278 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave666]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

So dont use (shockwave, throw, etc) it on a charging krogan with armor......use a reliable "I know this will stop him in his tracks power"

Which is...what again?  Singularity?  Ok then replace Krogan with Scion or YMIR...

What does the Adept have that stops Scions and YMIRS again?  Or even the bloody Varren and Fenris Mechs?

[Someone With Mass]

If it has only a small probability of a slight bonus damage/penetration/whatever, I don't think a whole battle would hinge on it.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Dave666 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

So dont use (shockwave, throw, etc) it on a charging krogan with armor......use a reliable "I know this will stop him in his tracks power"

Which is...what again?  Singularity?  Ok then replace Krogan with Scion or YMIR...

What does the Adept have that stops Scions and YMIRS again?  Or even the bloody Varren and Fenris Mechs?

Scions dont charge really, you have singularity, warp, and squadmates..... also Stasis (IMO should be an adept only power but thats neither here nor there right now... granted it doesnt work on Scions

Maybe bioware can invent a new adept power who knows?

Here's an example

Biotic Master, Can use all powers through all protections for ............15 seconds everything on a 5 sec cooldown in that time period so you could drop 3 things, cooldown after 15 sec 30-40 seconds

obviously this is off the top of my head

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 26 mai 2011 - 03:14 .

[Cancer Puppet]

The only benefit armor should have against biotics is that it slightly reduces their effect cue to the fact that you're attacking a target with more mass. i.e., throw should only toss a heavy armored opponent half a far as an unarmored enemy. This was done in ME 1. Use lift on a mercenary, a krogan, and a collosus, and you'll see the difference. The momentum of the object was also taken into account. A rushing Krogan got stopped in it's tracks, but a krogan standing still hit the back wall.

That said, biotics in ME1 were overpowed, but the general physics were sound.

[Dave666]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

So dont use (shockwave, throw, etc) it on a charging krogan with armor......use a reliable "I know this will stop him in his tracks power"

Which is...what again?  Singularity?  Ok then replace Krogan with Scion or YMIR...

What does the Adept have that stops Scions and YMIRS again?  Or even the bloody Varren and Fenris Mechs?

Scions dont charge really, you have singularity, warp, and squadmates..... also Stasis (IMO should be an adept only power but thats neither here nor there right now... granted it doesnt work on Scions

Maybe bioware can invent a new adept power who knows?

Here's an example

Biotic Master, Can use all powers through all protections for ............15 seconds, cooldown 30-40 seconds

Granted what you used was merely to illustrate a point (and I agree with you up to a point), as long as I knew that when I use such an ability that it would always work then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

The simplest way to do it though is simply to have the heavy versions of some powers (like Throw) work through certain protections (NOT all protections though), however if that happened then the cooldown on Heavy Throw would need to be increased so that at the maximum level you could (barely) keep a single enemy locked down, but no more than one enemy.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Dave666 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

So dont use (shockwave, throw, etc) it on a charging krogan with armor......use a reliable "I know this will stop him in his tracks power"

Which is...what again?  Singularity?  Ok then replace Krogan with Scion or YMIR...

What does the Adept have that stops Scions and YMIRS again?  Or even the bloody Varren and Fenris Mechs?

Scions dont charge really, you have singularity, warp, and squadmates..... also Stasis (IMO should be an adept only power but thats neither here nor there right now... granted it doesnt work on Scions

Maybe bioware can invent a new adept power who knows?

Here's an example

Biotic Master, Can use all powers through all protections for ............15 seconds, cooldown 30-40 seconds

Granted what you used was merely to illustrate a point (and I agree with you up to a point), as long as I knew that when I use such an ability that it would always work then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

The simplest way to do it though is simply to have the heavy versions of some powers (like Throw) work through certain protections (NOT all protections though), however if that happened then the cooldown on Heavy Throw would need to be increased so that at the maximum level you could (barely) keep a single enemy locked down, but no more than one enemy.

True not a bad shout

[Aumata]

I am cool with the protection system as long as they ungimped my teammates. If Bioware do that, it would pretty much balance out the game for me. I hated the long cooldowns they gotten, along with the damage. The tech side of things, seems Bioware is going to add in more abilities, hopefully we get tech mines back, and damper. Also poison, should be brought back.

