33 réponses à ce sujet

[GuardianAngel470]

I will try to live up to the standard I set for myself last time I did a similar thread.

First up, my opinion. Liara should not be a squadmate in Mass Effect 3, at least not a permenant one. No, this isn't because I dislike Liara and no, this isn't because I don't think she would be useful. My reason is fairly simple.

SHADOW BROKER vs SQUADMATE

Liara is an excellent and brilliant scientist. No matter how she seemed in Mass Effect 1 it is made clear there that she is a genius. Why? She was able to deduce from the scattered ruins of the once great prothean empire the pieces of the puzzle. A puzzle that spelled out the existance of the Reapers and their millenia long cycle of genocide and harvesting.

She was able to find the truth when literally millions of her fellows and foremothers had missed it. Every prothean scientist since the Asari found the Citadel all those millenia ago missed what she found in only fifty years. She was right, and she knew almost as much about the Reaper threat as Shepard did with a first hand vision of it.

Her skill at deduction, at piecing together seemingly unrelated facts, and at creating a complete whole make her the absolute ideal Shadow Broker. No other sapient that Shepard knows could come close to her usefulness in that position.

IN CONCLUSION

That is why I think Liara should not be a squadmate in Mass Effect 3. Similar logic makes me dread Bioware making Tali an Admiral and wish that they had made Garrus a cameo with a useful role. Every character should do what they are good at, not what seems like a good idea or what the fans want.

[Severyx]

Cool story, bro.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Surely Liara's knowledge of the protheans and the reapers will come in handy when planning how to fight them. I imagine she will use her SB connections to help out as well but I can't imagine her wanting to stay in her SB base while Shep goes off to fight the reapers.

[Alamar2078]

I agree with the OP here. I'd rather have a full time Shadow Broker who is GOOD at their job feeding me intel, funds, etc. than having somebody to pal around with for a few missions!!!

As for whether she is a full time squadmate I'd like Shepard to RP the call. Sure Liara may want to be at Shep's side but if she is more valueable as the new Shadow Broker then that's where my Shep will want her to stay [at least until the final push].

[GuardianAngel470]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Surely Liara's knowledge of the protheans and the reapers will come in handy when planning how to fight them. I imagine she will use her SB connections to help out as well but I can't imagine her wanting to stay in her SB base while Shep goes off to fight the reapers.

How can she be more useful on the Normandy than at the command center of all galactic information? She can't study a prothean find from the Normandy while it's in space combat with Reapers over Earth. She can't study a prothean find while waiting for Shepard to get back from his mission on the Salarian homeworld.

Shepard is a front lines fighter. More than that, s/he is now the equivalent of an intergalactic moderator and political leader. S/He will be traveling from planet to planet and sometimes outside of the basic galactic network. 

Besides, Liara can't tell Shepard anything about combat that s/he doesn't already know. The best she can do is tell him of new developments in regards to Reaper weaknesses but if she is on the Normandy with him and fighting at his side, she can't even do that. 

How do you coordinate, secretly, with the SB network from a ship that is often outside of the galactic network grid and away from comm satellites? How do you develop information while fighting husks and Cerberus operatives on the Asari homeworld? 

The best that such a scenario could be done is if Liara were a rooted character like Joker or Kelly that couldn't go on missions. Liara's a genius, but she isn't an AI. She can't be in two places at once; she simply can't be a front line fighter and the SB at the same time.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Liara was recruited in ME1 for her knowledge of the protheans (although she also turned out to be a powerful biotic) and without her Shepard would never have got to Ilos. Honestly I think she would have been useful to have around in ME2 as well, her knowledge of the protheans would have came in handy in regards to the collectors. Liara figured out loads about the protheans, the Reapers and their cycle of destruction with very few clues (as you pointed out), so if Shepard is going to be coming across more clues she would want Liara there to decipher them.

I do see your point, the Shadow Broker could make a useful ally especially if she happens to be someone you can trust. I was expecting Liara to be the quest giver (like TIM) for ME3, using her Shadow Broker information/connections to plan for the Reaper invasion (Shep isn't so good with the planning). But I'm glad she'll be back in the squad, I missed her in ME2. I would be annoyed if the whole SB thing was completely abandoned for no good reason though.

