13 réponses à ce sujet

[GuardianAngel470]

I literally just thought of this so forgive me if I haven't nailed down and explained all the details. We know or have been presented with evidence that the Reapers showed interest in the Krogans (harby lines). We have reason to speculate that the Rachni were in fact a device to elevate the Krogan for ascension. Well the genophage kinda ruined that idea.

Now how does this relate to Cerberus? It displays the possibility that the Reapers are willing to manipulate galactic events to get what and who they want. Now with the Krogan destroyed the Reapers needed a new species. They must have decided that the existing ones didn't suit their needs through the experiments conducted by the collectors per Ascension (hidden meaning somewhere there?)

If humanity did suit their needs, and per Ascension there's no reason to believe they didn't know quite quickly, then the Reapers could know that they needed a way to manipulate events in their favor.

Enter The Illusive Man. From what I understand, as I haven't read Evolution, TIM is implanted/phased/transformed with Reaper tech. I'm assuming that after that he forms Cerberus as part of the Alliance.

Cerberus then goes rogue with the ultimate goal of human advancement in genetics as well as politics and military. These goals would accomplish a few things, all of which would be beneifical to the Reaper's overall plan of harvesting humans (increased biotics, more pure and stronger genes, more numerous colonies and thus higher population count, more reliance on Reaper tech, and so on).

Is it possible that ever since Jack Harper was touched by the Reapers he's been furthering their goals by furthering his own? Is it possible that TIM has always been subtly indoctrinated to do the Reaper's bidding by advancing human interests? I think it would be a beautifully subtle way to get what you want.

Instead of making someone do what you want, make what you want fall in line with what they want.

Obviously Jack Harper's indoctrination is a complete coincidence if what I present here is true but so is Saren's.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 24 mai 2011 - 02:17 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Really? No one had anything to say about my idea? Or was it too long for some people?

[Mohak]

Having your eyes(and who knows what else) transformed by reaper artifact and NOT getting indoctrinated in the process would be quite unlikely. I still think TIM's plans were always getting some proper reaper/collector tech and resurrecting Shepard was just a diversion to others(and the player) from his true intentions.

[GuardianAngel470]

Mohak wrote...

Having your eyes(and who knows what else) transformed by reaper artifact and NOT getting indoctrinated in the process would be quite unlikely. I still think TIM's plans were always getting some proper reaper/collector tech and resurrecting Shepard was just a diversion to others(and the player) from his true intentions.

I agree, it is quite unlikely. For such a visible change you would think that some level of indoctrination would be present. 

[Atomic_Boom22]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Mohak wrote...

Having your eyes(and who knows what else) transformed by reaper artifact and NOT getting indoctrinated in the process would be quite unlikely. I still think TIM's plans were always getting some proper reaper/collector tech and resurrecting Shepard was just a diversion to others(and the player) from his true intentions.

I agree, it is quite unlikely. For such a visible change you would think that some level of indoctrination would be present. 

Let's use the Kenson example. They protected the artifact causeing indoctrination. TIM did the opposite, he realized it needed to be destroyed.

[Ice Cold J]

It's possible... but he seems rather even-keeled for someone who is indoctrinated. Saren wasn't indoctrinated, but he was unstable whenever he was in Sovereign's presence.
Also, if he's indoctrinated, why did he help Shep destroy the Collectors while they were building a new Reaper? Why did they have him rebuild Shepard after they had the Colelctors attack and kill him? Why would he be so adamant about keeping their base if Reaper Ttech is so far beyond it?

[Shanya]

With what tech did they rebuild Shepard? Reapers maybe? He could hope that Shepard could become or would bcome indoctrinated, maybe, I dont know, didnt put much thought about it.
Ilusive Man does send Shep into a trap on Collectors base, maybe with Shep escaping and gaining the info that ruined his plan and he had to adapt. In-game that Harbringer says something in the lines :"I will get you even if I have to kill you". That makes me think that Reapers wants to get their hand on living Shepard rather than on dead on, but if that cant be achieved they would kill him/her.
I dont know, just some wild thinking, I guess.

[GuardianAngel470]

Shanya wrote...