[Ahglock]

Dave666 wrote...


Granted what you used was merely to illustrate a point (and I agree with you up to a point), as long as I knew that when I use such an ability that it would always work then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

The simplest way to do it though is simply to have the heavy versions of some powers (like Throw) work through certain protections (NOT all protections though), however if that happened then the cooldown on Heavy Throw would need to be increased so that at the maximum level you could (barely) keep a single enemy locked down, but no more than one enemy.

The cooldown on the Claymore is 1.5 seconds why would it be so bad if heavy throws cooldown reamined at 1.6 seconds after reductions?  You are saying not on all targets after all.  Personally I kind of think biotics should effect a sort of health+defenses total and until a target is reduced to that point biotics don't work to well on them.  So the more powerful your throw the more of a HP+shield total it can effect.  Sometimes you might have to strip all thier defenses, sometimes 1/2, sometimes all their defenses+20% of their health it all depends on the target and how powerful your biotics are.  You would have to learn targets and estimate thier current total health in order to be effective.  

[Bozorgmehr]

I don't like putting chance into the mix - it should be clear what powers do to enemies. Having them work sometimes (or not) is very bad for gameplay. If I'd like to gamble, I'll go to the casino

It's like adding chance to weapons; you score a perfect headshot > ME2: "Sorry son, we're not counting this one - better luck next time."

@ Ahglock; Your idea looks good on paper, but I doubt it will 'work' in-game. The different layers make it clear which power does what; not knowing what's going to happen isn't something I'm looking forward to. I also don't think this would really make much of a difference compared to ME2's system; you still have powers which don't work (at their fullest effect) most of the time.

[Bozorgmehr]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

boz, you are clueless about the other side of the argument.

Which side exactly?

You can't hack YMIRs on Casual either, why do you think BW made it so? To annoy you, or because letting a YMIR clear a room for you isn't how ME is meant to be played?

[CajNatalie]

There's only one part of the game where you get to hack a full strength YMIR, and damn that thing is unstoppable against the enemy mooks coming at you.
Honestly, seeing how heavily advantageous that was I can't fully disagree at all with the limit on AI hacking... but it does seem a little weak at times on HC/Insanity I admit. So perhaps an evolution of AI hacking that applies to only one synthetic at a time could bypass no more than one layer of defense would be fine, similar to the suggestion to make heavy biotics actually worth taking. A YMIR comes with two layers, so it would be unhackable until you stripped the first layer. Then the fact its a YMIR (elite class enemies shorten power durations) would mean your hack duration is shorter.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 26 mai 2011 - 05:41 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

I don't like putting chance into the mix - it should be clear what powers do to enemies. Having them work sometimes (or not) is very bad for gameplay. If I'd like to gamble, I'll go to the casino

It's like adding chance to weapons; you score a perfect headshot > ME2: "Sorry son, we're not counting this one - better luck next time."

@ Ahglock; Your idea looks good on paper, but I doubt it will 'work' in-game. The different layers make it clear which power does what; not knowing what's going to happen isn't something I'm looking forward to. I also don't think this would really make much of a difference compared to ME2's system; you still have powers which don't work (at their fullest effect) most of the time.

But again powers are not like shooting weapons at all in ME2 (i.e I cant warp to the head for an additional 10% damage with my visor....so that analogy is not apt IMO). You know exactly what they would do, but it has the added potential of bypassing power (otherwise it would retain its original animation)....Currently ME2 powers do X...the proposition is X and %Y not the negation on X.....perhaps the Biotic put more umph into the one attack (role playing perspective.

again i'm not very tied to it, but i think the compartive analogy to shooting as an example is wrong.

The visual repitition of repeating something for the exact same thing is i think germaine to weapons, but not necessarily biotics (just my opinion, others will surely disagree)

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 26 mai 2011 - 06:00 .

[tonnactus]

ComputerEnthusiast wrote...

no AI hack is great because once you remove your synthetics's defense, you just sit there and watch our enemies kill themself

On critters.On "advanced" enemies like geth hunters sometimes absolutly nothing happens,and when it does,where is a huge delay,so effectivly they fight only like 3 seconds for you at all.
In Bozorgs on vid ymir sometimes even shoot at him despite the game told the player that the robot is hacked.