I'm hoping at the start of ME3 Liara will be the Shadow Broker, then when Shep really needs her help she'll leave the base for her mate (Feron?) to mind. Liara could still do some SB work aboard the Normandy, the SB has lots of agents so I don't see how communication could be a problem, but obviously she couldn't co-ordinate everything like she normally would (not that I have any clue what it involves). Or maybe the Shadow Broker base will have to be destroyed for some reason, we know the old Shadow Broker had dealings with the collectors so maybe it will be something to do with that. Obviously I don't know what's going to be happening in ME3, but once the Reapers arrive things will probably get chaotic pretty quick, how many SB agents will continue working? At that point a powerful biotic and reapers expert might be more useful than the Shadow Broker.

Modifié par Sarcastic Tasha, 25 mai 2011 - 08:42 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Liara was recruited in ME1 for her knowledge of the protheans (although she also turned out to be a powerful biotic) and without her Shepard would never have got to Ilos. Honestly I think she would have been useful to have around in ME2 as well, her knowledge of the protheans would have came in handy in regards to the collectors. Liara figured out loads about the protheans, the Reapers and their cycle of destruction with very few clues (as you pointed out), so if Shepard is going to be coming across more clues she would want Liara there to decipher them.

I do see your point, the Shadow Broker could make a useful ally especially if she happens to be someone you can trust. I was expecting Liara to be the quest giver (like TIM) for ME3, using her Shadow Broker information/connections to plan for the Reaper invasion (Shep isn't so good with the planning). But I'm glad she'll be back in the squad, I missed her in ME2. I would be annoyed if the whole SB thing was completely abandoned for no good reason though.

I'm hoping at the start of ME3 Liara will be the Shadow Broker, then when Shep really needs her help she'll leave the base for her mate (Feron?) to mind. Liara could still do some SB work aboard the Normandy, the SB has lots of agents so I don't see how communication could be a problem, but obviously she couldn't co-ordinate everything like she normally would (not that I have any clue what it involves). Or maybe the Shadow Broker base will have to be destroyed for some reason, we know the old Shadow Broker had dealings with the collectors so maybe it will be something to do with that. Obviously I don't know what's going to be happening in ME3, but once the Reapers arrive things will probably get chaotic pretty quick, how many SB agents will continue working? At that point a powerful biotic and reapers expert might be more useful than the Shadow Broker.

So you're saying that because of her expertise it would be better to have her on hand in case Shepard runs into more prothean stuff? What if Shepard installed a quantum entanglement communicator that linked from Liara's SB ship to the Normandy so that he could communicate with her anywhere, at any time?

I think that would be the best solution. I kinda held that one back until I could guage the reaction I would get from the fans.

This would solve both problems well enough I think and Liara certainly has the resources for it. QE communication is expensive, but the SB has almost unlimited resources from what I understand.

[SilentNukee]

Too tired to actually write a paragraph...
So for now, just gonna say, I'm happy she's a squaddie in ME3.
I'm sure Feron or someone will take over and she's still going to be fed information, somehow.

[Alienmorph]

Having her as squadmate doesn't mean automatically to compromise her position as SB. I'm pretty sure that one of the most advanced spaseship in the galaxy like the Normandy is can have an extra terminal with Liara can check the Broker's net.

[What?]

Though I agree with your point of Liara being the perfect candidate for the Shadow Broker position, I just can't see her thumb-twiddling on the side-lines. She has an impetuous character from what I've seen. Girl seemed driven to stop the Reapers; she slogged through mires to retrieve Shepard and smoke-out the Shadow Broker--all to stop the Reapers. That Shadow Broker biz was just a means for her to reach that particular goal. A spring-board. But I never figured Liara to become sedimentary in that position.

With that said, I highly doubt Liara just dumped the Shadow Broker bit and flew off with Shepard. If anything, the refitting the Normandy had in ME3 likely included her own comm-station, so she could maintain her contacts and databanks from aboard. Feron probably stayed on the the Broker's ship to move the larger databanks around. I'd wager he's a primary contact in-game.

Modifié par VictorianTrash, 25 mai 2011 - 09:19 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

So you're saying that because of her expertise it would be better to have her on hand in case Shepard runs into more prothean stuff? What if Shepard installed a quantum entanglement communicator that linked from Liara's SB ship to the Normandy so that he could communicate with her anywhere, at any time?

I think that would be the best solution. I kinda held that one back until I could guage the reaction I would get from the fans.

This would solve both problems well enough I think and Liara certainly has the resources for it. QE communication is expensive, but the SB has almost unlimited resources from what I understand.