With what tech did they rebuild Shepard? Reapers maybe? He could hope that Shepard could become or would bcome indoctrinated, maybe, I dont know, didnt put much thought about it.
Ilusive Man does send Shep into a trap on Collectors base, maybe with Shep escaping and gaining the info that ruined his plan and he had to adapt. In-game that Harbringer says something in the lines :"I will get you even if I have to kill you". That makes me think that Reapers wants to get their hand on living Shepard rather than on dead on, but if that cant be achieved they would kill him/her.
I dont know, just some wild thinking, I guess.

That's the brilliance of it. As has been noted, the Collector threat was pretty meaningless and actually beating them did nothing (apparently) because of Arrival.

So why not let your subtly indoctrinated minion blow it up or take control of it? If there's reaper tech inside that has the power to indoctrinate then that would further the Reapers' goals while at the same time apparently furthering TIM's. In fact, TIM is the one that tells you to keep the base which is, coincidentally, exactly what the Reapers would have said if this were in fact the case.

TIM thinks he's doing a good thing when in fact he's playing right into the Reapers' hands.

Also, TIM didn't forward you the message from Hackett, that was direct from him so unlike LotSB, TIM has no hands in what happened there, at least not as far as influence goes.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 01 juin 2011 - 09:59 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Ice Cold J wrote...

It's possible... but he seems rather even-keeled for someone who is indoctrinated. Saren wasn't indoctrinated, but he was unstable whenever he was in Sovereign's presence.
Also, if he's indoctrinated, why did he help Shep destroy the Collectors while they were building a new Reaper? Why did they have him rebuild Shepard after they had the Colelctors attack and kill him? Why would he be so adamant about keeping their base if Reaper Ttech is so far beyond it?

Saren was indoctrinated, he just didn't realize it.

And he was always unstable. He was like that before he found Sovereign (per Revelation).

[GuardianAngel470]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Saren was never unstable before being indoctrinated. He was quite the opposite.

Interesting. So blowing up the refinery was in fact the only option. There was no other way to achieve that goal that would have been equally easy.

Come on, a complete disregard for life is not what I'd call stable. Brutality by necessity is acceptable but Saren had other options. He had Anderson, who he framed BTW, who was just as capable of fighting the bad guys. 

He was also a top notch Spectre who could easily fight through hordes of bad guys on his own.

I'm sorry but like I said, a complete disregard for life is not stable. Kinda the opposite actually.

[Ice Cold J]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

It's possible... but he seems rather even-keeled for someone who is indoctrinated. Saren wasn't indoctrinated, but he was unstable whenever he was in Sovereign's presence.
Also, if he's indoctrinated, why did he help Shep destroy the Collectors while they were building a new Reaper? Why did they have him rebuild Shepard after they had the Colelctors attack and kill him? Why would he be so adamant about keeping their base if Reaper Ttech is so far beyond it?

Saren was indoctrinated, he just didn't realize it.

And he was always unstable. He was like that before he found Sovereign (per Revelation).

At first, Saren wasn't indoctrinated. But he was by the end... heck, maybe even before you get to the Citadel (notice how a red light shows up around him when Benezia tells him about the beacon)?

And I highly doubt the Council would instate an unbalanced warrior as a Spectre... Saren was cold and calculating, but he wasn't about above causing some damage when he felt the need to.

He was trying to get something done. So some people die. The objective is fulfilled. Acceptable in Saren's eyes.

Modifié par Ice Cold J, 02 juin 2011 - 03:45 .

[oyukichan]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Is it possible that ever since Jack Harper was touched by the Reapers he's been furthering their goals by furthering his own? Is it possible that TIM has always been subtly indoctrinated to do the Reaper's bidding by advancing human interests? I think it would be a beautifully subtle way to get what you want.

Instead of making someone do what you want, make what you want fall in line with what they want.

This is what the Reapers actually do in Retribution. Grayson tries to fight them most of the time, but, to oversimplify, they are able to manipulate him by making what they want fall in line with what he wants most. And, according to the book, the less you fight the Reapers, the more quickly/easily you are indoctrinated, by which I mean, it is more difficult to actually resist them.