[tonnactus]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

If a Krogan with armor is charging you

Nothing to worry about even on the hardest difficulty.Lose shields and little health.

Krogans and enemy biotics were completly gimped in this "challenging" game.

Predictable,slow and dumb, as they will use shotguns even at long range.

Good combat should have some kind of enemy variety(the amount of powers enemies actually use).

Modifié par tonnactus, 26 mai 2011 - 06:28 .

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...


Awesome gameplay!

Yes,of course(not my vid):



Ymirs are really challenging enemies.

Modifié par tonnactus, 26 mai 2011 - 06:37 .

[Black Raptor]

Protection needs to be changed to make biotics useful on insanity or hardcore. As it stands, warp is the only non-utterly-useless biotic power and that's only because it is as close to a tech power that a biotic power can be.

Either that or buff biotics in some other way.

[Bozorgmehr]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

But again powers are not like shooting weapons at all in ME2 (i.e I cant warp to the head for an additional 10% damage with my visor....so that analogy is not apt IMO). You know exactly what they would do, but it has the added potential of bypassing power (otherwise it would retain its original animation)....Currently ME2 powers do X...the proposition is X and %Y not the negation on X.....perhaps the Biotic put more umph into the one attack (role playing perspective.

again i'm not very tied to it, but i think the compartive analogy to shooting as an example is wrong.

The visual repitition of repeating something for the exact same thing is i think germaine to weapons, but not necessarily biotics (just my opinion, others will surely disagree)

You can aim powers, but BW has chosen the system which allows catching enemies behind cover and/or around corners and controlling Pull & Throw's direction. You cannot have a system (without breaking the flow of gameplay - i.e. having to pause every time you use a power) that has both.

The main issue with your idea is unreliability. I don't mind getting killed if I screw up, I hate it when I die because the game fails. Charge's "Can't get lock" when the enemy is standing right in front of you without obstacles blocking the way - for example. You die because of a bug, not a mistake. Same thing happens with Slam, Pull, Throw, Singularity and Neural Shock, sometimes enemies simply resist or ignore their effects. Whenever I use a power, I need to know what it will do. If not, you cannot anticipate, which forces you to stay in cover waiting and watching (and hoping) a power 'works'.

tonnactus wrote...

On critters.On "advanced" enemies like geth hunters sometimes absolutly nothing happens,and when it does,where is a huge delay,so effectivly they fight only like 3 seconds for you at all.
In Bozorgs on vid ymir sometimes even shoot at him despite the game told the player that the robot is hacked.

AI Hacking always works and effect is instant (unlike Dominate which has an 'impact' before taking effect).

A YMIR firing a rocket has nothing to do with AI Hacking, it's an AI issue. To non-stop hack a YMIR you need to have perfect timing or shoot down shield before duration ends and hack it again. The moment effect ends, YMIR will re-target instantly. When it's going to use its machine gun you're safe, but if it's going to fire a rocket there is no stopping the firing protocol even though the YMIR is hacked (it cannot abort).

Easiest solution is to shoot off its rocket-firing arm before hacking it - improves its damage output also, the machine gun is devastating

Oh, and Improved AI Hacking will, without duration upgrade, without cooldown reduction upgrade, on Insanity, allow non-stop control; the duration equals AI Hacking's cooldown when used on YMIRs and/or Primes.

tonnactus wrote...

Yes,of course(not my vid):



Ymirs are really challenging enemies.

YMIRs are dumb enemies, which has nothing to do with protection. Playing hide and seek with one (unsupported) YMIR is totally different to engage multiple without cover, weapons, squadmates, only using Throw or Pull or whatever power.

The Shep in your video stands no chance whatsoever with cover removed; your Shep can easily beat a couple mechs to death without taking any damage at all.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 26 mai 2011 - 07:43 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

It's like youre not reading what I'm writing. When they introduce pin poinnt biotics then you can compare it, until then... It would at a minimum keep the standard current animations, and it would be silly to go out expecting to contain charging krogans etc using the throw with the expectation of 100% success rate. However, throw in a hybrid cooldown system and things could get alot more interesting, But I digress.

