673 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

You guys don't like DAII's combat. I get it. I do *shrug*

But the thing is, it's *not* mindless. Objectively so. Take a look at the strat board. It's incredible what people pull out of the combat.

[Merced652]

Marionetten wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Probably should've known you were out to blatantly troll with your first post on this particular subject.

You know, I actually don't think that's trolling. That's the scary part.

Indeed. I'm all about optimizing and min/maxing, which is why i didn't play TW2 on easy. I mean i actually felt like needing to use alchemy, signs, and intelligence to win battles. Apparently it was mindless, whereas loading up on str and con to meet gear reqs and then using cleave, scythe and whirlwind on a setting other than easy is strategic. 

[Master Shiori]

Persephone wrote...

My unimportant two cents:

What Bioware should take a look at (And I bet they are looking at the competition):

+ Enviroments. TW2 offers the most alive, real and responsive world I have ever encountered in an RPG AND Adventure. DAII had some of it (Guards greeting Aveline, sailors chatting up Izzy, Hawke being greeted differently depending on her status....) but it was too little IMHO. Look at the weather effects, NPCs having schedules etc.

+ Decisions & consequences. In DAO I was miffed by the "Change people/communities 180 degrees with a click" routine. DAII offered realism ala companions doing whatever they damn well please (If Hawke tries to stop them, the relationship changes, their agenda does not) and the hand of fate nullifying TOO many decisions. TW2 offered a nearly perfect balance between personal decisions (Character development) as well as overarching consequences that may seem little at first but will hit you sooner or later. (With some great surprises!) What they did not have were decisions affecting relationships as in DAO or moreso DAII. In TW1 there was a rivalry between Shani & Triss. In TW2 Triss will be your lover, no matter what you import. You cannot alienate Dandelion or Zoltan. That's where CDPR could learn from Bioware in return.

+ Attention to detail. Bioware need not learn this, they are capable of it as seen in the past. Development time is the key. TW2 had four years. DAII had 18 months. How would TW2 have turned out under such pressure?

What I do not want from TW2:

- Overused character models. There is like one model for sorceresses, 1-2 for hookers, 1-2 for dwarves (Where are the female dwarves btw?).....and the elves nearly all look identical. This is TW2's "copy & paste enviroments" error. No, a few freckles & a different hairdo isn't going to make that go away.

- Lacklustre facial animations and sometimes subpar VO acting. (Triss being the main offender)

- Forcing a romance on me....if I chose Shani, I do not want Triss in my bed. Esp. not a Triss who looks and acts like a lovestruck teenager.

I absolutely adore TW2. It's an amazing game with a few hiccups. I hope my ideas above won't be seen as overly critical.

Pretty much this.

The main issue wih DA2 was the lack of time to develop the game properly. While there are things that CDProjekt does better in their games, they have their own shortcomings.

That said I honestly doubt Bioware will resort to copying elements from TW2. Their devs are talented enough to find their own solutions to the problems at hand, as they did in the past.

[hoorayforicecream]

Marionetten wrote...

Because it's hard and comes with a bit of a learning curve?

No. It's because it's targeting system is finicky, it makes basic mechanics that should have been in from the get-go require unlocking later (parry and sword hitting multiple targets), and worst of all, is unresponsive.

When I press a button, I expect Geralt to do something. If I tell him to unsheath his sword, I expect him to unsheath his sword. When I tell him to dodge, I expect him to dodge. When I tell him to attack, I expect him to attack. When I play TW2, when I am in combat I don't feel like I am giving Geralt commands. I feel like I am asking him to please do something to not die, and most of the time he listens. Sometimes, however, he's just distracted, or annoyed or whatever, and when I ask him "Please get out of the way and not die" or "Please use the sign" or "Please hit that near-death guy over there and not the fully armored, high health guy far far away", he just shrugs and says "Nah, I'll just do my own thing instead". 

A learning curve is something like "Ok, I want to use these attacks against this monster type, and those attacks against those monster types". My problem isn't that I didn't recognize that monsters get killed by silver swords and humans die to steel swords. That's cool. I get it. A learning curve should not be "I press the button and hope he does what I told him to do".

By the same token Demon's Souls combat sucks. By the same token Ninja Gaiden's combat sucks. And don't use Penny Arcade to get your half-baked point across when they don't even agree with it.  Not once does Tycho suggest that the combat is bad in his piece as much as frustrating and complex.

This is not the case. Nowhere when I played Demons' Souls did I worry that when I pressed a button, I did not get a response. When I press a button in Ninja Gaiden, I get a response.

And just FYI... frustrating and complex? I've never seen those two words used together to describe something good.

[Marionetten]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

But the thing is, it's *not* mindless. Objectively so. Take a look at the strat board. It's incredible what people pull out of the combat.

It's exceedingly shallow for an RPG. Objectively so. The fact that it bases itself on simplistic math formulas ( The Witcher 2 does too, check the combat log ) doesn't make up for the utter lack of challenge or the mediocre encounter design. It's also more simplistic than The Witcher 2 when it comes character building as it limits itself to the archaic class system with three classes instead of freeform character development based around three distinctive progression paths.

[Merced652]

Only issue i ever had with reactivity was on sign casting, and that was animation delay. And you know what? I'll take that everyday of the week over button --> awesome.

[mesmerizedish]

@Alistairlover: I never said you were bashing DAII's combat.

[Persephone]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

Because it's hard and comes with a bit of a learning curve?

No. It's because it's targeting system is finicky, it makes basic mechanics that should have been in from the get-go require unlocking later (parry and sword hitting multiple targets), and worst of all, is unresponsive.