Was that what TIM used to communicate with Shep? I'd prefer Liara use it the other way around, communicate with Feron from the Normandy. I don't really know what the SB's work involves so I don't really know if Feron can do the job as well as Liara but how bad can he be? I admit I'm biased, Liara is one of my favourite characters so I want her on the squad. In ME1 I found her to be really useful in a fight, biotics + overload, yes please. So I think Shepard has enough reasons to want her back on the team (a few are selfish reasons) and if Liara wants to come along (which I imagine she would) I'm sure she wouldn't take no for an answer.

[lawp79]

Perhaps the SB base will be temporarily relocated into the Normandy, I have already read in an article (somewhere) that the normandy will have more areas ro access in 3. That way both camps are happy.

[CroGamer002]

I agree with you OP.

[GuardianAngel470]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

So you're saying that because of her expertise it would be better to have her on hand in case Shepard runs into more prothean stuff? What if Shepard installed a quantum entanglement communicator that linked from Liara's SB ship to the Normandy so that he could communicate with her anywhere, at any time?

I think that would be the best solution. I kinda held that one back until I could guage the reaction I would get from the fans.

This would solve both problems well enough I think and Liara certainly has the resources for it. QE communication is expensive, but the SB has almost unlimited resources from what I understand.

Was that what TIM used to communicate with Shep? I'd prefer Liara use it the other way around, communicate with Feron from the Normandy. I don't really know what the SB's work involves so I don't really know if Feron can do the job as well as Liara but how bad can he be? I admit I'm biased, Liara is one of my favourite characters so I want her on the squad. In ME1 I found her to be really useful in a fight, biotics + overload, yes please. So I think Shepard has enough reasons to want her back on the team (a few are selfish reasons) and if Liara wants to come along (which I imagine she would) I'm sure she wouldn't take no for an answer.

I'm going to clear up a few things. As the technology is describe by EDI in the communications room on the Normandy, the QE communicator can only transfer one bit at a time. Period, end of story, miniscule bandwidth. This has to do with how quantum entanglement works and I can explain the basics but I don't really feel like it.

This means that it can function to transfer a very low resolution video picture instantaneuously across distances but would not be ideal or even feasible for full on data transmission like a remote SB terminal would require.

Furthermore, Feron would not be ideal for the position of SB. He was, as I understand it, a contact, a source for information. He does not contain the necessary skills for dissemination that the job requires. He follows orders and makes transactions with his contacts. Yes he has perfect memory but intelligence is much more than simply rote learning and memorization.

Other than Liara there are only two logical people to put in charge of the SB base: EDI and Mordin. EDI because she's an AI that has learned a lot about organic behavior from Joker and Mordin because he has the necessary background, though it would obviously be a short term option.

I understand that people love Liara and that they want her to be on their squad. What if Bioware made her readily available for the player to interact with? Like LotSB but instead of one conversation with her on the SB base you had the full character experience that you would have with any of your squad.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I'm going to clear up a few things. As the technology is describe by EDI in the communications room on the Normandy, the QE communicator can only transfer one bit at a time. Period, end of story, miniscule bandwidth. This has to do with how quantum entanglement works and I can explain the basics but I don't really feel like it.

This means that it can function to transfer a very low resolution video picture instantaneuously across distances but would not be ideal or even feasible for full on data transmission like a remote SB terminal would require.

Furthermore, Feron would not be ideal for the position of SB. He was, as I understand it, a contact, a source for information. He does not contain the necessary skills for dissemination that the job requires. He follows orders and makes transactions with his contacts. Yes he has perfect memory but intelligence is much more than simply rote learning and memorization.

Other than Liara there are only two logical people to put in charge of the SB base: EDI and Mordin. EDI because she's an AI that has learned a lot about organic behavior from Joker and Mordin because he has the necessary background, though it would obviously be a short term option.

I understand that people love Liara and that they want her to be on their squad. What if Bioware made her readily available for the player to interact with? Like LotSB but instead of one conversation with her on the SB base you had the full character experience that you would have with any of your squad.

If Liara is a full squadmate in ME3 she would have to leave most of the SB work to someone so we don't really have to worry about sending all the info to the Normandy. I also expect that Liara will want to run things differently than the last SB, concentrate on the Reaper threat. Do we know how much time is going to be between ME2 and ME3? She might have enough time to prepare everything so that Feron can run things and by that point he should have experience (Liara has to sleep so he must be helping).

[Odoyle]

What good is a clandestine information network when the entire galaxy is under assault by the Repears? What useful information can be gleaned from keeping tabs on the STG, the Assari Commandos or the Turian Fleet when all of those race's homeworlds are under attack?

Not to mention, the location of the SB base may be compromised if TIM is indeed indoctrinated as many believe he may be in ME3.