Do you have any ideas on how to improve biotics, i like them and think they are fund, but I think they could be even more fun without being ME1 OP (even though I think OP is fun as well at least with biotics)

[Bluko]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Why would you want to use Throw against shields? Have you heard of squadmates, bonus powers and weapons? Seriously, start any ME2 battle, pause the game whenever you want to, look around and you will spot enemies who've lost defenses, Throw the bastard (Pull him first for extra fun). Combat is not static, enemies will lose defenses very fast which means you can almost use powers such as Pull, Throw, Slam and Shockwave all day long. You have to look around first - what is so hard about that?

Sometimes, but Squadmates aren't that reliable for actually shooting enemies. Depends on the environment and the cover. This was part of the flaw to me playing as an Adept on Insanity since you rely quite heavily on your teammates taking down protections for you. At least with Shields anyways which seems to be the most common type of protection.

Really about the only thing squadmates are reliable for is their powers. The only real exception I can think of where a squadmate has proven rather deadly with a weapon is Legion with the Widow. 

My point with Biotics is if you're already shooting any enemy to take down their shields, why stop shooting?  True once you've expended a full clip they probably have a portion of their health missing as well. So quickly using Throw or Pull to buy you time to reload can work to your advantage. But then they're a moving the target. If you use Pull your squadmates might just kill them for you. Or they may land closer to you instead. If you use Throw however you might just end up actually prolonging the fight. I know you can angle Biotics like Throw, but  it's usefulness is heavily dependent on the environment.

From my experience it's better to just reload and then nail the enemy one last time once they pop up and finish them for good with your gun. True I could use Warp instead, though it's not that effective against Health to be a sure kill and it has a noticeable cooldown. What I'm getting at is if 3 Adepts were facing 3 let's say Centurions they'd be at a rather poor disadvantage. 3 Soldiers or 3 Engineers would not be however.

True enough Tech classes are somewhat gimped at dealing with Barriers, though Drones essentially serve the same purpose as Singularity on protected enemies and can do more damage. Also Incinerate seems to work rather well even against Barriers.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

OK, >90% of all enemies have 1:2 ratio. This is relative though, defenses and health have equal hitpoints, but since powers and weapons receive (massive) multipliers against defenses, and none against health, make it so. One Warp strip armor/barrier > two Warps needed to kill (down to health) enemy; 3 Mattock shots to strip shield > 5 shots to kill etc etc. Defenses go down very fast, killing requires more work. Adepts laugh at enemies who've lost defenses - whether enemies have defenses or health is close to irrelevant to combat classes, enemies remain dangerous til they're death.

I don't have the Mattock so I can't attest to it's abilities. The Avenger and Revenant are pretty powerful as it is. The Revenant with Incedinary Ammo kills everything fast regardless of Shields or Barriers or Armor.

Seriously the way ME2 works any sort of "fire" ability is going to be better then any Biotic. It immobolizes the enemy and causes them to take damage while still making them easy shooting targets. Can't say any Biotic ability has any effect like that really. Well Singularity does sort of but it's damage is pretty trivial in comparison. So yes I think it's fair to say that Soldiers and Tech classes are better off due to their ability to burn things. (Well maybe not Sentinel, but they're pretty close to invincible anyways.)

Bozorgmehr wrote...

How does Disruptor Ammo help stripping defenses? It's extra damage is neglectible, only CC effects (which only kick in with shields out of the way) are worth your while, but also redundant b/c Adepts can handle unprotected enemies just fine. Only Sentinel and Engineer can use Overload - again, what does this have to do with Adepts or biotics? If you want to toss enemies around you have to remove their shields first, is that really so hard to understand? Also explain why Overload and Disruptor Ammo are 'great'

Disruptor Ammo literally makes Shields nearly non-existent for the shooter. It also damages synthetic enemies. Overload takes out Shields, can stun synthetics, and at Rank 3 causes enemy weapons to overheat. Seems pretty useful to me. Might not do squat against armor (though Overloard also works on instant killing Pyros and messes with Mechs) so yeah. As a stripping power Overload is probably more usful then Warp, because frankly there aren't many enemies with Barriers. And Tech and Combat classes can easily strip Armor away anyways. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Biotics weakest? Compared to what, combat powers, tech powers? Biotic powers are actually among the most effective powers in ME2 - can you name a couple non-biotic powers that are 'stronger'? I can't think of any - Ammo powers, CS, Grenades, Fortification, Overload, Incinerate and Cryo Blast are junk compared to biotic powers, AI Hacking is great though.

