Although that certainly isn't true of more difficult foes. Surely Centurions have almost as much Shields as Health. I mean Scions only have Armor. And I'm pretty sure YMIR Mechs have way more Shields and Armor then Health.

OK, >90% of all enemies have 1:2 ratio. This is relative though, defenses and health have equal hitpoints, but since powers and weapons receive (massive) multipliers against defenses, and none against health, make it so. One Warp strip armor/barrier > two Warps needed to kill (down to health) enemy; 3 Mattock shots to strip shield > 5 shots to kill etc etc. Defenses go down very fast, killing requires more work. Adepts laugh at enemies who've lost defenses - whether enemies have defenses or health is close to irrelevant to combat classes, enemies remain dangerous til they're death. 

I'm not sure why this is a problem. So Biotics would be able to toss around the few enemies that have Shields like those with none. Doesn't seem unbalanced to me since Tech and Combat classes are much better suited to taking down Shields via Overload and Disruptor Ammo. Why are Biotics gimped at dealing with enemies with Shields? It makes the idea of Vanguard or Adept playing solo against a plethora of enemies with Shields way worse off in comparsion to the Tech and Combat classes.

How does Disruptor Ammo help stripping defenses? It's extra damage is neglectible, only CC effects (which only kick in with shields out of the way) are worth your while, but also redundant b/c Adepts can handle unprotected enemies just fine. Only Sentinel and Engineer can use Overload - again, what does this have to do with Adepts or biotics? If you want to toss enemies around you have to remove their shields first, is that really so hard to understand? Also explain why Overload and Disruptor Ammo are 'great', Overload is only effective against shields, but since shield make up only 1/3 of enemy HP and Overload doesn't inflict any damage against (organic) enemies who've lost defenses makes it a far less useful ability compared to Throw (which can be used twice due half the cooldown). Or to put it differently; Overload can one-shot shields vs 2 Throw that can one-shot enemies without shield. Overload does 1/3 of total damage; Throw 2/3 - which one is better?

Obviously using abilities on the constant basis, regardless of the class will let you complete the game faster. Though I'm going to say a Soldier can still probably plow through the game faster then an Adept.

The whole point of ME is to use powers and weapons combined. Soldiers are not faster than Adepts - except the Mattock-dilation-bug Soldiers; who are far worse compared to an Adept using either Reave or Stasis btw. Speed is also not important and depends more on skill and knowledge of the game than class. I don't think there are many players around who can beat ME2 (noticeably) faster than I can with my Adept, regardless which class they use.

What I'm trying to get at is while yes Biotics were quite overpowered in ME1, in ME2 Biotics are probably the weakest. In ME2 it's pretty easy to "pew pew pew" your way through opposition. in ME1 you literally could just spam powers to kill everything especially as a Biotic. Basically I don't feel the gameplay is properly balanced yet.
Hell even the Lead Designer has admitted they were a bit too harsh on Biotics. Didn't they even have to release some kind of patch for the game early on or something to address this?

Biotics weakest? Compared to what, combat powers, tech powers? Biotic powers are actually among the most effective powers in ME2 - can you name a couple non-biotic powers that are 'stronger'? I can't think of any - Ammo powers, CS, Grenades, Fortification, Overload, Incinerate and Cryo Blast are junk compared to biotic powers, AI Hacking is great though.

Christina never said biotics are weak, she said the Adept's signature power is a bit lacking compared to most other sig powers - which is true. Singularity isn't Charge, ARush, TA or Cloak, it's close to Combat Drones though. There is nothing wrong with the Adept class and/or biotic powers in general; they are great. Players who're unwilling or not capable of understanding ME2 simplistic protection system are the problem, not powers.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 26 mai 2011 - 09:18 .

[lolwut666]

I'm with you, Bozo. And I think that anyone who has seen you play would agree that the Adept is in no way gimped.

Folks just don't wanna learn how to play right and blame it on the class.

[tonnactus]

lolwut666 wrote...

I'm with you, Bozo. And I think that anyone who has seen you play would agree that the Adept is in no way gimped.

Gimped? No. Boring on insanity? Yes.(singularity,warp bomb,end/for stragglers after that,pull)

[lolwut666]

Using nothing but Warp bombs is a good way to get yourself killed. I found Throw to be a very good alternative to kill enemies in open areas, and much safer because of the shorter cooldown.

Frankly, I barely used Singularity, because I would have my squaddies use Reave/Overload/Incinerate to deal with enemies' defenses so I could use Pull right away. Singuarlity was mostly a lockdown power for enemies like Harbinger, Scions, etc.

[Bozorgmehr]

tonnactus wrote...

The duration of powers is reduced on insanity anyways,so even with stripped defenses a ymir(and any boss/subboss enemy) doesnt float around for 12 seconds(of course it wasnt more then 1-2 seconds anyway). In short: You wrote bull****.

No, I dismissed your gamebreaking proposal. Insanity has a 20% duration penalty and YMIRs only suffer 60% duration. Both are irrelevant. Throw has no duration, but you can take on 3 YMIRs without squad and without weapons if it worked through defenses. Knocking enemies down (Pull will have enemies hit the dust also when duration ends) will disable em for a couple seconds (to get back up). You can have 3 enemies down indefinitely; ready to suffer the elbow of death.

Oh, and (12*0.4) * 0.8 = 3.85 seconds duration (without falling-down-getting-up, passive, and cd reduction upgrade).

Didnt matter.It wouldnt be hard to simply reduce the power duration even more if an enemy have shields/armor intact.

Also a pointless proposal - duration is irrelevant due to the time it takes for the YMIR (and other enemies) to get back up. Pull with a 0.000000000001 seconds duration is enough to take on 2-3 YMIRs bare handed.

[Bozorgmehr]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Tony Gunslinger wrote...
- Compared with biotics, tech powers deal less damage

Say whaaaaaat?

No power deal as much damage against Armor as Incinerate, and no power deal as much damage against Shields/Synthetics as Overload/Energy Drain. The only thing Biotics does more damage than Tech against is Barrier, and that is the rarest form of protection/health.

IMHO Biotics is more about CC- all biotic powers except Warp/Reave are CC powers.

You may be talking about Warp Explosions, but (1) That's 2~3 powers instead of 1, you need to strip, setup, and bomb, so you can't compare its damage to 1 single Tech power; (2) I find Warp Explosions' CC stagger effect to be more valuable than its damage.

I'm with Tony on this one. Sure Incinerate does slightly more damage against armor, but one Heavy Singularity will strip all defenses including shields. There is no tech power that can even come close to warp bombs. Physics can be used to insta-kill. One well-aimed Throw can kill a Krogan, who can take 3 or more Incinerates before dying.

Tech powers are great against armor and shields, biotic powers are great agaist barrier, armor and most importantly health. Biotic powers are also better at CC.

[lolwut666]

I said it once, I said it twice, I said it thrice, and I said it many more times, and I will say it again: folks are too hung up on direct damage.

So what if Heavy Incinerate deals 210 dmg if Throw can insta-kill under the right circumstances? And what about Pull? An incinerated geth will still come at you, but a pulled geth will be hanging in the air, just waiting for you to tear it to bits with a gun, throw it or blow it up with Warp.

Modifié par lolwut666, 26 mai 2011 - 10:31 .