Time to forget the espionage, put the team back together, rally ALL the races of the galaxy, and find a way to kick some reaper ass.

[jamesp81]

Normandy has an advanced AI. I don't think it'd be too difficult for her to to take the whole Shadow Broker thing on the road with EDI's help. Quantum entaglement communicator back to the base on Hagalaz will allow her to access her data, with Feron there to mind the store. That let's her get out and shoot some stuff on occasion.

[Someone With Mass]

She can always, as many other people have probably already said, set up shop on the Normandy, or let Feron and that funny little drone take control.

Or maybe the ship is destroyed, I don't know. As long as I don't have to deal with another random asari squadmate I know virtually nothing about, I'm happy.

[Nozybidaj]

So being a reclusive prothean archeologist somehow qualifies one to lead a secret galactic underbelly information trading organization? The whole idea of making Liara the SB in the first place was rather, at best, a stretch and in practice retarded.

I'm fine if they just forget the whole thing.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 25 mai 2011 - 06:43 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Odoyle wrote...

What good is a clandestine information network when the entire galaxy is under assault by the Repears? What useful information can be gleaned from keeping tabs on the STG, the Assari Commandos or the Turian Fleet when all of those race's homeworlds are under attack?

Not to mention, the location of the SB base may be compromised if TIM is indeed indoctrinated as many believe he may be in ME3.

Time to forget the espionage, put the team back together, rally ALL the races of the galaxy, and find a way to kick some reaper ass.

To provide Shepard with the where, how, and when of uniting the Galaxy. S/he will have to convince each and every race to fight by his side against he Reapers. Who better to direct him than someone with contacts within every major government in the entire galaxy? Who better to provide details on various factions than someone with intimate knowledge and understanding of each civilization?

Contrary to popular belief, wartime is exactly when a clandestine service is most needed.

You think the Council is going to tell you where to go, who to talk to, and when to be there? You think they will cooperate with a rogue spectre/Cerberus operative/disgraced officer? 

What about the Alliance? Do they have the network and the influence to realistically help you? Do you think they have the political connections? Half the galaxy thinks that Humans are powerhungry maniacs, especially if you killed the council.

Where is your intel going to come from? Who's going to tell you when a planet is under seige? Who's going to tell you where the Reapers are? Who's intel are you going to base your actions on?

To use a term that I learned after the recent assasination of Osama bin Laden, who is going to provide Shepard with actionable intelligence?

[GuardianAngel470]

Nozybidaj wrote...

So being a reclusive prothean archeologist somehow qualifies one to lead a secret galactic underbelly information trading organization? The whole idea of making Liara the SB in the first place was rather, at best, a stretch and in practice retarded.

I'm fine if they just forget the whole thing.

No, being a reclusive prothean archealogist that figured out, from scattered pieces of data across dozens of dig sites over 50 years, that the Protheans were killed by an unnamed force and that the cycle has repeated hundreds of times does.

It isn't the occupation; its the accomplishment. It isn't the fact that she knows stuff about the protheans; its how she pieced together her knowledge to form a complex, revolutionary, and correct theory.

[lolwut666]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

So being a reclusive prothean archeologist somehow qualifies one to lead a secret galactic underbelly information trading organization? The whole idea of making Liara the SB in the first place was rather, at best, a stretch and in practice retarded.

I'm fine if they just forget the whole thing.

No, being a reclusive prothean archealogist that figured out, from scattered pieces of data across dozens of dig sites over 50 years, that the Protheans were killed by an unnamed force and that the cycle has repeated hundreds of times does.

It isn't the occupation; its the accomplishment. It isn't the fact that she knows stuff about the protheans; its how she pieced together her knowledge to form a complex, revolutionary, and correct theory.

In that it's retarded, I agree.

[Nozybidaj]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

So being a reclusive prothean archeologist somehow qualifies one to lead a secret galactic underbelly information trading organization? The whole idea of making Liara the SB in the first place was rather, at best, a stretch and in practice retarded.

I'm fine if they just forget the whole thing.

No, being a reclusive prothean archealogist that figured out, from scattered pieces of data across dozens of dig sites over 50 years, that the Protheans were killed by an unnamed force and that the cycle has repeated hundreds of times does.

It isn't the occupation; its the accomplishment. It isn't the fact that she knows stuff about the protheans; its how she pieced together her knowledge to form a complex, revolutionary, and correct theory.

So your average college professor is well suited to being the Kingpin?  I suppose that is one way to view things.  I'd certainly disagree, but there ya have it.......