Erm...

I dunno about you but seriously Inferno Ammo, Inferno Grenade, and Incinerate are all pretty damn effective against non-protected enemies. More so then Shockwave, Pull, or Throw I'd say. And they are at least as effective as Warp against Armor. They also have better radius effects as well.

Cyro Ammo is pretty useless though, except against Husks kind of. Cyro Blast is equally not very worthwhile. I'll agree to that.

Drone is far more useful then Singularity to me. Overload serves a several purposes besides removing Shields and is far more valuable the Warp.

Concussive Shot does good damage, staggers protected enemies, and does great damage against Barriers. It also essentially works the same as a weaker version of Throw.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Christina never said biotics are weak, she said the Adept's signature power is a bit lacking compared to most other sig powers - which is true. Singularity isn't Charge, ARush, TA or Cloak, it's close to Combat Drones though. There is nothing wrong with the Adept class and/or biotic powers in general; they are great. Players who're unwilling or not capable of understanding ME2 simplistic protection system are the problem, not powers.

Biotics have severe issues when it comes to dealing with heavily protected enemies. Especially if they are sporting Shields. I mean what the hell can Adept do against a YMIR mech? Use a Heavy Weapon is about the only sound solution. 

Against the standard canon fodder enemies, sure Biotics are good. Heck in some situations they are noticeably better off then the other classes. Especially on the normal difficulty. I'll admit in some situations the Adept is superior to say the Soldier. But when it comes down to a heavy duty fight with something like a Geth Colossus I'd say the Soldier is superior. Same goes for the YMIR Mechs which are rather prevalent.

So I'd say there's some balance issues to be sure.

Given that I don't see why it should be considered so repugnant to say allow Biotic abilities to bypass Shields. Just Shields, not Armor or Barriers. And then to up the ante a bit more for Combat and Tech classes put Shields on the majority of enemies of again. That's all I'm really after here. 

Or maybe just have abilities like Shockwave knockdown enemies with protections similar to the after-effect of Stasis. Might actually allow the Adept class to be something of Crowd control again. Makes sense for Vanguard too really. Or if Singularity actually did some real damage to protected enemies then things might be a different story.

Modifié par Bluko, 27 mai 2011 - 02:40 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Bluko wrote...

My point with Biotics is if you're already shooting any enemy to take down their shields, why stop shooting?  True once you've expended a full clip they probably have a portion of their health missing as well. So quickly using Throw or Pull to buy you time to reload can work to your advantage. But then they're a moving the target. If you use Pull your squadmates might just kill them for you. Or they may land closer to you instead. If you use Throw however you might just end up actually prolonging the fight. I know you can angle Biotics like Throw, but  it's usefulness is heavily dependent on the environment.

From my experience it's better to just reload and then nail the enemy one last time once they pop up and finish them for good with your gun. True I could use Warp instead, though it's not that effective against Health to be a sure kill and it has a noticeable cooldown. What I'm getting at is if 3 Adepts were facing 3 let's say Centurions they'd be at a rather poor disadvantage. 3 Soldiers or 3 Engineers would not be however.

Like I said before; defenses drop twice as fast compared to health. You have to keep shooting enemies 2 times longer to kill (compared to stripping only). Shooting also has no or very limited (and very unreliable) CC effects (ammo powers; staggers) - enemies will be shooting back most of the time. Taking them out with biotics removes them completely from the battle (and using Pull will double weapon and power damage - like 5 times more damaging than ammo powers). Using Pull first, is the same thing as shooting enemies in ARush or Cloak (+100% damage). 

It's simple really; CC ed enemies are harmless, enemies still standing will kill you. Biotic are the best powers
to disable em. An Adept can take on 4 Krogan head-on > the only thing that matters is their armor (i.e. 1/3 - 1/2 of total HP) > armor down, Throw Krogan to the ground > deal with the next one's armor. You can have 3-4 Krogan on the ground indefinitely, they cannot fight back and you can decide when and/or how you want to kill em. You cannot do anything like this with weapons and/or ammo powers.