When I press a button, I expect Geralt to do something. If I tell him to unsheath his sword, I expect him to unsheath his sword. When I tell him to dodge, I expect him to dodge. When I tell him to attack, I expect him to attack. When I play TW2, when I am in combat I don't feel like I am giving Geralt commands. I feel like I am asking him to please do something to not die, and most of the time he listens. Sometimes, however, he's just distracted, or annoyed or whatever, and when I ask him "Please get out of the way and not die" or "Please use the sign" or "Please hit that near-death guy over there and not the fully armored, high health guy far far away", he just shrugs and says "Nah, I'll just do my own thing instead". 

A learning curve is something like "Ok, I want to use these attacks against this monster type, and those attacks against those monster types". My problem isn't that I didn't recognize that monsters get killed by silver swords and humans die to steel swords. That's cool. I get it. A learning curve should not be "I press the button and hope he does what I told him to do".

This I definitely agree with. Sometimes I had to click like 5 times for Geralt to unsheathe his bloody sword while the enemies already landed 3-4 attacks.

[Marionetten]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

No. It's because it's targeting system is finicky, it makes basic mechanics that should have been in from the get-go require unlocking later (parry and sword hitting multiple targets), and worst of all, is unresponsive.

I had no issues with the targeting system. For the record, you can lock onto targets with the single press of a button. And why should those skills be unlocked from the get-go? They're part of CHARACTER PROGRESSION. You don't get to be awesome from the get-go in this game. It's something you have to actively work towards and I for one like it that way. It reminds me of Baldur's Gate.

hoorayforicecream wrote...

When I press a button...

... something awesome has to happen? 

Sorry, had to.

hoorayforicecream wrote...

A learning curve is something like "Ok, I want to use these attacks against this monster type, and those attacks against those monster types". My problem isn't that I didn't recognize that monsters get killed by silver swords and humans die to steel swords. That's cool. I get it. A learning curve should not be "I press the button and hope he does what I told him to do".

That is the learning curve. I had no issues whatsoever with controlling Geralt. There are countless of videos on youtube of people playing the game with no issues controlling Geralt. Did you perhaps try playing the game with a controller? Also, Geralt will NEVER do anything on his own outside of cutscenes. He's completely reliant on your input.

hoorayforicecream wrote...

And just FYI... frustrating and complex? I've never seen those two words used together to describe something good.

Ah, right. Because good things all have to be accessible and shallow. I totally forgot about that.

Modifié par Marionetten, 26 mai 2011 - 06:03 .

[Persephone]

Merced652 wrote...

Only issue i ever had with reactivity was on sign casting, and that was animation delay. And you know what? I'll take that everyday of the week over button --> awesome.

Good for you if that's the only issue you had. I definitely encountered the issues described in the longer post above.

And I don't like either.

But the "awesome button" (That joke is as stale as a month old opened can of beer) at least did what it was told without acting like a finicky prima donna.

[KnightofPhoenix]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Can I add "horrendous gameplay" to Persephone's "do not want" list? Obscene controls and mindless hack-and-slash combat is ew.

Try doing that on hard in the very first fight and see what happens to you.

@ Persephone.
I never had problems with unresponsive controls, yet many seemingly do. I wonder why.
Maybe the version of the game?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 mai 2011 - 06:00 .

[Persephone]

Marionetten wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

And just FYI... frustrating and complex? I've never seen those two words used together to describe something good.

Ah, right. Because good things all have to be accessible and shallow. I totally forgot about that.

Yes. That MUST be the case. YEESH, why all this aggression? 

[mousestalker]

No offense, but I think you all are ignoring the elephant in the room. Neither game is as good it could possibly be as they both lack the same critical element.

Ponies.

Specifically magical pastel ponies. Any game that doesn't have ponies doesn't deserve more than eight out of ten stars. And that's a fact.

[KnightofPhoenix]

mousestalker wrote...

No offense, but I think you all are ignoring the elephant in the room. Neither game is as good it could possibly be as they both lack the same critical element.

Ponies.

Specifically magical pastel ponies. Any game that doesn't have ponies doesn't deserve more than eight out of ten stars. And that's a fact.

The Witcher 2 has the Kingdom of Kaedwen, whom people refer to as "The Unicorn".
That's close enough.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 26 mai 2011 - 06:04 .

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Can I add "horrendous gameplay" to Persephone's "do not want" list? Obscene controls and mindless hack-and-slash combat is ew.

Try doing that on hard in the very first fight and see what happens to you.

@ Persephone.
I never had problems with unresponsive controls, yet many seemingly do. I wonder why.
Maybe the version of the game?

Maybe. Or it IS a delay, based on lowly specs. My lappy isn't the most up to date model. But I encountered no other problems. Once the sword was out, it worked. :happy:

[Marionetten]

Persephone wrote...

Yes. That MUST be the case. YEESH, why all this aggression? 

I'm not seeing the aggression. All I'm seeing is sarcasm. Then again, this is the Internet.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
Maybe. Or it IS a delay, based on lowly specs. My lappy isn't the most up to date model. But I encountered no other problems. Once the sword was out, it worked. :happy:

Yea, I have very high specs. Probably why.
But they're working on it apparently.

[neppakyo]

mousestalker wrote...

No offense, but I think you all are ignoring the elephant in the room. Neither game is as good it could possibly be as they both lack the same critical element.

Ponies.

Specifically magical pastel ponies. Any game that doesn't have ponies doesn't deserve more than eight out of ten stars. And that's a fact.

TW2 has unicorns.

[Persephone]

Marionetten wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Yes. That MUST be the case. YEESH, why all this aggression? 

I'm not seeing the aggression. All I'm seeing is sarcasm. Then again, this is the Internet.

Call it what you will, it's definitely not helping.