Basically, Adepts only have to fight defenses, with defenses out of the way, they've won. You can easily CC 3-6 enemies (once their shields/armor/barriers are removed). There is no other class that can come close to the Adept's CC abilities. A Soldier who has removed defenses has only dealt with 1/3 of total HP.

Seriously the way ME2 works any sort of "fire" ability is going to be better then any Biotic. It immobolizes the enemy and causes them to take damage while still making them easy shooting targets. Can't say any Biotic ability has any effect like that really. Well Singularity does sort of but it's damage is pretty trivial in comparison. So yes I think it's fair to say that Soldiers and Tech classes are better off due to their ability to burn things. (Well maybe not Sentinel, but they're pretty close to invincible anyways.)

All I can say is that you don't know how to use biotic powers effectively - check my sig for more info if you're interested. The way I play Adept - trying to be fast, aggressive, and avoiding cover - biotic powers are responsible for >60% of the total amount of damage. Biotics can kill much faster than weapons can, if you use em right. And without their CC effects there is no chance to move around without cover.

Disruptor Ammo literally makes Shields nearly non-existent for the shooter. It also damages synthetic enemies. Overload takes out Shields, can stun synthetics, and at Rank 3 causes enemy weapons to overheat. Seems pretty useful to me. Might not do squat against armor (though Overloard also works on instant killing Pyros and messes with Mechs) so yeah. As a stripping power Overload is probably more usful then Warp, because frankly there aren't many enemies with Barriers. And Tech and Combat classes can easily strip Armor away anyways. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Disruptor Ammo is (close to being) redundant when it comes to shield stripping. Test is yourself if you don't believe me. Pick any weapon and count the number of shots you need to fire to remove shield, with and without Disruptor Ammo; >90% of the time you need the same number of shots > no difference. The chance to overheat weapons only works when shields are removed - it does nothing if enemies have defenses. Adepts have far better CC abilities which always work, last longer and open up combos.

I dunno about you but seriously Inferno Ammo, Inferno Grenade, and Incinerate are all pretty damn effective against non-protected enemies. More so then Shockwave, Pull, or Throw I'd say. And they are at least as effective as Warp against Armor. They also have better radius effects as well.

Cyro Ammo is pretty useless though, except against Husks kind of. Cyro Blast is equally not very worthwhile. I'll agree to that.

Drone is far more useful then Singularity to me. Overload serves a several purposes besides removing Shields and is far more valuable the Warp.

Concussive Shot does good damage, staggers protected enemies, and does great damage against Barriers. It also essentially works the same as a weaker version of Throw.

Inferno Ammo and -Grenades inflict minor damage and don't even make all enemies do the fire dance; Incinerate does decent damage (like Warp does); CS is useless - like Inferno Grenades, it cannot strip defenses completely, making it useless to setup quick combos.

Oh, and using Pull and Throw 4 times instead of one grenade or CS makes all the difference in the world -those powers are junk compared to biotic powers; the only non-biotic power that can rival CC is Neural Shock (which is a bonus power, not class related).

Cryo Ammo is the best ammo power around btw - if you're no using the Widow or Claymore.

Biotics have severe issues when it comes to dealing with heavily protected enemies. Especially if they are sporting Shields. I mean what the hell can Adept do against a YMIR mech? Use a Heavy Weapon is about the only sound solution. 

Adept do what all other classes do - shoot the bastard. What do Soldiers do? Infiltrators? Vanguards? Sentinels? Only Engineers have something to distract YMIR, everyone else is in the same boat as Adepts - no difference whatsoever.

Against the standard canon fodder enemies, sure Biotics are good. Heck in some situations they are noticeably better off then the other classes. Especially on the normal difficulty. I'll admit in some situations the Adept is superior to say the Soldier. But when it comes down to a heavy duty fight with something like a Geth Colossus I'd say the Soldier is superior. Same goes for the YMIR Mechs which are rather prevalent.

Against enemies who are immune to powers (at least their CC effect) everyone is in the same boat. Soldiers start out with more weapons, but if Adepts have their bonus weapon (which they can have >80% of the game) there is no difference. Any weapon does exactly the same amount of damage regardless class.

Singularity will completely immobilize Harbinger and Scions - up to 8 seconds; Adepts can simply walk towards em, shouting back insults to Harby and comfortably switch to whatever weapon they like to kill em.

So I'd say there's some balance issues to be sure.

Weapons yes, powers no - biotics are fine, only Singularity needs a little tweaking to make it more reliable when used against protected enemies. Making it insta-cast would also help alot. Shockwave needs some work too, to make it a bit better on Insanity (it's great below HC).

Given that I don't see why it should be considered so repugnant to say allow Biotic abilities to bypass Shields. Just Shields, not Armor or Barriers. And then to up the ante a bit more for Combat and Tech classes put Shields on the majority of enemies of again. That's all I'm really after here. 

Or maybe just have abilities like Shockwave knockdown enemies with protections similar to the after-effect of Stasis. Might actually allow the Adept class to be something of Crowd control again. Makes sense for Vanguard too really. Or if Singularity actually did some real damage to protected enemies then things might be a different story.

Like I explained at the top of this reply; having the ability to knockdown enemies is insanely powerful. If Throw bypasses shields, one Adept can have up to 4 enemies on the ground permantly > things will be going ME1's way - i.e. a completely broken combat system. Protection doesn't have any effect on biotics powers; you only need to remove protection first, but only if you want to Pull, Throw or Shockwave the target.

The Adept is the best class in terms of gameplay on Insanity, they are very powerful, but - unlike most other classes - need help from squadmates and their weapons. Adepts need to use everything in ME2; all of their powers, squadmates, teamwork, weapons. Compare that to a Soldier, who has no powers (only a buff); gains little to nothing from squadmates; doesn't know teamwork; can only shoot, shoot, and shoot the enemy. They're easier to play, because their gameplay is simple. It takes more work to master the Adept, but when you do, you're not likely going to complain about gimped powers, or balance issues between classes.

Personally, I think it's bad enough BW made the Soldier such a one-dimensional class. I'm not looking forward to have Adepts follow that (boring) path.

[aimlessgun]

Well Borz has some vids. If people arguing with him can post some vids where their methods are more effective, but they still think that the Adept is gimped, I'd like to see it

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...


Like I said before; defenses drop twice as fast compared to health. You have to keep shooting enemies 2 times longer to kill (compared to stripping only). Shooting also has no or very limited (and very unreliable) CC effects.

Sorry,but this is laughable.Inferno ammo crowd control is as reliable and as good as other crowd control powers.Against geth,even squad disruptor sabotage their weapons quite reliable.(with a scimitar/the cererus shotgun should be even better as this)
And there is nothing else to say to squad cyro,right? Double damage like with ragdolled enemies included.

[Bozorgmehr]

tonnactus wrote...

Sorry,but this is laughable.Inferno ammo crowd control is as reliable and as good as other crowd control powers.

Enemies don't do the fire-dance all the time, in fact they ignore it more often than not - Inferno ammo has no panic effect against a lot of enemies (Krogan, Varren, Klixen, husks, and all synthetics) - biotics always take out enemies = much better. Biotic CC effects also last 2-5 times longer.

Against geth,even squad disruptor sabotage their weapons quite reliable.(with a scimitar/the cererus shotgun should be even better as this)

Overheating is very unreliable, see inferno.

And there is nothing else to say to squad cyro,right? Double damage like with ragdolled enemies included

Cryo effect require 1-2 seconds to take effect - during seconds enemies will shoot you. Biotic take them out instantly, expose them, make other powers twice as effective and last longer.

If you really believe those minor CC effects from ammo can compete with biotics, show us. I, like aimlessgun, would like to see someone do the things Adepts can do using ammo instead of powers to CC the lot.

Good luck

[Cancer Puppet]

It would be nice if there were a less obvious system indicating enemy protections. Brightly colored bars break immersion. Maybe making the meters look more like "actual" omni-tool/sensor data would be better that rectangular boxes. Have one style display for biotic barrier strength, another for armor integrity, another indicating shield strength, and when you get down to health there could be something like a heart/vitals monitor.